Our "worst" off season move?

**TeeTee** · 05-22-2015 04:43 PM

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2...n-move/page/26

Agree best one was in re-signing Ben.

But the "worst" was going in another direction than LeBeau? That's the worst, but then they went on to admit we were 18th in limiting teams to yards and were 6th from the bottom in stopping the pass.

For whatever reason, LeBeau was not getting it done and Butler couldn't wait any longer to get a DC gig. He waited for many years.

Had the Steelers went with a "business as usual" approach, and kept Dick, who would have, no doubt, wanted to keep Polamalu, I'd considered boycotting and not really following them until they work up.

I think it was overdue to make those moves. By the way, Rooneys were inviting Dick back, but NOT as DC. That is why they parted ways, and I applaud the Rooneys for realizing the appropriate moves to make.

**SteelerFanInStl** · 05-22-2015 06:30 PM

It was time for the Steelers to move on from LeBeau. I love the guy as much as anyone but it was time.

I don't know if giving that position to Butler was the right move though. I would have preferred to go outside the organization but Butler certainly has waited long enough for his chance. We'll see how it works out.

**GBMelBlount** · 05-22-2015 07:17 PM

Originally Posted by SteelerFanInStl

I don't know if giving that position to Butler was the right move though. I would have preferred to go outside the organization but Butler certainly has waited long enough for his chance. We'll see how it works out.

Butler may just be at the right place at the right time and get some props as this could be a season of transformation for this young defense.

**Count Steeler** · 05-22-2015 09:56 PM

All depends if Landry Jones is still on the roster come the start of the season.

Sorry LeBeau, but it was time.

**Chidi29** · 05-23-2015 11:27 AM

Not like the Steelers had many moves to choose from to be considered the worst.

**86WARD** · 05-23-2015 12:03 PM

Keeping Landry Jones (even as a camp arm) is the worst non-move?

**hawaiiansteeler** · 05-23-2015 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by Chidi29

Not like the Steelers had many moves to choose from to be considered the worst.

I initially thought letting Brice McCain leave to Miami in free agency instead of retaining him for what seemed like a very reasonable contract was a bad move.

however, McCain is an average CB at best and I'm happy about the Steelers drafting Golson and Grant so it may not have been such a bad move after all...

**Mojouw** · 05-23-2015 01:04 PM

Interesting Landry Jones fact, I read a comparison of his and Gradkowski's preseason stats from last year (can't find the link now) but they are basically identical except for one key difference - sacks. Jones took about a half dozen of them. So basically, what we can infer from that, is that Jones does not "fee/sense" pressure and/or doesn't go through his progressions quickly enough.

Basically, Jones has remained what he was when the Steelers drafted him. A big guy with a nice arm from a gimmicky college offense. Shame he hasn't seemed to progress much, as he has all the physical ability in the world to play the position.

**TeeTee** · 05-23-2015 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by Chidi29

Not like the Steelers had many moves to choose from to be considered the worst.

Well, not that I think any particular move was horrible, but moving on from Dick was no way the worst move. I would argue it was one of their best moves. I mean, not signing McCain back would be a much more appropriate "worst move" than moving on from Dick. Allowing Worilds to retire could be claimed (I don't think he's a big loss.) One could argue that not adding a NT could be the worst. (I feel this entire D is based on superior NT play and between the guys we got, I don't see it. The last two times out D dropped was right after Steed left and then again after Hampton.) Almost ANY moves should be considered less damaging than moving on from LeBeau.

**Chidi29** · 05-23-2015 09:02 PM

Originally Posted by TeeTee

Well, not that I think any particular move was horrible, but moving on from Dick was no way the worst move. I would argue it was one of their best moves. I mean, not signing McCain back would be a much more appropriate "worst move" than moving on from Dick. Allowing Worilds to retire could be claimed (I don't think he's a big loss.) One could argue that not adding a NT could be the worst. (I feel this entire D is based on superior NT play and between the guys we got, I don't see it. The last two times out D dropped was right after Steed left and then again after Hampton.) Almost ANY moves should be considered less damaging than moving on from LeBeau.

Well they did offer a contract to McCain. They didn't willingly let him go like LeBeau.

Were they supposed to handcuff Worilds to the doors of Heinz Field? The dude retired. Can't control that.

I'm just saying it's not like the Steelers are ever very active in the offseason. And there aren't a whole lot to choose from. I think your post illustrates my point well.

**86WARD** · 05-23-2015 11:34 PM

I wouldn't claim losing Worilds a big loss at all...I'd actually call it a great move. He wasn't good and he made waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much money.

**steelreserve** · 05-24-2015 03:14 AM

Keeping Cam Thomas on the roster for $2 million a year, while Terrance Knighton signed as a free agent for only $4 million. Not only did we miss a chance at a big upgrade to IMO our biggest weakness after CB, we missed a chance to do it at almost no cost. There were other decent players out there too if we didn't get Knighton. Instead we're left with question marks.

Other than that, I really can't complain too much. The draft had me ready to tear my hair out at times as we were going through it, but in the end we got almost exactly what we needed. No important players got away; other than Keisel and (sort of) McCain, all the ones gone were dead weight. LeBeau and Polamalu were the big-name losses, but we could all see it was time for both.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by 86WARD

I wouldn't claim losing Worilds a big loss at all...I'd actually call it a great move. He wasn't good and he made waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much money.

You're not kidding. Outside of the draft, this was probably the #1 best roster transaction that happened for us all offseason.

**TeeTee** · 05-24-2015 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by Mojouw

Interesting Landry Jones fact, I read a comparison of his and Gradkowski's preseason stats from last year (can't find the link now) but they are basically identical except for one key difference - sacks. Jones took about a half dozen of them. So basically, what we can infer from that, is that Jones does not "fee/sense" pressure and/or doesn't go through his progressions quickly enough.

Basically, Jones has remained what he was when the Steelers drafted him. A big guy with a nice arm from a gimmicky college offense. Shame he hasn't seemed to progress much, as he has all the physical ability in the world to play the position.

Well, he does have one, other MAJOR deficiency: lack of accuracy. That's a deal breaker; you can't be an NFL QB and lack accuracy. Jones himself admitted last preseason that he need to throw more accurately. Well, if you in your 2nd year as a pro, and had all those other years in college and HS and you still can't throw the ball with accuracy, I doubt in year 3 of the NFL, you all of a sudden find accuracy. He stinks. He isn't repairable. If he fills a roster spot, someone is a huge fool.

**TeeTee** · 05-24-2015 02:15 PM

Originally Posted by 86WARD

I wouldn't claim losing Worilds a big loss at all...I'd actually call it a great move. He wasn't good and he made waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much money.

I totally agree with you. I'd only want him back near league minimum and could be persuaded that even that wouldn't be wise. The only reason I brought him up was that it COULD be argued that even the loss of him was more of a blow than losing LeBeau. That's all I was saying. Our D will be improved THIS YEAR due to us going in a different direction. I believe that.

**Mojouw** · 05-24-2015 06:22 PM

Originally Posted by TeeTee

Well, he does have one, other MAJOR deficiency: lack of accuracy. That's a deal breaker; you can't be an NFL QB and lack accuracy. Jones himself admitted last preseason that he need to throw more accurately. Well, if you in your 2nd year as a pro, and had all those other years in college and HS and you still can't throw the ball with accuracy, I doubt in year 3 of the NFL, you all of a sudden find accuracy. He stinks. He isn't repairable. If he fills a roster spot, someone is a huge fool.

I think Jones is basically a bust as a prospect as well. My only point was that his "accuracy" -- if based on completions and interceptions was identical to Gradkowski's in the last preseason. The only statistical difference between the two was the sacks. It makes me think that Jones' biggest problem is not with a lack of physical ability, it is between his ears. He came from one of those gimmicky one read pistol/shotgun spread offenses in college and has clearly struggled with the mental portions of playing from under center and in a far more complex pro scheme. If he looks no better this preseason, time to move on and roll the dice on a guy like Boyd.

**86WARD** · 05-24-2015 07:53 PM

Cam Thomas sticking is maybe worse than Landry Jones...

**Count Steeler** · 05-25-2015 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by 86WARD

Cam Thomas sticking is maybe worse than Landry Jones...

I'm hoping they come to their senses through training camp.

**86WARD** · 05-29-2015 07:51 PM

I actually thought of the worst move. Keeping Danny Smith as the Special Teams coach, IMO, was by far the worst move. Worse than Archer, worse than Landry Jones...Smith was beyond terrible last year and really didn't get any better.

**Chidi29** · 05-30-2015 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by 86WARD

I actually thought of the worst move. Keeping Danny Smith as the Special Teams coach, IMO, was by far the worst move. Worse than Archer, worse than Landry Jones...Smith was beyond terrible last year and really didn't get any better.

Woah...don't hear that one often. Care to expand?

**86WARD** · 05-30-2015 09:08 PM

Terrible returns. Undisciplined returns. Stupid penalties. Through the first five games of the season 25% of the teams drives started inside their own 20. 13% started inside their own 11. Yet Smith failed to make a change? The penalties were obscene...have been for the last few seasons. 27th in Kick Return Average, 29th in Punting, 11th in Punt Returns...of course due to Antonio Brown and Shaun Suisham was a bright spot...wasn't much better in 2013...

This coming season better be a make or break for Smith...IMO.

**Chidi29** · 05-30-2015 10:43 PM

Originally Posted by 86WARD

Terrible returns. Undisciplined returns. Stupid penalties. Through the first five games of the season 25% of the teams drives started inside their own 20. 13% started inside their own 11. Yet Smith failed to make a change? The penalties were obscene...have been for the last few seasons. 27th in Kick Return Average, 29th in Punting, 11th in Punt Returns...of course due to Antonio Brown and Shaun Suisham was a bright spot...wasn't much better in 2013...

This coming season better be a make or break for Smith...IMO.

Penalties were ugly in the year but they went away as the season went on. That's attributed to good coaching and getting his guys to play cleaner.

The coverage units were spectacular and made up for the return unit. Steelers shut down some serious threats last year. Bottled up guys like Pacman Jones, De'Anthony Thomas, and Jacoby Jones in the playoff game.

From the little I've seen, I love his energy and passion for the game. Gets the most out of his guys.

**86WARD** · 05-31-2015 08:36 AM

The coverage units were good. Penalties were heavy early in the season, but they were pretty consistent all season...averaging 1.412 Special Teams penalties a game isn't good coaching in my book. They had 3 games with no special teams penalties, 6 games with multiple penalties...

In contrast, teams playing the Steelers committed 15 penalties on Special Teams...average of .882 per game.

Even if you take out the first 5 games (Steelers - 13; Opponents - 7) and the Steelers still average .917 per game versus their opponents .667 over the same games.

IMO, his coaching was awful over the season, sure the returns got better once Wheaton was in there but the penalties continued.

Shamarko Thomas' Unnecessary Roughness call in the Ravens playoff game gave the Ravens 15 yards to take them from their 22 to their 37. Ended that drive with a 52-Yard FG. Did it make or break that game? Not really...but it arguably gave the Ravens 3 points that wasn't necessary.

But the series of back-to-back offensive off-sides calls (one off-setting) in the Jacksonville game is inexcusable...poor coaching IMO when your players aren't disciplined enough to stay on-sides. SUre you can argue that it's earlier in the season, but then we're really just trying to justify it...

This season should be a make or break IMO...he's on borrowed time in my book.

**Count Steeler** · 05-31-2015 08:39 AM

DHB on the "hands" team.

**86WARD** · 05-31-2015 08:44 AM

Originally Posted by Count Steeler

DHB on the "hands" team.

lol. 'nuff said?

**Chidi29** · 05-31-2015 11:03 AM

Originally Posted by 86WARD

The coverage units were good. Penalties were heavy early in the season, but they were pretty consistent all season...averaging 1.412 Special Teams penalties a game isn't good coaching in my book. They had 3 games with no special teams penalties, 6 games with multiple penalties...

In contrast, teams playing the Steelers committed 15 penalties on Special Teams...average of .882 per game.

Even if you take out the first 5 games (Steelers - 13; Opponents - 7) and the Steelers still average .917 per game versus their opponents .667 over the same games.

IMO, his coaching was awful over the season, sure the returns got better once Wheaton was in there but the penalties continued.

Shamarko Thomas' Unnecessary Roughness call in the Ravens playoff game gave the Ravens 15 yards to take them from their 22 to their 37. Ended that drive with a 52-Yard FG. Did it make or break that game? Not really...but it arguably gave the Ravens 3 points that wasn't necessary.

But the series of back-to-back offensive off-sides calls (one off-setting) in the Jacksonville game is inexcusable...poor coaching IMO when your players aren't disciplined enough to stay on-sides. SUre you can argue that it's earlier in the season, but then we're really just trying to justify it...

This season should be a make or break IMO...he's on borrowed time in my book.

Everything got better though is the point. That is what coaches are supposed to do.

Three penalties over the final six weeks of the season. After the ugly first six weeks of the year, only once did they have multiple penalties in a game. All clear signs of the unit adjusting because they knew they had to get better.

**tube517** · 05-31-2015 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by Chidi29

Everything got better though is the point. That is what coaches are supposed to do.

Three penalties over the final six weeks of the season. After the ugly first six weeks of the year, only once did they have multiple penalties in a game. All clear signs of the unit adjusting because they knew they had to get better.

I propose you do a breakdown of Danny Smith's tenure for an SD article. (If you take requests

)

I'm not a fan of his because I just don't see a year to year consistency from that unit, coverage wise. It would help if he could find the lost hybrid child of Ray Guy and Reggie Roby.

**Chidi29** · 05-31-2015 12:20 PM

Originally Posted by tube517

I propose you do a breakdown of Danny Smith's tenure for an SD article. (If you take requests

)

I'm not a fan of his because I just don't see a year to year consistency from that unit, coverage wise. It would help if he could find the lost hybrid child of Ray Guy and Reggie Roby.

I've done a little bit on some specifics of the unit. DHB's value to the team, poor blocking that hindered Archer. Latter just went up today.

I do find it very difficult, across the board, to evaluate coaches. Hard to evaluate personnel vs teaching. What Smith does, or doesn't do, is largely behind closed doors and we don't get to evaluate it.

Personnel is an issue though in some areas. Needing to find consistency at punter. Looking for a reliable return man. Those are things out of Smith's control.

And like I said, from the little I got to see at those 15 practices, he is as high-energy and enthusiastic dude as ANY coach on this team. And there's a lot of good ones. He brings it every day and that's what you need from your ST coach. Get guys excited about playing there. Letting them realize they matter. A lot of these guys didn't have to do it much in their career. They were starters in college. Great talents. Didn't have to take their lumps playing the wedge or acting as a jammer. Now they are at the bottom of the pile and have to realize their value and care about doing a great job.

**tube517** · 05-31-2015 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by Chidi29

I've done a little bit on some specifics of the unit. DHB's value to the team, poor blocking that hindered Archer. Latter just went up today.

I do find it very difficult, across the board, to evaluate coaches. Hard to evaluate personnel vs teaching. What Smith does, or doesn't do, is largely behind closed doors and we don't get to evaluate it.

Personnel is an issue though in some areas. Needing to find consistency at punter. Looking for a reliable return man. Those are things out of Smith's control.

And like I said, from the little I got to see at those 15 practices, he is as high-energy and enthusiastic dude as ANY coach on this team. And there's a lot of good ones. He brings it every day and that's what you need from your ST coach. Get guys excited about playing there. Letting them realize they matter. A lot of these guys didn't have to do it much in their career. They were starters in college. Great talents. Didn't have to take their lumps playing the wedge or acting as a jammer. Now they are at the bottom of the pile and have to realize their value and care about doing a great job.

Well, if anyone can do it, you can, being a true student (yeah, I know you graduated! lol) of the game.

Great article on DHB, by the way.

**Chidi29** · 05-31-2015 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by tube517

Well, if anyone can do it, you can, being a true student (yeah, I know you graduated! lol) of the game.

Great article on DHB, by the way.

Thank you tube. Totally didn't realize it but another writer just did a profile of Smith. Not X's and O's but nice to know his background.

**hawaiiansteeler** · 05-31-2015 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by 86WARD

Terrible returns. Undisciplined returns. Stupid penalties. Through the first five games of the season 25% of the teams drives started inside their own 20. 13% started inside their own 11.

I remember actually cheering for touchbacks so we would at least get the ball out at the 20...

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