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Originally Posted by tube517
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I think we will resign Gay and also pick up a S or CB FA as well. My thoughts are they will try for McCain or Weddle (I would think Weddle wants a ring before he is done so it is us or NE with a discount for him). Golson or Grant should work their way into the sub packages. So I would be happy with DL/S in 1&2 and a good project CB in 3.
Yikes. As much as I like Darian Thompson he just ran 4.7 and followed it up with 4.72 in the 40 yard dash. That puts me on edge
with so many other good players expected to be available at 1(25), how can the Steelers justify selecting a safety in the first round who only runs a 4.70?
They can't and I have actually touched on Thompson previously. I don't know how the coaches view it but I know the Podcast guys and a lot of fans look at this as a replace Will Allen thing. In my opinion they need to be looking for a guy that can replace Mitchell at FS so he can play much more as a SS. I know the position is considered kind of fluid in Pittsburgh but some of the same basics still tend to apply.with so many other good players expected to be available at 1(25), how can the Steelers justify selecting a safety in the first round who only runs a 4.70?
Mitchell is a not a great center field type and definitely doesn't have a great feel for going after the ball. He missed quite a few tackles this season in space and from taking poor angles. He prefers to head hunt over ball hawking and there were a few times this season he aimed to destroy instead of getting a possible INT. Like he didn't even remember there was an actual ball on the field.
In my opinion you move him to SS and you have a potential pro bowl safety as opposed to just the average guy we have now. With that being said, Thompson had 19 INT's so he has a nose for the ball but that speed is concerning as a center field type who has to cover a lot of ground. In taking him you would have to hope he was very cerebral to make up for the lack of speed. I guess it doesn't matter though because I think he is viewed more as an SS anyway.
Give me an FS all day so we can move Mitchell.
I don't like the Thompson pick either. Not sold on him as a great player in the pros (besides his combine numbers - how many stars from Boise State can you name?), it would be a reach, and that reach would not be to fill our top need, more like a 1A at best, maybe 2 or 3. Safety this year looks like you take the best player available in Round 2, who is going to be almost as good as the best player available at the end of Round 1, if not the same player exactly.
See you Space Cowboy ...
Yes. That 4.7 is a killer. He will probably be available in R2. Even with that I don't think the Steelers should even look at him now.
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NFL combine Day 4, winners and losers:
Winners
Jalen Ramsey, DB, Florida State: The top-rated defensive back in the draft confirmed his status as a world-class athlete with spectacular football skills at the combine on Monday. Ramsey posted impressive measurements (a 4.41-second 40-yard dash, a 41.5-inch vertical jump and an 11-3 broad jump) for a big-bodied safety (Ramsey checks in at 6-foot-1 and 209 pounds) with long arms. In addition, the Florida State standout displayed outstanding quickness and fluidity in a variety of position drills designed to showcase his footwork and movement skills. With Ramsey's résumé full of splash plays and knockout hits, he cemented his reputation as a top-five talent with his strong performance.
....more
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300...-ramsey-shines
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Word is now coming out that he was sick during the combine. No way to know if it's the truth or not. I guess we'll see at his pro day.
I believe the game is designed to reward the ones who hit the hardest. If you can't take it, you shouldn't play! - Jack Lambert
Speed isn't everything.
Mike Mitchell has one of the fastest 40-times ever.
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http://www.steelersdepot.com/2016/02...uring-combine/
Mojouw brought up a name, which I think needs to be discussed:
Jaylon Smith
He might have been the only blue chip player in this draft. Now, he may never play again... or, he might be able to play in August. No one truly knows. If he recovers, you have the steal of the decade. If not, you've wasted a pick (which could have been used to win now).
QUESTION:
At what point is the risk worth the possible reward?
see above
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Very hard to give an answer without being there to see all of the medicals and having a doctor explain it to you. It is also different for the Steelers because we are so close to the 7th ring and these are Bens golden years. So we need win now players. Here is the way I see it.
If a doctor told you he would be ready some time in the 2016 season to play at 100% but there was still a decent risk of setbacks I think you take the risk in round 1 or 2.
If he can't play this season and we will never know what becomes of him definitely no earlier than 3 but I would be more comfortable in 4-5.
At the same point that Willis Machee was? I honestly don't remember what round that was - like 3rd or so?
R1... 23rd overall.
Hmmm...
Willis McGahee was drafted by the Buffalo Bills with the 23rd pick in the first round of the 2003 NFL Draft.
I agree.
Mitchell as a FS... eh.
Mitchell as a SS... tell me more.
SUMMATION:
Sign Weddle. Move Mitchell to SS.
I'm fully on board.
the added benefit would be that we wouldn't have to spend a high draft choice on a safety...
It isnt worth it when your franchise QB is near the end of his career. Only if he were a flier, Round 4 or later would i take the shot
Absolutely.
This would also allow the Steelers to use a premium pick on a "situational" player, namely Carl Nassib.
Needs: DL, S, CB, PR (pass-rusher)
DL: first round
S: Weddle
CB: third round
PR: Nassib in round two
I don't agree. If you can get a "elite" player or a potential guy you build parts of your team around - then draft him. Especially outside of the top 10. If the Steelers only draft who can help them win "now" - then you are going to get more Jarvis Jones and Ricardo Colclough style picks.
I don't agree lol. Or I should say, your examples don't help your point. Jarvis Jones isn't a guy who is really going to help you win now. If PW86 is defining it the same way I would we are talking about an almost instant starter capable guy who can give you some splash.
So if you draft a pass rusher he is adding a lot of pressure or somewhere around 5-10 sacks. If you add a CB we are getting 4+ INT's out of him or some shutdown performances. Jarvis Jones is just a guy you might find in the 4th or 5th rounds.
So if you are drafting a guy to win now that doesn't mean you are sacrificing on the future. You may be sacrificing a higher ceiling in the long run but if you get a 10 year starter who is capable of some pro bowl years you get the win now and build for the future.
If that is how you define "need" then we are talking about the same thing. That is what I meant "elite" or "foundational" player. A guy that can come in and from day one be an important piece of your team. What I am arguing against is taking, say Jarvis Jones at 1.17 because you "need" an edge player.
Because of that you miss out on the Eric Reid's, Desmond Trufants, and Xavier Rhodes of the world. Not to mention Shariff Floyd, Tyler Eifert, Deandre Hopkins, Sylvester WIlliams, etc.
Long story short, team need and positional value very rarely align in a draft. When it happens it can be awesome. But the best strategy is to simply take the best damn player left on the board. Figure the rest out in camp.
i think you misunderstood what i said. i agree with you. what im arguing against is risking a premium draft pick on a guy that basically has no chance to contribute soon or is a huge project player vs. a player that we could have taken who has a high floor and looks to be a plug and play starter. i wouldnt be surprised at all if something happens to Ben thats bad enough to force him into retirement in the next 3 years, so ill pass on the high risk/high reward project guys that require premium draft picks as long as he's around
I was talking specifically about risking on Jaylon Smith. He isn't win now type of guy if you have to wait a season for him to be ready. I was just saying you can get a guy who can help you win now and also be a good future player.
Basically all of this is a good outlook. Absolutely, if a game-changing talent drops to us at any position other than QB or center (neither of which I see out there anyway), then we've got to at least look at the option. But if it's, say, an inside linebacker, then he'd better be damn good if we draft him over DL or DB. You can kind of predict where we're likely to go - DL is a need and there are a lot of good ones, CB/S are needs and there are not so many this year - but who knows what will really happen.
I would call a guy with a severe knee injury a complete roll of the dice, though. He might have been a game-changer before, but now there's no telling whether he is or isn't. No sense using your first pick on that. It'd have to be about R3 before I'd even consider it.
One more thing: If the player who "falls" to us is a pass-rushing OLB with lots of raw athleticism but needs polish ... please, please, PLEASE, I wish we would stop biting on that. Those guys are a dime a dozen; at least one or two of them "fall" out of the top 15 every year and then ... meh. We seem to be stockpiling them. Stop it.
See you Space Cowboy ...
I guess what I am saying is that if your medical people are as sure as they can be that Smith is going to be player he was in college at some point in 2016 (whether it is during or after the season) and he is there at 25 AND the draft has broken so that he is flat out head and shoulders more talented than any alternative pick - like he is going to make multiple All-Pro teams and the next best guy is the Jarvis Jones of CBs (Hi, Justin Gilbert, how are you?) then how can you not draft him?
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But when you get a guy that you need now, teams very often pass on far superior players at other less "needy" positions.
I get that it is walking a knife edge, particularly when your franchise QB is aging. But if the top 4 DTs, Top4 CBs, and Top 4 safeties are off the board and the top guard is there, do you take that player or the 5th best something else?
Is his injury any worse than Bell's (I honestly don't know)? We all assume Bell is coming back 100%.
When have we biten on a "pass-rushing OLB with lots of raw athleticism but needs polish"? So there was Dupree and who?
Jones was polished and had no athleticism. Timmons was raw, but that was 8 years ago and his career is winding down. Shazier was athletic and polished and played inside.
After that, you have to move to later rounds of the draft. Since after about the first two rounds it is a dice roll anyways...
That being said, even considering the Steelers 2nd round picks at LB since 2000, there have been Kendrell Bell, Alzonzo Jackson, Lamaar Woodley, and Jason Worilds. That's it. So 2 hits that got derailed by injuries and/or getting fat. One absolute whiff (that is basically all on Cowher), and one "meh".
Not exactly a track record of awful. The really bad ones have come in the 3rd round and later. And Jarvis. Jarvis just makes it seem worse than it is.
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