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Thread: Unlucky Steelers, players who never quite reached greatness due to time or circumstance

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    Unlucky Steelers, players who never quite reached greatness due to time or circumstance

    This thread concerns Steelers who either had great talent that was never quite realized or were within grasp of a great moment only to have it slip away into the ether. Whether the cause of falling short was self inflicted or was a matter of bad timing or just rotten luck, these are players that came so close to being special as Steelers but didn't quite get there.

    So on with the stories, and sorry if the opening paragraph was a bit redundant.

    1. Joe Gilliam. Ask any Steeler of the times if this guy had the talent and you would get a resounding yes. The man could do everything a pocket passer is required to do and then some. He could throw every pass with authority. He could run, but that was never his plan, he would stay with the play and go through his progressions as long as possible. Probably longer than Bradshaw ( at that point in his career) in fact.

    Now while you can point out that many of Joe's issues were self inflicted, I can't help but feel sorry for the guy on so many fronts. For one he was carrying the mantle of the black qb. No small thing at the time. His father was an outstanding qb for WV state University and was never given a chance to play qb in the NFL. Though he was offered a chance to play wr.(Joe Sr)

    The Pittsburgh Black Courier which was a national and possibly the most powerful periodical of the time in the black community made him the poster boy of the cause of black qb's. They made him the cover of the paper at least 10 times in 1974.

    Now if you don't think that was enough pressure, then there was the racist whites, who threatened he and his entire families life many times over. Throw this all at a young man who also had to deal with Chuck Noll. A guy Terry Bradshaw could barely handle. A lot on this young man's shoulders.

    According to Joe's mother and father Joe never did drugs prior to the 74 season. He was introduced to them during the course of that season and as is true with many who try heroin once you've gone there there's no path back. I think the enormous pressure he was under from so many sides proved to be too much in the end

    And along with all of that all in my opinion the biggest problem he had was he played in an era when qb's were expected to call their own plays. And Joe being in love with his arm ( and why shouldn't he have been? It was that damn good) called way too many passes for Chuck Noll's liking. He became his own worst enemy on the field strictly by not taking the easy way out and handing the ball to Franco 30 times a game. Don't believe me look at some of the box scores of the games when Terry was given the starting qb job back. One late season game against the Saints, Franco took 40 hand-offs from Terry.

    Put Joe in today's game with the eye in the sky calling the plays and he's likely saved from himself.

    Another thing to keep in mind is when Joe's play did start to falter there was this future Hall of Famer, dude by the name of Terry Bradshaw, the number one overall pick of the 69 draft waiting in the wings. So once gone the position never came available again. I've often wondered given the talent Joe flashed early in that 74 season, if he's on one of about 20 other teams with no future HOF'er sitting in the shadows would patience have been exercised and ultimately prevailed with Joe? It's also worth mentioning that Joe didn't turn 24 year old until Dec 29 of the 74 season. Back then the common thought was that qb's should be given 5 years to mature. Joe was given all of 6 games. And that's not intended as a knock on Noll. Just a reference to the circumstance of Terry Bradshaw waiting to emerge.

    To finish up, in my opinion Joe Gilliam would be recognized as one of the top 25 qb's to ever play the game if he had come along at the right time and gone to the right team.

    Next up Frank Lewis.
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

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    Re: Unlucky Steelers, players who never quite reached greatness due to time or circumstance

    Damn. Thought I might get some feed back on this? Oh well sometimes your hardest efforts go for naught. I suppose I'll leave this thread to die where it's at then.
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

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    Re: Unlucky Steelers, players who never quite reached greatness due to time or circumstance

    Very nice read, Zu. I liked Joe, its amazing the arm this guy had for such a thin framed man. Its too bad there wasn't help available like today for drug issues. Nice work!

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    Re: Unlucky Steelers, players who never quite reached greatness due to time or circumstance

    I like it. Good read. I have a guy that I think qualifies in a way according to the title of the thread. Personally I feel like he could've been great and it started that way...then just went downhill after a few seasons. I don't want to mention him yet in case he is on your list.


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    Re: Unlucky Steelers, players who never quite reached greatness due to time or circumstance

    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    I like it. Good read. I have a guy that I think qualifies in a way according to the title of the thread. Personally I feel like he could've been great and it started that way...then just went downhill after a few seasons. I don't want to mention him yet in case he is on your list.
    Please feel free to add on the list as you see fit. That goes for everyone.
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

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    Re: Unlucky Steelers, players who never quite reached greatness due to time or circumstance

    My guy isn't a popular guy around here but I truly believe if he was used properly, he could have been something special. Kordell Stewart. The bottom line, for me, is if he stayed "Slash", he would've been something really special. Teams weren't able to prepare for him. They didn't know what to do with him whether he was a WR, RB, QB...he pretty much ran the "wildcat" before the wildcat "arrived" to the NFL and he did it with a whole lot of success. As a wideout, Slash posted some ridiculous averages. In '95 he had 14 receptions for 235 yards and a TD. A 16.8 average. He was a game changer. '96 that continued as he posted 17 catches for 293, 3 TDs and a 17.2 average. Once he insisted on being a full time QB, once Cowher tried to puch him on the league as a full-tie QB and once he had a full season of tape on him, it was over.

    When O'Donnell left in 1996 and the Mike Tomczak experiment failed, 1997 led to Kordell dropping the "Slash" nickname and becoming a full time QB. He had a solid season passing for over 3000 yards, 21 TDs, 17 INTs. He added 476 yards on the ground and another 11 TDs...4 more than Jerome Bettis. The guy was looking like a legit threat...but now there was a full 16 games of tape on him as a QB...from there it went downhill. Aside from 2001, which was probably he best season as a QB, he was pretty awful as a full-time QB...and even that season was questionable. He was no where near bringing the excitement and energy he brought in 95, 96, 97 once he became a full-time QB. You can clearly see it in the stats below.



    Some say that when Chan Gailey left it hurt Stewart as a QB and an all around player. It's possible. Production went down with Sherman for a season in 98 and when Gilbride arrived in 1999 and 2000, Stewart was at his worst. There appeared to be some hope when Mularkey showed up in 2001, with what could be argued to be his best season as an NFL QB. He made the Pro Bowl, won a playoff game before losing to the Patriots. That success quickly dissipated in 2002 as he was benched for Tommy Maddox and wound up being his last season.


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    Re: Unlucky Steelers, players who never quite reached greatness due to time or circumstance

    I think Donnie Shell (5' 11" 190 LBS) could fit in here. He entered the NFL as an undrafted free agent in 1974 and helped the Steelers win 4 SB's.
    Troy and Ed Reed will see the HOF one day, I don't think Donnie Shell ever will. Shell seemed like a cross between Troy and Reed, but was better, hit harder and was far more durable, playing at a high level well into the 80's. From 1979 to 1984 he had at least 5 picks per season. He played in 201 games for the Steelers, second only to Mike Webster who played in 220. I remember him making many crushing hits on Earl Campbell. Shell was overshadowed by so many great players on the Steelers D in the 70's. He had 51 picks between 1974 & 1987.

    They just don't make them like this anymore!

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    Re: Unlucky Steelers, players who never quite reached greatness due to time or circumstance

    Mike Vrabel!
    Quote Originally Posted by XxKnightxX View Post
    We are not Buffalo, We are not Miami. We are the Steelers, we dont blow out teams, we cock tease for ratings and keep games close.

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    Re: Unlucky Steelers, players who never quite reached greatness due to time or circumstance

    Yep, if Kordell would have stayed a WR he would have had a huge career. He reminded me of a more athletic version of Cris Carter.
    Hater = Realist

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    Re: Unlucky Steelers, players who never quite reached greatness due to time or circumstance

    Louis Lipps.

    Had the misfortune of playing w/scrub QBs and a running team. If Marino had been drafted by the Steelers or Lipps played in Terry or Ben's era, he would have thrived.



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    Re: Unlucky Steelers, players who never quite reached greatness due to time or circumstance

    Limas Sweed. Seriously. Had absolutely no problem getting open, had no problem with the physicality of the game (see huge block on Corey Ivy). Certainly had all the physical tools. Seemed to develop a debilitating mental block early on when it came to catching the ball that just got worse and worse, and that was at least partially due to Tomlin and company mishandling him, IMO. After his first drop it seemed like it took forever for him to get another opportunity afterward and he was a mental wreck by that point.

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    Re: Unlucky Steelers, players who never quite reached greatness due to time or circumstance

    Quote Originally Posted by fansince'76 View Post
    Limas Sweed. Seriously. Had absolutely no problem getting open, had no problem with the physicality of the game (see huge block on Corey Ivy). Certainly had all the physical tools. Seemed to develop a debilitating mental block early on when it came to catching the ball that just got worse and worse, and that was at least partially due to Tomlin and company mishandling him, IMO. After his first drop it seemed like it took forever for him to get another opportunity afterward and he was a mental wreck by that point.
    That is a great choice.

    I've stated that if they were to redraft the 2008 draft, I'd take Sweed in R2 again. That's how much I liked the pick. I definitely thought that it was the steal of that draft.

    I'll disagree with one thing, though. Tomlin could have cut the guy, once Sweed started having mental issues. Instead, Tomlin sent to a psychologist, and paid for counseling for over a year. (It's very similar to how they handled Spence: they could have cut him, but they stuck by him and got him rehab.)

    Sweed is easily my biggest disappointment. Great choice.

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    Unlucky Steelers, players who never quite reached greatness due to time or ci...

    Quote Originally Posted by fansince'76 View Post
    Limas Sweed. Seriously. Had absolutely no problem getting open, had no problem with the physicality of the game (see huge block on Corey Ivy). Certainly had all the physical tools. Seemed to develop a debilitating mental block early on when it came to catching the ball that just got worse and worse, and that was at least partially due to Tomlin and company mishandling him, IMO. After his first drop it seemed like it took forever for him to get another opportunity afterward and he was a mental wreck by that point.
    There was one point he was poised to takeover the world...I Remember it well!!

    I loved the Sweed pick. It was my favorite pick of that draft. Didn't like the amending all pick and hated the Davis pick but the Sweed pick, in my mind, made up for those...


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    Re: Unlucky Steelers, players who never quite reached greatness due to time or ci...

    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    There was one point he was poised to takeover the world...I Remember it well!!
    So do I...


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    Re: Unlucky Steelers, players who never quite reached greatness due to time or circumstance

    Quote Originally Posted by tube517 View Post
    Louis Lipps.

    Had the misfortune of playing w/scrub QBs and a running team. If Marino had been drafted by the Steelers or Lipps played in Terry or Ben's era, he would have thrived.
    For sure! This is why I chose Lipps as my nickname. Lipps had it all except for a QB to get him the ball.

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    Re: Unlucky Steelers, players who never quite reached greatness due to time or circumstance

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    That is a great choice.

    I've stated that if they were to redraft the 2008 draft, I'd take Sweed in R2 again. That's how much I liked the pick. I definitely thought that it was the steal of that draft.

    I'll disagree with one thing, though. Tomlin could have cut the guy, once Sweed started having mental issues. Instead, Tomlin sent to a psychologist, and paid for counseling for over a year. (It's very similar to how they handled Spence: they could have cut him, but they stuck by him and got him rehab.)

    Sweed is easily my biggest disappointment. Great choice.
    Sweed would be my number two after Lipps. A lot of people don't remember that Sweed injured his wrist going into his final year at Texas. He re-injured the wrist and needed surgery which caused him to miss the rest of the year.

    I think his wrist was his problem with catching the ball. If anyone remembers, he was probably a top 15 pick before he got hurt. I don't think the inability to catch was mental at all, but more physical. I wonder if he had an issue with positioning his hand correctly and comfortably to adequately catch.

    He wasn't even able to catch on with two teams in the CFL. To me that is a physical problem, not a mental one.

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    Re: Unlucky Steelers, players who never quite reached greatness due to time or circumstance

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    That is a great choice.

    I've stated that if they were to redraft the 2008 draft, I'd take Sweed in R2 again. That's how much I liked the pick. I definitely thought that it was the steal of that draft.

    I'll disagree with one thing, though. Tomlin could have cut the guy, once Sweed started having mental issues. Instead, Tomlin sent to a psychologist, and paid for counseling for over a year. (It's very similar to how they handled Spence: they could have cut him, but they stuck by him and got him rehab.)

    Sweed is easily my biggest disappointment. Great choice.
    Quote Originally Posted by fansince'76 View Post
    Limas Sweed. Seriously. Had absolutely no problem getting open, had no problem with the physicality of the game (see huge block on Corey Ivy). Certainly had all the physical tools. Seemed to develop a debilitating mental block early on when it came to catching the ball that just got worse and worse, and that was at least partially due to Tomlin and company mishandling him, IMO. After his first drop it seemed like it took forever for him to get another opportunity afterward and he was a mental wreck by that point.
    What if Sweed had caught that pass in the AFC Championship game vs the Ravens? What if he caught that pass vs Cincy in the end zone the following year? Yes, it's a what if but those were the 2 big passes if I remember correctly that got everyone so down on him.



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    Re: Unlucky Steelers, players who never quite reached greatness due to time or circumstance

    This is easy.

    Barry Foster - Just lost his heart after he got his first big deal. Noll called him "the toughest player I have ever seen" (and then promptly never gave him playing time). Barry is never mentioned when the subject of good Steelers' RBs comes up. But at one point, he was 2nd in he NFL in rushing, only behind Emmitt Smith, if I recall correctly.

    Yancey Thigpen - when he was healthy - which was about half the time - he was a top 3 WR in the NFL. But his time was brief, in terms of playing time because he was always hurt and he left as a free agent (and I didn't cringe at all when he left because I knew he was due to be hurt all the next season and he was).

    Game time!

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    Re: Unlucky Steelers, players who never quite reached greatness due to time or circumstance

    Quote Originally Posted by tube517 View Post
    What if Sweed had caught that pass in the AFC Championship game vs the Ravens?

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    Re: Unlucky Steelers, players who never quite reached greatness due to time or circumstance

    Frank Lewis was a perfect example of a gifted player being at the wrong place at the wrong time. Of course he did get two SB rings so it wasn't all bad. Anyway getting to Lewis's story. He was the Steelers number 1 draft choice in 71. He had everything you want in a receiver, blazing speed, good hands, and ideal size. (6'1" 196 lbs big for the era) In his early years a combination of poor qb play and twitchy hamstrings led to 3 fairly unproductive seasons for Lewis. As he only started 13 games combined from 71-4 and had career totals of only 53 catches for 844 yards with 5 td's the Steelers approached the 74 draft with an eye to upgrading the receiver position. Which of course they did in the greatest draft haul in league history which included two hall of fame wr's in the body of Lynn Swann and John Stallworth. Frank went on to play 4 more seasons for the Steelers, with his personal highlight being the 76 yard td pass he caught from Bradshaw on the opening series of the divisional playoff game against the Colts in 76.

    The Steelers and Lewis parted ways after the 77 season after which Frank hooked on with the Bills. ( can't remember if he was traded or released to get there?) Anyway for the next 5 seasons Lewis was in the conversation for the best receiver in the game. He had two 1,0000 yard receiving seasons with the Bills, this in an era when that was extremely rare. Consider Swann never had a 1,000 season, yet me made 1st team All Pro two times.

    So in the end one's left wondering if Bradshaw had got his act together earlier or had Lewis had a little bit better luck with his health do the Steelers approach that 74 draft differently? And instead of Lynn Swann and Stallworth being inducted into the Hall of Fame would Frank Lewis had made it instead. Believe me when this guy finally got his chance in Buffalo he proved he was indeed a difference making player.


    Next up, Kendrell (Tinker) Bell.
    Last edited by zulater; 10-25-2015 at 08:42 PM.
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    Re: Unlucky Steelers, players who never quite reached greatness due to time or circumstance

    Quote Originally Posted by TeeTee View Post
    This is easy.

    Barry Foster - Just lost his heart after he got his first big deal. Noll called him "the toughest player I have ever seen" (and then promptly never gave him playing time). Barry is never mentioned when the subject of good Steelers' RBs comes up. But at one point, he was 2nd in he NFL in rushing, only behind Emmitt Smith, if I recall correctly.

    Yancey Thigpen - when he was healthy - which was about half the time - he was a top 3 WR in the NFL. But his time was brief, in terms of playing time because he was always hurt and he left as a free agent (and I didn't cringe at all when he left because I knew he was due to be hurt all the next season and he was).

    Game time!
    I thought of Foster too. He's one of my all-time favorites...he was leading the lead in rushing the last game of the season until Emmitt passed him during the 4:00 game.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler
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    Re: Unlucky Steelers, players who never quite reached greatness due to time or circumstance

    Tim "drugs are great" Worley and Bam " I really really like drugs" Morris.


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    Re: Unlucky Steelers, players who never quite reached greatness due to time or circumstance

    Quote Originally Posted by TeeTee View Post
    This is easy.

    Barry Foster - Just lost his heart after he got his first big deal. Noll called him "the toughest player I have ever seen" (and then promptly never gave him playing time). Barry is never mentioned when the subject of good Steelers' RBs comes up. But at one point, he was 2nd in he NFL in rushing, only behind Emmitt Smith, if I recall correctly.
    To me, Barry Foster was the best back (talent wise) the Steelers have had since Harris until Bell came along.

    Bettis is a hall of famer, but he will always be severely overrated to me.

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    Re: Unlucky Steelers, players who never quite reached greatness due to time or circumstance

    Quote Originally Posted by lipps83 View Post
    To me, Barry Foster was the best back (talent wise) the Steelers have had since Harris until Bell came along.

    Bettis is a hall of famer, but he will always be severely overrated to me.
    What did I just read? I can't wrap my head around that statement. Jerome Bettis had the best feet of any big back ever. There is no world where Jerome Bettis is over rated. In his prime, everyone in the stadium knew he was getting the ball, and it did not matter. Not. In. The. Least. He still would get his yards.

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    Re: Unlucky Steelers, players who never quite reached greatness due to time or circumstance

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    What did I just read? I can't wrap my head around that statement. Jerome Bettis had the best feet of any big back ever. There is no world where Jerome Bettis is over rated. In his prime, everyone in the stadium knew he was getting the ball, and it did not matter. Not. In. The. Least. He still would get his yards.
    Every fan has a player they feel has been overrated. Bettis is mine. He was good, but I won't consider him great. Great dude, certainly a fan favorite, but overrated as a player in my eyes. You mention his feet, but I can't name a back I saw trip over his own feet more than Bettis did. You need one or two yards, he is your man and you would be hard pressed to find someone better. You need 10 yards, better find someone else. That isn't a great back, in my eyes. It is a back limited in what contributions can be made.

    He had two great years, 96 and 97. Other than that, meh. It was the style of offense that was played as well as a great offensive line that lead directly to his success. Leroy Thompson, Eric Pegram, Bam Morris, Barry Foster, Richard Huntley, Amos Zereoue, Chris Muafatamamalallalala all looked decent in that offense that Cowher ran.

    Not one of them had any sort of success once they left the Steelers. They all fell out of the league within a few years of signing with a new team.

    The system made the player 100% here.

    How many times did we hear of Bettis losing his starting job? Quite a few. To Huntley, to Zereoue and to Duce Staley. He eventually got the job back, but a great player should never be in that position in the first place. They shouldn't need to be motivated.

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    Re: Unlucky Steelers, players who never quite reached greatness due to time or circumstance

    Quote Originally Posted by tube517 View Post
    What if Sweed had caught that pass in the AFC Championship game vs the Ravens? What if he caught that pass vs Cincy in the end zone the following year? Yes, it's a what if but those were the 2 big passes if I remember correctly that got everyone so down on him.
    Alas...

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    Re: Unlucky Steelers, players who never quite reached greatness due to time or circumstance

    On the Bettis thing. Sounds like your thinking too much of old late career Jerome. When he first came over from the Rams he used to bust long runs often. You can have all kinds of opinions but there just isn't a reality where Bettis wasn't one of the best backs ever. Last of a breed. We will likely never see the era of big RBs return.


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    Re: Unlucky Steelers, players who never quite reached greatness due to time or circumstance

    Bam Morris had a promising career ahead of him...he probably would have been a Super Bowl MVP had Neil O'Donnell not thrown two INTs...it was either 6-Pound Bam or Andre Hastings...


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    Re: Unlucky Steelers, players who never quite reached greatness due to time or circumstance

    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    Bam Morris had a promising career ahead of him...he probably would have been a Super Bowl MVP had Neil O'Donnell not thrown two INTs...it was either 6-Pound Bam or Andre Hastings...
    We had Barry "Bananas" Foster and Byron "Bam" Morris in the 1994 season. They were both gone within a year.



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    Re: Unlucky Steelers, players who never quite reached greatness due to time or circumstance

    And that could've been one of the best backfield so far all time...


    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler
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