"Bad Teams" the Steelers lost to Pre-Tomlin.

[Edman]

So the Steelers never lost to bad teams and bad quarterbacks? This was just a new Mike Tomlin thing. The Steelers never **** the bed under Cowher, huh? Well, let's take a look at all the Steelers losses to "inferior" teams under Cowher.

1992:

Steelers lose 30-6 in Chicago to the 5-11 Bears. Steelers favored by 3.5.
Steelers lose 17-3 in Green Bay to the 9-7 Packers.

1993:

Steelers lose 27-0 in Los Angeles to the 5-11 Rams. Rams QB. Steelers favored by 3.
Steelers lose 16-6 in Seattle to the 6-10 Seahawks and Rick Mirer. Steelers favored by 3.

1994:

Steelers lose 30-13 in Seattle to the 6-10 Seahawks and Rick Mirer again.
Steelers lose 20-17 in Arizona to the 8-8 Cardinals and Steve Beuerlein.

Also, Does anything more need to be said that the Steelers lost to Stan Humphries and the Chargers Twice in 1994?

1995:

Steelers lose 44-24 to the 8-8 Minnesota Vikings in Pittsburgh. Steelers favored by 5.5.
Steelers lose 20-16 to the expansion 4-12 Jacksonville Jaguars in Jacksonville. Steelers favored by 10.5.
Steelers lose 27-9 to Jeff Blake and the 7-9 Cincinnati Bengals in Pittsburgh.


1996:

Steelers lose 24-9 to the Jacksonville Jaguars in Jacksonville. Steelers favored by 4.5.
Steelers lose 23-13 to the 8-8 Houston Oilers in Houston. Steelers favored by 1.
Steelers lose 34-24 to Jeff Blake and the 8-8 Cincinnati Bengals in Cincy. Steelers favored by 4.

1997:

Steelers lose 23-20 to Bobby Hoying and the 6-9-1 Philadelphia Eagles in Philadelphia. Steelers favored by 3.

Steelers lose 16-6 to the 8-8 Tennesee Oilers in Tennesee. Steelers favored by 1.5.


1998:

Steelers lose twice to Jeff Blake and the 3-13 Cincinnati Bengals. Steelers favored in both matchups.

Steelers lose twice to the 8-8 Tennesee Oilers. Steelers favored big in Pittsburgh.

Steelers lose 23-9 to the New England Patriots in Pittsburgh. Steelers favored by 4.5.

1999:

Steelers lose 16-15 to the 2-14 Cleveland Browns in Pittsburgh. Steelers favored by 14.5.
Steelers lose 27-20 to the 4-12 Cincinnati Bengals in Pittsburgh. Steelers favored by 11.

2000:

Steelers lose 20-23 to the 3-13 Cleveland Browns in Cleveland. Steelers favored by 2.5.
Steelers lose 34-24 to the 7-9 Jacksonville Jaguars in Pittsburgh. Steelers favored by 3.

2001:

Steelers lose 26-23 to Jon Kitna and the Cincinnati Bengals in Cincy.

Steelers lose 24-17 in AFC Championship to the Patriots (Minus Brady) in Pittsburgh. Steelers favored by 10.

2002:

Steelers lose 24-6 to David Carr and the 2-14 Houston Texans in Pittsburgh. Steelers favored by 14.

2003:

Steelers lose 33-13 to Tim Couch and the 5-11 Cleveland Browns in Pittsburgh. Steelers favored by 7.

Steelers lose 30-14 to Tim Rattay and the 7-9 San Francisco 49ers in San Francisco.

Steelers lose 6-0 to Chad Pennington and the 6-10 Jets in New York.


So where am I going with this? Nothing. I'm just illustrating a point that embarrassing losses in winnable games to inferior/mediocre teams and shitty/nobody Quarterbacks is not a new Tomlin thing. This has been going on for many, MANY years.

Does it excuse what's happening now? Absolutely not. But before you crucify Tomlin, just remember this was allowed to go on in the Steelers organization for 15 years.

[polamalubeast]

When you're favorite by only 5 points or less,this is not a big upset...The two losses in 1999 were very bad, but the Steelers were bad in 1999.


But of course, no excuse to lose twice against the 3-13 Bengals in 1998....This is embarrassing

[steelreserve]

I guess one way to explain it is that I have no clue what I'm looking at now, or that I watched hundreds of games in the 1990s and early 2000s and don't remember anything about them.

Or, if the explanation is something other than "We're all complete fucking idiots with terrible memories and quite possibly blind," maybe it's that the coach really isn't doing so well. It sure looks that way. Ignore everything that happened before 2007, and it still looks that way.

I'm not on here to suck Cowher's dick or claim he was anything more than a good coach with some stubborn tendencies. But to suggest the current state of things is normal or acceptable is just cheerleading. "Hey, I'm sure they know what they're doing - just gotta believe harder!"

More to the point, of course we suffered some dumb losses in the past. Every team does from time to time. But I rarely remember there being this many, with this kind of regularity, or that we have looked this bad doing it. We do not look like a strong team having a bad day. We look inconsistent, clueless and lost. Big difference.


Lot of 8-8, 7-9 teams thrown in there, by the way.

[Craic]

Well, SR,

How about 2005, our superbowl year. We walked into Baltimore, a 2-7 team at the time, and lost 16-13 in OT. That started our three game slide that almost knocked us out of the playoffs.

Then, to reiterate the earlier post, 2003 season's a joke. But in 2002, when, again we were a playoff team, we played an expansion team And LOST. And talk about having no idea what we were doing, the Texans rushed 26 times for 37 yards, and completed on 3 passes for 33 yards. We, on the other hand, gave up 5 fumbles, committed 8 penalties, and choked our way to a loss. 2001, we played the Jags, a 6-10 team that season, and lost 21-3. Or that game the same year against Baltimore, another 6-10 team that hadn't won a game in seven weeks. But they come in and put up 544 yards on us. We turned the ball over 5 times!

Talk about looking like you don't belong on the field . . .

None of this is to give a pass to the current team. There are serious problems. But it should temper those of us who believe everything that happens today is the absolute best/worst/wildest thing that's ever happened! Instead, this team, unfortunately, is pretty much in line with the Steelers of the last 30 years when it comes to playing mediocre teams. The one positive I can take from it is that once Cowher brought his team out of their three year losing slump (something Tomlin has yet to have, by the way . . . a losing season), his next five years had only one or two games per year that we played bad against bad teams, rather than the two or three teams we seemed to lose to almost every year.

[polamalubeast]

The lost against the Ravens in 2005, it was without Roethlisberger and the Ravens were 6-2 at home in 2005

[GBMelBlount]

So basically "Any given Sunday"

[polamalubeast]

Losing against teams 7-9 or 6-10 on the road, it happens


Losing against a team of 4-12/5-11 or worse, it's a killer and it's not acceptable, especially if it happens often

- - - Updated - - -

The Steelers can still recover from this defeat, but the Steelers are very average since 2012(18-18 since 2012), so I do not think the Steelers will bounce back from this lost to make the playoffs

[Steeldude]

But the Steelers didn't have a QB from 1997 to 2001.

[st33lersguy]

I don't know how this gives me no right to criticize Tomlin, plus some of these entries I don't agree with at all. 8-8 teams should not be on there and including 9-7 teams in this is a joke. Also some of these teams finished better than Pittsburgh. Plus are you kidding me with including the 96 Jaguars as a bad team? Are you aware that this team went into Denver and upset a 13-3 Broncos team in the divisional round

[st33lersguy]

Well, SR,

How about 2005, our superbowl year. We walked into Baltimore, a 2-7 team at the time, and lost 16-13 in OT. That started our three game slide that almost knocked us out of the playoffs.

Then, to reiterate the earlier post, 2003 season's a joke. But in 2002, when, again we were a playoff team, we played an expansion team And LOST. And talk about having no idea what we were doing, the Texans rushed 26 times for 37 yards, and completed on 3 passes for 33 yards. We, on the other hand, gave up 5 fumbles, committed 8 penalties, and choked our way to a loss. 2001, we played the Jags, a 6-10 team that season, and lost 21-3. Or that game the same year against Baltimore, another 6-10 team that hadn't won a game in seven weeks. But they come in and put up 544 yards on us. We turned the ball over 5 times!

Talk about looking like you don't belong on the field . . .

None of this is to give a pass to the current team. There are serious problems. But it should temper those of us who believe everything that happens today is the absolute best/worst/wildest thing that's ever happened! Instead, this team, unfortunately, is pretty much in line with the Steelers of the last 30 years when it comes to playing mediocre teams. The one positive I can take from it is that once Cowher brought his team out of their three year losing slump (something Tomlin has yet to have, by the way . . . a losing season), his next five years had only one or two games per year that we played bad against bad teams, rather than the two or three teams we seemed to lose to almost every year.

I think you meant Cincinnati who finished 6-10. Baltimore finished 10-6 that year, and lost to Pittsburgh in the divisional round 27-10. Of course didn't Pittsburgh have home-field wrapped up by the time they played Cincy?

[Count Steeler]

I don't care about history beyond Mike Tomlin. In the past 3 years he has not shown that he is in charge of his crew. Poor talent will be exposed, but poor attitude and poor discipline need to be dealt with by the HC.

Give me a team that is fighting tooth and nails and leaving everything on the field, and then I can accept losing. But this display of excessive celebration and swagging when the game is not over is a reflection of the coach and his lack of discipline. To my eyes, the Steelers thought the game was over when they stopped Tampa on 4th down. I warned that there was still too much time and the offense had to get a first down. They didn't and we lost.

Attitudes have to change. If Tomlin is incapable, he needs to go.

[NCSteeler]

I don't care about history beyond Mike Tomlin. In the past 3 years he has not shown that he is in charge of his crew. Poor talent will be exposed, but poor attitude and poor discipline need to be dealt with by the HC.

Give me a team that is fighting tooth and nails and leaving everything on the field, and then I can accept losing. But this display of excessive celebration and swagging when the game is not over is a reflection of the coach and his lack of discipline. To my eyes, the Steelers thought the game was over when they stopped Tampa on 4th down. I warned that there was still too much time and the offense had to get a first down. They didn't and we lost.

Attitudes have to change. If Tomlin is incapable, he needs to go.

This is exactly how I feel

Copied from another thread

Watching the Patriots truly suck on defense. No talent but ya know what they are not getting penalties and when one guy did he got an ear full and sent to the locker room a play before halftime. I read an article today saying how this team plays with too much bravado for a twice 8-8 team sitting at 2-2. And that's the damn truth the coaches should be building some humility. I hope they are terribly embarrassed .

[Dwinsgames]

did not read everything so excuse me if this has already been said ....

but I see 9-7 and 8-8 teams listed here when it says " Bad teams" in the title ....

guess that is self admittance we are a bad team then ...

bad teams need to make changes or they remain bad teams

[fansince'76]

Copied from another thread

Watching the Patriots truly suck on defense. No talent but ya know what they are not getting penalties and when one guy did he got an ear full and sent to the locker room a play before halftime.

Just checked the score on yahoo - 24-0 KC. So with all due respect, I fail to see what the point is, especially when the HC of the team that is getting their lunch eaten is a so-called "genius." It's OK to suck as long as you do it "correctly?" Not being a smartass, but that's what I'm taking away from this.

[X-Terminator]

So basically what I'm reading is that history only matters when it suits the general narrative, in this case St. Cowher vs. Tomlin? You know who else does that? Politicians.

No revisionist history or selective memory, boys. The same shit happened under Cowher, and with FAR BETTER teams than they have now. And I absolutely remember all of the "Fire Cowher" calls/posts/rants whenever those losses happened, especially in 1999, 2000 and 2003. Bottom line, like Tomlin, he was not a perfect coach, and it's time that people who canonize him understand that.

[Shoes]

>snip<

But before you crucify Tomlin, just remember this was allowed to go on in the Steelers organization for 15 years.

And only under Tomlin were the Steelers schooled by such a player as Tim Tebow. Thats worth about 15 years alone.

[NCSteeler]

Just checked the score on yahoo - 24-0 KC. So, I fail to see what the point is, especially when the HC of the team that is getting their lunch eaten is a so-called "genius." Just saying...

My point is they are talentless and playing lousy but they can still maintain some discipline. I hate the hood as much as anyone. He's a cheating ass. But his team's have discipline that ours lack

[NCSteeler]

The whole cowher Tomlin bit is getting so old. It's as bad as the we need another Bettis type to win it makes no sense cowher made plenty of bone headed decisions and bad calls. What wears on me lately is this bs about Tomlin not having a losing season. It's just bs. Like 3-4 years of 8-8 is good enough

[X-Terminator]

>snip<




And only under Tomlin were the Steelers schooled by such a player as Tim Tebow. Thats worth about 15 years alone.

They lost to such luminaries as Bobby Hoying, David Carr and Tim Couch under Cowher.

[fansince'76]

They lost to such luminaries as Bobby Hoying, David Carr and Tim Couch under Cowher.

Not to mention the immortal Stan Humphries at home with a trip to the Super Bowl on the line.

[Shoes]

They lost to such luminaries as Bobby Hoying, David Carr and Tim Couch under Cowher.

They were still better than Tebow, at least they were able to stay on a team longer than 3 years.

[Dwinsgames]

Not to mention the immortal Stan Humphries at home with a trip to the Super Bowl on the line.

Stan Humphries was not nearly as bad as people remember .....

in fact one could argue ( and probably stand a solid chance at being successful at it ) that he was a better QB than the Steelers fielded that day ( career wise ) also the chargers where 11-5 that year after starting 0-4 winning 11 of their last 12 prior to the playoffs and beating a Dan Marino led Dolphins team in Miami for the right to play the Steelers

Humphries was selected by the Redskins in the sixth round of the 1988 NFL Draft. He made his first pro start in 1990 in Phoenix against the Cardinals with regular starter Mark Rypien sidelined with an injury. Humphries went on to pass for 1,015 yards and three touchdowns in seven games in 1990. He was traded to the San Diego Chargers before the start of the 1992 season following a preseason injury to starting Chargers QB John Friesz. The two teams ran the same offense, allowing Humphries to quickly make an impact. He passed for 3,356 yards, which ranked fifth in the league in 1992, leading the Chargers, who were 4-12 in 1991 and stumbled out to an 0-4 start in 1992, to finish with an 11-5 record, winning the AFC West and ending the Chargers' decade-long playoff drought. To this day, the 1992 San Diego Chargers are the only NFL team to make the playoffs after an 0-4 start.
He started for San Diego for six years, making 81 starts in 88 games while completing 1,431 of 2,516 passes for 17,191 yards and 89 touchdowns. San Diego was 47-29 in regular-season games and 3-3 in playoff contests he started from 1992 to 1997. He played with a separated left shoulder in the 1992 AFC Wild-Card Game, a 17-0 win over the Kansas City Chiefs, their first home playoff game since the 1980 AFC Championship game. Their season ended the next week in a 31-0 loss to the Miami Dolphins in the AFC Divisional Playoffs. The Chargers would win 62 percent of the games during the six years that he started.
In 1994, he led the Chargers with clutch performances through an impressive series of victories in the NFL Playoffs that started with the Chargers rallying from a 21-6 halftime deficit at home to defeat the Miami Dolphins (led by Hall of Fame quarterback Dan Marino) with a 22-21 victory in the AFC divisional playoffs, earning the Chargers a trip to the AFC Championship Game the next week at Pittsburgh. The Pittsburgh Steelers were favored by 10¹⁄₂ points, and some Steeler players the week prior to the game had made a Super Bowl rap video, assuming they would be the ones going to the Super Bowl. In what would become one of pro football's all-time great upsets, the Chargers again rallied from a 13-3 deficit late in the 3rd quarter and held off a furious last-minute Pittsburgh drive with a goal-line stand to win the AFC championship 17-13 at Pittsburgh's Three Rivers Stadium. Thus the Chargers earned a trip to Miami & Super Bowl XXIX, the first and only Super Bowl appearance in franchise history. They were greeted by 70,000 fans at San Diego Jack Murphy Stadium upon arriving back from Pittsburgh. Despite losing Super Bowl XXIX to the San Francisco 49ers 49-26, more than 100,000 fans greeted the Chargers when they arrived back in San Diego after the game. In all, Humphries led the Chargers to three playoff appearances and the franchise's only Super Bowl appearance, and in 1997, he was forced to leave the game after a series of concussions.
He was inducted into the San Diego Chargers Hall of Fame in 2002. In 2009, he was one of four quarterbacks named on the franchise's 50th anniversary all-time team.
In 2004, Humphries was also inducted by the San Diego Hall of Champions into the Breitbard Hall of Fame honoring San Diego's finest athletes both on and off the playing surface.^[1]
He is currently a commentator for college football. He was inducted into the Louisiana Sports Hall of Fame in 2007.^[2] He hosts his namesake celebrity golf tournament. The event has raised more than $1 million over the years for Rady Children's Hospital in San Diego.
He is currently the athletic director and women's basketball coach for the Roman Catholic St. Mary's High School in Natchitoches, Louisiana.

[polamalubeast]

Sometimes you can not judge a team on the quality of QB....The Steelers were good in 1997 and 2001 even if the QB was Stewart.

[pepsyman1]

The one thing I'll give Cowher is that losing after having a 4th quarter lead was a rarity. They'd make us sweat and not put people away going conservative but it was a rarity that we'd lose if we got a lead in the 4th. THIS crap where we melt down is just infuriating.

[Mojouw]

My point is they are talentless and playing lousy but they can still maintain some discipline. I hate the hood as much as anyone. He's a cheating ass. But his team's have discipline that ours lack

http://www.nflpenalties.com/

One and half less penalties per game for 35 yards on the season (8.75 yards per game).

So that is the dividing line between undisciplined and not?

Also, NE roster may have more defensive talent on it than the Steelers roster

http://www.ourlads.com/nfldepthcharts/depthchart/NE

That's a lot of high draft picks on defense. Wilfork, Revis, Jones, Mayo, Hightower, Collins.

I know their back 4 is better than Pittsburgh's (at least on paper). Front 7 is likely made up of more talent - on paper.

Maybe Bellicheck is too much of a players coach and has lost the team? Message is unfocused etc.

[smokin3000gt]

Anything good - Thank Cowher
Everything bad - Blame momlin
Fire everyone.

[steelreserve]

http://www.nflpenalties.com/

One and half less penalties per game for 35 yards on the season (8.75 yards per game).

So that is the dividing line between undisciplined and not?

Also, NE roster may have more defensive talent on it than the Steelers roster

http://www.ourlads.com/nfldepthcharts/depthchart/NE

That's a lot of high draft picks on defense. Wilfork, Revis, Jones, Mayo, Hightower, Collins.

I know their back 4 is better than Pittsburgh's (at least on paper). Front 7 is likely made up of more talent - on paper.

Maybe Bellicheck is too much of a players coach and has lost the team? Message is unfocused etc.

Yeah, real great comparison. You see them go through a bad stretch, and it's rare and out of character. With us, this same shit has been going on for years. At least you've hit on a good example of the difference between "knee-jerk" and "thought out."

Really, how many times have you seen New England suffer a season-long meltdown just because they didn't have their shit together? If nothing else, they've been the picture of consistency.

With us, you take the same exact group of players that just went to a Super Bowl, and the next season they're wandering around like the drunk who can't find his way home from the party. Same players. Not even losing because they're tired or injured or mentally worn out - just because hey, fuckin' whatever! And it's happened with Steelers teams WAY more talented than the current one. Not showing up ready to play. Stumbling through the preseason like they're just goofing around, saying it doesn't matter because it's just preseason, and then guess what, starting the real season the same way. Being all over the place with execution, all season long. Why? Just ... because.

By the way, last year EVERY member of our starting defense was a 1st- or 2nd-round pick except for the NT and CB/FS positions, where we sucked dirty ass. And actually we have one MORE this year (Mitchell), plus a second-round guy riding the bench for no apparent reason. That's 9 out of 11. If you're going on where people were drafted, we ought to have the best defense in the league and it shouldn't even be close. Why are they performing the exact opposite of that? Oh, that's right - it's because they're well-coached.

[Mojouw]

Yeah, real great comparison. You see them go through a bad stretch, and it's rare and out of character. With us, this same shit has been going on for years. At least you've hit on a good example of the difference between "knee-jerk" and "thought out."

Really, how many times have you seen New England suffer a season-long meltdown just because they didn't have their shit together? If nothing else, they've been the picture of consistency.

With us, you take the same exact group of players that just went to a Super Bowl, and the next season they're wandering around like the drunk who can't find his way home from the party. Same players. Not even losing because they're tired or injured or mentally worn out - just because hey, fuckin' whatever! And it's happened with Steelers teams WAY more talented than the current one. Not showing up ready to play. Stumbling through the preseason like they're just goofing around, saying it doesn't matter because it's just preseason, and then guess what, starting the real season the same way. Being all over the place with execution, all season long. Why? Just ... because.

By the way, last year EVERY member of our starting defense was a 1st- or 2nd-round pick except for the NT and CB/FS positions, where we sucked dirty ass. And actually we have one MORE this year (Mitchell), plus a second-round guy riding the bench for no apparent reason. That's 9 out of 11. If you're going on where people were drafted, we ought to have the best defense in the league and it shouldn't even be close. Why are they performing the exact opposite of that? Oh, that's right - it's because they're well-coached.

Like I said elsewhere, this is where you and I differ. I don not look at this team and see much more than a 9-7 team and the 3rd best team in the AFC North.

In particular the defensive side of the ball is in the midst of a rebuild/reload.

I have felt this way about the past 2 seasons or so. The only recent Steelers team I found totally disappointing was the one that lost in Denver to Tebow.

[steelreserve]

Like I said elsewhere, this is where you and I differ. I don not look at this team and see much more than a 9-7 team and the 3rd best team in the AFC North.

In particular the defensive side of the ball is in the midst of a rebuild/reload.

I have felt this way about the past 2 seasons or so. The only recent Steelers team I found totally disappointing was the one that lost in Denver to Tebow.

Hmm. Maybe. I know this team isn't anywhere near as good as the ones circa 2004-2008. I still think we ought to be a lot better than this. Especially given the relatively weak strength of the AFC lately.

There's no denying there are plenty of holes in our team, but I think a lot of them are due to mistakes made by the coaching staff and/or front office. Offensive line, DE - poor talent evaluation, poor player development ... NT, CB - not even attempting to address key needs ... LB - way overdrafting, way overspending ... this probably has a lot to do with the NT/CB situation, by the way ... if you are a good coach, you will be heavily involved in all of that - "I just coach the players they give me" is not an excuse.

All of that is one reason why the roster is now constantly a work-in-progress; the other that I can see is that the parts do not come together as a whole. Lots of players with raw ability, but things like bad tackling, miscommunication, missed assignments and poorly timed mistakes have plagued this team for years on both sides of the ball. All of those can loosely be grouped under the heading "teamwork," and there hasn't been enough of it to go around.

What really does it for me is the amount of players - many of them very high draft picks - who have all the tools and never reach their potential ... we keep them around for years, and they just sit in limbo, never getting any better, while we're hoping that one day they'll just turn into solid starters on their own. Lots of guys like that have come through, guys who are not just hopelessly BAD, but if they don't improve, the 2nd- and 3rd-round guys will be the frustrating fringe starters like Gilbert or Allen or Sanders, and the late-round guys will be scrubs who can barely hold a roster spot. And that's exactly what happens - they all stay the same. Everyone but a few exceptional talents who take off on their own (Brown, Pouncey, Timmons) all stays the same.

I think we've had a lot of guys like that, guys who could've helped the team, maybe not been superstars but at least, say, done an OK enough job that a position wasn't completely broken and we could've used a pick somewhere else that needed it. THAT'S why we failed to "reload" and instead for the past 2-3 seasons have the engine laid out in pieces on a big tarp on the floor of the garage. And for all of the above reasons, the lion's share of it comes down to POOR COACHING and POOR DECISION MAKING that the coach is, or should be, directly involved in.

[polamalubeast]

In the last 2 seasons, the steelers are 1-7 against sub .500 teams on the road....