Mike Tomlin or Bill Cowher: Who Retires as Greater Pittsburgh Steelers Coach?

[86WARD]

When Cowher's smashball didn't work he resorted to a trick play to jump start the offense...

[tube517]

Nailed it again, Fan. When Cowher came in as HC in 1991, he was a breath of fresh air. I remember we beat Houston week one, on the road, as a pretty big underdog. That was a sign of things to come. He put together some really solid teams. But, as many of us are often fond of saying about Tomlin winning with Cowher players, Cowher himself had the cupboard pretty full from Noll players. Let's not forget, Cowher inherited players such as Woodson, O'Donnell, Hoge, Lloyd, Lake, Foster, Green, Mills, Nickerson, Everett, John Jackson, Dawson, Haselrig, Strzelczyk, et al. How many probowlers is that?

This.

[tube517]

Which, again, was largely his own fault. He passed on Brees in '01 (thankfully, Big Snack panned out) and would have done the same with Roethlisberger in '04 if Dan Rooney hadn't overruled him. And God only knows how long Roethlisberger would have languished on the bench had Turnover Tommy not gotten injured.

Also, they passed over an (aging but still effective) Joe Montana for Neil O'Donnell. Now, as I said, he was aging but he and 103 year old Marcus Allen took a less talented KC team to one game of the Super Bowl. I"m not sure it was just Cowher and whoever else made the personnnel decisions but chalk that one up as well

See the "Who the Steelers passed up as QB over the years" thread.

[TeeTee]

Cowher's mishandling of Kordell Stewart was a debacle as well. They would've been better off keeping Slash where he was and starting Jim Miller at QB.

Understatement alert. I loathed that after Cowher made the mistake of making KS starting QB, he refused to reverse course, even giving him a huge new contract when he had TWO years remaining on his current deal but was playing like shit. He pushed for the new, early contract to boost Kordell's confidence, but it was FAIL. I actually kind of hated Cowher the years he was force feeding KS on us. KS did have ONE probowl year (but lost the championship game to Denver, at home, after being up and Bettis was churning out 5 yards per carry when KS threw into TRIPLE coverage and Romanowski give him the "DUH" face to end the half.

[polamalubeast]

Some comments below this video

lumpy pants20h Ago
Tomlin won early with Cowhers players. As Cowhers players retired, tomlins success has dwindled. That is a fact. Tomlin brings nothing to the team except cool cliches. No input on offense, non on defense. Not a motivator. Just a figurehead
The team has lost it identity as being tough and physical. Nobody is afraid of these Steelers anymore. Little discipline or accountability, that's why the players love him. He knows his roll with this team. He was hired for 1 reason. He has little to no say in hirings and firings. He's a mouthpiece for the franchise. His coordinators are allowed to do their thing. He has the most secure job in the nfl. He won't be fired. He may end up with lots of wins simply due to longevity, not skill set. Until Ben retires, tomlin is living off cowhers players. Tomlin won't be able to be compared to kill or cowher until he drafts his own franchise qb

[Mojouw]

And the only reason he had one at all is because Dan Rooney pulled rank on him during the '04 Draft.

And I still say we almost lost Super Bowl XL because he insisted coming out in his usual ultra-conservative Martyball-lite turtleball mode. You'd think that after blowing the Broncos' doors off in the AFCCG, Roethlisberger's confidence would have been peaking, yet he played that game scared to death. Think Cowher didn't have a huge hand in that, especially after watching O'Donnell hand over his first Super Bowl to the Cowboys on a silver platter? I do.

I also vividly recall a sideline soundbite by Roethlisberger from the highlights of that game, which, IMO, said it all: "Let's play to win, coach, not play not to lose." Thankfully, the Seahawks played like shit as well and we got a couple of calls our way.

Again, the guy just did not know how to effectively manage his QBs.

This, a million times this! Cowher couldn't shake his Marty-ball tendencies in the biggest games!

Also, I don't get the whole "Tomlin is a figurehead and Cowher was a FOOTBALL COACH!" thing. Cowher was just as reliant on his coordinators to gameplan as Tomlin is. The biggest difference appears to be their demeanor on the sidelines. I really feel that is simply a function of where things are at now a days. There are not a lot of yellers and screamers roaming the NFL sidelines anymore.

[tube517]

This, a million times this! Cowher couldn't shake his Marty-ball tendencies in the biggest games!

Also, I don't get the whole "Tomlin is a figurehead and Cowher was a FOOTBALL COACH!" thing. Cowher was just as reliant on his coordinators to gameplan as Tomlin is. The biggest difference appears to be their demeanor on the sidelines. I really feel that is simply a function of where things are at now a days. There are not a lot of yellers and screamers roaming the NFL sidelines anymore.

[fansince'76]

The team has lost it identity as being tough and physical.

Uh, that pretty much sums up the league as a whole nowadays. Seems to me Steelers defensive players were getting fined right and left up until quite recently. Ask James Harrison and Ryan Clark and even Troy Polamalu about that.

It was also the primary reason they were the only team that didn't rubber stamp the current CBA that everyone else and their brother are now bitching about now that the Steelers aren't the only ones getting bent over by the Commish's office on a regular basis anymore.

Tomlin won't be able to be compared to kill or cowher until he drafts his own franchise qb

Again, please. If it had been left up to Cowher, we would have drafted another OT in the first round in 2004. Ben's as much of a "Cowher guy" as Harrison is. IOW, he isn't.

[polamalubeast]

another comment.....

Ryan Kowatch10h Ago
Not contest...cowher. Only reason tomlin has a SB is cause of a team cowher built. Once those players left and got older the team has gone downhill....way downhill. They are finally starting to get better. If it wasn't for having Ben and getting lucky with brown and bell steelers would still suck which I hate to say.

[tube517]

another comment.....

Ryan Kowatch10h Ago
Not contest...cowher. Only reason tomlin has a SB is cause of a team cowher built. Once those players left and got older the team has gone downhill....way downhill. They are finally starting to get better. If it wasn't for having Ben and getting lucky with brown and bell steelers would still suck which I hate to say.

Where was this 14 year old when Cowher went through dogcrap years in 98 (losing season), 99 (losing season), 03 (5 game losing streak and losing season), 06 (2-6 start). Losing to a team with Stan Freaking Humprhies at QB and having a TE who averaged 9 catches a season for his 11 year career beat your top rated defense with an untouched TD and a "Coconut Juice" celebration in the AFC Championship game.

[hawaiiansteeler]

[tube517]

[Mojouw]

Ryan Kowatch10h Ago
Not contest...cowher. Only reason tomlin has a SB is cause of a team cowher built. Once those players left and got older the team has gone downhill....way downhill. They are finally starting to get better. If it wasn't for having Ben and getting lucky with brown and bell steelers would still suck which I hate to say.

I love how the haters argue that they "Screw up" draft picks when things go bad and they "got lucky" when they go good. Kinda allows you to hate things no matter what!

[fansince'76]

One of the key members of the '08 run (and arguably the most imortant as he was also the DPOY that year) was James Harrison. Cowher not only cut him 3 times, but he also sat on the bench behind Porter until Cowher left. I also think it's more than a safe bet that Harrison would have continued to be a bench warmer had Cowher stayed.

Once again, how exactly was Harrison a "Cowher guy?"

[zulater]

I like them both, both were excellent coaches. I wont disparage one to prop up the other.

[polamalubeast]

Cowher not deserve the credit for the pick of Roethlisberger in 2004 but he deserves a lot of credit for the pick of Polamalu in 2003.

The Steelers needed to make a Trade up(27 to 16) to have Polamalu

[86WARD]

Cowher nor Tomlin were GMs. Sure they have input but not final say. I think both get too much credit for "picks."

[st33lersguy]

If Tomlin wins another Super Bowl, he will probably be considered better by default of having more Super Bowl wins. I do like the direction the team is headed in and if enough of the young guys on defense step up, I don't see how the Super Bowl is out of question.

[teegre]

I like them both, both were excellent coaches. I wont disparage one to prop up the other.

Thank you.

That is the best response to this (seemingly neverending) discussion.

[Craic]

If I had to rank one above the other . . . it'd be real tough, but I think I'd have to put Tomlin just a hair over Cowher at this point. Cowher had the ability to get everything from his players and then some. Go back and look at the O line in 2004. There's no reason we go 15-1 with that line. Two 2-teamers had to step in from the beginning, and Ben is in his first year. That was all Cowher's ability to squeeze every last drop from his players. The problem is, he rested on that too much, and it exposed him when they went up against more talented teams (AFCCGs). It also caused serious problems when he lost his top players.

By comparison, Tomlin gets a lot out of his players, but he doesn't depend purely on motivation to make his team win. As a result, when he loses talent (like over the last three years) he is still able to be in the playoff hunt every year. Unlike the middle part of Cowher's tenure, where we had two losing seasons and three seasons without a playoff appearance, in the same place in Tomlin's tenure, we had no losing seasons and went only 2 years without a playoff appearance. And, I would argue, at a time when more teams were looking for the same type of players as the Steelers.

But, does that mean I think Tomlin is actually the better coach? No. Tomlin has a franchise QB. Cowher, for whatever reason, didn't, through this part in both of their coaching careers. Give Ben to Cowher when he first took the team, and give O'Donell to Tomlin, and Cowher walks away with two SB wins. Tomlin loses the SB against Arizona (The defense, I think still would have gotten him there).

All in all, they're in the same class. And we are privileged to have an organization that can pick Head Coaches. Our biggest worry should be what we'll do in four to five years when Ben hits the end of his ability to effectively play in the NFL.

[LLT]

After careful deliberation and thoughtful contemplation, the greatest Steelers Coach will have been....


Chuck Noll.

[hawaiiansteeler]

After careful deliberation and thoughtful contemplation, the greatest Steelers Coach will have been....

Chuck Noll.

hard to argue with that conclusion...

[jb500ex]

If I had to rank one above the other . . . it'd be real tough, but I think I'd have to put Tomlin just a hair over Cowher at this point. Cowher had the ability to get everything from his players and then some. Go back and look at the O line in 2004. There's no reason we go 15-1 with that line. Two 2-teamers had to step in from the beginning, and Ben is in his first year. That was all Cowher's ability to squeeze every last drop from his players. The problem is, he rested on that too much, and it exposed him when they went up against more talented teams (AFCCGs). It also caused serious problems when he lost his top players.

By comparison, Tomlin gets a lot out of his players, but he doesn't depend purely on motivation to make his team win. As a result, when he loses talent (like over the last three years) he is still able to be in the playoff hunt every year. Unlike the middle part of Cowher's tenure, where we had two losing seasons and three seasons without a playoff appearance, in the same place in Tomlin's tenure, we had no losing seasons and went only 2 years without a playoff appearance. And, I would argue, at a time when more teams were looking for the same type of players as the Steelers.

But, does that mean I think Tomlin is actually the better coach? No. Tomlin has a franchise QB. Cowher, for whatever reason, didn't, through this part in both of their coaching careers. Give Ben to Cowher when he first took the team, and give O'Donell to Tomlin, and Cowher walks away with two SB wins. Tomlin loses the SB against Arizona (The defense, I think still would have gotten him there).

All in all, they're in the same class. And we are privileged to have an organization that can pick Head Coaches. Our biggest worry should be what we'll do in four to five years when Ben hits the end of his ability to effectively play in the NFL.

3 yrs no playoffs for Tomlin not 2

[Godfather]

They're both good and I'd rank them about the same. They have similar strengths and weaknesses and similar records. I think Tomlin will eventually be better because there's a good chance that he'll win a second Lombardi and that will put him ahead of Cowher.

[Craic]

3 yrs no playoffs for Tomlin not 2

No.

Note the context:

Unlike the middle part of Cowher's tenure, where we had two losing seasons and three seasons without a playoff appearance, in the same place in Tomlin's tenure, we had nolosing seasons and went only 2 years without a playoff appearance.

I pretty clearly meant the rebuilding cycle both coaches went through beginning 6 or 7 years into their careers. That being said, my point isn't to disparage Cowher, but to say that all-in-all, they get pretty much the same results from two distinct methods of coaching.

[zulater]

They're both good and I'd rank them about the same. They have similar strengths and weaknesses and similar records. I think Tomlin will eventually be better because there's a good chance that he'll win a second Lombardi and that will put him ahead of Cowher.

Can't argue with that.

[teegre]

I think Tomlin will eventually be better because there's a good chance that he'll win a second Lombardi and that will put him ahead of Cowher.

I just read this... and, I re-read the initial question...

...and, YES, Tomlin with win at least one** more (which could put him "ahead" of Cowher).



**(I'm thinking that the Steelers threepeat in 2015, 2016, & 2017.)