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Thread: Cam Heyward signs contract extension

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    Re: Cam Heyward signs contract extension

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    I can kind of see where you are coming from, but none of that really applies. Take a look at what 3-5 million a year buys you now a days at DE (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/contracts/defensive-end/). My opinion on all of those guys is "nope". My central point is that a player with Heyward's combination of age and production costs (typically) north of $10 million per year. End of story. You want that production out of your 3-4 end spot? You have two options pay for it (Heyward) or hope you drafted it and ride the low cost for 3 years or so (Tuitt).

    As to the larger cap issues, the Steelers got bit by a perfect storm last time. They paid premium $$$ to Harrison, Woodley, Polamalu, Hampton, Roethlisberger, Ward, Taylor, and Timmons/Farrior all at the same time. That's what happens when you have a LOADED team, miss on a few draft picks, and keep the band together for one last ride (how many out of that group got 3rd contracts?). EVEN w/ all that, it would still have worked if the CBA negotiations hadn't broken down and as a result the cap flattened out for 2-3 years.

    So the Steelers had to eat a bit of shit sandwich. Despite that tasty treat, the negative impact was/has been shockingly minimal. Let's count the "losses" to the cap troubles:

    1. Keenan Lewis
    2. A season or so of Larry Foote
    3. A season of James Harrison
    4. Say 3 lower end FA's

    That's it. I think that Omar Khan deserves a damn medal. He makes ZERO football decisions. Colbert et al come to him and say "Here is the list. All these guys have got to fit under the cap. Make it happen." Year after year he does, and the negative impacts have been fairly minimal.

    Well. Shit. Maybe I do worry too much about the cap for my own good; it's entirely possible.

    It's true that we didn't suffer any huge losses in free agency; on the other hand, part of that was because we went two whole draft classes without having anyone worth re-signing, so the joke was kind of on us.

    The one thing not really accounted for is that our cap troubles have basically precluded us from making any outside signings of any significance for several years. I'm not advocating any of the splashy break-the-bank signings, but perhaps we could've gotten an acceptable cornerback or nose tackle somewhere in that stretch.

    I don't know. What's for certain is that that span was not pleasant, and if we can avoid repeating it, I'd like to.

    You kind of feel bad for Harrison - of all the guys on the team making $9M or $10M, he was the one who seriously earned it that year, and then through no fault of his own, he didn't get it because he was the only one with a big contract that we hadn't restructured to death and rendered un-cuttable. I still don't think he's made back even half of what he was supposed to earn, and that's after playing three more years counting this one.
    See you Space Cowboy ...

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    Re: Cam Heyward signs contract extension

    Quote Originally Posted by steelreserve View Post
    Well. Shit. Maybe I do worry too much about the cap for my own good; it's entirely possible.

    It's true that we didn't suffer any huge losses in free agency; on the other hand, part of that was because we went two whole draft classes without having anyone worth re-signing, so the joke was kind of on us.

    The one thing not really accounted for is that our cap troubles have basically precluded us from making any outside signings of any significance for several years. I'm not advocating any of the splashy break-the-bank signings, but perhaps we could've gotten an acceptable cornerback or nose tackle somewhere in that stretch.

    I don't know. What's for certain is that that span was not pleasant, and if we can avoid repeating it, I'd like to.

    You kind of feel bad for Harrison - of all the guys on the team making $9M or $10M, he was the one who seriously earned it that year, and then through no fault of his own, he didn't get it because he was the only one with a big contract that we hadn't restructured to death and rendered un-cuttable. I still don't think he's made back even half of what he was supposed to earn, and that's after playing three more years counting this one.
    I don't know what to think about the cap - sometimes it seems to not really matter, other times it seems to. All I know is that the Steelers never screwed the pooch so bad that they had to justify something along the lines of trading Jimmy Graham like the Saints just had to. I guess the closest (and this should have been in my list above) was shipping Santonio out of town. That was as much because they were never going to pay him as it was for smoking weed.

    I agree that the tumbleweeds that were all the team had to show for two draft classes was a major problem. Basically no one from two classes gets a second contract? OUCH!

    Maybe Harrison could beat Cam Thomas and take his couple of million in back-pay from that?

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    Re: Cam Heyward signs contract extension


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    Re: Cam Heyward signs contract extension

    Quote Originally Posted by polamalubeast View Post

    So really what it works out to is:

    2015: $6,400,000
    2016: restructure
    2017: restructure
    2018: restructure
    2019: aw shit
    2020: ($22M dead money)

    I guess 5 years is a pretty reasonable expectation for how long Ben will play, so in that event it works out.
    See you Space Cowboy ...

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    Re: Cam Heyward signs contract extension

    So really what it works out to is:

    2015: $6,400,000
    2016: restructure
    2017: restructure
    2018: restructure
    2019: aw shit
    2020: ($22M dead money)
    nah - he'll make it to year 3 of his contract, then we'll restructure

    YEAR BASE SALARY SIGNING BONUS ROSTER BONUS CAP CHARGE
    2015 $1,000,000.00 $2,400,000.00 $3,000,000.00 $6,400,000.00
    2016 $3,000,000.00 $2,400,000.00 $5,000,000.00 $10,400,000.00
    2017 $5,000,000.00 $2,400,000.00 $3,000,000.00 $10,400,000.00
    2018 $9,000,000.00 $2,400,000.00 $- $11,400,000.00
    2019 $8,750,000.00 $2,400,000.00 $- $11,150,000.00
    2020 $9,500,000.00 $- $- $9,500,000.00
    Totals $36,250,000.00 $12,000,000.00 $11,000,000.00 $59,250,000.00

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    Re: Cam Heyward signs contract extension

    Do you see the $5 million roster bonus? It'll be restructured next year without a doubt.

    We'll need the space to sign Decastro or Bell, plus Beachum if we don't get a deal done in the next couple months. Then watch - Jarvis Jones has a season just good enough that we're not sure whether he's worth a long-term deal, and he's holding out for a $10M contract because he thinks he'll do even better in 2016, so he gets the tranny tag. Then we probably decide to keep either Adams or Foster around (I don't think they'll get rid of both at once), and try to extend S. Thomas if he does well.

    Figure the cap will go up as much as $10 million like it did this year, and we'll get $7M from the Woodley dead money expiring plus $4.5M from Polamalu's dead money; that's $21 million in free space, with $35-$40 million a year in contracts to fit under it, which we can probably cut to half of that amount by backloading. So it fits, barely.

    But wait - since we had $21 million in cap space, Brown thinks we have plenty of extra money to take care of him and threatens to hold out again if we don't give him a raise. Figure $4M a year for that. It gets better - his cap number goes up $3M next year anyway, so we've got to account for an extra $7M, which of course will be done by backloading.

    But wait again - Mike Mitchell's cap number goes up by $4 million next year, so we either restructure his deal and make him uncuttable, or find the money somewhere else. Gilbert's cap number goes up $3.25 million, so we restructure him or someone else. Pouncey's deal goes up by $6 million, so we restructure him AND probably someone else as well to absorb that hit. For those keeping track at home, that's $16 million in new cap charges - another Woodley contract and a half - for which we get nothing in return. It is the same as dead money from a restructure, only in this case it's because of the original structure. The only way to get out of it? Restructuring.

    All of this put together means there is no doubt - NONE - that we restructure Heyward's contract next year, or else let an important player walk.

    See what I meant about all the restructures and backloading just meaning we kick the can down the road? The cap's going up by more than it used to, but it's going up $10M a year and we're adding $20M or $30M worth of new contracts. We haven't actually "made it" through the salary cap mess at all; we just got a couple-year breather and now the deals we signed in that space are coming right back at us.

    I figure we can probably keep the cap situation teetering precariously for about 4 or 5 more years, assuming we sign no new free agents. But when Ben retires - and you know his contract will have been restructured multiple times, because it's the granddaddy of them all - expect it to all go to shit very quickly. We'll likely be facing a situation like the 49ers of the late '90s, which was basically impossible to navigate cleanly. It gives us the best title chance in our remaining window, but boy is there going to be a mess to clean up.
    See you Space Cowboy ...

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    Re: Cam Heyward signs contract extension

    We must stop to think about the worst case scenario

    No chance that Jarvis Jones will have 10 million per year

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    Re: Cam Heyward signs contract extension

    Quote Originally Posted by polamalubeast View Post
    We must stop to think about the worst case scenario

    No chance that Jarvis Jones will have 10 million per year

    There was no chance Worilds was going to get that much either.

    Even ignoring Jones completely, just from the amount that our existing contracts increase, we're looking at having $5M in cap space and three important players to re-sign, plus give a sizable raise to Brown.

    And that's if the cap goes up by the same amount as last year, which is by no means a guarantee. The new TV deal already kicked in. That could be it, and then back to a couple million a year like before. For our sake, I sure hope not. It could be a $15 million increase for all we know. How sure are you?

    Remember, all I'm trying to say is that restructuring contracts again is a virtual certainty. Not that our entire cap situation is collapsing and we're all going to die. Like I said, they can keep it up for a few more years this way. Then we're in a world of hurt.
    See you Space Cowboy ...

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    Re: Cam Heyward signs contract extension

    Personally, I stopped to worry about the salary cap in the last few years...I take it one year at a time and I trust that the front officice will be able to keep the best players on the team.(Bell,Decastro,Brown,etc)

    The teams with the most cap space are often the browns, the buccaneers, jaguars, etc and they are all bad teams in the past several years.So, sometimes the cap space does not mean much

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    Re: Cam Heyward signs contract extension

    Quote Originally Posted by steelreserve View Post
    Do you see the $5 million roster bonus? It'll be restructured next year without a doubt.
    I was looking the jump in base pay from $5M to $9M.

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    Re: Cam Heyward signs contract extension

    Steelers have 8 million in cap space, for the record.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Steelers have 8 million in cap space, for the record.

    Once Woodley and Troy come off the books at the start of next year, they'll have over 20.5 free in that alone. And whatever the increase of the salary cap is.

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    Re: Cam Heyward signs contract extension

    Quote Originally Posted by steelreserve View Post
    Do you see the $5 million roster bonus? It'll be restructured next year without a doubt.

    We'll need the space to sign Decastro or Bell, plus Beachum if we don't get a deal done in the next couple months. Then watch - Jarvis Jones has a season just good enough that we're not sure whether he's worth a long-term deal, and he's holding out for a $10M contract because he thinks he'll do even better in 2016, so he gets the tranny tag. Then we probably decide to keep either Adams or Foster around (I don't think they'll get rid of both at once), and try to extend S. Thomas if he does well.

    Figure the cap will go up as much as $10 million like it did this year, and we'll get $7M from the Woodley dead money expiring plus $4.5M from Polamalu's dead money; that's $21 million in free space, with $35-$40 million a year in contracts to fit under it, which we can probably cut to half of that amount by backloading. So it fits, barely.

    But wait - since we had $21 million in cap space, Brown thinks we have plenty of extra money to take care of him and threatens to hold out again if we don't give him a raise. Figure $4M a year for that. It gets better - his cap number goes up $3M next year anyway, so we've got to account for an extra $7M, which of course will be done by backloading.

    But wait again - Mike Mitchell's cap number goes up by $4 million next year, so we either restructure his deal and make him uncuttable, or find the money somewhere else. Gilbert's cap number goes up $3.25 million, so we restructure him or someone else. Pouncey's deal goes up by $6 million, so we restructure him AND probably someone else as well to absorb that hit. For those keeping track at home, that's $16 million in new cap charges - another Woodley contract and a half - for which we get nothing in return. It is the same as dead money from a restructure, only in this case it's because of the original structure. The only way to get out of it? Restructuring.

    All of this put together means there is no doubt - NONE - that we restructure Heyward's contract next year, or else let an important player walk.

    See what I meant about all the restructures and backloading just meaning we kick the can down the road? The cap's going up by more than it used to, but it's going up $10M a year and we're adding $20M or $30M worth of new contracts. We haven't actually "made it" through the salary cap mess at all; we just got a couple-year breather and now the deals we signed in that space are coming right back at us.

    I figure we can probably keep the cap situation teetering precariously for about 4 or 5 more years, assuming we sign no new free agents. But when Ben retires - and you know his contract will have been restructured multiple times, because it's the granddaddy of them all - expect it to all go to shit very quickly. We'll likely be facing a situation like the 49ers of the late '90s, which was basically impossible to navigate cleanly. It gives us the best title chance in our remaining window, but boy is there going to be a mess to clean up.
    Okay., I will take the bait. The entire problem is solved by signing Decastro, Timmons, Brown, and Beachum to multi-year extensions Remember, backloading is not a bad thing if you don't do it with guaranteed money. The restructure is a problem because you have to actually pay that money. But backloading a contract is just a way to ego boost players. "You're totally the highest paid guy at your position!". They just don't highlight the fact that 50+% of the money is non guaranteed and in the last two years of the deal where the players is more expensive to keep on the roster than it is to cut them.

    Unless Jarvis Jones is revealed to be the second coming, I don't see how he gets even 6 million per. Let alone twice that.

    I thought it was the Woodley restructure and the Polamalu deal that were going to kill the cap. Now it is the Heyward deal. What if it never, you know, actually happens? Do we still have to talk about it all the time?

    We should be focus on the shit deals this team does make, not the imaginary ones it doesn't. Such as - How was it a good idea to sign a back-up RB that offers no reason to take your main RB off the field? Blount was a stupid signing from a football standpoint and an even dumber one from a chemistry standpoint. In contrast, DeAngelo Williams actually makes sense. He is a vet, so he won't mind not being "the guy". His skillset actually means you don't have to change the entire offensive scheme when he comes on the field.

    Or what about paying Mike Mitchell a bunch of money after he had one good season playing behind one of the best front sevens in the NFL. Were we all supposed to ignore his prior seasons where he just barely average? Wouldn't the team be in a better cap position and football situation if Shamarko Thomas had simply taken his lumps and played last season? I don't care about the position issue - wouldn't have mattered anyways.

    Cortez Allen. Keenan Lewis. There, that should start a pretty solid argument.

    The next important player the Steelers cut due to the cap will be the first.

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    Re: Cam Heyward signs contract extension

    Quote Originally Posted by Chidi29 View Post
    Steelers have 8 million in cap space, for the record.

    Once Woodley and Troy come off the books at the start of next year, they'll have over 20.5 free in that alone. And whatever the increase of the salary cap is.

    That'll be gone in the blink of an eye. $16M in cap increases for the four players I mentioned. I hadn't even bothered looking at Ben, but it turns out that's another $6.5 million. We claw back about $1.5-$2 million from players whose cap hit goes slightly down. Then Moats' cap number goes up by $1.7M, basically canceling that out. So our starting point is whatever the cap increase is, minus $2 million.

    Then we've got other decisions on some of our minor free agents - for instance, do we want to keep Spence, Blake, Vince Williams, or Will Johnson around? If so, they'll cost us more than they do now. Do we want to sign Wheaton to a longer deal? Ditto for that. So assuming we act roughly average on that, the amount of space we're looking at in 2016 is the cap increase minus $3-4 million.

    If the cap goes up by $10M again, we've got $6-7 million to get contract extensions done for one star player (DeCastro), one superstar (Bell), a decent left tackle (Beachum), and whatever pay increase Brown is going to want. Call it $8M, $9M, $7M, and $4M if we get typical deals; that's another $28M a year just to keep our own guys.

    If the cap goes up by $15 million instead of $10 million, it doesn't really matter much in light of that. The only way we'll ever be able to keep our own guys is still by backloading AND restructuring. Make no mistake about it.
    See you Space Cowboy ...

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    Re: Cam Heyward signs contract extension

    For the Total (w / Top 51)the steelers are at 135 million

    http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/pittsburgh-steelers/cap/

    For next year, they are at 145 million

    http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/pittsburg...lers/cap/2016/

    The Steelers will only need (if necessary) to do a little restructuring or some cut to be in good shape

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    Re: Cam Heyward signs contract extension

    Quote Originally Posted by polamalubeast View Post
    For the Total (w / Top 51)the steelers are at 135 million

    http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/pittsburgh-steelers/cap/

    For next year, they are at 145 million

    http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/pittsburg...lers/cap/2016/

    The Steelers will only need (if necessary) to do a little restructuring or some cut to be in good shape
    Hey, now. Facts and figures have no place in this debate. Remember, the Steelers are like a majestic comet - streaking across the sky to some newfangled salary cap hell of their own making.

    It's not like every other NFL team does the same stuff or anything...

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    Re: Cam Heyward signs contract extension

    Quote Originally Posted by polamalubeast View Post
    For the Total (w / Top 51)the steelers are at 135 million

    http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/pittsburgh-steelers/cap/

    For next year, they are at 145 million

    http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/pittsburg...lers/cap/2016/

    The Steelers will only need (if necessary) to do a little restructuring or some cut to be in good shape

    That 2016 list is assuming a lot of unlikely things. Like we let go of all our 2015 free agents and don't replace them, that we don't try to extend anyone under contract for 2016 until they become free agents after the end of the 2016 season, etc. The real number we have to deal with is going to be a lot more than that.

    As I said, the sky is not falling and we won't lose anyone important right away.

    I don't think the argument that "we didn't lose anyone important last time with all the restructures, so we won't this time" is anywhere near correct, though. We didn't lose anyone important because we were "lucky" (if you can call it that) that we had no star players to sign when the cap situation was at its worst. If we did, we wouldn't have been able to keep them, simple as that. I guess not having star players in the first place is more acceptable to some people than having them and letting them get away, but the end result is the same in either case and it was reflected on the field.

    We may not run into real problems from this until, say, 2018, just keep an eye out.
    See you Space Cowboy ...

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    Re: Cam Heyward signs contract extension

    Here's the thing. I'm tired of hearing that in the period between 2011 and 2015 he "bloodletting" and "salary cap driven" breakdown of the Steelers roster occurred. It is in almost all media stories about the Steelers and is even found in Steelers focused news/analysis outlets that should know far better. The roster turnover was because players got old, their bodies started breaking down, or they started not being good at football anymore. Sometimes it was a combination of those things.

    Aaron Smith's body simply fell apart - multiple seasons. He was let go for that reason, not his cap #.
    Casey Hampton's body also started to break down. At the end he simply wasn't good enough anymore. His cap # had no impact on the film he was putting down.
    James Farrior could no longer stay with backs and TEs in coverage. He wasn't really explosive as an interior blitzer.
    Ike Taylor can't cover basically anyone anymore.
    Polamalu was simply broken and ineffective.
    Ward - ditto
    Foote was broken and ineffective.
    Kiesel was broken and ineffective.

    Now, I certainly realize that maybe if these guys all took the vet minimums or something they would have knocked around another year or so - but the bottom line it wasn't like these guys were still effective and the Steelers were like, well, we're out of money, so see ya! I mean I guess that happened with Harrison and Plaxico Burress and likely with Santonio Holmes.

    But this period of "salary cap hell" and roster purgatory that the franchise is just now recovering from, didn't really happen on the field. I guess on a balance sheet maybe it did. What actually happened is that a championship core got old and for 2-3 draft classes, the team drafted crappy players.

    But that is apparently too complex of a story for the media folks and it is easier to say that they got rid of a bunch of players and got younger because of the cap, rather than because of trying to replenish talent.

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    Re: Cam Heyward signs contract extension

    Quote Originally Posted by steelreserve View Post
    That 2016 list is assuming a lot of unlikely things. Like we let go of all our 2015 free agents and don't replace them, that we don't try to extend anyone under contract for 2016 until they become free agents after the end of the 2016 season, etc. The real number we have to deal with is going to be a lot more than that.

    As I said, the sky is not falling and we won't lose anyone important right away.

    I don't think the argument that "we didn't lose anyone important last time with all the restructures, so we won't this time" is anywhere near correct, though. We didn't lose anyone important because we were "lucky" (if you can call it that) that we had no star players to sign when the cap situation was at its worst. If we did, we wouldn't have been able to keep them, simple as that. I guess not having star players in the first place is more acceptable to some people than having them and letting them get away, but the end result is the same in either case and it was reflected on the field.

    We may not run into real problems from this until, say, 2018, just keep an eye out.
    Why worried about 2018 ????

    Lots of thing can happen during 3-4 years,so you are wasting your time to be worried about 2018!

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    Re: Cam Heyward signs contract extension

    Yeah...the cap could drop...who knows...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

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    Re: Cam Heyward signs contract extension

    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    Yeah...the cap could drop...who knows...
    Very unlikely and almost every teams would be in trouble if it happens.

  21. #81

    Re: Cam Heyward signs contract extension

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Here's the thing. I'm tired of hearing that in the period between 2011 and 2015 he "bloodletting" and "salary cap driven" breakdown of the Steelers roster occurred. It is in almost all media stories about the Steelers and is even found in Steelers focused news/analysis outlets that should know far better. The roster turnover was because players got old, their bodies started breaking down, or they started not being good at football anymore. Sometimes it was a combination of those things.

    Aaron Smith's body simply fell apart - multiple seasons. He was let go for that reason, not his cap #.
    Casey Hampton's body also started to break down. At the end he simply wasn't good enough anymore. His cap # had no impact on the film he was putting down.
    James Farrior could no longer stay with backs and TEs in coverage. He wasn't really explosive as an interior blitzer.
    Ike Taylor can't cover basically anyone anymore.
    Polamalu was simply broken and ineffective.
    Ward - ditto
    Foote was broken and ineffective.
    Kiesel was broken and ineffective.

    Now, I certainly realize that maybe if these guys all took the vet minimums or something they would have knocked around another year or so - but the bottom line it wasn't like these guys were still effective and the Steelers were like, well, we're out of money, so see ya! I mean I guess that happened with Harrison and Plaxico Burress and likely with Santonio Holmes.

    But this period of "salary cap hell" and roster purgatory that the franchise is just now recovering from, didn't really happen on the field. I guess on a balance sheet maybe it did. What actually happened is that a championship core got old and for 2-3 draft classes, the team drafted crappy players.

    But that is apparently too complex of a story for the media folks and it is easier to say that they got rid of a bunch of players and got younger because of the cap, rather than because of trying to replenish talent.
    I'd say you're right, and wrong.

    Yes, we did enter into a period of salary-cap purgatory. Yes, we made some hard decisions based on it, but it was all designed and planned around the aging core of the Steelers. Almost every player you listed up there was going to be a target of being cut for cap reasons. The Steelers gambled their cap against (1) a chance to go to the SB again, and (2) aging players retiring/losing skills, giving us more cap room. They both happened.


  22. #82
    NFL's Dirtiest Player Array title="86WARD has a reputation beyond repute"> 86WARD's Avatar

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    Re: Cam Heyward signs contract extension

    Quote Originally Posted by polamalubeast View Post
    Very unlikely and almost every teams would be in trouble if it happens.
    But possible...lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

  23. #83

    Re: Cam Heyward signs contract extension

    Quote Originally Posted by steelreserve View Post
    That 2016 list is assuming a lot of unlikely things. Like we let go of all our 2015 free agents and don't replace them, that we don't try to extend anyone under contract for 2016 until they become free agents after the end of the 2016 season, etc. The real number we have to deal with is going to be a lot more than that.

    As I said, the sky is not falling and we won't lose anyone important right away.

    I don't think the argument that "we didn't lose anyone important last time with all the restructures, so we won't this time" is anywhere near correct, though. We didn't lose anyone important because we were "lucky" (if you can call it that) that we had no star players to sign when the cap situation was at its worst. If we did, we wouldn't have been able to keep them, simple as that. I guess not having star players in the first place is more acceptable to some people than having them and letting them get away, but the end result is the same in either case and it was reflected on the field.

    We may not run into real problems from this until, say, 2018, just keep an eye out.
    Well, Timmons has a year left on his contract after this season. He'll be a 11.8 million dollar cap hit, 3 mill unavoidable. His base is 8.7 mill. Resign him with a smaller base and stretch the signing bonus, we may see 3 mill relief from him alone. Heath Miller is a 5.6 mill. hit (1.6 mill dead money). At age 32, he'll either sign a smaller deal, or will have to face life after football after 2016 (he'll be 34), which lowers his cap number either way. We may get upwards of 5 million in cap relief after dealing with them.

    As for Free agents,

    McLendon we might want back. His cap number will probably be around 3 Mill.
    Cam Thomas we all hope is gone.
    Ramon Foster we want back, his cap number, assuming a 10 percent increase, will probably be around 2.4 mill
    Decastro will ahve a year left on his contract, and has a 8Mill cap hit. That'll get extended. I'd be willing to bet we get 2 to 4 mill in relief.
    Jarvis Joes is in the same boat, but only a 2.7 Mill hit. If he doesn't produce this year, and is looking for a contract, it'll reduce his cap him prob. by half.
    Foster and Gradowki. Figure 4.5 mill hit for the two fo them.
    Bell will get resigned, but no cap help there. Wheaton will get resigned, but no cap help there. DeAngelo Williams might get resigned, we might see a small cap help there. That leavesw Gay, Beachum, Johns and Golden. Total, about 7 mill.

    As of right now, the 2016 season has no dead money added to it. That means according to all the signed contracts, right now we sit at 5 million under the cap. When you add in all I have above (and not counting Jones either way), we come in 3.9 Mill over the cap.

    To, to @polamalubeast's numbers, the "little" restructing is going to be about 4 mil worth of restructuring. If Miller decides to retire, or the Steelers get the Bettis Special 1.5 mill or whatever it is from him, that almost takes care of it alone.


  24. #84
    Senior Member Array title="Mojouw has a reputation beyond repute"> Mojouw's Avatar

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    Re: Cam Heyward signs contract extension

    Quote Originally Posted by Craic View Post
    I'd say you're right, and wrong.

    Yes, we did enter into a period of salary-cap purgatory. Yes, we made some hard decisions based on it, but it was all designed and planned around the aging core of the Steelers. Almost every player you listed up there was going to be a target of being cut for cap reasons. The Steelers gambled their cap against (1) a chance to go to the SB again, and (2) aging players retiring/losing skills, giving us more cap room. They both happened.
    What were the hard decisions? Who were the players that were let go too early? Who were the critical and realistic FA's that went unsigned (Revis was never coming to Pittsburgh)? About the only "difficult" thing was a # of contract restructures, that are now almost all off the books. Or at least the big ones.

    I'm honestly asking, because looking at it, I think the whole thing was a media driven story and had very little to do with what was actually happening on the football field. Pittsburgh has recently had a few sub-par seasons because they were bad at keeping enough young talent in the pipeline (drafting) not because the cap forced them to decimate the roster.

    But one story is hard to demonstrate (facts, research, etc) and one easily fits in a 140 character twitter. Wonder which one became the narrative?

  25. #85
    Senior Member Array title="teegre has a reputation beyond repute"> teegre's Avatar

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    Re: Cam Heyward signs contract extension

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Ah! I see you that you are unaware of Steelers message board orthodoxy. It goes along theses lines:

    1. The Steelers always mismanage the cap. Omar Khan caves to player demands and simply pays what they want. This screws up the cap and the ability to add to the roster year after year.

    2. All players should be signed to the minimum contract the Steelers can strong-arm them in to taking. Strangely enough NFL teams apparently hold all the leverage in negotiations. Holdouts are not a thing apparently. Or no player that suits up for the black and gold would ever dare hold out on the Steelers - at least no "real" Steelers. I believe this is the "magic jersey" argument. All players that threaten holdouts should be cut - unless they are super good (known as the Hines Ward caveat).

    3. Signing players to contracts based on future performance is a tool of the salary cap devil. Side note - I saw the salary cap devil once. He looks like the robot devil from Futurama - it was weird. Anyway, back to the main point, players should only be paid on present performance and AT BEST be forced to sign heavily incentive laden deals if it is thought that they may outperform some minimal contract figure. Again, holdouts are not a thing (see above). This is known as the "Lamar Woodley is fat"; "Crotez Allen stinks"; and "Marcus Gilbert is a double agent whose sole purpose is to destroy the ligaments of all 4 other starting offensive lineman" clause.

    4. Math is hard. So is Googling for contract information on comparable players. Plus those are precedents set by other NFL teams. Clearly, such a model franchise as the Steelers should be blazing new trails in "capology" and not simply blindly following the "sheeple" that lead other NFL teams.

    5. The Rooneys are cheap.
    LOL

    Alas, that is so true. I have a name that I call those people who think like that: "Mom" and "Dad".

  26. #86
    Senior Member Array title="teegre has a reputation beyond repute"> teegre's Avatar

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    Re: Cam Heyward signs contract extension

    Quote Originally Posted by steelreserve View Post
    Maybe I do worry too much about the cap for my own good.
    I think that this is it. Relax, man.

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    Re: Cam Heyward signs contract extension


    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

  28. #88
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    Re: Cam Heyward signs contract extension

    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post



  29. #89
    Senior Member Array title="Mojouw has a reputation beyond repute"> Mojouw's Avatar

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    Re: Cam Heyward signs contract extension

    In danger of beating this into the ground, but if you want to read about how to truly mismanage the cap and run a franchise aground, this is it. Not what the Steelers have been doing. They have played with fire, but this guy is basically chain smoking outside of a gas station.

    http://grantland.com/the-triangle/th...n-new-orleans/

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