Re-Grading Pittsburgh Steelers' Past 5 Drafts

[Mojouw]

Unless they were "star" players guys from the 2010 draft class would be too expensive (on 2nd contracts) to keep as "depth" anyways. So that point kinda goes away.

There is no way that the 2002 draft is anyhow related to success. Kiesel and Foote are clearly the best players from that class. They are not guys who put a team over the hump and win a championship.

If anything, it was the 03 and o4 drafts that put this team in a position to win SBs. A franchise QB and an elite HOF level talent to build your defense around. You can have all the 2002 type classes you want. I will take top-heavy drafts like 2003 and 2004.

Also the draft is solely about identifying and selecting talent. So Keenan Lewis and Emmanuel Sanders certainly do count. Multiple other NFL teams had a chance to take those two players, and they took other prospects instead. Some turned out ok -- others did not.

As to Jason Worilds -- not my favorite guy at all BUT he posted 25.5 sacks in 5 seasons. Guys drafted +/- a year or so from Worilds outside of the first round as pass rushing OLB:

Akeem Ayers - 13 sacks
Justin Houston - 48.5 sacks
Courtney Upshaw - 3 sacks
Sergio Kindle - 0 sacks
Victor Butler - 11 sacks
Cliff Avril - 52.5 sacks
Phillip Wheeler - 5.5 sacks
Justin Durant - 3.5 sacks
J. Sheard - 23.0 sacks
Sam Acho - 13 sacks
P. McPhee - 17 sacks
L. Houston - 17.5 sacks
O. Schofield - 13.5 sacks
C. Barwin - 38.5 sacks
P. Kruger - 31.5 sacks
Q. Grove - 9.5 sacks

The point is (and I'm sure no one but me cares) we need to be realistic when generating player comparisons and standards for performance. Other than 4 of the players listed, Worilds was better at his primary task - rushing the passer. Now did WOrilds need to be taken in the 2nd round of that draft? That is a question that can never be answered. But he did ultimately perform about as well as a 2nd round pass rusher can be expected to.

The days of pulling league leading sack guys out of the 2nd and 3rd day of the draft are simply over. And yes, you can start listing the exceptions to that. I'm talking general trends. CBs, QBs, LTs, and edge rushers are the new overdrafted positions in the NFL. Used to be WR and TE, and that has fallen off a bit.

[hawaiiansteeler]

This draft deserve an A

[86WARD]

perhaps so , however if you are going to attribute the " Manning Factor" you also have to attribute the " Ben Factor " and I would go on record and say Ben is a LOT closer to Manning in ability than anything the Jets have trotted out at QB since Decker arrived in NY than the distance of any of those are to Ben ... and it is not even close

That's why I put the ? there. But even Sanders as a 3 was better than Decker as a one IMO.

[steelreserve]

Somebody must have had too many IC Lights when they drafted Archer.

More like Mad Dog 20/20 if you ask me.

Unless they were "star" players guys from the 2010 draft class would be too expensive (on 2nd contracts) to keep as "depth" anyways. So that point kinda goes away.

There is no way that the 2002 draft is anyhow related to success. Kiesel and Foote are clearly the best players from that class. They are not guys who put a team over the hump and win a championship.

If anything, it was the 03 and o4 drafts that put this team in a position to win SBs. A franchise QB and an elite HOF level talent to build your defense around. You can have all the 2002 type classes you want. I will take top-heavy drafts like 2003 and 2004.

Also the draft is solely about identifying and selecting talent. So Keenan Lewis and Emmanuel Sanders certainly do count. Multiple other NFL teams had a chance to take those two players, and they took other prospects instead. Some turned out ok -- others did not.

If we didn't have the 2002 class, I don't think we'd be in a position to trade half a draft to move up for Polamalu. And who knows whether Ben would've been the "missing piece" if we'd had holes all throughout the rest of the offense and defense. I said it "set us up" to be successful for a reason, not "it was what made us into champions." Getting four solid starters (Hope and Simmons were on that same mid-high level as Foote and maybe a bit below Kiesel) plus a couple of legitimate role players is huge.

Having a good football team is not about having all star players. You can't. It's just as much about not having weak links. Our problem in recent years has never been lacking a core of star players. It's been that after five or six key players, we've missed on so many picks that we end up relying on guys like Jonathan Scott, Ryan Mundy, or the Redman/Dwyer combo ... we keep banging our heads against the wall with guys like Ziggy Hood or Jason Worilds after it should've been obvious they were not suitable for everyday use ... a team that's half stars and half Achilles' Heels is going to be dragged down more to the level of the latter. You need those mid-range and depth guys, and we've been way short on that. Which is why I don't think a draft with two superstars and then eight whiffs can be anything other than a B or B-. I know I'm in the minority for thinking that way, but not terribly concerned about that either.

[polamalubeast]

More like Mad Dog 20/20 if you ask me.





If we didn't have the 2002 class, I don't think we'd be in a position to trade half a draft to move up for Polamalu. And who knows whether Ben would've been the "missing piece" if we'd had holes all throughout the rest of the offense and defense. I said it "set us up" to be successful for a reason, not "it was what made us into champions." Getting four solid starters (Hope and Simmons were on that same mid-high level as Foote and maybe a bit below Kiesel) plus a couple of legitimate role players is huge.

Having a good football team is not about having all star players. You can't. It's just as much about not having weak links. Our problem in recent years has never been lacking a core of star players. It's been that after five or six key players, we've missed on so many picks that we end up relying on guys like Jonathan Scott, Ryan Mundy, or the Redman/Dwyer combo ... we keep banging our heads against the wall with guys like Ziggy Hood or Jason Worilds after it should've been obvious they were not suitable for everyday use ... a team that's half stars and half Achilles' Heels is going to be dragged down more to the level of the latter. You need those mid-range and depth guys, and we've been way short on that. Which is why I don't think a draft with two superstars and then eight whiffs can be anything other than a B or B-. I know I'm in the minority for thinking that way, but not terribly concerned about that either.

The 2010 draft is not the problem

[hawaiiansteeler]

The 2010 draft is not the problem

the 2008 draft certainly was...

[teegre]

with these examples I stayed with players selected after the Steelers in the same round ( only 14 selections to pick from ) I did not venture to next round in any of the selections
( or could have counted way more valid picks ) sure it is all hindsight but that is what a regrade is hindsight

did not count supplemental picks or picks acquired by trade Holmes for the Antonio Brown selection

2010 RD1 we took Pouncey

could have taken Demaryius Thomas , Bryan Bulaga , ( head case but hard to argue production ) Dez Bryant

RD2 Jason Worilds .... could have had Carlos Dunlap , Sean Lee

RD3 Emmanuel Sanders ... could have had Eric Decker , Jimmy Graham

RD4 Thaddeus Gibson .... could have had Geno Atkins , Al Woods

RD5 Chris Scott ..... could have had Riley Cooper

RD6 Jonathan Dwyer ...could have had James Stark

I love Pouncey. On another board, I've debated "Pouncey vs. Bulaga" with a guy for years. He & I have made no ground; so, simply, maybe we should agree to disagree on that pick.


Rating a draft based on missed picks would make sense, if some team were drafted ALL of those players. But, no one did. The Saints got Jimmy Graham, but not Dez Bryant & Sean Lee. The Cowboys got Dez Bryant & Sean Lee, but not Brian Bulaga & James Stark. The Packers got Brian Bulaga & James Stark, but not Pouncey & AB. Et cetera...


If teams were routinely drafting Pro Bowler after Pro Bowler, in all seven rounds, then I'd agree: basing a draft grade on opportunities missed would make sense. But, the truth is that no one is routinely nailing drafts like that. Every few years, someone does indeed have a rainmaker draft, but that's the outlier (not the norm).


Compared to the 1974 draft, the 2010 draft would get a C-. But, graded on a curve/compared to recents drafts by other teams, the 2010 draft is a helluva draft.


SIDENOTE: A buddy & I once redrafted each draft, taking any R2 player in R1... and, any R3 player in R2... and, so on. It's amazing what one can do with hindsight.

[Jaucer]

More like Mad Dog 20/20 if you ask me.





If we didn't have the 2002 class, I don't think we'd be in a position to trade half a draft to move up for Polamalu. And who knows whether Ben would've been the "missing piece" if we'd had holes all throughout the rest of the offense and defense. I said it "set us up" to be successful for a reason, not "it was what made us into champions." Getting four solid starters (Hope and Simmons were on that same mid-high level as Foote and maybe a bit below Kiesel) plus a couple of legitimate role players is huge.

Having a good football team is not about having all star players. You can't. It's just as much about not having weak links. Our problem in recent years has never been lacking a core of star players. It's been that after five or six key players, we've missed on so many picks that we end up relying on guys like Jonathan Scott, Ryan Mundy, or the Redman/Dwyer combo ... we keep banging our heads against the wall with guys like Ziggy Hood or Jason Worilds after it should've been obvious they were not suitable for everyday use ... a team that's half stars and half Achilles' Heels is going to be dragged down more to the level of the latter. You need those mid-range and depth guys, and we've been way short on that. Which is why I don't think a draft with two superstars and then eight whiffs can be anything other than a B or B-. I know I'm in the minority for thinking that way, but not terribly concerned about that either.

I for one pretty much agree. I'll put it this way. I come from a small rural school area in mid-west Ohio. The high school team is a perennial powerhouse and has won 4 straight state championships and 6 since 2002 with several other runner-ups. Most would think they had some great talent but out of all of that I think they've had 1 maybe 2 D1 recruits. The reason they are so successful is that they don't rely on any one player to be a star. They don't have any big name players but what they have is a bunch of hard working above average talent. I've told many around that 8 out of the 11 players on each side of the ball will be better than the players against them but by not much in most cases. Usually 1 player on each side of the ball and sometimes that is the same player is going to be much better than his opponents equal. Add all that slightly better talent and it equals a much better team. We don't need a bunch of stars. We need a bunch of better than average players that have the desire to work together.

Instead of trying to find the next all star I'd prefer the Steelers to get back to drafting a bunch of hard working blue collar FOOTBALL players. As Dwins has said many a time, it's all about what they show on tape. Draft football players first and athletes second. Stock pile a bunch of better than average players even if not a position of need and the team will end up much better in the long run. As a businessman I am always looking to upgrade talent even if it isn't in an area of pressing need.

[Mojouw]

The Decline in the defense was related to the fall off in star players. Worilds is the Larry foote of olbs.

What hurt was that Aaron Smith retired. Hampton declined. Woodley got hurt. Farrior retired. Taylor got old. Polamalu got old. Those are star players. Players capable of changing the course of a game. Not saying they have to all be 1st round picks, but star players win games.

[polamalubeast]

The depth is important, but it is the stars that allows a team to be a Super Bowl contender


The problem of the steelers in defense is that the Steelers have no stars in this defense....If you add 2 stars in defense in the next draft as it was the case in 2010 in offense, it will make a big difference

[86WARD]

Agreed. Hartwig sucked, and almost singlehandedly cost us a Super Bowl to boot. Pouncey was a HUGE upgrade at the position from day one, even if he is a knucklehead off the field at times.

And I admit, center isn't the most "sexy" position to burn a first round pick on, but if the pick affords you the luxury of not having to worry about the position for 12-15 years afterward, it's kinda worth it, IMO.

Hartwig makes me cringe...but not quite as much as the name Mahan...ugh...

[teegre]

Hartwig makes me cringe...but not quite as much as the name Mahan...ugh...

Hartwig = Ewoks

Mahan = Jar Jar Binks

[tube517]

Hartwig = Ewoks

Mahan = Jar Jar Binks

Hartwig = Alonzo Jackson

Mahan = Huey Richardson

[steelreserve]

The 2010 draft is not the problem

Never said it was. But it wasn't quite the smash success some are making it out to be either. All I said was a B or B- was about right. We did well on a couple of picks, but that's all.

An "A" draft to me is when you get three or four important players. No, that doesn't happen very often. You don't draft on a curve, and no one is going to pity-pass you.

[hawaiiansteeler]

More like Mad Dog 20/20 if you ask me.

ooh, that brings back some memories of my youth.

they're all a little blurry though for some reason...

[teegre]

Hartwig = Alonzo Jackson

Mahan = Huey Richardson

Hartwig = constipation

Mahan = having explosive diarrhea while surrounded by bikini models

[86WARD]

Hartwig = HIV

Mahan = AIDS

[zulater]

Sanders was a good 3rd round pick and he was a very valuable player for this team. Yeah I understand he had a breakout year in Denver, but the insinuation if not outright assertion that he was an unproductive player as a Steeler is ludicrous. You could see early last season that Ben was really missing him. And it's not just how many catches you make, but it's also your presence on the field. Drawing coverage keeping defenses honest. You can give me that sort of value out of a 3rd round pick any year you want.

[teegre]

Hartwig = HIV

Mahan = AIDS

[zulater]

Hartwig = HIV

Mahan = AIDS

Legurskey= full blown aids with herpes simplex 3

[steelreserve]

Cody Wallace: Bruised testicle

Not an analogy about his skill level; that's just what he'll do to you in real life.

[tube517]

Legurskey= full blown aids with herpes simplex 3

Jonathan Scott = The Clap

[teegre]

This thread is gold!!!

[zulater]

Cody Wallace: Bruised testicle

Not an analogy about his skill level; that's just what he'll do to you in real life.

[86WARD]

Cody Wallace: Bruised testicle

Not an analogy about his skill level; that's just what he'll do to you in real life.

Lol.

[86WARD]

Legurskey= full blown aids with herpes simplex 3

I don't know...Legursky played pretty well in the biggest stage on short notice...maybe he's more like chlamydia or gonerrheoa?