Butler On Defensive Scheme: 'We Will Run The 3-4, But We Will Run Some 4-3 Also'

[polamalubeast]

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2015/01...-run-4-3-also/

[Psycho Ward 86]

Versatility, I like it. Time will tell.

[Dwinsgames]

we already have been doing this in subpackage football ... nothing new really

but is he going to start series in a 4-3 and others in a 3-4 ? that is the bigger question ( which is the primary formation and emphasis on who you draft etc )

[TXSTEELER75]

I like the versatility. I'm assuming in the 4-3 package Timmons will be the MLB, and Shazier lining up at the OLB. I could see promise in Worilds with him lining up in the down position. This will be very interesting.

[polamalubeast]

Steelers Depot @Steelersdepot · 7m 7 minutes ago
When the #Steelers were in their 3-4 base on 1st down in 2014 they allowed 8.74 yards per pass play. That includes the 6 sacks.

https://twitter.com/Steelersdepot

[Steelerette]

"Identifying as 3-4" is a couple rungs below "Block Numbers" as far as things I want to cling to. (For serious, bring back the block numbers.) If McCullers sharpens up into a solid NT, the answer to the question "Do we have the right personnel for 3-4" changes from "no" to "yes" IMO. But irrespective of that - you play the defense that fits your players, and you play the defense that will stop the other team. If he's being honest about that versatility - then I'm on board. Then again, it's just semantics; we ran a lot of 4-3 scheme this season anyway.

[86WARD]

we already have been doing this in subpackage football ... nothing new really

but is he going to start series in a 4-3 and others in a 3-4 ? that is the bigger question ( which is the primary formation and emphasis on who you draft etc )

My first thought exactly.

[Psycho Ward 86]

we already have been doing this in subpackage football ... nothing new really

but is he going to start series in a 4-3 and others in a 3-4 ? that is the bigger question ( which is the primary formation and emphasis on who you draft etc )

'We Will Run The 3-4, But We Will Run Some 4-3 Also'

hard to make it any clearer than that

[Dwinsgames]

'We Will Run The 3-4, But We Will Run Some 4-3 Also'

hard to make it any clearer than that

if you take it as said , in other words nothing has changed but the name in the media guide with the title of DC ( except the level of experience in the man with the title )

[Texasteel]

Theres an old saying. Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it. Dick is gone, sorta, and Butler's now the man. If things change or stay remarkably the same we may not know till the season starts. Either way, we need more talent on the defensive side of the ball, mostly in the D-backfield.

[86WARD]

Parnell McPhee. Byron Maxwell.

[steelreserve]

Should be the obvious move. IF WE GO 4-3, WE DON'T NEED TO DRAFT 4 DIFFERENT POSITIONS ON DEFENSE, JUST DBs. If we can't see that, we need a clue.

[Dwinsgames]

Should be the obvious move. IF WE GO 4-3, WE DON'T NEED TO DRAFT 4 DIFFERENT POSITIONS ON DEFENSE, JUST DBs. If we can't see that, we need a clue.

who plays Rush DE ? in a 4-3 you better have a dominant one and a better than average one ( plus depth for both spots )

I see NO dominant Rush DE on our roster I see a bunch of Good to great DT types , I see some average DEs but if pressure is what you crave this group as it stands needs help in a 4-3

[Psycho Ward 86]

Parnell McPhee. Byron Maxwell.

Hear hear. Locking down Maxwell and one other cornerback in the draft that can make an instant impact could make the CB group immediately stacked if Cortez pans out

[86WARD]

if you take it as said , in other words nothing has changed but the name in the media guide with the title of DC ( except the level of experience in the man with the title )

QFT

[86WARD]

Hear hear. Locking down Maxwell and one other cornerback in the draft that can make an instant impact could make the CB group immediately stacked if Cortez pans out

Even if Cortez could be a nickel back for now...it would be a vast improvement...

[Moose]

Just PLEASE do away with that DAMN 5 yrd cushion the damn CB's give !!!!! Damnit !

[Bluecoat96]

Even if Cortez could be a nickel back for now...it would be a vast improvement...

Where would Will Gay fit in to all of this?

[86WARD]

I'd say probably the other starter until the "new guy" is up to speed?

[pepsyman1]

Just PLEASE do away with that DAMN 5 yrd cushion the damn CB's give !!!!! Damnit !

I can deal with the 5 yard cushion, it's when they are giving an 8-10 yard cushion that I want to throw something thru my TV set. It's usually on a 3rd and 5 too!

[steelreserve]

who plays Rush DE ? in a 4-3 you better have a dominant one and a better than average one ( plus depth for both spots )

I see NO dominant Rush DE on our roster I see a bunch of Good to great DT types , I see some average DEs but if pressure is what you crave this group as it stands needs help in a 4-3

So what? Even in that situation, the 4-3 SOLVES the linebacker position, it SOLVES the DT position, both of which are definite problems according to most here ... and it leaves us with one new maybe-problem that, worst case, is no more difficult to solve that either of the problems specific to the 3-4. The scenario you described is still way, WAY better than needing both NT and OLB as everyone seems to think we will in the 3-4.

As of now you gain in the 4-3 by making a serviceable player out of McLendon; between him, McCullers and Tuitt you have a great group of tackles; Heyward at one end basically doing what he does now, which is rush the passer, only that'd be the main point of a DE in that scheme ... if he is excellent at rushing as a 3-4 DE, I don't see how he'd be any less good at it in a 4-3. The other end is murky - you could try Jones there as 4-3 DEs can be lighter ... then again, everyone seems to think that Jones is unfit to play any position in either a 4-3 or 3-4, so I guess we might as well declare him a bust based on 8 or so full games as a pro and move on, right?

Maybe the other DE is someone not on the roster yet, but that gives us one problem to solve instead of two with the 3-4, with one of them (NT) being a difficult position. We already have a difficult position to fix (multiple DBs) and the odds of us completely addressing that, let alone a third tough-to-find player, are close to zero.

For the record, a high-pressure defense is not necessarily what I think we would need in the 4-3. It doesn't depend as much on that. What it DOES do is let dependable players be an asset while being just that - dependable. Then you're not looking at the impossibility of things like like Arthur Moats having 12 sacks or Steve McLendon manhandling two 300-pound offensive linemen at once, and going "oh shit, we need new players." They can just do what they're good at and it will help, and it doesn't have to be so boom-or-bust. It would not likely be the exciting, dynamic defense we were used to 6 or 7 years ago, but it would be a better defense than trying to make that out of parts that don't work. We are not reaching for the moon here - we need a defense that is respectable enough to give Ben, Bell and Brown a shot at winning the game, and what we have now isn't that. If we want it to be respectable while Ben still walks without a cane, taking several years to rebuild the rubble into another dominant 3-4 is not the way to do it. Especially when we continually pass over the necessary pieces anyway. This is the quickest way to get where we need to go with what we have, and involves a lot less lucky breaks and theoretical bullshit.

[Steeldude]

'We Will Run The 3-4, But We Will Run Some 4-3 Also'

hard to make it any clearer than that

But it sounds like he might be leaning more toward 4-3 as the primary when reading the quotes below...

Yes. I also think there’s still a place for the 3-4, and the reason I think there’s still a place for it is because you also have to be versatile as a defense as offenses are trying to be versatile

With what offenses are doing nowadays in the National Football League, they’re playing a lot of three wide receivers and a tight end and a running back, for the most part. In those situations, we’re going to be in kind of a 4-3 anyway, but we’re still going to be able to run the 3-4 also

[Psycho Ward 86]

you guys are over complicating this and thinking too deeply in terms of players being pure 3-4 'this position' players or 4-3 'this position' players. players nowadays need some of that versatility anyways. terrell suggs for example was basically a fringe 3-4 OLB and fringe 4-3 DE for a huge chunk of his career and excelled at it. yes yes, i realize we dont have a terrell suggs on this team, but versatility is the point im trying to make. this thread is making it sound as if we teams in the NFL are in their base defense even 80% of the time

[Dwinsgames]

you guys are over complicating this and thinking too deeply in terms of players being pure 3-4 'this position' players or 4-3 'this position' players. players nowadays need some of that versatility anyways. terrell suggs for example was basically a fringe 3-4 OLB and fringe 4-3 DE for a huge chunk of his career and excelled at it. yes yes, i realize we dont have a terrell suggs on this team, but versatility is the point im trying to make. this thread is making it sound as if we teams in the NFL are in their base defense even 80% of the time

to be a fringe player in both schemes at OLB or DE size is the all important factor ... you cant have 240 pound guys playing DE on one snap and OLB on the next ( will be completely ineffective as a DE) those players are forced to be Woodley size ( or Suggs size ) 6'2-6'4 260-270

so 6'2 -245 Jarvis Jones becomes obsolete .... Howard Jones obsolete ..... and many others as well because those players can not play both spots and you can not rotate players every other play to keep teams unbalanced when teams will go hurry up on you when they feel they have a personnel advantage .......

would it work , could it work ...certainly but just like anything else you have to have the right players in order to do so ............

[steelreserve]

So we make Jones obsolete, who everyone has been writing off as a bust anyway as a 3-4 OLB, and THAT is supposed to be the big problem with a 4-3? Doesn't sound to me like that changes much.

[Texasteel]

So we make Jones obsolete, who everyone has been writing off as a bust anyway as a 3-4 OLB, and THAT is supposed to be the big problem with a 4-3? Doesn't sound to me like that changes much.

I'm not quite ready to write off Jones yet. I thought Jones played pretty well before he got hurt. I would like to see him play out one more season. I can remember a lot of people ready to write of Timmons at this point. I was one of them. Turns out we were wrong.

[Mojouw]

If you think the pass rush was bad with a 3-4, watch how bad it would be with the same roster in a 4-3. Might have the backers for it. Shazier as the outside coverage guy. Timmons in the middle and Jones on the other edge. Still, without a pass-rusher in the down 4 you would basically have the Bengals defense.

If they want to manufacture sacks/pressure some 3-4 hybrid is the "easiest" path personnel wise. Draft should be telling.

[Bluecoat96]

If you think the pass rush was bad with a 3-4, watch how bad it would be with the same roster in a 4-3. Might have the backers for it. Shazier as the outside coverage guy. Timmons in the middle and Jones on the other edge. Still, without a pass-rusher in the down 4 you would basically have the Bengals defense.

If they want to manufacture sacks/pressure some 3-4 hybrid is the "easiest" path personnel wise. Draft should be telling.

I don't know. I think Heyward would be a f*cking monster in a 4/3, wherever he plays on the line. I really think he's that good.

[Steelman]

If you think the pass rush was bad with a 3-4, watch how bad it would be with the same roster in a 4-3. Might have the backers for it. Shazier as the outside coverage guy. Timmons in the middle and Jones on the other edge. Still, without a pass-rusher in the down 4 you would basically have the Bengals defense.

If they want to manufacture sacks/pressure some 3-4 hybrid is the "easiest" path personnel wise. Draft should be telling.

Except the Bungles actually have a decent secondary.

I don't foresee a huge shift into 4-3 this season, Butler might have some ideas, but I don't think he'd rock the boat that heavily so soon. UNLESS (and this is something I've wondered, with the LeBeau force-out) Tomlin wants to get his paws on the defense and decides he wants to go Cover-2.

What happens to Tuitt in a 4-3, isn't he basically tailor-made for the Aaron Smith position in a 3-4?

[Steeltreal]

As long as he doesn't drop Heyward into coverage in the Red zone like an ass or anytime at all really.