Grade on Tomlin,Butler and Haley after 10 games?

[polamalubeast]

What is your grade on Tomlin,Haley and Butler after 10 games?

Are you Happy?

[Mojouw]

B+

[Craic]

B+

That's fair, I think. There's some glaring errors at times, but some of those are due to change in coordinators. Overall, with all the injuries and other issues this team has had, I think the coaches have done a good job keeping them together and on the right track. The other thing I like is the discipline this team seems to have. Very few penalties that aren't "working penalties." I consider things like pass interference, holding, etc., "working penalties" because they happen in the middle of the action, and often times, are purposed gambles. There's been very few dead-ball penalties, or penalties on account of head-hunting or hitting a defenseless receiver (proof positive that yes, in fact, you can still hit hard in the NFL, as long as you do it legally).

[zulater]

I can't go any higher than B- on Tomlin as I think he was saved from himself by Vick getting hurt against the Cardinals. Save that injury we're at best 5-5 right now, because by his own admission he wasn't going to pull out Vick despite the worst qb play ever witnessed without injury. If Vick is the back up in the Raiders game chances are that one is a loss as well. Also his stubbornness with Boykin is maddening as well. One other negative move signing Jacoby Jones and worse yet not cutting him already. Mark my word if he continues to return kicks he will lose this team a game in short order. We were lucky he didn't blow the Browns or Raiders game with his inability to catch the damn ball.

Haley gets a B-. Under utilizing LeVeon Bell against the Chiefs cost us seriously that game. Keeping the ball out of LeVeon's hands on several crucial plays against the Ravens went a long way in sealing that loss.

Butler B+. I think he's doing wonders with what he has.

[Steelman]

My offhand grade would also be B+ overall, but not equally across the board. I'm not keen on grading theory, but individually I'd probably quick-fire their grades like so:

Tomlin I would give a B, I think he's done more good than bad things and has kept the team together and mostly forward-focused through difficult circumstances. I've seen some slight improvement in certain areas like roster and clock management at times, but also some real clunkers. He hasn't been consistent enough to warrant a higher grade.

Haley I would give a C+, but that may be influenced by personal opinion than actual results. All told, accounting for injuries/suspensions, the overall output has been pretty good, but I feel most of the time it's in spite of Haley.

Butler I would give an A-, I think he's done a great job styling the defensive scheme more closely to his personnel which has helped mask severe weaknesses and highlight a few strengths. Butler, IMO, is the equalizer here, his work improves the overall grade of the three.


PS NOTE: Upon further reflection I would probably lower all of the grades by a full point, but my thoughts about each are true to how I see it now. If you'd asked me four weeks ago, Tomlin would probably have a D and Haley a D-.

[steelreserve]

Tomlin: C+
Haley: C+
Butler: B+

I give a lot of credit to Butler for making the most out of a defense filled with obvious holes. Aside from the season opener, I think he's taken exactly the right approach by gambling enough to create some big plays, but without making stupid gambles.

Tomlin I guess has been OK, but had a few bad judgment errors, which unfortunately are characteristic rather than uncharacteristic at this point. Probably could've been a solid B if not for that and the favorites/doghouse bullshit that I think has made the secondary worse. I also put it on him for sticking with players well past the time when we should've realized they're ineffective, either on an in-game or season-long basis.

Haley would probably also be a solid B or B+ for his performance when the offense is at full strength. But the Haley Turtle was absolutely killing us when we had any quarterback not named Ben starting the game. I know both backup QBs have their own limitations, but we found a way to implement a gameplan that magnified their weaknesses instead of compensating for them. Since that was a third of the season, that's significant. At other times, I think we're guilty of trying too hard to be clever and instead wind up outsmarting ourselves. I think the fact that we scored 30 points when Ben came in against the Browns, with no gameplan other than line up in the shotgun and wing it, speaks volumes.

[teegre]

Tomlin: Mistakes were made, but being 6-4 without Bell for four games, without Bryant for four games, and without a healthy BB for six games deserves some acknowledgment. A-

Haley: He hadn't had all the pieces, but even when he did, some playcalls were infuriating. B

Butler: Fifth is points allowed with that secondary...??? A+

[86WARD]

Tomlin has made some dopey calls but he's also made some good calls that could've gone horribly wrong. But as teegre has written, Tomlin has this team at 6-4 right now and he should be in the conversation for coach of the year. At times Ihate the guy, at times I like him. I would have to give him a solid B so far.

Haley has also made some good calls, some drive killers but for the most part, he's been pretty solid and the way he gets the offense going, I'd have to give him a B+.

Butler gets an A+. Not one person around here thought the defense was going to be half as good as they have been. Sure the back end has been questionable, but even through that, he defense has been more than solid.

I'd like to throw Danny Smith in this conversation. I give him a D+. Although his coverage units have been good, his return units have been equally bad. Actually, I'd say they've been worse. This guy has gotten a pass long enough in my book and should've left before LeBeau hit the road. Year after year, the returns have been putrid and it's not like the team doesn't have talent in that department. Is nice to hear he stays after practice with guys and looks like such a good teacher during training camp...but guess what, he shits the bed on game day. For that, he gets this grade.

Munchak. A+. Odds on favorite to be Valedictorian.

[ALLD]

Munchak gets an A and Skip butler deserves a B+ with a defense that has more holes than a box of donuts. Haley made some really stupid trick play calls and Tomlin will forever be known as the coach who won a SB with Cowher's players.

[st33lersguy]

I think everyone gets a B given that what they have gotten out of what they have. It's not perfect but overall, I think the coaching staff has done really well in keeping this team afloat with all the injuries that have occurred

[fansince'76]

Tomlin will forever be known as the coach who won a SB with Cowher's players.

Despite arguably the biggest play in said SB being made by a guy that Cowher cut 3 times and then did nothing but rot on the bench behind Porter for the remainder of the time Cowher was in town.

[Craic]

Despite arguably the biggest play in said SB being made by a guy that Cowher cut 3 times and then did nothing but rot on the bench behind Porter for the remainder of the time Cowher was in town.

Not to mention suffered with an O line fiasco Cowher and Company left him.

[Dissolv]

How can people grade Butler with less than an A? I don't understand what they expect from a coach given what he has to work with. In fact, I'd say that it is a much greater achievement to bring up a mediocre group than to cruise control to wins with dominant talent. He turned the Defence around, made the scheme aggressive again, has them forcing turnovers -- all with a rather motley crew.

Haley I am seeing as a B-. He had to adjust the gameplan significantly to compensate for truly hideous QB talent. Heck he has been without Bell, MB, Pouncy, and Ben for a huge chunk of the year. Not to mention at least one win stolen by a craptastic kicker. His unsexy turtle game plan actually did win us some games, and kept others close. On the other hand, the offence just cant' seem to turn it on consistently for a game, and no matter how much Butler has disguised the D's weaknesses, there is no way to clear the Big Game without some big games from the O. We will go as far as the offence can carry us and no further. They have to find ways to score 21+ points every game no matter who is on the field.

Tomlin has managed adversity well, got us to the bye week with a 6-4 record, good enough for the 5th seed. Most teams would have looked more like 2-8 with our personnel woes, so he gets a solid B. Points from his winning effort were deducted for bringing on Vick in the first place, and also Scobee (although no one expected him to suck quite that hard that I knew). But its tough to judge HC in my mind, until the season is over. But come February we might just be looking back at this time period as the "he led us through the wilderness" phase of the year. Even if we just get more of the same, that still leaves us with a winning record and a playoff berth with a LOT of lost talent. A worthy effort for any Head Coach. Heck, even his time management seemed to be improving a bit this year.


Dissolv

[Steeldude]

How can people grade Butler with less than an A?

Probably because the defense isn't that good. Blake remains a starter. Boykin rides the bench. Jarvis Jones receives too many snaps. Are those "A moves"? The defense looks lost at times. Look no further than the Patriots' game.

[86WARD]

Probably because the defense isn't that good. Blake remains a starter. Boykin rides the bench. Jarvis Jones receives too many snaps. Are those "A moves"? The defense looks lost at times. Look no further than the Patriots' game.

That's all true, but there have been a lot of positives and the defense is far and away above what we thought it would be before the season started.

[Dissolv]

Probably because the defense isn't that good. Blake remains a starter. Boykin rides the bench. Jarvis Jones receives too many snaps. Are those "A moves"? The defense looks lost at times. Look no further than the Patriots' game.

Rating the coach = how well he does his job. It isn't the same as rating the defence. Clearly Butler has had a major positive impact on our "no-name" defence, and knocking him in grade because he has worse raw material to start with doesn't make any sense.

Well, it actually sounds like a lot of bosses that I have worked for. "I'm going to give you less resources and I expect the same standard of performance, oh, and get it done faster too: :-P Fact is, he is doing better that Dick Lebeau, a HoF player and maybe also coach someday with pretty much the same guys on the field. But sure, meh -- B minus. That's a lazy analysis. Heck why not C+ because we give up so many yards :-(


Dissolv


Dissolv

[Rotorhead]

Sorry but I just have to say Defense and Offense is spelled with an S. That out of the way, I agree with Dissolv, Butler has made the defense much better. Better than anyone else thought. I would give him an A. Haley I would give a B+, only for the drive killing stupid calls he has done this season. Tomilin, starting with an A, deduct for clock management issues and Vick gives him a B-. I mean, name one other team that could lose their QB for 4 games this season, 2 of their top 4 offensive weapons for half the season (give or take), lose the backup QB and basically play with 2 4th stringers and still be 6-4 (and if it weren't for Scobee we could be 7-3 and possibly 8-2). Put it this way, take Brady away for the 4 games he was supposed to be suspended and they have at least 2 losses, Bengals minus Red and they lose all 4 games. Denver is the only team that would have benefited from losing their starting QB.

[Hawkman]

Probably because the defense isn't that good. Blake remains a starter. Boykin rides the bench. Jarvis Jones receives too many snaps. Are those "A moves"? The defense looks lost at times. Look no further than the Patriots' game.

Sorry, but using the Pats game as a "standard" for this defense's performance doesn't work for me. It was the first regular season game for the new DC and a number of players. Things have changed and improved since then. Sure there are times when defenders still look lost, but top ten in rushing defense and points allowed and turnovers (I think), is pretty strong for a first year DC.

[teegre]

top ten in rushing defense and points allowed and turnovers (I think), is pretty strong for a first year DC.

You are correct.

Points allowed: 5th
Turnovers: 4th

[polamalubeast]

You are correct.

Points allowed: 5th
Turnovers: 4th

And this is with a awful secondary!

[teegre]

And this is with a awful secondary!

Exactly.

Here's an analogy...

My my wife is a kindergarten teacher. Child A came in reading at a 1st grade level, and Child B couldn't even write his name. At the end of the year, Child A was reading at a 2nd grade level, and Child B had (somehow) made it to grade level.

Ultimately, Child B was not as "good" as Child A, but come on: getting Child B to grade level was where the real teaching occurred.

SUMMATION:
Butler was given a kindergartener (secondary) that not only couldn't write his own first name, the kid couldn't even hold a pencil.

[ALLD]

Are you saying that Brandon Boykin needs a coach to take him to the bathroom to go make?

[86WARD]

Boykin can't wipe his own ass. Therefore, he can't play CB. I get it now.

[Steeldude]

That's all true, but there have been a lot of positives and the defense is far and away above what we thought it would be before the season started.

I agree, but I wouldn't give him an A.

[86WARD]

I agree, but I wouldn't give him an A.

I have him an A+ because my expectations of this defense were extremely low. They are at a level now where I never thought they would be this season.

[Dissolv]

Sorry but I just have to say Defense and Offense is spelled with an S.

Yeah, I keep going with the auto-correct on this thing. Maybe I have it set to UK spelling?? I'll figure it out. :-)

In the meantime, Butler is a clear A on coaching performance. Unless your standard to have a top 5 or maybe top 3 defense no matter what the coach was handed to work with. If that is the case, then I've got to question the validity of the metrics employed......


Dissolv

[polamalubeast]

What is your grade on Tomlin,Haley and Butler for the regular season?

[Mojouw]

Haley - A. I mean look at that offense. Quibble with play calls and question the tactics, but the results speak for themselves

Butler - B+. Made chicken salad out of chicken shit for stretches of the season, but sometimes he called of the blitzes a bit too much.

Tomlin - B. Kept the team together through adversity. Made some questionable roster decisions and his in game aggression sometimes leaves me scratching my head, but few coaches have demonstrated that they could have provided similar results in the same circumstances.

[Shoes]

Haley - A. I mean look at that offense. Quibble with play calls and question the tactics, but the results speak for themselves

Butler - B+. Made chicken salad out of chicken shit for stretches of the season, but sometimes he called of the blitzes a bit too much.

Tomlin - B. Kept the team together through adversity. Made some questionable roster decisions and his in game aggression sometimes leaves me scratching my head, but few coaches have demonstrated that they could have provided similar results in the same circumstances.

I can agree with this. I would have put haley at a B+ with some of his play calling, but he has extended Ben's career. I do have a hard time thinking other coaches would continue to play Blake as Tomlin has tho.

[Mojouw]

I can agree with this. I would have put haley at a B+ with some of his play calling, but he has extended Ben's career. I do have a hard time thinking other coaches would continue to play Blake as Tomlin has tho.

Tomlin seems good for one wall punchingly frustrating roster decision per year. Justin Brown, Blake, and whomever else that I can't remember. But this year's actually seems to matter. I believe there is or was something going on behind the scenes that will never be brought to the fans knowledge. But that is just my kinda out there theory.