agree. The greatest coach in nfl history - belichick was garbage when he didn’t have a qB. People just want easy changes - “Replace the coach! … Make me feel better like we’re doing something”Originally Posted by Mojouw
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agree. The greatest coach in nfl history - belichick was garbage when he didn’t have a qB. People just want easy changes - “Replace the coach! … Make me feel better like we’re doing something”
Not only no QB but one of the worst WR groups, mediocre RBs, overrated TEs, and the unproven OL.
The Canada effect didn’t help either.
Honestly, aside from Minkah, Watt, Heyward, Highsmith, Queen, and Metcalf - who on the roster would be guaranteed a starting spot on another playoff team if they were cut tomorrow?
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Depending on the team, probably Frazier and Freiermuth....maybe Elliot. There are even some players on the OL or a guy like Peyton Wilson that might be better than players at their positions on individual teams. That would make 9 players that could start for some of the teams, and maybe a couple more. The rookie running back hasn't shown anything yet but he could be a great player....as well as some of the other rookies. If he actually signs with the team, even Aaron Rodgers may be an upgrade for a couple teams that make the playoffs. We simply don't know how many excellent players they have from this season at this time.
You have to literally do the same list with every other team to get an idea of how many high-level players they have on their rosters. Most teams don't have as many great players as you think.
Good points.
But the idea that the Steelers of recent vintage are “supposed” to beat most teams is more than a little suspect.
They’re a rebuilding team. Not a playoff caliber team much less a “contender”.
They’ve collected a number of highly promising young(er) players. But they’ve still significantly undermanned at key spots.
I think they’re in a good path. Imagine if in 2026 they pull a guy say at Drake Maye’s level at QB….that shifts everything.
Once again, for about the 1,000th time on this board, the Tomlin apologists are acting as if he had nothing to do with the roster.
Standard operating procedure.Once again, for about the 1,000th time on this board, the Tomlin apologists are acting as if he had nothing to do with the roster.
Hater = Realist
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I would think Porter would definitely be starting on over three quarters of the teams in this league. Frazier, "Muth", Benton, Seumalo and Elliot would start on over half the teams in the league maybe. I also think there are possibly two rookies making that list.
Now if your point is that fans tend to overrate their team's rosters, that is valid point. There have been many Steelers' players in recent years who were much overrated, particularly towards the end of their carriers. One example I can think of at the moment would be Pouncy. He is still a borderline Hall of Famer, but his last 4 years or so he was pretty average.
If we got a true "franchise QB" with the roster, I think we would rise to the level of the best teams pretty quickly.
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That's a good call on Porter. I had a brain fart and completely forgot about him.
I forgot Porter as well.
But, yeah, the idea is we all tend to overate the roster.
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The last 3 drafts we have taken 5OL and 6DL. Includes Herbig and Sawyer with the DL. Building from the trenches seems to be the plan. If these guys stick, probably move on to secondary next. Maybe another 2nd round WR. We are not gonna take ourselves completely out of being able to compete each week. Just not our style.
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Pouncey made 9 ProBowls and was AllPro 5 times. This is in 11 years. He is credit with only 16 sacks allowed for his career. Maybe just my opinion, but I think he's better than border-line HoF. I would wager he gets in. It just takes OL a long time typically.
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I would vote him in if I had a vote as well. He will likely get in eventually but, in part because of the position he plays, he will have a long wait.
I still think my favorite play of his came against a team I can't remember, but I am thinking it was the Ravens. Anyways somebody gets under his pads and literally drives him straight back. However, he never loses contact, Ben side steps and throws the ball complete down the field. It was amazing to me. He got drove back like a tackling dummy on ice skates but because he never lost contact with the d'lineman, and Ben had such great pocket presence, it ended up being an effective block.
I don't believe Pouncey ever gets into the HOF.
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I don't know what carries more weight with the voters, but 9 pro bowls in 11 seasons seems pretty strong to me. 3-2nd team all-pro, and 2-1st team all-pro awards is not nothing as well. Time will tell. He won't be first ballot but may get in after a 'Faneca' type wait.
It’s a shame that he was hurt for SB. Not that the outcome would be any different, but I know he would’ve loved being out there.
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I wonder if already having two Steeler centers in the HOF hurts Pouncey’s chances
Yes, I believe that's one of the big reasons why Pouncey won't ever get in.
My least favorite play is his sailing the ball over Ben's head in a playoff game.
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It might have been different. I seem to remember that on Ben's pick six, Pouncey's replacement was driven back into the pocket. If Pouncey was playing, does he make an effective block? Does Ben not throw a pick six there? Do the Steelers go on to win?
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That should have nothing whatsoever to do with it. Politics.
I agree, but the key word here is "should".
Unfortunately, I believe that it does.
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Yeah jackholes like Peter King have a vote.
Now that the "Fire Tomlin" thread has become the "Pouncy HOF" thread, it's not as much fun.
There will probably be a backup for HOF entry once Frazier retires.
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That may be accurate. Steelers go from Webster to Dawson to Pouncey to hopefully Frazier being HoF worthy Steelers Centers. But then there is the already long wait for OL and add in the bias against Steelers players getting in, due to so many in already. It could be a forever wait.
Pouncey won't get it anytime soon. Hrsnot generally seen as a HOF caoiner player. Particularly amongst non-Steelers focused observers.
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I've posted his achievements, why do you think non-Steelers don't see that as an HoF career? Not arguing your point, just curious what is the criteria then? Across the board I mean. Is a SB victory mandatory?
I guess you could say he did all he did in 9 seasons. He missed the entire 2015 season and only played 1 game for the 2013 season. Which means he reached the pro bowl every single season he played, and made all-pro 5 out of 9 seasons. He was a rookie in 2010, so the only thing missing really is a ring. I don't know why he doesn't qualify other than 'not another Steeler' bias.
Interesting conversation though. Dawson, who played Center 12 seasons, made 7 pro bowls and had 6 all-pro seasons. He played on the SB team in '95. HoF 2012. If looking at numbers they match pretty evenly. I think so anyway.
Dawson was viewed as the best in the league at his position for most, if not all of his career. Dawson did things on the field that almost no other center was capable of among his contemporaries.
Pouncey was never viewed as the singular best center in the league. He wasn't really performing as the premier player in his own OL group. For me, Pouncey could make the Steelers Hall of Fame and the NFL Hall of Very Good. The difference is that Dawson was the acknowledged best at his position for most of the years he played. Pouncey was likely behind Saturday, Mack, and a few others.
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Maurkice Pouncey is also on the all decade team 2010's Center with Alex Mack.
https://www.profootballhof.com/news/...2010s-offense/
Like I said, the only thing missing really is a ring.
Maybe. I just don't remember many thinking/talking about Pouncey being the BEST center of his era. There are not a great number of centers in the HOF and most took a long time to get in.
Saturday, Kelce, Mangold, Mack, and Pouncey.
Kelce and Saturday likely get in and get judged as a bit better than Pouncey. Mangold, Mack, and Pouncey maybe get lumped together. Might harm each of their cases.
I am not sure I am right in how I am looking at any of this. But I just don't see what makes Pouncey stand out and there are only 7 centers in the HOF in total. Seven.
But I am also a weirdo and do not think that Ward and Harrison should get in either. But I would put
I agree Dawson > Pouncey.
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Is that part of it? I was only looking at Pouncey's numbers and awards. I wasn't comparing him to Mack or Saturday or Kelce, just does HIS career look worthy of the Hall. His stats and awards are equal to Dawson. Looking at HIS numbers only, what keeps HIM out exactly?
But if we are comparing, Saturday, Kelce, Mangold, Mack, and Pouncey, Pouncey has just as many pro bowls and all-pros as any of those guys if not more. So....what is the criteria? I'm honestly asking and not trying to argue point/counterpoint.
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I honestly don't disagree with you. BUT.... being better or worse than Dawson is not a criteria for getting into the HoF.
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