The biggest challenge ahead for Todd Haley

[zulater]

In many ways Todd Haley is the envy of every other OC in the NFL. The known returning talent he has going into next season is off the charts. Obviously there's some questions concerning how free agency will effect the o-line, and if Heath Miller's performance in the divisional playoff game is indication of his decline? ( I think he'll rebound and give us one more solid year and I am anxious to see Jesse James with a year under his belt) But regardless, the pro's so outweigh the cons. You got Pouncey, one of the best centers in the game returning. You can do so much more with the run game with Pouncey in there the way he gets to the second level. You've got established depth behind Pouncey now. And of course our receivers 1-4 are without peer. ( I think DHB moves on and Coates is the 4th receiver next year) But now we come to what I believe is Haley and Tomlin's greatest challenge. It's a two headed "monster" at that.

1. You've got to split the reps between LeVeon Bell and DeAngelo Williams in a sensible manner! Last year as we all know when Bell was down with suspension Williams came in and did a great job subbing in for him. And again after Bell was hurt. He was one of the leading rushers in the league through the first two week. Then Bell comes back and DeAngelo becomes Claude Raines. ( the invisible man) Might as well have put him on a milk carton! I realize LeVeon is clearly the top dog on this sled ride. And no I'm not going all "Tee Tee" on you and blaming Bell's injury on overuse. But these are two exceptional players and if you're gearing yourself to a long playoff run you want both engaged and fresh! You figure on average you've got 60ish offensive snaps a game. Bell is such a unique talent that he's perfectly adaptable to empty back sets. He operates perfectly as a slot receiver or even lined up a wr on the los. So in other words you factor into the equation that Bell is your primary and best third down back. Now of course Williams proved himself highly able in this role as well. But again he's no LeVeon. Of course no one else in the league is either. Anyone getting back to the point, let's ballpark it at 65 snaps per game. I want DeAngelo to get at least 20 snaps per game. That should translate into about 5 touches per game. Now obviously game circumstances will vary and I'm not saying this should be ironclad. But over the course of 4 games if Williams is getting roughly a third of the snaps and getting roughly the same proportion of touches then I think Todd Haley is doing his job well!

2. The second part of the equation may be the tougher part. You've got to rein in Ben and AB somewhat. Yeah it looks wonderful that Antonio is challenging all time NFL records for yards and catches by a receiver. But is it necessarily the best thing for the team? I realize that Ben and AB have a special bond and feel for each other. That AB can catch a ball on a play he's covered on and that Ben excels at throwing him open. But I think you get to a point of saturation, a point where your thoughts and movements together become anticipated. And therefore you become vulnerable, as in interceptions!

Now here's the good news regarding point 2. I think with LeVeon back Ben will be disinclined to force the issue as much with AB. I think there was a clear connection to Ben's superior TD to int ratio in 2014 compared to last year that relates considerably to Le'Veon's presence on the field. Taking nothing away from Martavis (who's still emerging) Heath Miller, DeAngelo or anyone else, but Le'Veon commands a respect few players will in this league demand.

So now getting back to point one. This is why it's essential that Tomlin and Haley refrain from "running the wheels off" Le'Veon as once Tomlin proudly proclaimed and then succeeded in doing with Willie Parker. If Le'Veon, Ben and Antonio all make it through next season healthy and go into the playoffs that way, no matter what shortcomings we have on defense we will be the team hosting the AFC Championship game and advancing to the Super Bowl.

Thoughts?

[86WARD]

I like your thoughts.

Ben and AB have been honed in on each other for a couple seasons and teams haven't been able to stop them other than taking Ben out and putting Vick in...lol. What makes you think teams will become vulnerable? I see what you are saying in a "normal" situation, but teams haven't come close yet...

I think this is a season (upcoming) that the team is going to have to deal with time without AB. Of course there's no evidence to back that up...just a hunch...which hopefully is just a pessimistic thought.

[tube517]

Pretty much in agreement. Haley needs to improve his red zone playcalling or just let Ben call it. Munchak will be around another year, too.

1. Le'Vangelo: I'd like to see them both get carries. I think Haley was going to start using DeAngelo to complement Le'veon but he got injured too soon.

2. For this year, Martavis slumped near the end of the season so Ben going to AB was happening more. (At least that is how I saw it) Throw in The Outlaw and Coates (along with Wheaton, Bell, Williams) next year and there will be alot of targets to other offensive players.

[ALLD]

I wouldn't waste a draft pick on a RB or WR next time.

[Shoes]

Good stuff Zu! Is Haley really the one who decides how many snaps Bell & Williams get or is it Tomlin?

I think that ball is in Tomlin's court.

[zulater]

Good stuff Zu! Is Haley really the one who decides how many snaps Bell & Williams get or is it Tomlin?

I think that ball is in Tomlin's court.

Good question. I would imagine there's some discussion in the week leading up to each game how they plan to implement various personnel into the lineup, but once the game starts I think it's mostly on Haley. The one who controls the play call seemingly would be responsible for what players get on the field and when. But if Tomlin sees too little or too much of someone during the course of a game I'm sure he lets it be known and it's addressed in the moment. But that's all strictly a guess.

[zulater]

Pretty much in agreement. Haley needs to improve his red zone playcalling or just let Ben call it. Munchak will be around another year, too.

1. Le'Vangelo: I'd like to see them both get carries. I think Haley was going to start using DeAngelo to complement Le'veon but he got injured too soon.

2. For this year, Martavis slumped near the end of the season so Ben going to AB was happening more. (At least that is how I saw it) Throw in The Outlaw and Coates (along with Wheaton, Bell, Williams) next year and there will be alot of targets to other offensive players.

"LeVangelo" I like it!

In my ideal world Le'Veon gets 18 carries a game and 4-6 targets in the passing game. DeAngelo gets 7-10 total touches on average. Throw in 2-4 carries a game by other backs, and that leaves you with Ben throwing about 28-35 a game. Perfect balance. We'd be tough to deal with.

[zulater]

I wouldn't waste a draft pick on a RB or WR next time.

Absolutely not. But here's a question for the board. If someone offered you a 4th round pick ( or praise Jesus a 3rd ) for Wheaton, believing that Sammy Coates is an emerging talent, and that DHB is perfectly cast as a #4 receiver, would youn take it?

I would in a nano second, Nothing against Wheaton but you have to give value to get value and we have other needs that could be addressed with that pick. Plus Wheaton is a year removed from free agency. Which means the best you probably get is a 5th. But I still think I take it to clear the spot for Coates as much an anything.

[SteelersProfessor]

2. The second part of the equation may be the tougher part. You've got to rein in Ben and AB somewhat.

Not tough at all. Ben looks to AB, because AB is the ONLY constant WR on the field for him. Everyone else mix's and matches due to Todd Haley's inane substitutions.

Keep it simple, your best three wides, one TE, and a RB. Stop the constant subbing, nail #45, #46, and #89 to the bench.

Treat the first 28 minutes of a half the same way you treat the final two. Don't overthink and complicate things.

It's the only time this offense has worked in four years.

[SteelersProfessor]

Good stuff Zu! Is Haley really the one who decides how many snaps Bell & Williams get or is it Tomlin?

I think that ball is in Tomlin's court.

Haley runs the offense. Period.

[86WARD]

Absolutely not. But here's a question for the board. If someone offered you a 4th round pick ( or praise Jesus a 3rd ) for Wheaton, believing that Sammy Coates is an emerging talent, and that DHB is perfectly cast as a #4 receiver, would youn take it?

I would in a nano second, Nothing against Wheaton but you have to give value to get value and we have other needs that could be addressed with that pick. Plus Wheaton is a year removed from free agency. Which means the best you probably get is a 5th. But I still think I take it to clear the spot for Coates as much an anything.

A 3rd I would take in an instant. A 4th...I would take if I thought there was no chance that I could re-sign him. If I thought there was a good chance to re-sign him, I wouldn't take the pick. I still think that DHB could be a 5th WR and key ST contributor and I feel like he is at a stage that he could accept that. Would the team dress 5 WRs on Game Day? Not sure...

[SteelersProfessor]

I would take a 4th for Wheaton. He won't be worth the price tag going forward and if you pay him one year and he leaves chances are the comp pick would be worse.

[steelamazing]

2. The second part of the equation may be the tougher part. You've got to rein in Ben and AB somewhat. Yeah it looks wonderful that Antonio is challenging all time NFL records for yards and catches by a receiver. But is it necessarily the best thing for the team? I realize that Ben and AB have a special bond and feel for each other. That AB can catch a ball on a play he's covered on and that Ben excels at throwing him open. But I think you get to a point of saturation, a point where your thoughts and movements together become anticipated. And therefore you become vulnerable, as in interceptions!

I totally agree, Ben has the opportunity to have a Joe Montana 1990 type season, use all his weapons, hopefully Jesse James will be a big contributor.

Time to make Ben a true elite, he will have the offensive line, the running backs coming out of the backfield, the best recievers in the league, use all of them.

If he would quit going for the fence all the time and use his weapons and play the time of posession game, that will help the defense, Ben has the opportunity to do whatever he wants, if he would exercise patience.

Which I think will lead to more success in the red zone.

[SteelersProfessor]

Um, no, Haley needs to leave his "weapons" on the field and stop trying to be cute in crucial parts of a game.

That's what ruined the last 4 years.

[Shoes]

Good question. I would imagine there's some discussion in the week leading up to each game how they plan to implement various personnel into the lineup, but once the game starts I think it's mostly on Haley. The one who controls the play call seemingly would be responsible for what players get on the field and when. But if Tomlin sees too little or too much of someone during the course of a game I'm sure he lets it be known and it's addressed in the moment. But that's all strictly a guess.

Probably a good guess, Zu. I think what Haley decides in game planing has to be approved by Tomlin.

[Psycho Ward 86]

yeah great point. as great as Deangelo has been as a pass catcher out of the backfield, Ben definitely didnt throw to him so reflexively as he always did with Leveon. I think this past season will turn out to be an abberant and Ben will throw (dare i say) 40 TD's and 12 interceptions

[SteelersProfessor]

For the most part Haley runs the offense. He can't run everything by Tomlin simply because there is no time.

Now if a player screws up? Repeatedly? Then Tomlin chimes in. But for the most part? It's Haley's baby.

- - - Updated - - -

yeah great point. as great as Deangelo has been as a pass catcher out of the backfield, Ben definitely didnt throw to him so reflexively as he always did with Leveon. I think this past season will turn out to be an abberant and Ben will throw (dare i say) 40 TD's and 12 interceptions

DeAngelo caught 40 passes for Ben. Ben only played in 12 games. He caught zero passes in the four games Ben missed.

That's over three passes a game. With an offense that features the best WR in football.

That's plenty.

[Shoes]

For the most part Haley runs the offense. He can't run everything by Tomlin simply because there is no time.

Now if a player screws up? Repeatedly? Then Tomlin chimes in. But for the most part? It's Haley's baby.

If thats how the offense runs, then it must be the same for the defense. Do you think it was Butler's choice in playing Blake all season?

[SteelersProfessor]

If thats how the offense runs, then it must be the same for the defense. Do you think it was Butler's choice in playing Blake all season?

Butler, Lake, and Tomlin all like Blake. But the "rumor" is that Boykin said something to Tomlin about his snap count after week one and that PO'd Tomlin. He felt that Boykin, being the "new guy" should have kept his trap shut. And Tomlin held a grudge.

Boykin would AVOID the local media during the week, would barely speak to them. Boykin would get up and walk out of the locker room if he saw a reporter whom he knew would ask him why he doesn't think he is playing as much as he should.

[Shoes]

Butler, Lake, and Tomlin all like Blake. But the "rumor" is that Boykin said something to Tomlin about his snap count after week one and that PO'd Tomlin. He felt that Boykin, being the "new guy" should have kept his trap shut. And Tomlin held a grudge.

Boykin would AVOID the local media during the week, would barely speak to them. Boykin would get up and walk out of the locker room if he saw a reporter whom he knew would ask him why he doesn't think he is playing as much as he should.

You side stepped that one, but it doesn't matter because this is headed off course and I don't want Zu's thread to be highjacked.

[SteelersProfessor]

I think Butler wanted Blake out there, but I also think Tomlin tinkers with that side of the football MORE than he does with Haley's.

Haley runs this offense the exact way he ran his offense in Kansas City.

[teegre]

Haley's biggest challenge: not out-thinking himself.


At times, his offense reminds me of the 1997 AFCCG. You have Bettis; they can't stop Bettis; so... the coaches put the ball in Kordell's hands. Haley has the best offensive talent in the entire league; all he has to do is "not" mess it up. It really is that simple.



HALEY: First-and-goal from the one. They're thinking run; so, we will line up in the I-formation, but throw a screen to the fullback.

BEN: Or... we give it to Bell.

[SteelersProfessor]

It's not out-thinking himself. It's him being too busy trying to show everyone he's the smartest kid in class.

Until they put the dunce cap on his head and send him to Time Out.

That was his issue in Kansas City, he was too into trying to promote himself and his genius.

And he's doing the same damn thing in Pittsburgh.

[SteelersProfessor]

In many ways Todd Haley is the envy of every other OC in the NFL.

I agree with this. They are probably wondering how a guy who's offense has scored 20 or less in 26 of their past 52 games, including three straight under 20 point efforts in the playoffs, with all this alleged "talent", and somehow keeps his job?

[fansince'76]

Um, no, Haley needs to leave his "weapons" on the field and stop trying to be cute in crucial parts of a game.

You mean like on opening day where we came out of the gate shoving it down the Pats' throats only to kill the drive and flip momentum with the idiotic flea flicker to AB which got completely blown up and lost 8 yards? I agree. And he made plenty of those kinds of calls throughout the season.

It's not out-thinking himself. It's him being too busy trying to show everyone he's the smartest kid in class.

Until they put the dunce cap on his head and send him to Time Out.

That was his issue in Kansas City, he was too into trying to promote himself and his genius.

And he's doing the same damn thing in Pittsburgh.

Bingo. This is my issue with Haley in a nutshell as well. Arians used to get crucified for the same thing (with a LOT less in the cupboard than Haley's been given), but Haley seems to get a pass. To be completely fair, though, Haley does have his good moments (kinda hard not to with the talent on offense this team has), but he has far too many WTF moments, IMO.

[teegre]

It's not out-thinking himself. It's him being too busy trying to show everyone he's the smartest kid in class.

Semantics

[Hawkman]

Yep Zu, I figured this would turn into a Haley bashing thread. Nice try though.

[86WARD]

Arguably the best offense in the NFL...yet Haley isn't a good coordinator...

[Count Steeler]

Arguably the best offense in the NFL...yet Haley isn't a good coordinator...

Scary to think what would happen with a real OC, eh?

[86WARD]

Scary to think what would happen with a real OC, eh?

Average 600 passing and 58 points a game.