Le'Veon Bell for Rob Gronkowski:

[Mojouw]

Isaac Redman was about the most ordinary back ever. He was like the Wonder Bread of running backs. Meh.

He also had to break a ton of tackles because he had no burst.

[Cyphon25]

Isaac Redman was about the most ordinary back ever. He was like the Wonder Bread of running backs. Meh.

He also had to break a ton of tackles because he had no burst.

Nah, he was a really good back minus not having speed. Like I said, people just tend to forget because of our crappy line and crappy coaching decisions with our RB's. If you could go back and find when we drafted Bell people were really excited because Bell could catch out of the backfield but so could Redman. So even while it was happening people were ignoring what Redman could do.

The being slow thing hurt him but he was still capable of 100 yard games when the line actually did a decent job.

[fansince'76]

For my part I certainly remember how good Bell is and I think he is truthfully the number 1 RB in the NFL. But there has to be serious consideration to what you can do with the amount of money they are going to have to pay Bell to keep him. Let's put the thread topic aside for a second.

Do you take Williams and 1000 all-purpose yards and a good/great corner or do you take Bell with 2200 all-purpose yards and our current corners? Beyond that consider the other players who are going to be getting paid here soon. Ben has a huge contract and if you give on to Bell and then have to pay AB you wrap up a good portion of your money in 3 players. Normally I wouldn't mind but they are going to eventually have to let some good players walk and they haven't been as good as replenishing the talent lately.

Well, on a positive note, we do have Bell under his rookie deal for one more season. I'd imagine they'll bite the bullet and hang the franchise tag on him after that, depending how he does in 2016, so that buys us two more years of his services, anyway.

As someone else mentioned in another thread, I want the team to go all in over the next 2-3 years to win another Super Bowl and I think Bell as the featured RB gives us the best chance of doing that. I also think this team is very close already and I have a feeling Ben will be living on borrowed time after that point anyway.

The window will slam shut the moment Ben either retires or otherwise becomes ineffective, regardless of any other moves the team makes, IMO.

[tube517]

Isaac Redman was about the most ordinary back ever. He was like the Wonder Bread of running backs. Meh.

He also had to break a ton of tackles because he had no suddeness or glide.

Fixed.

I liked Redman but he's no Le'Veon Bell or even DeAngelo Williams at age 32. I think he could have gone to Arizona and been a backup if not for his career ending injury.

[steelreserve]

Well, on a positive note, we do have Bell under his rookie deal for one more season. I'd imagine they'll bite the bullet and hang the franchise tag on him after that, depending how he does in 2016, so that buys us two more years of his services, anyway.

As someone else mentioned in another thread, I want the team to go all in over the next 2-3 years to win another Super Bowl and I think Bell as the featured RB gives us the best chance of doing that. I also think this team is very close already and I have a feeling Ben will be living on borrowed time after that point anyway.

The window will slam shut the moment Ben either retires or otherwise becomes ineffective, regardless of any other moves the team makes, IMO.

Hey, don't forget the part where after Ben is done, we'll have one season of brief hope where a random castoff QB comes in and does well, gets us to maybe the second round of the playoffs, then the next season he turns into Derek Anderson and that's when we REALLY suck for a couple years. I just hope that guy comes cheap and if we re-sign him after the first year, it's on a deal more like $8M a year for two years than $120M for six years.

[Cyphon25]

Well, on a positive note, we do have Bell under his rookie deal for one more season. I'd imagine they'll bite the bullet and hang the franchise tag on him after that, depending how he does in 2016, so that buys us two more years of his services, anyway.

As someone else mentioned in another thread, I want the team to go all in over the next 2-3 years to win another Super Bowl and I think Bell as the featured RB gives us the best chance of doing that. I also think this team is very close already and I have a feeling Ben will be living on borrowed time after that point anyway.

The window will slam shut the moment Ben either retires or otherwise becomes ineffective, regardless of any other moves the team makes, IMO.

I just don't see it. We were likely SB bound this year with D'Angelo. What killed us vs the Broncos was missing him and AB as well as our defense on that last drive. So why spend the money on Bell?

It isn't so much that Bell isn't worth the money but moreso that he is more of a bonus weapon than an actual necessity for success. Other pieces would be more important to our cause.

[lipps83]

Well, on a positive note, we do have Bell under his rookie deal for one more season. I'd imagine they'll bite the bullet and hang the franchise tag on him after that, depending how he does in 2016, so that buys us two more years of his services, anyway.

As someone else mentioned in another thread, I want the team to go all in over the next 2-3 years to win another Super Bowl and I think Bell as the featured RB gives us the best chance of doing that. I also think this team is very close already and I have a feeling Ben will be living on borrowed time after that point anyway.

The window will slam shut the moment Ben either retires or otherwise becomes ineffective, regardless of any other moves the team makes, IMO.

Do they go all in and keep Bell, or do they go all in and improve the defense?

What helps more to win a championship? An unnecessary halfback on an already elite offense, or a defense?

We already have had the former for 3 years, and haven't won a championship since the latter was a contender.

[fansince'76]

I just don't see it. We were likely SB bound this year with D'Angelo. What killed us vs the Broncos was missing him and AB as well as our defense on that last drive. So why spend the money on Bell?

It isn't so much that Bell isn't worth the money but moreso that he is more of a bonus weapon than an actual necessity for success. Other pieces would be more important to our cause.

Do they go all in and keep Bell, or do they go all in and improve the defense?

What helps more to win a championship? An unnecessary halfback on an already elite offense, or a defense?

We already have had the former for 3 years, and haven't won a championship since the latter was a contender.

At the most important times, we haven't had Bell at our disposal.

IMO, the reason we needed to lean on the defense so heavily during the last successful Super Bowl run in '08 is because the OL was HISTORICALLY bad. And the OL STILL almost lost us that game (looking at you, Hartwig).

Sure, Denver just won one on their defense thanks largely to the stars aligning just right and being able to face two beat up teams at home in the playoffs and the fact that Cam Newton couldn't rise to the occasion in the Super Bowl.

My argument is that we make this offense so insanely good that we can win it all even with an average defense (health is a key component as well).

As it was, the defense took a step forward last year anyway despite the secondary, just based on the sack numbers and turnovers created because Butler dropped that passive 10-yard cushion shit for the most part and stayed aggressive and actually changed things up when the gameplan obviously wasn't working (see 2nd half of 1st Denver game).

And again, we were that close this year to making a run which was derailed more by injuries than anything else. And once more, we have Bell for one more year under his rookie deal. If he comes back 100% and we can actually stay healthy in 2016, watch out.

[lipps83]

I get what you are saying. I just don't know if I could sacrifice improving the defense for the cost of Bell, even though Bell is a great back.

Hopefully next year he will be healthy for the full season, and this off season they address the problems of the defense the best they can. I just hope the guys on the defensive side show enough to make the Bell decision easier when that time comes.

This doesn't even go into addressing the fact that this team now needs a tight end to replace Miller.

hahah, maybe put Bell at TE for the upcoming season. I bet he could do it, but too small.

[fansince'76]

I get what you are saying. I just don't know if I could sacrifice improving the defense for the cost of Bell, even though Bell is a great back.

Hopefully next year he will be healthy for the full season, and this off season they address the problems of the defense the best they can. I just hope the guys on the defensive side show enough to make the Bell decision easier when that time comes.

This doesn't even go into addressing the fact that this team now needs a tight end to replace Miller.

hahah, maybe put Bell at TE for the upcoming season. I bet he could do it, but too small.

I also get what you're saying. Watching schlubs like Manziel light up our secondary sucks!

As far as Miller goes, he seems to have been winding down for the last couple of years. Losing his leadership is going to hurt more than his production at this point, IMO.

[Butch]

IMHO Williams seemed to be losing his efficiency later in the season, and I don't think we see that with a healthy Bell.

Also on the original topic I would add that there is also another aspect to consider and that is chemistry and I just don't see Gronk fitting in with our current team.

I also don't like him being a cheatriot and would never believe his heart would ever be with the Steelers...once bit and twice shy.

So for all the reasons already brought up and for the above reason I would say no to that trade.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Isaac Redman was about the most ordinary back ever. He was like the Wonder Bread of running backs. Meh.

He also had to break a ton of tackles because he had no burst.

he was a great back up RB who also a pretty decent starter until he got a stinger his final year in the league what are you talking about? He was one of the best, if not THE best short yardage back in the league for a short time, like a year or two as well.

[zulater]

Bell is 60% done.
Two blown knees ? Whatever happens to him , he'll be a shadow of his former self. He ain't no AP.
I say trade him off , Gronk or not. Williams and company filled the Bell gap just fine.

I got a feeling you'll be eating these words next season I don't even think there's a concern that either of his prior injuries will bother him going forward. If you were making the calls for the Steelers Gregg Lloyd would have never started a game. Further by your logic or lack thereof Rod Woodson's last half dozen seasons in the league as an All Pro safety never happen.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Bell is 60% done.
Two blown knees ? Whatever happens to him , he'll be a shadow of his former self. He ain't no AP.
I say trade him off , Gronk or not. Williams and company filled the Bell gap just fine.

[dduc996]

I got a feeling you'll be eating these words next season I don't even think there's a concern that either of his prior injuries will bother him going forward. If you were making the calls for the Steelers Gregg Lloyd would have never started a game. Further by your logic or lack thereof Rod Woodson's last half dozen seasons in the league as an All Pro safety never happen.

I hope I'm eating those words believe me.

To my recollection Rod Woodson was never the same either. He may have continued in the league but was never as good as he was as a Steeler.

The Rooney's tend to do that - if your preformence dwindles they'll pay you less to stay , or give you an option to leave.

The old 90's quote..."they flood the market with probowlers".

[BigNastyDefense]

I wouldn't make the trade.

The Patriots uncover TE's that are damn good easy. Hell, if Hernandez wasn't a thug, he would probably be the best TE in the league right now. Neither of them were first round picks either.

Reason number one why I wouldn't make the trade - we had Heath Miller for 11 years and never utilized him like the Patriots utilize Gronkowski. Why trade a player we do utilize for one we probably wouldn't use the way he's currently being used in New England?

Reason number two - you can utilize Bell as a runner and a pass catcher. He's also a hell of a blocker in run protection. You're not handing the ball off to Gronkowski. There's no guarantee you're going to get the same run game production from another RB, including Williams, that you'd get from Bell alone. Williams was released by the Panthers because he couldn't handle a full load 16 game season. There's no guarantee the other two running backs we had can actually produce throughout a 16 game season.

While many people look at RB's as easy to replace, it's not that easy when you have one who's actually dynamic.

Willie Parker was good, but so many Steelers fans hated him because he would hit the long one, but then go 2-1-3-2-5-3-1 yards on his next bunch of carries.

Mendenhall wasn't the worst RB in Steelers history (wish he could have hung on to the ball though), but he's pretty well hated.

Truth is, other then 2 freak knee injuries, Bell has been realatively healthy for his career. And if we actually had him in the playoffs the past two years, there's a chance we have 8 Lombardi Trophies in Pittsburgh right now (at least seven, I think we would have won it all last year if we had Bell).

[dduc996]

And knee injuries for a running back can be career ending - with one exception. (AP)

[hawaiiansteeler]

And knee injuries for a running back can be career ending - with one exception. (AP)

and would you agree that knee injuries can vary in severity?

[dduc996]

Yes....but nontheless a vidal part for the "runner" like the hand and arm are for the quarterback.
I hope Bell comes back bigger and better then even Adrian Peterson , the cards just seem to be stacked against him. At any position the health of the knee is critical for a long career in this sport.

[zulater]

Yes....but nontheless a vidal part for the "runner" like the hand and arm are for the quarterback.
I hope Bell comes back bigger and better then even Adrian Peterson , the cards just seem to be stacked against him. At any position the health of the knee is critical for a long career in this sport.

Bell's injury was even close to the severity of AP's.

And by the way both Jamal Charles and Frank Gore successfully rehabbed from more serious knee injuries than what Bell's is. And the knee is just as important for a cb as a rb no? Darrelle Revis also came back from a more serious injury than Bell and has sustained an exceptional level of play.

[86WARD]

Nah, he was a really good back minus not having speed. Like I said, people just tend to forget because of our crappy line and crappy coaching decisions with our RB's. If you could go back and find when we drafted Bell people were really excited because Bell could catch out of the backfield but so could Redman. So even while it was happening people were ignoring what Redman could do.

The being slow thing hurt him but he was still capable of 100 yard games when the line actually did a decent job.

Isaac Redman was terrible. He was no where near really good. Redman was released basically because of Dwyer and Felix Jones out performing him...far from good.

[Cyphon25]

Isaac Redman was terrible. He was no where near really good. Redman was released basically because of Dwyer and Felix Jones out performing him...far from good.

You must be thinking of a different player. Redman was a really good RB. He was stuck in a crap rotation behind a bad offensive line. If you can find them just go check the numbers. He was the number 1 pass blocking RB in the NFL I believe in 2011 or 2012 and was number 1 or 2 in tackle breaking efficiency both because he was a beast and because our line couldn't block. He was also a good/great pass catcher out of the backfield.

There were only 4 games ever where the Steelers basically gave him the full load (I am talking 15 or more carries) and only one of the 4 didn't go well where he only gained 49 yards. The other 3 games were for 92 yards and a TD, 121 yards and 146 yards and a TD. The trend was when they actually let him handle the load that he was a consistent 100 yard back which at the minimum is a good NFL starter if you don't want to call him really good or great.

But if you think he was terrible you clearly don't understand the RB position very well or just don't remember what Redman was capable of.

You can still find some of his moments on NFL.com but IMO this is the best example of why he was under-appreciated. A fantastic hands catch and run after on a hot read.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-h...elers-the-lead

[86WARD]

You must be thinking of a different player. Redman was a really good RB. He was stuck in a crap rotation behind a bad offensive line. If you can find them just go check the numbers. He was the number 1 pass blocking RB in the NFL I believe in 2011 or 2012 and was number 1 or 2 in tackle breaking efficiency both because he was a beast and because our line couldn't block. He was also a good/great pass catcher out of the backfield.

There were only 4 games ever where the Steelers basically gave him the full load (I am talking 15 or more carries) and only one of the 4 didn't go well where he only gained 49 yards. The other 3 games were for 92 yards and a TD, 121 yards and 146 yards and a TD. The trend was when they actually let him handle the load that he was a consistent 100 yard back which at the minimum is a good NFL starter if you don't want to call him really good or great.

But if you think he was terrible you clearly don't understand the RB position very well or just don't remember what Redman was capable of.

You can still find some of his moments on NFL.com but IMO this is the best example of why he was under-appreciated. A fantastic hands catch and run after on a hot read.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-h...elers-the-lead

I know the RB position very well thanks and I remember what Redman was. He was a camp sensation that eventually fizzled out and was replaced by Jonathan Dwyer and Felix Jones...while they kept the seat warm as Le'Veon developed. I remember he was a guy who would fumble atleast 2-3 times a season, I guy who averaged less than 50 yards a game in a season. If you want to say he was an average or decent back, I'd go with that...to say he was really good? No. He wasn't really good. He was on par with Dwyer...who also wasn't really good. To say he was superior in pass protection...he wasn't any better than Dwyer in 2013 as they both graded out exactly the same. Dwyer and Redman were virtually the same player with the exception of Redman being a tad bit better in the pass game...not pass protection. Neither was really good.

[fansince'76]

I wouldn't say Redman was terrible, I would say he was very, very average. However, he had a lot of heart and made the most of his limited physical gifts. If only Mendenhall could have had his motor...

[Cyphon25]

I know the RB position very well thanks and I remember what Redman was. He was a camp sensation that eventually fizzled out and was replaced by Jonathan Dwyer and Felix Jones...while they kept the seat warm as Le'Veon developed.

He was never replaced by Dwyer. They were both basically given split roles in the crappy rotation I keep talking about.

I remember he was a guy who would fumble atleast 2-3 times a season, I guy who averaged less than 50 yards a game in a season.

I will grant you fumbling was an issue he had but sure, he averaged less than 50 yards because he never got carries. As I pointed out already (maybe you missed it), when he was given the full load he had 3 100 yard games out of 4. Hardly a 50 yard average.

To say he was superior in pass protection...he wasn't any better than Dwyer in 2013 as they both graded out exactly the same. Dwyer and Redman were virtually the same player with the exception of Redman being a tad bit better in the pass game...not pass protection. Neither was really good.

He was superior in pass protection, if only by a little. He was 1 and Dwyer was 2. But it isn't about comparing them, he was number 1 in the entire NFL. And again, was also number 1 or 2 in tackle breaking efficiency.

If you gave Redman the line/team we have now he would be a 1000 yard rusher and probably a 1500-2000 yard all-purpose back. The main concern would be the fumbling which you mentioned. That is one thing I love about Bell. He never coughs the ball up.

[fansince'76]

Well, the OL WAS a shitshow and there's no denying it, but it's hard to speculate how much more productive Redman may have been had we hired Munchak a couple of years earlier.

[Cyphon25]

Well, the OL WAS a shitshow and there's no denying it, but it's hard to speculate how much more productive Redman may have been had we hired Munchak a couple of years earlier.

Very true. You never know how injuries will play a role and how the system will work with the back. I will say this, Bells patience and vision seem perfect for our system and I know he is great at that. I don't see Redman as that type of runner. I picture Redman being more of a Bettis for us.

Anyway, he isn't the topic and I have gotten way into discussing him lol.

[ThorndikeFFA]

No, thank you.

If we're going to talk about trading guys who've been unlucky and missed time due to injury, I would personally start that conversation with Pouncey. One more injury for that dude and I would trade him for a warm six pack of IC Light.

[SteelerFanInStl]

I wouldn't say Redman was terrible, I would say he was very, very average. However, he had a lot of heart and made the most of his limited physical gifts. If only Mendenhall could have had his motor...

Or his desire. Mendy never had the desire to be a great NFL RB.

[fansince'76]

Or his desire. Mendy never had the desire to be a great NFL RB.

Nope. He was fond of saying stupid shit on Twitter, though...