Tomlin's Curious Decisions Backfire

[steelreserve]

Spot on.

Plus, as I mentioned in post #47, three of the long passes should have drawn PIs (first downs) and another was absolutely a missed opportunity for a TD.

Yeah, I don't feel good about long PI calls even when they go our way, but fuck the Seahawks; I'd take them.

Either way, I don't think there's much room for criticizing the offense. They scored 30 points and not because of lucky field position or anything; they earned that shit. The long passes weren't forced or badly thrown.

If people want to talk about questionable decisions, there were others that cost us up to a 10-point swing and possibly the game, and the same could be said for unlucky breaks. However, the main reason we lost was because our defensive backfield is the equivalent of a Wesley Willis song. Scott, Flowers and Washington have got some serious competition.

[BigBen2004]

At this point, where do you all see this team going? They're at a crossroads.

You own this loss, dig your feet in and play your best ball
Or
You allow it to demoralize you, eat at you, and ruin your confidence.

Which way do you see them heading?
I personally believe they'll beat Indianapolis Sunday night.
However, will it matter if they can't string wins together?

[steelreserve]

At this point, where do you all see this team going? They're at a crossroads.

You own this loss, dig your feet in and play your best ball
Or
You allow it to demoralize you, eat at you, and ruin your confidence.

Which way do you see them heading?
I personally believe they'll beat Indianapolis Sunday night.
However, will it matter if they can't string wins together?

I don't think it was a demoralizing loss, just incredibly frustrating.

At this point in the season, we know what we have: With Ben healthy, we know the offense is going to score around 30 points and give them a chance at winning any game. The defense is completely at the mercy of whether the opponent's offense decides to show up or not.

That's good enough to win more often than not. We're probably carrying about two more losses than we ought to right now because of a combination of bad breaks and dubious choices. Whether we beat Indy depends a lot on both of those things. Will Ben be healthy? If not, do we run a regular offense, or the Haley Turtle? Do we play a regular semi-aggressive defense, or the sit-back where we telegraph the four rushers and forget to cover the tight end?

Of course, the above has been about three-quarters of our games this season. Really only three games where we've entered the week in something resembling a normal state of affairs, and for that matter we were without Bell for those games too. Have to give the players credit for hanging in there, but man, has it been frustrating as a fan.

[Mojouw]

I think they are playing their best ball. That is the whole problem. This roster is still being rebuilt on defense and it isn't all the way there yet. They have about 1/4 or 1/3 of a decent secondary. And 3/4 to 2/3 of one of the worst in football.

But, hey, it could be the Saints. Have extremely talented football players eating up TONS of cap space and STILL have the worst secondary in football. Now - that is a problem.

[86WARD]

FAKE FG:
If Jones throws it immediately after he rolls right, Villanueva is open. Jones hesitates and waits for Villanueva to come open... and then he throws the ball. It was a timing route, and Jones hesitated, which allowed Seattle to react.

FG AT THE END:
Mathematically, you kick the FG, and you have 3:00 left. You use your time outs, and if your defense holds them, you have 2:00 left to drive 50 yards to kick the game-winning FG. Alas, they allowed Seattle to convert that 3rd down (for an 80-yard TD).

GOING FOR 2:
I like being up by 4, that way we're always either tied or up by 1 (as opposed to being down by 1).

DEEP BALLS:
Ben underthrew Bryant for a TD on one. Sherman was allowed to mug AB on another. People are afraid to challenge Seattle's secondary. Pittsburgh hit three deep passes (40+ yards) on them... and no other team has had two deep passes this season. Summation: it worked pretty well.



BLAKE/BOYKIN:
I agree 100%.

AV was open, wasn't looking. He's not catching a "timing route." That was a terribly placed call. Seattle totally figured it out with Jones on the field and we're obviously prepared for it.

[stillers4me]

I avoided this place all last night............ Fire Tomlin!

[TD's & Beer]

Steelers botch game late

Two all-too-common occurrences this season for the Pittsburgh Steelers: Ben Roethlisberger injuries and Mike Tomlin coaching decisions.

On Sunday, the two things intertwined.

The Steelers and Seattle Seahawks, two teams once noted for their vaunted defenses, were embroiled in an offensive shootout Sunday with the Steelers down 32-27 with under four minutes remaining and facing a third-and-goal situation at the Seattle 10-yard line.

Roethlisberger — who threw for 456 yards, the most the Seahawks ever have allowed — scrambled after not being able to find an open receiver. He took it down to the 3-yard line, making it fouth-and-goal with two timeouts left, but taking a big hit from Seahawks linebacker K.J. Wright.

Tomlin opted to kick the field goal to make it a 32-30 Seahawks lead with 3:02 left. This is the same coach, mind you, who goes for two-point conversions just for the heck of it. Who attempted one of the more ridiculous fake field goals in this game you might ever see. Who went for it twice on fourth down in a loss to the Baltimore Ravens this season with Mike Vick at quaterback.

But with Roethlisberger shredding up the Seahawks, Tomlin opted for the three points. We soon found out part of the reason why he might have balked at going for it on fourth. Roethlisberger would be taken to the locker room under the concussion protocol soon after the Seahawks sealed the game a minute later with an 80-yard TD pass to Doug Baldwin.

Landry Jones replaced Roethlisberger on the Steelers' final possession and was picked to cap off the Seahawks' victory.

You can understand a coach feeling iffy about his backup quarterback coming off the bench cold to attempt a fourth-down conversion with the game on the line. But did Tomlin have another choice? It's not as if he legitimately trusted his defense, which allowed 7.4 yards per play and created zero turnovers in the game, even with no Marshawn Lynch or Jimmy Graham (who suffered a bad-looking knee injury) on the field.

Tomlin is a riverboat gambler who trusts his gut over any coaching cheat sheet. He flies in the face of convention, and it sometimes pays off. The Steelers are a gutsy, dangerous team, reflective of their coach's personality.

But sometimes he turns meek unexpectedly. it has to be maddening for a team to see its coach change on the fly like this, even with mitigating circumstances dictating the game flow. That's a situation where kicking the field goal is tantamount to playing to lose, passing up a two-point-conversion-length play to kick a rather meaningless field goal. It makes little coaching sense.

The Steelers lost a game and — again — lost their quarterback to injury. This will be tough for the Steelers to swallow.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-sh...011123901.html

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The riverboat gambler be up the creek without a paddle

[zulater]

On second thought I think the fake fg was more costly than settling for the fg late in the game. That interception on the fake fg was a 10 point swing. That's the game right there folks. Don't get me wrong, we could have missed the kick, they could have returned the resulting kickoff for a td etc.. But most likely we go up 6-0 with all the momentum on our side.

Now getting to the end of the game. I still wish they would have gone for it, but I can see the argument against. And funny enough probably not getting the TD (if Ben would have been able to return) might have been better than getting the TD. Here's why. Say they get the TD. So now it's 33-32. Obviously you go for the 2 point conversion (this is tricky, would Ben still have self reported concussion symptoms if we get the TD?) If you get the 2 you're up by 3, with the Seahawks getting the ball back only having to score a fg to send the game into OT. Of course if you miss the 2 pointer the fg gets them a regulation win. So does anyone believe the way our defense played yesterday that if we get the TD with the Seahawks getting the ball back with time outs, and the two minute warning in their pocket that at best we end up in OT? ( dependent on the success or failure of the 2 point conversion.

Now lets say they fail on 4th down. The Seahawks get the ball most likely at the 3 yard line or close to it ( a sack for example) That's tough sledding down there,even against our defense. Chances are good we force the punt and take the ball back close to midfield, probably with more than 2 minutes left.or there around, needing a td for the win. In other words score and leave no time for retaliation.

So getting back to what we did. All we had to do was get off the field on 3rd down and we get the ball back in good field position with a chance to score a game winning fg to end the game. With Tomlin's scenario he correctly guessed the Seahawks would play the first downs conservative. Playing with the lead that's what you do. So he put his defense in a position that they only had to make one effing play! Stop a 3rd and long, and you've got an excellent chance to be in position to take the game.

So in conclusion what I'm saying is given the now known fact that Ben was concussed we probably aren't winning this game no matter how Tomlin played it. But had Ben continued to play (as Tomlin would have then suspected) the odds for what he did actually might have been better than scoring the TD with that much clock left, particularly if you miss the 2 point conversion attempt. Nothing is worse than losing a game where you see a team playing off the last 45 seconds of the clock to set up a winning fg attempt. I wonder if somewhere in the back of Tomlin's mind that's why he chose the path that he did? Again the way he did it he put the defense in position where they likely could force a 3 and out and only have to defend one pass attempt. The difference how a team plays on offense defending a small lead as opposed to playing aggresivley with a small deficit with time and time outs where chances were good they could have delivered a knock out blow with your best unit (offense) stuck helplessly on the sidelines.

Hope I didn't confuse you there,because I think I may have confused myself a few times.

Anyway given that Ben did get concussed we were probably going to lose that game no matter what Tomlin decided on that play.

[Steeldude]

I gotta say I do love the deep ball, but they take long shots way too often at this point. They were doing quite a bit of damage underneath with Heath until he went out and then it seemed like it was bombs away.

Reminds me of Al Davis ball.

I said awhile back it seems to me Tomlin likes to force a splash play to happen.

[hawaiiansteeler]

On second thought I think the fake fg was more costly than settling for the fg late in the game. That interception on the fake fg was a 10 point swing. That's the game right there folks.

I agree.

30 + 3 = 33 points
39 - 7 = 32 points

[teegre]

Down by 2 points.

They had Seattle in third-&-nine.

If they make that stop, they have 2:20 left to drive down (50 yards) for the game-winning FG.

SUMMATION:
It is as simple as that.

[86WARD]

Down by 2 points.

They had Seattle in third-&-nine.

If they make that stop, they have 2:20 left to drive down (50 yards) for the game-winning FG.

SUMMATION:
It is as simple as that.

It really is that simple. Cut through all the bull shit, the bad coaching, the interceptions, the shit the NFL calls officials and its that simple...

[zulater]

Down by 2 points.

They had Seattle in third-&-nine.

If they make that stop, they have 2:20 left to drive down (50 yards) for the game-winning FG.

SUMMATION:
It is as simple as that.

You can make an argument either way. The argument against is the defense wasn't able to make a stop the previous two possessions so why do you expect them to there? Also with our offense one play from the 3 yard line should be at worst a 50/50 proposition. And of course if you fail pinning the Seahawks inside their own 5 to start the ensuing possession isn't a bad thing either. In fact that might have been the Steelers best chance to win. Because if we score the td on 4th down is anyone surprised if the defense gives up a score right back to the Seahags?

I wont condemn Tomlin's decision. It almost worked.But I can see where people question it.

[ALLD]

If we go 8-8 or worse I would dump Tomlin. The guy is more concerned about his position in football history rather than making it.

[smokin3000gt]

Fuck your stupid stats. The only ones that matter are: A. POINTS. and B. Wins and Losses.

You seem like a very intelligent and classy individual. I hope your future posts are as thought out as the above post.

[steelreserve]

Down by 2 points.

They had Seattle in third-&-nine.

If they make that stop, they have 2:20 left to drive down (50 yards) for the game-winning FG.

SUMMATION:
It is as simple as that.

I'd say stopping them on 3rd-and-9 was about a 50-50 chance based on giving up 7.4 yards per play - probably worse than that considering we'd just allowed three touchdowns in the last four drives, encompassing a total of 12 plays.

Then driving 50 yards was exactly a 50-50 chance based on our previous 12 drives in the game, so a 25% chance overall if we're being generous to our defense.

Then kicking the field goal itself, which would be anywhere from 50-90% depending on how close we got. So somewhere between a 12% and 22% chance of winning.

Trying for a touchdown from inside the 5 was a 50-50 chance.

Of course, we didn't get past the first one because our defense was giving the shit-tastic performance of their lives and used that opportunity to put the exclamation point on it.

I know, I know, we could've scored a TD and the defense could've blown it anyway, or we could've tried and failed (and been in more or less the same situation as kicking the FG), but the fact is the coach bet it all on a unit that was getting its ass handed to it because of an obvious weak spot. And what happened? The opponent said "Thank you very much" and went right at the weak spot again, and won the game.

[hawaiiansteeler]

You seem like a very intelligent and classy individual. I hope your future posts are as thought out as the above post.

he'll need time to recover from the brain muscle he pulled from thinking so hard...

[j-d-s]

Not only that but they came out with the personnel after the break. Any good coordinator or coach could see that Landry Jones was on the field...where he normally is not. It was a poorly timed decision. Not only that but the execution was horrible. Villenueva wasn't close to open...at a brief moment he was, but Jones would've had to throw the ball and it would've hit AV in the back. By the time AV turned around, he was covered. Only way that play works is if Jones leads him towards e end zone with the pass and I'm willing to bet if that happens AV doesn't make that catch.

Why go for the win against Baltimore but not have the balls to do it here. He went for 2 when he shouldn't have today...keep your balls on and go for the win. Worst case you don't get it and Seattle is pinned on their own three.

I think this is the real problem. Going for a fake FG on the first play of the quarter is just stupid. If it is during a normal play, they might not be able to substitute, but that fake probably was never designed for use after a break. I would like though to have Landry as our regular holder, because that way he is on the field for normal field goals.

But what I don't get is why Landry threw it to Villanueva of all people. He is a Lineman. There was Heath in there and he was open, he certainly would've converted there.

[tube517]

I think this is the real problem. Going for a fake FG on the first play of the quarter is just stupid. If it is during a normal play, they might not be able to substitute, but that fake probably was never designed for use after a break. I would like though to have Landry as our regular holder, because that way he is on the field for normal field goals.

But what I don't get is why Landry threw it to Villanueva of all people. He is a Lineman. There was Heath in there and he was open, he certainly would've converted there.

Villanueva was a TE in college. He threw it too late. But, a terrible call at that point in time. The play developed way too slow as Landry went back for the snap. He threw it late. They knew something was up when he came into hold. Just a disaster.

[teegre]

Good points about going for it on fourth down. Lots of logic.


I guess my point was: whether or not they went for it on fourth down, or whether Sherman mugged AB, or whether Bryant dropped too many passes, or whether BB underthrew Bryant on a TD, or this, that, or the litany other things that transpired...

...the game still hinged on one play: 3rd-&-9.


[NOTE: I was certain that the defense would nut up, and force a punt. Alas... ]

[TD's & Beer]

If we go 8-8 or worse I would dump Tomlin.

Hire Les Miles!

He would take it in a heartbeat

[st33lersguy]

The main problem with Tomlin is the lack of focus that he allows to persist. Of course the terrible personnel decisions that he has made (Cam Thomas still being allowed on the team, trading a 5th round pick for Boykin then sitting him behind possibly the worst CB in the NFL in Antwon Blake who is somehow still allowed to start)

[hawaiiansteeler]

If we go 8-8 or worse I would dump Tomlin.

do you realize that if the Steelers were to go 8-8 that would mean Tomlin still would not have had a losing season?

the Rooneys would never fire Tomlin if that were the case, they just don't operate that way...

[NCSteeler]

Just saw a nice stat on the amazing Jeff Fischer, 21 seasons, only 6 winning records. Wow! Tomlin is a total bonehead sometimes, but it could be much worse. Someone needs to force changes in the secondary though, worst in the league , can't argue that the bench is worse


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[hawaiiansteeler]

Someone needs to force changes in the secondary though, worst in the league , can't argue that the bench is worse

against the Seahawks Golden played zero snaps on defense while Will Allen played all 64 of them.

Allen had arguably his worst game of the season against Seattle, why not give Golden a try? when Allen was injured I thought Golden filled in very well and to me looked to be an upgrade over the aging Will Allen.

I highly doubt that Will Allen starts for any other NFL team..

[86WARD]

against the Seahawks Golden played zero snaps on defense while Will Allen played all 64 of them.

Allen had arguably his worst game of the season against Seattle, why not give Golden a try? when Allen was injured I thought Golden filled in very well and to me looked to be an upgrade over the aging Will Allen.

I highly doubt that Will Allen starts for any other NFL team..

You'd be hard pressed to see any other Steelers DB not named Mitchell,start for another NFL team...including Gay.

[j-d-s]

Firing Tomlin won't solve any problems because it is unlikely that his successor would do better than him... there are not many really good coaches in the league who are free and then it also has to work out with the organization. Jim Harbaugh for example is certainly a good coach, but he would be no fit for us and make things only worse here.

The only real option probably would be to promote Todd Haley to HC... but then we need a new OC and that does not seem smart at this point in Ben's career.

[hawaiiansteeler]

[tube517]

You'd be hard pressed to see any other Steelers DB not named Mitchell,start for another NFL team...including Gay.

LeBeau would probably take Gay at Tennessee. But, yeah, other than that, I agree.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Trying for a touchdown from inside the 5 was a 50-50 chance.

something else to consider:

the Steelers are 6 for 9 on 2-point conversions so far this season, which is a conversion rate of 66.7%...