RE-CAP: Let the Hate Flow through You

[teegre]

Another week, another article from The Point of Pittsburgh.

Let the Hate Flow through You
by Tiger Rowan

For football junkies, there is no worse “low” than the week right after the draft. The juxtaposition between an entire week of media sensationalism and the newsless drought that follows is a shock to the system of football aficionados. Worse yet, I truly believe that this impending withdrawal is foreseen by the majority of Steelers fans, wherein the subconscious release of their underlying anger (caused by the realization that there will be no NFL news for two months) culminates during draft weekend.

Case in point: Steelers fans’ reactions to the Steelers selecting Senquez Golson (CB, Mississippi) in the second round. If you listened to (or read) some Steelers fans’ reactions, you would have thought that Golson had beaten a puppy...

Read more:
http://www.thepointofpittsburgh.com/...w-through-you/

Enjoy!!

[CaSteel]

I'll be the 1st to admit that the Golson picks scares me, with the size of WRs,TEs and Rbs in the NFL 175lbs is very small. I can say that the Steeler fans are more upset that the Steelers didn't seem to determined to draft one of the top 5 CBs in this years draft. Only time will tell if Golson is a Hit or a Miss but with this team neglecting it's need for CBs the last 3 seasons they deserve whatever criticism comes their way

[Lady Steel]

In other words, I guess what I am really trying to say is: Dad, it is alright to stop texting me pictures of Oompa Loompas with the caption “Our second-round draft pick” written underneath.

Your dad needs to join us here at SU!

Another great read, Tiger. Good job!

[teegre]

Your dad needs to join us here at SU!

Another great read, Tiger. Good job!

My favorite dad text was from a few years back, when Mike Adams was drafted. It was a simple text... which made it even funnier:

"Weed!!!"

[teegre]

I'll be the 1st to admit that the Golson picks scares me, with the size of WRs,TEs and Rbs in the NFL 175lbs is very small. I can say that the Steeler fans are more upset that the Steelers didn't seem to determined to draft one of the top 5 CBs in this years draft. Only time will tell if Golson is a Hit or a Miss but with this team neglecting it's need for CBs the last 3 seasons they deserve whatever criticism comes their way

I hear your concerns, but let me retort with this:

Many of the top teir WRs in the NFL are smaller, shifter guys: AB, Emmanual Sanders, OBJ, Victor Cruz, TY Hilton, Golden Tate, Jeremy Maclin... Teams need smaller, shifter CBs to counter these types of receivers.

[steelreserve]

I, for one, think the concerns about Golson's size are way overblown. There are a ton of guys in all sports who are successful despite playing against bigger opponents. Very few plays are going to involve a straight-up jumping contest against a 6'5" receiver, especially if we don't tend to assign him to cover them. And if you are matched up against a guy who's 6'5", your fundamentals and general coverage skills are far more important than height. Even if the receiver has a 10-inch height advantage, the QB is not going to throw him the ball if he's well-covered.

You also have to consider that even the "tall" defensive backs are not 6'4" and 6'5", they're 6' and 6'1". No matter what, you're giving up some size against the biggest receivers. So you're talking about a difference of maybe four inches. That can easily vanish if the smaller guy times his jump a couple hundredths of a second better than the taller guy. And no - no matter how good a QB is, none of them are going to consistently fit the ball into a 3-4 inch window if the pass otherwise would've been incomplete. Not a big deal to me.

What really happened is that everyone looked at Seattle's defense, went "OMG TALL DEFENSIVE BACKS!!!" and lemminged them so there was a premium put on tall DBs. I was still surprised by this pick though, because Golson was not on my radar and I hadn't heard much about him. In hindsight, though, maybe we ended up with the better pure football player. Have to wait and see. But whichever way it turns out, I don't think size will have a lot to do with it.

[teegre]

I, for one, think the concerns about Golson's size are way overblown. There are a ton of guys in all sports who are successful despite playing against bigger opponents. Very few plays are going to involve a straight-up jumping contest against a 6'5" receiver, especially if we don't tend to assign him to cover them. And if you are matched up against a guy who's 6'5", your fundamentals and general coverage skills are far more important than height. Even if the receiver has a 10-inch height advantage, the QB is not going to throw him the ball if he's well-covered.

You also have to consider that even the "tall" defensive backs are not 6'4" and 6'5", they're 6' and 6'1". No matter what, you're giving up some size against the biggest receivers. So you're talking about a difference of maybe four inches. That can easily vanish if the smaller guy times his jump a couple hundredths of a second better than the taller guy. And no - no matter how good a QB is, none of them are going to consistently fit the ball into a 3-4 inch window if the pass otherwise would've been incomplete. Not a big deal to me.

What really happened is that everyone looked at Seattle's defense, went "OMG TALL DEFENSIVE BACKS!!!" and lemminged them so there was a premium put on tall DBs. I was still surprised by this pick though, because Golson was not on my radar and I hadn't heard much about him. In hindsight, though, maybe we ended up with the better pure football player. Have to wait and see. But whichever way it turns out, I don't think size will have a lot to do with it.

Great post.

When I was on another board, the debate was always: Is AB too short to be any good? Even last year, his height was harped on... over & over.

Admitedly, you can't teach height. But, I'm also a firm believer that some players just "get it." Troy was only 5'10... but, he always seemed to time his jumps perfectly... and, timing & body control are far more important than being tall.

Ike Taylor once said that the toughest guy for him to cover was Steve Smith. Small & shifty is a bitch to deal with as a CB, and I'm betting that it goes the other way, too (WRs can't juke the small & shifty CBs).

[ALLD]

Tall WRs and TEs will run Golson over. Physics is the concern. Dri Archer is a more extreme example. He simply cannot get through a line of NFL players. Competition is much higher at the NFL level and what might work at the amateur level does not necessarily transfer to the professional level. Boxing is another example.

[Steeltreal]

U get 2 Unanimous All-Americans (DBs) in the 2nd and 7th Round. WIN

[steelreserve]

Tall WRs and TEs will run Golson over. Physics is the concern. Dri Archer is a more extreme example. He simply cannot get through a line of NFL players. Competition is much higher at the NFL level and what might work at the amateur level does not necessarily transfer to the professional level. Boxing is another example.

It's a lot easier to cause somebody to fall down than it is to remain standing up when someone is trying to bring YOU down. If it was just about size, you could just hand the ball to Casey Hampton every time and nobody could stop him.

The weight is the only thing that concerns me a little. That might give him trouble jamming people at the line, or getting blocked out of the play. Hopefully he's developed some ways to deal with that over the course of his career.

Those differences are probably a lot more pronounced in something like boxing, although I did get a good laugh out of imagining Floyd Mayweather trying to fight a guy who has 8 inches and 80 pounds on him, and the guy just puts his hand on his forehead and he can't reach. Hell, I'd probably be an awesome welterweight fighter myself, if everyone else had to follow the weight limit but I was allowed to stay the same size. Good times.

[ALLD]

The boxing reference was for when amateurs turn pro. If they are point machines most likely they do not have enough power to knock somebody out. Not very good at the professional level. Boxers are matched by weight, usually within 3-5 pounds of each other at weigh-in before the fight. A tall skinny dude with a bird chest will not be able to take a punch anyway.

[ETL]

- - - Updated - - -

Nice read Teegre. I wrote a long post on SF when people were blasting William Gay on a late game play where a flag was thrown - somewhat controversially. It cost the Steelers the game. But I pointed out how everyone's opinion would be completely different if the ref decided not to throw the flag.

I pointed out how their deepest held truths and convictions about this player named Gay could be easily overturned if this random back judge had decided not to throw the flag. What Gay did and who Gay was would not have changed but if this Ref had not thrown the flag - everyone's opinion of Gay would be 180 degrees different.

Basically a lot of fans are shallow. They judge things based on superficial things and are quick to react. Often they contradict themselves because they can't recall what they said at the height of their emotions. i suspect there are fans such as this with every team. Sometimes it's their passion for the team that make them spew out these hateful angry posts but it doesn't excuse them from sounding stupid in the long run

[GBMelBlount]

Okay… and, the point is what exactly? The best cornerback to come out of the 2014 NFL draft was Jason Verrett, who has almost the exact same measurables as Golson.

http://www.thepointofpittsburgh.com/...w-through-you/

Very few plays are going to involve a straight-up jumping contest against a 6'5" receiver, especially if we don't tend to assign him to cover them.

And if you are matched up against a guy who's 6'5", your fundamentals and general coverage skills are far more important than height.

Even if the receiver has a 10-inch height advantage, the QB is not going to throw him the ball if he's well-covered.

This and this.

[SteelerFanInStl]

The best cornerback to come out of the 2014 NFL draft was Jason Verrett

This is the first time that I've heard anyone say that Verrett was the best CB from the 2014 class. He certainly wasn't the highest rated going into the draft and wasn't the first CB selected. Nor did he play the best in the 2014 season before his injury.

E.J. Gaines outplayed all of the CBs drafted before him in his first season in the NFL and he wasn't taken until the 6th round. A number of these 'top rated' CBs didn't play well at all. Doran Grant reminds me of E.J. and that's a good thing.

[teegre]

Tall WRs and TEs will run Golson over. Physics is the concern. Dri Archer is a more extreme example. He simply cannot get through a line of NFL players. Competition is much higher at the NFL level and what might work at the amateur level does not necessarily transfer to the professional level. Boxing is another example.

Good points. And, some counterpoints:

1. True. Sometimes a good college player doesn't translate to the NFL. That said, Golson's biggest attribute (ballhawking) is one of those traits that does translate.

2. Head-to-head: yes, a tall WR would be able to knock him over. That said, Golson missed zero tackles in college.

3. The Steelers don't have to line him up against another team's tall WR; Golson can cover the smaller WR. Regardless, even if Golson covered the taller WR, how many truly "good" tall WRs are there in the NFL? Calvin Johnson & AJ Green are tall, but they are good receivers who also happen to be tall; their height is a bonus. There are many "tall" receivers who simply can't catch, can't get open, can't play. In other words, teams have to double-cover Megatron & Green anyway... so, in those games, Golson will have help; with the majority of the other tall WRs, Golson should be fine.

[teegre]

U get 2 Unanimous All-Americans (DBs) in the 2nd and 7th Round. WIN

Spot on.

- - - Updated - - -

It's a lot easier to cause somebody to fall down than it is to remain standing up when someone is trying to bring YOU down. If it was just about size, you could just hand the ball to Casey Hampton every time and nobody could stop him.

The weight is the only thing that concerns me a little. That might give him trouble jamming people at the line, or getting blocked out of the play. Hopefully he's developed some ways to deal with that over the course of his career.

Those differences are probably a lot more pronounced in something like boxing, although I did get a good laugh out of imagining Floyd Mayweather trying to fight a guy who has 8 inches and 80 pounds on him, and the guy just puts his hand on his forehead and he can't reach. Hell, I'd probably be an awesome welterweight fighter myself, if everyone else had to follow the weight limit but I was allowed to stay the same size. Good times.

Good points. Great post.

- - - Updated - - -

- - - Updated - - -

Nice read Teegre. I wrote a long post on SF when people were blasting William Gay on a late game play where a flag was thrown - somewhat controversially. It cost the Steelers the game. But I pointed out how everyone's opinion would be completely different if the ref decided not to throw the flag.

I pointed out how their deepest held truths and convictions about this player named Gay could be easily overturned if this random back judge had decided not to throw the flag. What Gay did and who Gay was would not have changed but if this Ref had not thrown the flag - everyone's opinion of Gay would be 180 degrees different.

Basically a lot of fans are shallow. They judge things based on superficial things and are quick to react. Often they contradict themselves because they can't recall what they said at the height of their emotions. i suspect there are fans such as this with every team. Sometimes it's their passion for the team that make them spew out these hateful angry posts but it doesn't excuse them from sounding stupid in the long run

We'll have to trade in the "Gay Meter" for the "Golson Meter."

Alas, it doesn't have quite the same ring to it.

[teegre]

This is the first time that I've heard anyone say that Verrett was the best CB from the 2014 class. He certainly wasn't the highest rated going into the draft and wasn't the first CB selected. Nor did he play the best in the 2014 season before his injury.

E.J. Gaines outplayed all of the CBs drafted before him in his first season in the NFL and he wasn't taken until the 6th round. A number of these 'top rated' CBs didn't play well at all. Doran Grant reminds me of E.J. and that's a good thing.

[/FONT][/COLOR]

What's interesting about EJ Gaines is that on my old message board, we all wanted him. On draft day, we watched him drop, and drop, and drop. Ugh.

Anyway, he & Verrett played better than the more highly touted CBs in that draft.

[BigNastyDefense]

Who we have rated as the top 5 CB's and who the Steelers had rated as the top 5 are obviously two different lists.

Everyone talks about how he will get run over by taller WR's and TE's. Last I checked, most TE's aren't covered by a CB because most of them are too small to cover them. They are typically covered by LB's or S's.

Second, Golson can tackle. He's got good technique. Hell, maybe he can teach Holliman how to wrap up. Tackling is more about how you do it than size. Otherwise nobody would have ever tackled guys like Bettis or TO.

[SteelerFanInStl]

What's interesting about EJ Gaines is that on my old message board, we all wanted him. On draft day, we watched him drop, and drop, and drop. Ugh.

Anyway, he & Verrett played better than the more highly touted CBs in that draft.

I live in St Louis so I got to watch E.J. play a lot when he was with Mizzou. He always stood out and always made plays. I still remember the game against Texas A&M when he shut down Evans.

I knew that people were selling him short just because he wasn't 6' tall and didn't run a 4.3 40. I pushed him here quite a bit before the draft and hated that we kept passing on him. He's got the great intangibles that you look for in a football player.

[Mojouw]

I think Fuller, if he hadn't gotten injured, would be viewed as the best CB from last years class.

Agree with those that say until we see evidence otherwise, Golson's height/weight is not a concern. Have to also look at the Steelers system and what they ask their corners to do. They do not ask them to jam at the line that often. They don't really man up too often. They play off the LOS and run a ton of zone. This is actually where Golson shines (and even Holliman to an extent). The big issue is can Golson support against the run? The Steelers have a record of smaller corners that could accomplish that with Townsend and Gay to name some recent ones. Antoine Winfield was around Golson's size and he was far more than adequate in run support.

[teegre]

I live in St Louis so I got to watch E.J. play a lot when he was with Mizzou. He always stood out and always made plays. I still remember the game against Texas A&M when he shut down Evans.

I knew that people were selling him short just because he wasn't 6' tall and didn't run a 4.3 40. I pushed him here quite a bit before the draft and hated that we kept passing on him. He's got the great intangibles that you look for in a football player.

Before that draft, everyone on the other board that I was on, was ga-ta over Mike Evans.

@hawaiiansteeler & I kept saying: "Gaines shut Evans down."

Nope... people kept iterating: too small, too slow.

- - - Updated - - -

Agree with those that say until we see evidence otherwise, Golson's height/weight is not a concern. Have to also look at the Steelers system and what they ask their corners to do. They do not ask them to jam at the line that often. They don't really man up too often. They play off the LOS and run a ton of zone. This is actually where Golson shines (and even Holliman to an extent). The big issue is can Golson support against the run? The Steelers have a record of smaller corners that could accomplish that with Townsend and Gay to name some recent ones. Antoine Winfield was around Golson's size and he was far more than adequate in run support.

Great post.

As far as run support goes: Golson gets it done. Is it a SportCenter highlight? No. Does he slow down the RB enough? Yes.

Again, Golson's zero missed tackles is telling.

[SteelerFanInStl]

Again, Golson's zero missed tackles is telling.

Most definitely. He's had plenty of opportunities in college to go up against big receivers and he's fared pretty well.

I think that if we already had an established #1 CB, people would be going crazy over Golson.

[vrabinec]

I hear your concerns, but let me retort with this:

Many of the top teir WRs in the NFL are smaller, shifter guys: AB, Emmanual Sanders, OBJ, Victor Cruz, TY Hilton, Golden Tate, Jeremy Maclin... Teams need smaller, shifter CBs to counter these types of receivers.

Isn't it funny that we're now referring to Emmanuel Sanders as "top tier"?

[86WARD]

Isn't it funny that we're now referring to Emmanuel Sanders as "top tier"?

He's far from "top-tier" IMO. That's left for Megatron, AB, Julio Jones...not Manny Sanders...

[teegre]

He's far from "top-tier" IMO. That's left for Megatron, AB, Julio Jones...not Manny Sanders...

5th is receptions
5th in yards receiving

- - - Updated - - -

Isn't it funny that we're now referring to Emmanuel Sanders as "top tier"?

I know, huh.

People didn't want him, but I always felt he was a undrated receiver.

- - - Updated - - -

Most definitely. He's had plenty of opportunities in college to go up against big receivers and he's fared pretty well.

I think that if we already had an established #1 CB, people would be going crazy over Golson.

Amen.

If I were the DC, I'd lock Golson on the opposing team's #2, in single coverage... and use a bracket (with Allen/Gay and the safety) on their #1.

[Born2Steel]

I prefer the approach of letting these guys get in 2-3 years of NFL game experience before I call them a bust or a steal. All of these draft picks are Steelers today. That's always been enough for me in the past, and I hope will continue to be enough. Go Steelers! That is all.

[86WARD]

5th is receptions
5th in yards receiving

- - - Updated - - -



I know, huh.

People didn't want him, but I always felt he was a undrated receiver.

- - - Updated - - -



Amen.

If I were the DC, I'd lock Golson on the opposing team's #2, in single coverage... and use a bracket (with Allen/Gay and the safety) on their #1.

He's good. He's not "top-tier" until he does it on a consistent basis...and he's not a receiver one would take to start a franchise over an AB, Megatron, Dez Bryant, Julio Jones...even AJ Green. That's just my opinion.

[teegre]

He's good. He's not "top-tier" until he does it on a consistent basis...and he's not a receiver one would take to start a franchise over an AB, Megatron, Dez Bryant, Julio Jones...even AJ Green. That's just my opinion.

What you are saying is true, to a degree. Regardless, my point is this: there is a bevy of short, swift receivers out there. Whether they are considered "top tier" or "elite" or even whether or not they would even be considered a "#1 receiver"... whatever the label, they are out there... and they're racking up yards & receptions**... and they need to be covered.

**Last year, six of the top ten receiving leaders (yards, receptions), were short/swift: AB, Sanders, Maclin, Hilton, Tate, & OBJ.

[Mojouw]

What you are saying is true, to a degree. Regardless, my point is this: there is a bevy of short, swift receivers out there. Whether they are considered "top tier" or "elite" or even whether or not they would even be considered a "#1 receiver"... whatever the label, they are out there... and they're racking up yards & receptions**... and they need to be covered.

**Last year, six of the top ten receiving leaders (yards, receptions), were short/swift: AB, Sanders, Maclin, Hilton, Tate, & OBJ.

It is a reaction against the run of tall WRs and then taller DBs. Now the "value" is in the little guys. Can draft them later, taller CBs struggle to stay with them. The key is you have to have a relatively accurate QB to make the most of them.

Heck, it wasn't too long ago that "smurf" WRs were all the rage. How tall were all those dudes Warren Moon threw to? Elway in the '80's - I think all the "amigos" were short. Wasn't everyone but Art Monk short for those late 80's early 90's Redskins squads?

For me, the thing to do is build a varied WR corps. Steelers, Packers, Giants, and a few others seem to be doing this. Some tall guys, some short/quick guys, some burners, some possession types, etc. Or you can go the Tampa Bay, Chicago route and just have it be all jump balls all the time.

[teegre]

It is a reaction against the run of tall WRs and then taller DBs. Now the "value" is in the little guys. Can draft them later, taller CBs struggle to stay with them. The key is you have to have a relatively accurate QB to make the most of them.

Heck, it wasn't too long ago that "smurf" WRs were all the rage. How tall were all those dudes Warren Moon threw to? Elway in the '80's - I think all the "amigos" were short. Wasn't everyone but Art Monk short for those late 80's early 90's Redskins squads?

For me, the thing to do is build a varied WR corps. Steelers, Packers, Giants, and a few others seem to be doing this. Some tall guys, some short/quick guys, some burners, some possession types, etc. Or you can go the Tampa Bay, Chicago route and just have it be all jump balls all the time.

Ebb & flow. Everything is cyclical. Even the running game is coming back into fashion (although, due to pass-friendly rules, it'll never be as prominent as it was fifteen years ago).

Washington had the Fun Bunch and the Smurfs. Denver had the Three Amigos. Pittsburgh had the Young Money Crew... uh... hmmm.

CBs get big, WRs get small. CBs get small, teams run at them. ILBs get big, teams pass. ILBs get small, teams run. D-linemen get big, O-linemen get athletic. D-linemen get athletic, O-linemen become road graders. Et cetera.