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Thread: If the Steelers miss the playoffs....?

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    Re: If the Steelers mis the playoffs....?

    Quote Originally Posted by zulater View Post
    The sad thing about Landry Jones is that if this team had recognized what they had in Brian Hoyer at the end of the 2012 season then they likely don;t waste that 4th round pick on Jones. Ryan Clark recognized his talent, said it was obvious he had a major league arm and good qb sense. But somehow it completely escaped our coaching staff?
    Actually when Pittsburgh released Hoyer Arizona jumped on him. Before Gradkowski was signed they wanted to bring him back to be the backup but Arizona tagged him as a RFA. Ultimately Palmer and Stanton were brought in he was released and Cleveland jumped on him.

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    Re: If the Steelers miss the playoffs....?

    I think the coaching has to be more of a problem than the talent on the roster. We have quite the history of having "great drafts" as judged right after draft day, that somehow turn into crap anyways. Who's developing these players? As much as I don't want to open this can of worms - is Colbert really the problem? The one pick this draft that most people could have had a real problem with was obviously a Haley choice... (and for the record I like the Archer pick but if we're doing these stupid things on the field, what does it matter?)

    My prediction - if Colbert is canned, he signs on someplace like Buffalo or Oakland and builds a perennial contender... not saying he's perfect but can you honestly say we're doing a good job cultivating our talent? Some players just don't work out to their obvious potential, but it happens with us far too much to be coincidence.

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    Re: If the Steelers miss the playoffs....?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steelerette View Post
    I think the coaching has to be more of a problem than the talent on the roster. We have quite the history of having "great drafts" as judged right after draft day, that somehow turn into crap anyways. Who's developing these players? As much as I don't want to open this can of worms - is Colbert really the problem? The one pick this draft that most people could have had a real problem with was obviously a Haley choice... (and for the record I like the Archer pick but if we're doing these stupid things on the field, what does it matter?)

    My prediction - if Colbert is canned, he signs on someplace like Buffalo or Oakland and builds a perennial contender... not saying he's perfect but can you honestly say we're doing a good job cultivating our talent? Some players just don't work out to their obvious potential, but it happens with us far too much to be coincidence.
    Considering that 2 whole drafts were pretty much wasted, especially when you consider how few players from those drafts are still playing elsewhere, I'd say Colbert's talent evaluation has been a large part of the problem.








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    Re: If the Steelers miss the playoffs....?

    Quote Originally Posted by zulater View Post
    Alex Smith is mobile. Neil was a statue.
    I'm talking more on the basis that they are what they are. ODonnells not gonna kill your team but he's not going to put the game on his shoulders and win it alone. He is what his supporting cast is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

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    Re: If the Steelers miss the playoffs....?

    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    I'm talking more on the basis that they are what they are. ODonnells not gonna kill your team but he's not going to put the game on his shoulders and win it alone. He is what his supporting cast is.
    Fair enough.
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

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    Re: If the Steelers miss the playoffs....?

    You said "IF" they miss the playoffs???? Are you serious? It's pretty much a given at this point that the way this team is currently playing, there's no freaking way they'll get a playoff seat. 2-4 if not 1-5 in our division is a realistic probability at this point.

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    Re: If the Steelers miss the playoffs....?

    Quote Originally Posted by plenewken View Post
    You said "IF" they miss the playoffs???? Are you serious? It's pretty much a given at this point that the way this team is currently playing, there's no freaking way they'll get a playoff seat. 2-4 if not 1-5 in our division is a realistic probability at this point.
    The thread was made before the Browns debacle. Silly me, I held up hope they could win that game. Had they done so, 4-2 isn't a longshot to make the playoffs.
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

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    Re: If the Steelers miss the playoffs....?

    Sorry, I didn't look at the date of the 1st post. My bad. After a couple of debacles and zero convincing wins (Carolina to me looked like an accident), I don't think they'll do better than 2-4 in the AFC North so the playoffs are pretty much a pipe dream.

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    Re: If the Steelers miss the playoffs....?

    Quote Originally Posted by zulater View Post
    If the Steelers miss the playoffs for the 3rd straight year do you think there would be some thought given to trading Ben? Remember 2015 is the last year of his current contract. He's in line for a big pay raise, if the team is so weakened that you haven't been able to make the playoffs 3 straight years why would you believe the 4th would be any different? You really want to commit that sort of salary cap space for an aging qb that hasn't advanced you to the playoffs for 3 straight years? Don't you think Bruce Arians and Pittsburgh west, or the Rams, two teams built to win now, but absent a quarterback wouldn't pay a nice price in draft picks to get Ben? Maybe even a player and picks for Ben? Aaron Donald and next year's 1 and 2 for Ben? Remember the Rams are loaded with extra picks from the RG III trade.


    Look I'm not trying to start shit. Well maybe a little I'm a huge Ben fan as anyone on this board knows. But seriously if we lose this week to Cleveland, which many of you think we will ( I don't, I think this will be a Steelers statement win) then if that happens then I think you probably are looking at another non playoff year. And if this team starts going off the rails don't be shocked if the Haley - Ben rift reopens or widens. Maybe even a Tomlin -Ben rift could be exposed.

    Also you have to consider that maybe we'd be better off with more of a game manager the next few seasons? I think LeVeon Bell is as good as back as there is in the league right now and for the next 4 or 5 years. Will Ben accept a smaller role in order to let Bell reach his full potential?

    Just food for thought folks. Not trying to troll, just think this is something that could crop up this offseason if we were to miss the playoffs again.


    But that all said I really don't think we will miss the playoffs. I think we start our run this week.

    Ok now I'll step aside and let everyone kill me.
    Here's the OP. Read it and outside of my prediction of a "statement win" against the Browns what's unreasonable about what was presented and how it was presented? And watch as the season unravels how the Ben- Haley- Tomlin chasm opens and grows. And then tell me something big isn't going to have to happen this offseason.
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

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    Re: If the Steelers miss the playoffs....?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    I suggested this last year around december and the vast majority was appalled at the thought ...

    it is not a "smart or dumb move " its a lateral move with long term potential gains at minimal $ but it could backfire too ...

    no move is without risk ...

    but with risk comes potential reward ..

    I just dont want Tomlin and Colbert making any long terms franchise moves for this team as they are why we are in the place we are right now
    I suggested this last September when the Steelers were mired in their 0-4 start.
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

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    If the Steelers miss the playoffs....?

    Cardinals and Palmer talking contract and hope to have it done soon. Guess the price for Ben was too high and the Steelers will just release him to sign Sanchez...seeing that "Ben's Buddy" is spending money on Palmer. But hey, ton of cash they'll save to spend on other holes!

    Last edited by 86WARD; 10-17-2014 at 11:09 AM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

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    Re: If the Steelers miss the playoffs....?

    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    Cardinals and Palmer talking contract and hope to have it done soon. Guess the price for Ben was too high and the Steelers will just release him to sign Sanchez...seeing that "Ben's Buddy" is spending money on Palmer. But hey, ton of cash they'll save to spend on other holes!


    What you think your some sort of smart ass?
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

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    Re: If the Steelers miss the playoffs....?

    I watched that Cleveland game and, the stat line doesn't come close to telling the whole story -- man, Hoyer is a player. Many of the backup guys we've let get away over the years (Omar Jacobs, etc) have been the right call, but I'd love having that guy as Ben's backup at this point.

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    Re: If the Steelers miss the playoffs....?

    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    Cardinals and Palmer talking contract and hope to have it done soon. Guess the price for Ben was too high and the Steelers will just release him to sign Sanchez...seeing that "Ben's Buddy" is spending money on Palmer. But hey, ton of cash they'll save to spend on other holes!

    Sanchez will be starting somewhere next season.
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

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    Re: If the Steelers miss the playoffs....?

    Quote Originally Posted by zulater View Post
    Sanchez will be starting somewhere next season.
    Hopefully not in Pittaburgh, unless of course the next Andrew Luck type prospect is entering the 2016 draft

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    Re: If the Steelers miss the playoffs....?

    Quote Originally Posted by st33lersguy View Post
    Hopefully not in Pittaburgh, unless of course the next Andrew Luck type prospect is entering the 2016 draft
    \
    No of course not. Houston or Buffalo would be two good guesses.
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

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    Re: If the Steelers miss the playoffs....?

    Quote Originally Posted by plenewken View Post
    You said "IF" they miss the playoffs???? Are you serious? It's pretty much a given at this point that the way this team is currently playing, there's no freaking way they'll get a playoff seat. 2-4 if not 1-5 in our division is a realistic probability at this point.
    And this is why I never post stuff like this in the first half of the season. I think we've all been around enough by now that we know this team can turn it around at any time and make a run for the playoffs. And, at this point, if the Browns win Thursday, we're tied for first place in the AFCN. If they lose, we're in second, with two shots at the team that's in first, and a game behind the "best teams" in the AFC.


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    Re: If the Steelers miss the playoffs....?

    Is it possible we could be looking at the last 4 games of Big Ben's Steelers career? That if in the last 4 games of this season Ben plays like he has in our last two losses the Steelers will decide the financial investment isn't worth it? That maybe it's time to pursue a game manager type qb and commit the offense to Lev Bell? And use whatever compensation you get back from trading Ben to start rebuilding the defense?


    I hate to say it, but I'm losing faith in Ben. I harken back to the old Roy Blount book about the 72 Steeler team "About 3 bricks shy of a load." and think that about sums up the argument about Ben being truly a franchise qb. This might come across as a knock but being totally realistic Ben just falls that little bit short of being a franchise quarterback. And if you're going to slant your game plans to a 60-40 or higher pass - run ratio with this defense backing you you've got to be more consistent than he's been. And I understand the offensive failings of this team don't fall strictly on Ben. The offensive line has also been inconsistent. He clearly hasn't got in proper sync with the new wide receivers. Haley certainly has more than a few shortcomings. But at the end of the day a great qb elevates the play of those around him more than occasionally. Many a Steeler fan will knock Peyton Manning because of his spotty post season play. But hey if stupid ass reality star playing special teams recovers an onsides kick attempt kicked right into his supposed wide receiver hands Peyton almost surely has as many SB rings as Big Ben. But regardless of that, what makes Peyton and Brady elite and Ben not so much is they do in fact elevate the play of the rest of the team around them. They win 10-14 games every year. Not only do the get you to the playoffs, they get you a first round bye more often than not.

    I might be wrong but in my opinion a Brady, Manning, Rodgers, and maybe even Brees would have elevated this Steeler team as it is to at least 10-12 wins given the relative ease of our schedule. That our offensive line deficiencies would be alleviated to a large extent by better defensive recognition by the qb. That the communication between the qb and the young receivers would be better at his point because the aforementioned qb's would have demanded it of them. That the defense would have been elevated by the offense setting a relentless pace that the other team would have been forced to match scores with. Thus forcing them into more predictable down and distance situations and pumping up your turnover total.

    And don't attack me and say I'm a Ben hater. I love Ben. I think he's borderline Hall of Fame and will eventually get in. I take nothing away from the success we've had with him as the qb. He was the perfect fit for this team from 2004-2012. He was as much or more important than anyone on the team through those years for the sustained success we enjoyed.

    But that was then this is now. Anyway bottom line is I think if the last 4 games go like the previous 3 then I think you can safely say that Ben can't win without a very strong defense backing him.
    That while he can competently take a turn at the wheel he can't drive the bus over the long haul like the truly elite qb's can. And if he's not truly elite, and can't win with a marginal defense is he really worth paying what the market will demand?

    I pray that Ben's play in these last four games will have me back here eating crow. But as of now I would say this just isn't going to work. Things aren't getting better and could easily get worse next year and beyond if a serious course correction isn't made.
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

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    Re: If the Steelers miss the playoffs....?

    This team isn't good enough to have a game-manager quarterback. You do that when you are stacked on defense, and we are nowhere close to that. All it would do is make our problems even worse.

    Besides, Ben was pretty good when we asked him to play the game-manager role. And considering that even Alex Smith makes $16M a year, along with basically any other quarterback that can stand up, we wouldn't be saving much money bringing in someone else to do it. $2M-$3M a season - can't get much for that, and certainly not worth it to throw some bum out there behind center. How many wins do you think we'd have with Kyle Orton at QB? It probably would not be enough to lead the NFC South.
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    Re: If the Steelers miss the playoffs....?

    Dump Ben? This defense isn't marginal - it's TERRIBLE, and the secondary is even worse than that. Add to that zero pass rush, which allows the likes of people like Mike Glennon and Brian Hoyer to burn it on a consistent basis, which proves that even scrub QBs in the NFL will chew you up if you give them all frigging day to throw. Sorry, but despite his recent struggles, Ben is among the least of this team's worries right now.

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    Re: If the Steelers miss the playoffs....?

    A trade to Arizona would ensure he gets to play at least one more game at Heinz Field. What a homecoming that would be.

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    Re: If the Steelers miss the playoffs....?

    Quote Originally Posted by steelreserve View Post
    This team isn't good enough to have a game-manager quarterback. You do that when you are stacked on defense, and we are nowhere close to that. All it would do is make our problems even worse.

    Besides, Ben was pretty good when we asked him to play the game-manager role. And considering that even Alex Smith makes $16M a year, along with basically any other quarterback that can stand up, we wouldn't be saving much money bringing in someone else to do it. $2M-$3M a season - can't get much for that, and certainly not worth it to throw some bum out there behind center. How many wins do you think we'd have with Kyle Orton at QB? It probably would not be enough to lead the NFC South.
    Solid points. But I don't necessarily agree. If you've got a good enough back you can run on a stacked defense. We did it with the Bus plenty of times. A physical attack will wear down a defense and keep the other offense off the field. Plus you set up play action, which doesn't require a great qb.

    And while Ben was a great game manager, I don't think he would willingly do it at this point in his career. Or maybe it's just that having him there makes it too difficult to commit to the running game. Half of having a great running game is committing to it. And when you have an established passer it's too easy to deviate from the running game at it's first failing.
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

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    Re: If the Steelers miss the playoffs....?

    Quote Originally Posted by fansince'76 View Post
    Dump Ben? This defense isn't marginal - it's TERRIBLE, and the secondary is even worse than that. Add to that zero pass rush, which allows the likes of people like Mike Glennon and Brian Hoyer to burn it on a consistent basis. Sorry, but despite his recent struggles, Ben is among the least of this team's worries right now.
    Dump him? No. Use him as a building block? Maybe? At least consider it.

    This team needs a nose tackle, one DE, at least one OLB, two safeties, and two CB's. If Ben can't overcome this year's sorry defense chances are he wont be able to next year either.
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

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    Re: If the Steelers miss the playoffs....?

    Great thread Zu.

    However franchise quarterbacks are few and far between.

    It is a crap shoot.

    I agree with the statement upstream...

    Ride Ben til the bitter end.
    "With love, with patience, and with Faith
    ....She'll make her way" ~ Natalie Merchant

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    Re: If the Steelers miss the playoffs....?

    Quote Originally Posted by zulater View Post
    Dump him? No. Use him as a building block? Maybe? At least consider it.

    This team needs a nose tackle, one DE, at least one OLB, two safeties, and two CB's. If Ben can't overcome this year's sorry defense chances are he wont be able to next year either.
    You're mentioning of Brees underlines the point - the Saints are 5-7 right now despite Brees as well, mainly because their defense might be even worse than ours. The Broncos, Patriots and Packers have far better defenses than ours right now. Hell, Von Miller and DeMarcus Ware alone probably have more sacks than our entire defense at the moment. Manning, Brady and Rodgers are not "doing it alone."

    Sure, trade Ben - but get ready for several 3-13/4-12 seasons if you do.

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    Re: If the Steelers miss the playoffs....?


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    Re: If the Steelers miss the playoffs....?

    Quote Originally Posted by fansince'76 View Post
    You're mentioning of Brees underlines the point - the Saints are 5-7 right now despite Brees as well, mainly because their defense might be even worse than ours. The Broncos, Patriots and Packers have far better defenses than ours right now. Hell, Von Miller and DeMarcus Ware alone probably have more sacks than our entire defense at the moment. Manning, Brady and Rodgers are not "doing it alone."

    Sure, trade Ben - but get ready for several 3-13/4-12 seasons if you do.
    Yet they beat us in Pgh. Plus even in the seasons the Saints have missed the playoffs it would be hard to accuse Brees of not carrying his share of the load. I mean he's throwing nearly 40 td's a year on average. How many of their losses came about from not scoring 20 or more points? Where with the Saints do you find comparable losses to us losing to the Jets and only scoring a tack on TD at the end?

    Lastly, several years of 2-5 win seasons might be what's necessary to bring about the organizational overhaul this team is badly in need of.
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

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    Re: If the Steelers miss the playoffs....?

    Quote Originally Posted by zulater View Post
    Yet they beat us in Pgh. Plus even in the seasons the Saints have missed the playoffs it would be hard to accuse Brees of not carrying his share of the load. I mean he's throwing nearly 40 td's a year on average. How many of their losses came about from not scoring 20 or more points? Where with the Saints do you find comparable losses to us losing to the Jets and only scoring a tack on TD at the end?
    Which also goes to show that anybody can beat anybody on any given Sunday. The point is, that even an elite QB like Brees isn't going to win with a lousy defense. And the current Steelers defense isn't passable or marginal, it STINKS.

    Like I said, trade Ben, and then watch how bad it really gets.

    And as far as comparable losses are concerned, here ya go. And division leader or not, with carrot top under center, the Bengals are, and will remain, a pretender.

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    Re: If the Steelers miss the playoffs....?

    Quote Originally Posted by zulater View Post
    Yet they beat us in Pgh. Plus even in the seasons the Saints have missed the playoffs it would be hard to accuse Brees of not carrying his share of the load. I mean he's throwing nearly 40 td's a year on average. How many of their losses came about from not scoring 20 or more points? Where with the Saints do you find comparable losses to us losing to the Jets and only scoring a tack on TD at the end?
    Our offense is fine.

    I wouldn't touch it except for a TE early next draft.

    As we knew coming into the season everything would hinge on our defense.

    They are young and inexperienced and the defense is very complex.

    So unfortunately they are just not near where they need to be and it may take another year of development for us to really know what we have.

    I also still wonder if a 4-3 would better suit our personnel.
    "With love, with patience, and with Faith
    ....She'll make her way" ~ Natalie Merchant

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    Senior Member Array title="zulater has a reputation beyond repute"> zulater's Avatar

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    Re: If the Steelers miss the playoffs....?

    Quote Originally Posted by GBMelBlount View Post
    Great thread Zu.

    However franchise quarterbacks are few and far between.

    It is a crap shoot.

    I agree with the statement upstream...

    Ride Ben til the bitter end.
    Trouble is that's probably how it is going to end. Very bitterly.

    Hey sorry I see a plane plunging into the sea. Just trying to figure the best way out of this death spiral. Truth is there may not be one?
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

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