Steeler fans protest Vick, not going to games

[GoSlash27]

I respect your stance Slash. And I wont try to talk you out of it. But I will tell you why I'm not with you on this. Because while what Vick did was reprehensible he did in fact pay his debt to society. He didn't try to pull a shady -Brady and out-maneuver or manipulate the system. He lost a lot. He probably paid a steeper price than anyone ever has for that particular crime. And afterwards he paid off all of his creditors in full. Unlike many who declare bankruptcy who end up paying as little as 10 cents on a dollar Vick paid his debts in full.

http://nypost.com/2014/12/17/michael...m-debt-report/

Everything this man has done since getting out of jail speaks of someone who not only paid their debt to society but came out the other end a better person. I have no problem with the Steelers signing this man.

But again I respect your right to see it differently.

Zu,
Thanks. I appreciate that.
I totally get the attitude about him having paid his debt and worked to remake himself into a positive force, and I don't look down on anybody for having that sort of forgiveness in their heart.
But for me, it doesn't work that way. I wish him well and don't begrudge him making a living playing pro ball.... but no matter what he does or how hard he works, he will *never* be worthy to wear the Steelers uniform.
It's not just the nature of the crime itself (although it's pretty darn horrific), it's the fact that he's a convicted felon. I don't want the Steelers to be the sort of team that accepts those under any circumstance. AFAIC there are no second chances to be on this team. If you act like a knucklehead and go to prison, there are some things you just plain don't get to do after that. Being a Pittsburgh Steeler is one of them.

Sorry and thanks for the kind words!
-Slashy

[fansince'76]

Okay, I miss-understood what they meant by "The League", however I am sure the NFL cannot be happy about reopening this hornets nest of bad publicity for the NFL, with all the other things going on at this time.

The NFL has a much bigger mess on its hands at the moment. And if Brady gets his case thrown out, they may as well open the floodgates, because EVERYONE who gets suspended/fined by the NFL from there on out will wind up on appeal in federal court.

Besides, Vick is Goodell's "fair-haired boy":

"I do believe we need more success stories,'' Goodell said of Vick. "Too much of our society looks for people to fail. I'm not doing this because I felt sorry for Michael. I felt that because he'd been accountable, he had taken responsibility, and he wanted to make a positive difference. But he needed help getting there. That's why we did sort of a 'stage' return ... But Michael said to me, he said my number one goal is to make you proud and ... win that Super Bowl and be that MVP. We talk about that every once in a while. And it could happen. It would be a pretty cool moment.''

http://www.si.com/more-sports/2011/0...uper-bowl-week

It also bears noting that Goodell said that right after completely trashing Roethlisberger during Super Bowl week back in 2011.

If the negative pub Vick (still) generates didn't matter to Goodell almost 5 years ago, it shouldn't matter now...

[zulater]

Zu,
Thanks. I appreciate that.
I totally get the attitude about him having paid his debt and worked to remake himself into a positive force, and I don't look down on anybody for having that sort of forgiveness in their heart.
But for me, it doesn't work that way. I wish him well and don't begrudge him making a living playing pro ball.... but no matter what he does or how hard he works, he will *never* be worthy to wear the Steelers uniform.
It's not just the nature of the crime itself (although it's pretty darn horrific), it's the fact that he's a convicted felon. I don't want the Steelers to be the sort of team that accepts those under any circumstance. AFAIC there are no second chances to be on this team. If you act like a knucklehead and go to prison, there are some things you just plain don't get to do after that. Being a Pittsburgh Steeler is one of them.

Sorry and thanks for the kind words!
-Slashy

Well when you put it that way I almost want to join you. But I wont. I'm weak. I'd be Jonesing for the Steelers within 5 days if I tried to make such a principled stand.

Seriously, what you laid out there I cant argue against. I admire your stand.

Sort of like Notre Dame, Stanford or the Military Academies in college you hold the Steelers to a higher standard than the rest of the pack. I like to as well. And while I can see where this violates your standards he slips in under mine because I think redemption is a valuable human commodity.
Anyway thank you for clarifying your stance. I do think there's a lot of opportunist's jumping on to the anti - Vick bandwagon. Just using him and the situation to draw attention to themselves or publicize their cause. But it's clear that you're not of that ilk. Your ideals are to be admired.

[ETL]

Yep - no way the Steelers should ever deal with convicted felons. Hell if Martha Stewart wanted to associated herself with this team - I would be totally against it and sell my season tickets because I would rather die than have a CONVICTED FELON - any Convicted Felon be associated with the Steelers.

Don't you know? My self worth is totally tied to the Steelers. If they have a blemish then I have a blemish. I just can't have that. I am suffering because people are looking down on me because my team is associated with a CONVICTED FELON.

I can't even stand it when one of the Steelers gets a finger injury that forms a ball of pus at the tip because those things are called FELONS also and it just comes too close to someone thinking there are felons on the Steelers.

Yep. No felons for me. Whatsoever. They might as well just crawl and die. Michael Vick and Martha Stewart - just do me a favor and kill yourselves because in my ideal world - you would be ostracized and made a pariah and excluded and discriminated against for the rest of your lives!!!

[hawaiiansteeler]

Yep - no way the Steelers should ever deal with convicted felons. Hell if Martha Stewart wanted to associated herself with this team - I would be totally against it and sell my season tickets because I would rather die than have a CONVICTED FELON - any Convicted Felon be associated with the Steelers.

Don't you know? My self worth is totally tied to the Steelers. If they have a blemish then I have a blemish. I just can't have that. I am suffering because people are looking down on me because my team is associated with a CONVICTED FELON.

I can't even stand it when one of the Steelers gets a finger injury that forms a ball of pus at the tip because those things are called FELONS also and it just comes too close to someone thinking there are felons on the Steelers.

Yep. No felons for me. Whatsoever. They might as well just crawl and die. Michael Vick and Martha Stewart - just do me a favor and kill yourselves because in my ideal world - you would be ostracized and made a pariah and excluded and discriminated against for the rest of your lives!!!

if Martha Stewart played for us our new team colors could be black and a lovely yellow saffron...

[86WARD]

if Martha Stewart played for us our new team colors could be black and a lovely yellow saffron...

I'd protest it.

[hawaiiansteeler]

I'd protest it.

maybe we'll just make Martha Stewart our equipment manager then.

she could show us how to get those nasty dirt stains out of our uniforms using only seltzer water and lemon juice....

[Butch]

Revisionist's history. Vick did NOT admit blame and take accountability. He pleaded innocent. Gave all kinds of excuses and tried to lie his way out of it. Now you are changing the story to Vick manning up and coming clean for this? Not until he was found guilty in court and served 18 months in prison. And like this lady said, anyone who could EVER do such heinous acts to dogs doesn't have the ability to actually, truly become sincerely enlightened. He just says the right stuff now and obviously won't go back to killing dogs at this point. He was coached up on what to do and how to act.

All that being said, I don't have a problem with the signing, personally. I am pretty sure he isn't going to start another dog fighting ring. But I respect the right of others to not forgive him. My bigger concern is that if he does play, he seems to get a concussion if someone breathes on him, and drops the ball if he is touched. But he is better than Jones..........but everyone is. Every back up I have seen play this preseason looks better than Jones. Even rookies. That is really bad.

I went back and checked and you are right about him not admitting guilt, so on that I stand corrected. He did however pay his debt, and as pointed out by others has, since being convicted, took ownership of his actions. As for the lady's accusations of him never being able to be completely enlightened that is an opinion and one that I personally don't share. It is easy for her to pass judgement, but again is she without sin and are her sins forgiven? If he was simply coached up and saying the "right" things then why did he pay back so much more of his debt than most or what was realistically expected? I like to think he was educated on the errors of his ways and chose to change his ways. At what point in time does he prove that he is a changed man and not simply a guy who was coached up?

As for your opinion of him as a backup QB that is something I can understand. It's not like the other choices were much better. Batch wasn't exactly lighting it up in Detroit, but when he came to us he held his own when we needed him to start. Yes he had injuries, but he did win a few games for us here and there. Hopefully the same will be said of Vic down the line, but we will see.

FWIW- Our last Super Bowl MVP who shined brightly when he was with us, faded into obscurity when he left us. The only reason I bring this up is because sometimes a player can play better or worse in a different environment/organization. I am hoping that Vic plays better with us.

[Butch]

I am pro-Vick signing... I don't like what he did - - but, he has already paid a huge price and faces consequences every day - - his earning power was destroyed, his reputation was shot, he served time, he has done an abundance of community service projects, and he ran the gauntlet to get back to playing ball - - a game he loves, and has an amount of skill playing... Granted, he probably would have problems finding a job just about anywhere else... The fact that he persevered, shows that he has a lot of qualities that we should accept gladly because they are Steelers qualities....

Steelers fans are unique - - when we have a bad game or a bad day, I absolutely hate coming in here because we are beating each other over the head and are asking for the heads of the coaches, the players and whoever doesn't meet the standard of the day.... We talk about fan bases from other teams getting down on us.... Hell, they are usually kinder and more well-mannered that we are to each other..... We have dealt with bad boys here and there, but the Powers that be, have a pretty good track record - - and I think that they have used the 'straighten up and fly right' solution several times in the last few years to either say bye-bye, or to welcome some back with open arms.... I just wish our people weren't so damn vocal and so visible - - I don't remember this uproar with the Eagles, nor the Jets.... I am wearing my colors proudly, but I think that the past couple of days has dropped the Steelers a few notches in the amount of respect we have always had... And this is not because we signed Vick - - it is because a bunch of people are acting like jerks....

If you don't want to be a Steelers fan, then bye-bye... No need to call attention to your actions by broadcasting them to the world.... Burn your shirts - - and don't expect to be welcomed back with open arms when we are heading to a February game this season and all the wagons are filled with band members who have been here through the whole season and through alot of the bad years..... In my 72 years, I do remember wearing Steelers colors when we had a few 0-12 seasons.... Not fun, but they are my team....

EXACTLY THIS!!! While I was not there before the 70's and they were the perennial losers, I agree with everything you wrote. I have been a loyal fan since. Excellent post.

[GBMelBlount]

I am pro-Vick signing... I don't like what he did - - but, he has already paid a huge price and faces consequences every day - - his earning power was destroyed, his reputation was shot, he served time, he has done an abundance of community service projects, and he ran the gauntlet to get back to playing ball - - a game he loves, and has an amount of skill playing... Granted, he probably would have problems finding a job just about anywhere else... The fact that he persevered, shows that he has a lot of qualities that we should accept gladly because they are Steelers qualities....

Steelers fans are unique - - when we have a bad game or a bad day, I absolutely hate coming in here because we are beating each other over the head and are asking for the heads of the coaches, the players and whoever doesn't meet the standard of the day.... We talk about fan bases from other teams getting down on us.... Hell, they are usually kinder and more well-mannered that we are to each other..... We have dealt with bad boys here and there, but the Powers that be, have a pretty good track record - - and I think that they have used the 'straighten up and fly right' solution several times in the last few years to either say bye-bye, or to welcome some back with open arms.... I just wish our people weren't so damn vocal and so visible - - I don't remember this uproar with the Eagles, nor the Jets.... I am wearing my colors proudly, but I think that the past couple of days has dropped the Steelers a few notches in the amount of respect we have always had... And this is not because we signed Vick - - it is because a bunch of people are acting like jerks....

If you don't want to be a Steelers fan, then bye-bye... No need to call attention to your actions by broadcasting them to the world.... Burn your shirts - - and don't expect to be welcomed back with open arms when we are heading to a February game this season and all the wagons are filled with band members who have been here through the whole season and through alot of the bad years..... In my 72 years, I do remember wearing Steelers colors when we had a few 0-12 seasons.... Not fun, but they are my team....

[86WARD]

maybe we'll just make Martha Stewart our equipment manager then.

she could show us how to get those nasty dirt stains out of our uniforms using only seltzer water and lemon juice....

"Neat."

[86WARD]

FWIW- Our last Super Bowl MVP who shined brightly when he was with us, faded into obscurity when he left us. The only reason I bring this up is because sometimes a player can play better or worse in a different environment/organization. I am hoping that Vic plays better with us.

I'm kinda more hoping that Vick doesn't play with us....maybe in a 2-point package?

[CaSteel]

The Steelers are my team, I will watch the games,cheer like a lunatic and wear my Steeler gear but I will NOT accept Micheal Vicks "Apology". He is sorry he got caught not sorry he did those unspeakable things to a helpless animal. A person that does what he did to a living,breathing creature does not simply change the way they feel inside instead they find out what they need to do or say to get the pressure off of themselves.

[Count Steeler]

The Steelers are my team, I will watch the games,cheer like a lunatic and wear my Steeler gear but I will NOT accept Micheal Vicks "Apology". He is sorry he got caught not sorry he did those unspeakable things to a helpless animal. A person that does what he did to a living,breathing creature does not simply change the way they feel inside instead they find out what they need to do or say to get the pressure off of themselves.

I'm glad you have a truth detector and can figure out a person from a far. While he did not fess up right away, his actions since being in prison do not reflect an individual that is not truly contrite. He has almost paid off all his creditors, instead of choosing the easier, more common path of bankruptcy. He continues to this day helping out at humane societies and animal shelters.

And he can still toss the football.

[Pittsburgher]

Should I remind you of a certain #7 whom has embarrassed the Steelers franchise not once but twice in two seperate offseasons due to his own stupidity, but we still cheer for to this day?

Oh for the love of pete! This is trucks and you're talking sports car. Vick was charged, convicted, paid fines and did time and community service. #7, despite a ravenous NC prosecutor looking to find ANYTHING against him, could NOT even find enough to officially charge him! But go ahead and keep crucifying him for NOT COMMITTING a crime.

[ALLD]

Vick looks like an excellent pick up at this point.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Vick looks like an excellent pick up at this point.

I think all Pittsburgh Steelers fans can at least agree on one thing:

we'll all feel better about Michael Vick coming into the game if something happens to Ben than if Landry Jones trotted out there...

[TD's & Beer]

Vick looks like an excellent pick up at this point.

He has a helluva arm, that's for sure - the way he flicks a 60 yarder like it's nothing

[Craic]

Zu,
Thanks. I appreciate that.
I totally get the attitude about him having paid his debt and worked to remake himself into a positive force, and I don't look down on anybody for having that sort of forgiveness in their heart.
But for me, it doesn't work that way. I wish him well and don't begrudge him making a living playing pro ball.... but no matter what he does or how hard he works, he will *never* be worthy to wear the Steelers uniform.
It's not just the nature of the crime itself (although it's pretty darn horrific), it's the fact that he's a convicted felon. I don't want the Steelers to be the sort of team that accepts those under any circumstance. AFAIC there are no second chances to be on this team. If you act like a knucklehead and go to prison, there are some things you just plain don't get to do after that. Being a Pittsburgh Steeler is one of them.

Sorry and thanks for the kind words!
-Slashy

I can respect your stand, especially since it isn't about Vick but rather, about what it means to be a Steeler (and in that sense, you show a sincerity in allowing a man to redeem himself).

I do disagree with you, however. I think part of being a great team with great character is taking a player who had a bad past but paid his debts and has stayed clean, and showing grace to him. Note how we stayed away from him for years until we knew he could stay clean. I think that's a vitally important point. I also believe it important to note the Steelers' position is not "You cannot be a felon and play on this team" but rather, "You cannot have a bad reputation for stupidity, or do stupid things and stay on this team." Vick no longer has a bad reputation (the current Vick—everyone agrees he's staying clean of trouble), that's why I'm okay with the signing.

Oh for the love of pete! This is trucks and you're talking sports car. Vick was charged, convicted, paid fines and did time and community service. #7, despite a ravenous NC prosecutor looking to find ANYTHING against him, could NOT even find enough to officially charge him! But go ahead and keep crucifying him for NOT COMMITTING a crime.

Oh for the Love of Pete. You misread his post and reacted. @Edman said "Embarrassed" the team twice, that Ben put himself in those situations. No one can argue that putting yourself in a situation, twice, where you can be accused of rape is a good thing. The discussion is about what it takes to be a Steelers player, and that is based, at least here, on what we perceive as reputation. The comparison is very fair on that front, as they both drew a ton of negative press and perceptions for whatever actions they committed.

[HollywoodSteel]

Slash, I also respect that you have a moral code and stand by it. I won't try to talk you out of your decision, I just want to point out something you might not have thought about much, and it has nothing to do with Vick and is horrific crimes. It's more about nostalgia clouding reality:

A player from the golden age of Art's angelic Steelers (Ernie Holmes) shot at a police helicopter. Think about that for a second. He was actually trying to hit it with absolutely NO REGARD FOR INNOCENT HUMAN LIFE. What if he'd hit it? What if that helicopter crashed on more people?

Is that not the type of thing that crosses your line? And how did Art respond? Did he cut the player that day and work hard to see that he goes to prison? No. Holmes got five years probation, rather than the years in prison you or I would have gotten for the same act. Could it be because Art, and the NFL, had a hand in it? Could it be that NFL franchises protected their own interests over some silly moral line like attempted murder. Could it be that Art was a better man than most, but also served his own interests, sometimes on the bad side of your own moral line, that if crossed would morally compel you to walk away from your fandom?

That's just one example that you know happened. I've heard stories about other things that would most definitely cross your line of tolerance (and I'd be crossing my own moral line to discuss anything I've ever been told in confidence). But if your conscious is troubled by doubt, you should go drinking with Terry Bradshaw or any other of the untarnished by sin Steelers of that golden age and see how much they'll tell you. If your moral code doesn't compel you to work too hard at investigating that, then watch the movie North Dallas 40. It was more or less about the Cowboys of the 70s, and it was a pretty tame window into the general depravity and 'get away with anything' attitude of players on EVERY NFL TEAM of that era. That includes the players on a certain team that partied HARD in New Orleans right before the Super Bowl (that they won anyway).

I'm not trying to mess with your memories, and if you NEED to believe that the Steelers were the one pure team in an era where the public had almost no knowledge of what really went on with players' personal lives, then by all means, hold tight to those memories and belief that "Art would never tolerate..." But the Steelers of that era were not great because of moral fiber. They were great because of great (and probably some lucky) drafting combined with great coaching. The Steelers practiced harder and better than most of their rivals, and that was all Chuck Noll.

The real difference between the glorious bygone era and today is that every nugget of information about a player's personal life wasn't all over the internet back then. You were told what the franchise wanted you to know and no more. Reporters back then wouldn't print half the things they really knew about because they were part of that understood code of silence. So if you think about it, chances are that the Steelers players back then, who knew they could get away with almost anything, were, on net, a much worse bunch of moral line crossers than the players today who can't keep anything secret.

Like I said, I'm not trying to win an argument or call you a hypocrite. Personally, I try to mostly to separate the entertainment provided by the entertainers that enrich my life with their personal deeds or politics. I'm sure there could be exceptions. I can't promise to commit to that stance, but I figure why should I have to give up any kind enjoyment because of entertainers that are moral scum. That would just add me as another victim of their scumminess. I did nothing wrong, so why should I have to give anything up because of them?

I too hold on to some hate for Michael Vick as a person when I think about what he did, even though I probably should allow for redemption and reward that when it seems to happen. I'm not sure. But I have no problem rooting for a Steelers QB while he's in the uniform, hopefully helping all the Steelers I don't hate win games (but I hope it never comes to Vick actually having to play QB for us except in certain packages and at the end of a blowout).

I understand that it is kind of arbitrary to root for a uniform basically (as Jerry Seinfeld says), but it's fun to root for the same team every year, rather than the most moral team at the time. I am sad to see you go and be another of Michael Vick's victims by having to walk away from your fandom, but I understand it. I'm only trying to present a different point of view: that the past isn't as shiny and pure as it is in your fond memories. I still respect any decision you make after considering everything.

[dduc996]

Oh the things revealed if OUR lives were on displayed for all the world to see.


Matthew 6:14-15 (KJV)
14. For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15. But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

[SteelerFanInStl]

Oh the things revealed if OUR lives were on displayed for all the world to see.


Matthew 6:14-15 (KJV)
14. For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15. But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

A very fitting scripture.

[GoSlash27]

I understand that it is kind of arbitrary to root for a uniform basically (as Jerry Seinfeld says), but it's fun to root for the same team every year, rather than the most moral team at the time. I am sad to see you go and be another of Michael Vick's victims by having to walk away from your fandom, but I understand it. I'm only trying to present a different point of view: that the past isn't as shiny and pure as it is in your fond memories. I still respect any decision you make after considering everything.

Hollywood,
Thanks for the kind words. Just to be clear, I'm not "going" anywhere. I'm still a die- hard Steelers fan and always will be. I just won't be watching/ attending the games or buying/ displaying swag until Vick is gone. I won't be following or rooting for opposing teams in the meantime. You don't have to worry about losing me to the Ravens or anything silly like that. I'll just find other ways to occupy myself on Sundays until Vick is no longer in a Steelers uniform. Next Sunday after that I'm back with a vengeance.

Best,
-Slashy

[TeeTee]

Yep - no way the Steelers should ever deal with convicted felons. Hell if Martha Stewart wanted to associated herself with this team - I would be totally against it and sell my season tickets because I would rather die than have a CONVICTED FELON - any Convicted Felon be associated with the Steelers.

Don't you know? My self worth is totally tied to the Steelers. If they have a blemish then I have a blemish. I just can't have that. I am suffering because people are looking down on me because my team is associated with a CONVICTED FELON.

I can't even stand it when one of the Steelers gets a finger injury that forms a ball of pus at the tip because those things are called FELONS also and it just comes too close to someone thinking there are felons on the Steelers.

Yep. No felons for me. Whatsoever. They might as well just crawl and die. Michael Vick and Martha Stewart - just do me a favor and kill yourselves because in my ideal world - you would be ostracized and made a pariah and excluded and discriminated against for the rest of your lives!!!

I am pretty sure sarcasm has been applied here. Genius avatar ETL.

[TeeTee]

Oh the things revealed if OUR lives were on displayed for all the world to see.


Matthew 6:14-15 (KJV)
14. For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15. But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

If we are going to start defending this with bible quotes...well....let's try these.

• She lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses. Ezekiel 23:20 NIV

• Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material. Leviticus 19:19
• ​
• When men fight with one another, and the wife of the one draws near to rescue her husband from the hand of him who is beating him, and puts out her hand and seizes him by the private parts, then you shall cut off her hand. Deuteronomy 25:11-12

[dduc996]

Romans 5:8 (KJV)
But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

[dduc996]

If we are going to start defending this with bible quotes...well....let's try these.

• She lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses. Ezekiel 23:20 NIV

• Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material. Leviticus 19:19
• ​
• When men fight with one another, and the wife of the one draws near to rescue her husband from the hand of him who is beating him, and puts out her hand and seizes him by the private parts, then you shall cut off her hand. Deuteronomy 25:11-12

Haters always refer to the Old Testament to justify there hate.
Learn it before you use it. Lol

[dduc996]

Back on subject....or better yet....how many years ago was Vick convicted ? And he's still paying for it outside the judicial system...?
Examine our hearts.

[teegre]

Ezekiel 25:17

The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of the darkness. For he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know I am the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

[fansince'76]

Ezekiel 25:17

The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of the darkness. For he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know I am the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

Now I been sayin' that shit for years...and if you heard it, that meant your ass...