Question for the ruling experts

[plenewken]

How can there be an excessive celebration penalty for a nullified TD?

[fansince'76]

No idea. I was wondering about that myself.

[steelerdude15]

What I don't understand is how can Burfict intercept the ball and then run into the tunnel without getting a penalty? How was that not excessive celebration?

[plenewken]

What I don't understand is how can Burfict intercept the ball and then run into the tunnel without getting a penalty? How was that not excessive celebration?

I guess the answer is:

[Count Steeler]

This is the NFL. We don't need "rules". (Think of Back to the Future, when they are going to the future and Dr. Brown says, "roads, we don't need roads")

[steel striker]

Yeah I wondering the samething like just about everyone else. Making crap up as they go?

[Mojouw]

For another rules puzzler, what about Shazier's hit, fumble, and recovery on Bernard. How about if it was a fumble - how was it not a TD? Shazier scoops and scores untouched. Not to be an ass, but Bernard couldn't have touched him down, he was unconscious.

It just doesn't make sense.

[Butch]

What I don't understand is how can Burfict intercept the ball and then run into the tunnel without getting a penalty? How was that not excessive celebration?

Because it's delay of game?

LOL

[BigNastyDefense]

Because excessive celebration of an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty, that's why.

If the flag was for an illegal block in the back on the return and it turns out the TD doesn't count because of Cam Thomas being ruled down, that would nullify the penalty.

As for Shazier, they blew the play dead upon realizing Bernard was knocked out. They shouldn't have blown it dead, they screwed us out of a touchdown on that one. But once they blow it dead, the Steelers can only be ruled possession, any type of return is nullified.

[Psycho Ward 86]

How can there be an excessive celebration penalty for a nullified TD?

the penalty i recall was more specifically because of what looked to be an organized TD celebration. Dupree and Gay were doing the same dance together, and thats illegal no matter how you cut it. thats been in place for many years now

[tube517]

Also both Dupree and Gay should never do that dance again not only to avoid penalty but also because they arent going to win any dancing contests. Now if they get Deebo out there.......

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[Craic]

As for Shazier, they blew the play dead upon realizing Bernard was knocked out. They shouldn't have blown it dead, they screwed us out of a touchdown on that one. But once they blow it dead, the Steelers can only be ruled possession, any type of return is nullified.

I have no problem with that play getting the quick whistle. Look at it from the Ref's POV, rather than a Steelers fan's POV. A player just got drilled. Hard. In the head. It's legal, but it's the type of plays that we now know cause serious head injuries. Moreover, he's on the ground. The ball doesn't pop out where a ref can see it, either. It simply falls with him, thus being obscured by Shazier's size, who's going down with Bernard. The rule's always been, "Blow the whistle when you lose sight of the ball" on something like that. So, no problem with the quick whistle. Would have been nice not to have it blown as it would have been a TD, but I think it was the right call at the moment.

[86WARD]

For another rules puzzler, what about Shazier's hit, fumble, and recovery on Bernard. How about if it was a fumble - how was it not a TD? Shazier scoops and scores untouched. Not to be an ass, but Bernard couldn't have touched him down, he was unconscious.

It just doesn't make sense.

It wasn't a TD because the whistle blew...we see that a couple times a year. It's basically an out for when the refs fuck up...that was easily 6 points. As for the OP question, I guess a penalty is a penalty?

[SteelMayhem72]

im tired of these dumb penalties we get after we score points. How bout Boz doing a field goal dance...now that would be original and funny...lol

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[86WARD]

Bengals are right..."Jerry" Porter and the Steelers coaches shouldn't be on the field...

[steelreserve]

How can there be an excessive celebration penalty for a nullified TD?

Technically you could get a penalty for celebrating anything - a sack, a fumble, a non-TD ... they don't care if it counts or not. But yeah, really stupid.

What I'd really like to see more of are cheap shots on the opposing team after the touchdown. Like, it's probably going to be a touchback anyway, so who cares if they kick off from the 35 or the 50. Like when Hill scored that touchdown? GREAT opportunity for a cheap shot. Although then maybe he wouldn't have been in the game to fumble it away, so never mind.

For another rules puzzler, what about Shazier's hit, fumble, and recovery on Bernard. How about if it was a fumble - how was it not a TD? Shazier scoops and scores untouched. Not to be an ass, but Bernard couldn't have touched him down, he was unconscious.

It just doesn't make sense.

It should've been a touchdown, but they were blowing the whistle all the way down the field, so they'll stop it for that no matter what else happens. Also sucks.

[HollywoodSteel]

I have no problem with that play getting the quick whistle. Look at it from the Ref's POV, rather than a Steelers fan's POV. A player just got drilled. Hard. In the head. It's legal, but it's the type of plays that we now know cause serious head injuries. Moreover, he's on the ground. The ball doesn't pop out where a ref can see it, either. It simply falls with him, thus being obscured by Shazier's size, who's going down with Bernard. The rule's always been, "Blow the whistle when you lose sight of the ball" on something like that. So, no problem with the quick whistle. Would have been nice not to have it blown as it would have been a TD, but I think it was the right call at the moment.

I understand you're reasoning, but I doubt it was the refs'. I don't think safety concerns played into it. They just didn't see the fumble and weren't judging it in that capacity. If the hit didn't look as hard as it was but the runner still fumbled before hitting the ground in the exact same manner is it happened, and the runner didn't appear injured in any way, they still would have blown the whistle. Just like they did when Ben was sacked but douchebag then grabbed the ball and ran it in. The whistle was blown when the play appeared over to them to try and prevent any pointless tussling for the ball afterward.

And on the other hand, had everything been exactly the same (huge hit plus runner doesn't get up) BUT THEY SEE the fumble, or even if it looked like a close call, they don't blow that whistle. I have seen many plays go on well after a player is clearly knocked out. But I have never seen a play stopped as (for example) a defender runs back a pick while another player is sleeping UNLESS a helmet comes off or a flag is thrown that is gonna negate everything that happened after.

[Mojouw]

I get that it was blown dead but I thought the whole point was to let the play continue to a logical conclusion then blow the whistle. That way you can fix about anything in review. Turns out not to have mattered, but no one wants to talk about that. If that TD stands and it should've, are the Bengals ever even in a position to win the game?

Also can you imagine the PR shitstorm if Shazier's hit has led directly to the winning points?


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[HollywoodSteel]

I get that it was blown dead but I thought the whole point was to let the play continue to a logical conclusion then blow the whistle. That way you can fix about anything in review. Turns out not to have mattered, but no one wants to talk about that. If that TD stands and it should've, are the Bengals ever even in a position to win the game?

Also can you imagine the PR shitstorm if Shazier's hit has led directly to the winning points?


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That's exactly why I believe the refs didn't even know there was anything to play out. When a player is tackled and down by contact, we often see some player grab the ball and start pointlessly running with it. Then the refs blow the whistle repeatedly to prevent any extra physicality and time wasting. We think nothing of it when it's obviously a dead ball situation. The refs never even saw the controversy. They can't let every play go on forever just cause a guy decides to waste time and potentially more physicality after any tackle. The refs missed it. Plain and simple. They thought they saw a guy get tackled, without any hint of a possible fumble, so they blew the whistle. It was an unfortunate mistake on their part, but it happens when they totally miss something.

They also missed Burfict driving his knee into Ben's shoulder after the sack. If they'd seen it, the press would be framing the whole game from that point on differently; not that the Bengals had it won and blew it it due to dirty play at the end, but that Bengals were only in the game at all due to a viscous, cowardly act with intent to injure the QB.

[HollywoodSteel]

I understand you're reasoning, but I doubt it was the refs'. I don't think safety concerns played into it. They just didn't see the fumble and weren't judging it in that capacity. If the hit didn't look as hard as it was but the runner still fumbled before hitting the ground in the exact same manner is it happened, and the runner didn't appear injured in any way, they still would have blown the whistle. Just like they did when Ben was sacked but douchebag then grabbed the ball and ran it in. The whistle was blown when the play appeared over to them to try and prevent any pointless tussling for the ball afterward.

And on the other hand, had everything been exactly the same (huge hit plus runner doesn't get up) BUT THEY SEE the fumble, or even if it looked like a close call, they don't blow that whistle. I have seen many plays go on well after a player is clearly knocked out. But I have never seen a play stopped as (for example) a defender runs back a pick while another player is sleeping UNLESS a helmet comes off or a flag is thrown that is gonna negate everything that happened after.

And just to be clear, Craic, I agree with most of your post; that the refs didn't even see the ball because it was obscured, etc.