What has he done in the past 5 years other than go 0-2 in the playoffs with a franchise QB in his prime, including a playoff loss to suckass Tim Tebow?Originally Posted by Craic
What has he done in the past 5 years other than go 0-2 in the playoffs with a franchise QB in his prime, including a playoff loss to suckass Tim Tebow?
This again...
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The expectations come when a team that is far, far, far superior than a division rival yet wind up finding a way to lose via coaching decisions and player execution. This is what people are angry about (I think). Once, twice...okay. When it becomes a pattern and frequent recurrence, that's where the issue lies...
Enthroned Into The Good Old Boys Club - 2024
Even more so when said pattern costs the team multiple playoff appearances in less than a decade
Array title="Craic has a reputation beyond repute">
reread my post. I've already answered your question.
Array title="zulater has a reputation beyond repute">
`I don't know? I just think it's too easy and quite frankly lazy to blame the coach. Yeah I know everything that's happened with this team over the past 9 seasons. I can't explain some of the losses. I can't explain why they seemingly play to the level of their competition? But what I do have some understanding on is that teams who frequently change coaches generally suck. Teams that get close a few times but run into the late season wall a few seasons in a row who then blow up their coach generally regress instead of get better. Remember when there was an Oiler team, and remember in the late 70's- early 80's how they got pretty good under Bum Phillips for awhile? 4 double digit win seasons in 6 years. 5 winning seasons. This for a franchise that had spent the best part of the previous 10+ seasons as a joke. Anyway coming off an 11-5 season they fire Bum after a wild card playoff loss to the eventual SB champion Raiders which ironically enough meant that poor Bum got eliminated in the playoffs 3 straight years by the eventual SB champs. So they fire Bum, how did that work out? Well they went from 11 wins to 7 and then proceeded to go 16-59 over the next 5 years throwing in 1,2,3, and two 5 win seasons along the way. Yeah Bum obviously was the problem!
Want an example closer to home? Try this one on. Does anyone doubt the greatness of Chuck Noll?( if you do you're an idiot) We all remember what he did right? Or do we? Well yeah sure he had some struggles at the end but that came when he didn't have a franchise qb. Guess again. As someone old enough to remember I will tell you without a moments hesitation that Terry Bradshaw was as good or better qb in his last 3 full seasons than anytime in his career. 80-81-82's Terry Bradshaw was so much better than 74-75 not even close. And I will tell you right now he was every bit as good those 3 seasons as he was in 78 and certainly 79 when he threw 25 int on the season. But those 3 seasons (80-82) with a franchise qb playing at the peak of his abilities the Steelers missed the playoffs twice, and were one and done the year they made the playoffs.
Anyway as a child of the 70's I can remember when John Madden was labeled as a coach who couldn't get a team over the hump. Same was said about Tom Landry. Turns out staying with them despite multiple playoff losses and years of falling short worked out ok.
Now it doesn't always. The Redskins never quite made it to the top under George Allen. 7 straight winning seasons ( for a team that hadn't posted consecutive winning seasons since Sammy Baugh retired) 6 times in the playoffs. They fire him and proceed to miss the playoffs the next 5 years. Chuck Knox was another guy who made bad teams good ( Rams and the Bills) but never quite got over the top. But once fired those teams regressed rapidly.
I could go on and on. I could even go the opposite tract and point out mediocre coaches who just happened to be at the right place at the right time ( George Seifert, Tom Flores, Barry Switzer, Jon Gruden) who took another man's team to a SB championship. Now I realize some of you Tomlin doubters would put Tomlin in this category
But anyway here's my point. I think this is one of those careful what you ask for things. More often than not when your team shows championship potential but falls short it's just because. So many things have to fall into place in order to win it all in a particular season. And more often than not exercising patience and staying with the status quo gives you a better chance than blowing things up and starting over with a new regime. Believe it or not this team likes and respects Tomlin. Put in a new coach there could be some resentment. Is Ben going to respond to a new coaching staff etc...?
In summary I just think the best chance for the 2016 Steelers is to bring back Mike Tomlin. Yeah there's some things to be addressed. Maybe you've got to be a little more aggressive in your roster make up, find some free agents to help shore up the defense not only in the secondary but also with your lb's. Call me a wide eyed optimist if you like, but with better luck on the health front, a little more favorable schedule, and avoid the season sweep by any divisional rivals and I think I like this teams chances with Mike Tomlin next year.
"A man's got to know his limitations."
If the Steelers would lose in the divisional round or the AFC title game, I would not be upset.The problem of Tomlin is the lack of playoff win and the lack of playoff appearances.
Yes John Harbaugh has a difficult season with the Ravens, but since 2008 his team have participated in the playoffs 6 times and they have 10 playoff win and every time the Ravens have lost in the playoffs it was against a better team.
If Tomlin wins the previous Ravens game and either the first one or another game on the schedule...say the Chiefs game, he's deep into the talk for coach of the year. Probably wouldn't win it over Arians or Rivera, but instead of a two horse race, there's a third. The losses suffered this year aside from being owned by the Ravens, weren't terrible losses. Bengals, Seahawks, Patriots are all legitimate teams...a game in KC with a back up QB...not the easiest place to come out with a victory. This team should have swept the Ravens which would put the record at 11-4...but they didn't...
Tomlin has had some good coaching choices and some bad and I'm sure if you follow any other coach, you'd find the same. The thing with Tomlin's teams is they just don't get up for the games against "lesser" opponents...for whatever reason, they just don't.
Array title="zulater has a reputation beyond repute">
Here's 3 guys that aren't in Pgh today if Tomlin wasn't here.
1. DeAngelo Williams. When Williams signed on here he cited Tomlin as being among the chief reasons. Not only that when the Steelers signed him Tomlin told him he needed to lose weight, and gave him a specific weight he needed to report at. A weight DeAngelo hadn't seen for years. Tomlin told him he needed to improve his quickness and this would go a long way towards that. So how did that turn out? Imagine our season without Williams?
2. Alejendro Villenueva. Not only would he not be a Steeler today if Tomlin hadn't noticed him during the National Anthem prior to a 14 Preseason game, he probably wouldn't even be in the league. Here he was a college tight end at Army. How many Army alum are in the NFL? Anyway goes from that to fledgling defensive lineman who bounces around various teams practice squads before being cut by the Eagles. So Tomlin reaches out to him signs him and makes him an OT. a position he had never played before. So under Mike Munchak's tutelage not only is he able to make the active roster in his second season with the Steelers, first full season after transitioning to OL, he ends uo being thrust into the starting line-up at LT. One of the most difficult positions inn the league, and acquits himself quite well. Yes he played poorly against the Ravens. But overall his played helped sustain one of the most dynamic offenses in the league. This despite facing a murderers row of edge rushers.
3.) Mike Munchak. Mike Tomlin reached out to Munchak as soon as he was let go by the Titans. And when Munchak came here he cited the overall stability of the organization as being a key factor to coming here. He had other offers, but coming to a team that doesn't change coaches on a whim gave him a sense of security he wouldn't get elsewhere.
Look in the end whatever Tomlin is, whatever Cowher was, part of what made them winning coaches and thus made the Steelers a team that's downs are never prolonged is that the players know their coach will be back the next year and the year after that etc... You start kicking out the legs from under coaches who are solid and the next thing you know you;re the Browns.
"A man's got to know his limitations."
Array title="vader29 has a reputation beyond repute">
Mike Vick also would not be here if Tomlin wasn't.
I'm sorry but finishing 8-8 and being the last team to miss the playoffs with a talented roster, explosive offense and franchise QB because the team lost to 2 or more garbage teams is not an accomplishment worth celebrating, maybe it would be noteworthy for a team with no talent that finished 3-13 the previous year but not a team with a QB this good in a passing league and a team with talent.
LeGarrette Blount could still be here had he not blessed us with his hissy fit...Mike Vick also would not be here if Tomlin wasn't.
Ravens are a garbage team. Chiefs at the time were a "garbage team" but that game was at Arrowhead...which is always tough and it just so happened that themChiefs became very HOT there and the Steelers were in a hole and had Landry Jones at QB. I'm pretty confident that the team the Steelers would field today is better than the Chiefs...whether they would win...that's another story...but at the time the Chiefs were better. So exactly what were the other garbage losses this season?
I'm talking about the course of Tomlin's career including 2012 and 2013. I am counting double for the Ravens since it is 2 games. Getting swept by a 5-win team is simply unacceptable
I can live with the first loss against the Ravens since it was with Vick and our kicker cost the game.But I can not live with the last loss in Baltimore since the season was on the line.
And as everyone knows, it happens very often to lose against bad teams and it's very embarrassing.
nor would have Jacoby Jones ( gone today though by the way )Mike Vick also would not be here if Tomlin wasn't.
we also would not have Blake as a starting corner .....
so for all the so called Tomlin Blessings we also have Tomlin curses to balance them out
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to take a line from the Willie Parker detractors ( take away the long runs )
Take away the 2 Baltimore wins vs the Steelers and they are now a 3 win team ... 40% of their wins are VS the Tomlin led Steelers
Steeler fans seriously need to stop blaming Mike Tomlin
By ANDREW DOMENCIC - *December 31, 2015
These days, in Steeler Nation, hearing fans blame Mike Tomlin has become almost as common as seeing fans waving a Terrible Towel.
Yes, with the Pittsburgh Steelers’ recent loss to the Baltimore Ravens I could not help but wait for what I knew was coming. I knew there would be people calling for Tomlin’s head, but part of me wanted to think that maybe it would not happen this time. Maybe Steeler fans would stop arbitrarily placing the blame on the coach and actually look to who was really at fault, and that is Ben Roethlisberger.
It was not the coaching decisions that cost Pittsburgh the game, it was the uncommon poor play at Ben Roethlisberger that caused the Steelers to drop their third straight game to their bitter rivals.
Blaming Mike Tomlin for last week’s loss is patently absurd.
But see, I knew all this was coming. I knew it was coming from the moment the clock hit 0:00 because it is an every-week occurrence: when Pittsburgh loses, so many fans want Mike Tomlin fired; yet, when they win, he never gets any credit.
And it’s true. He really never gets any credit. I could not tell you how many times I’ve heard a fan say something along the lines of, “What has he accomplished that’s significant? And winning the Super Bowl doesn’t count because that was all Bill Cowher.”
It is an incredible double standard that so many fans embrace, and it is very troubling.
Many reading this may have seen the recent article that went viral suggesting that Mike Tomlin would be leaving the Pittsburgh Steelers to go back to working as a diagnostician for Dr. Gregory House.
This, of course, was a parody article referencing the fictional character Dr. House from the television series House M.D., and one of his employees who is played by Omar Epps, who greatly resembles Mike Tomlin.
However, despite the article being intended as a joke, it was actually believed and taken as fact by thousands of Steeler fans who loved the idea of Mike Tomlin leaving Pittsburgh.
It simply does not make any sense, especially since so many want to compare Tomlin to Bill Cowher as if to suggest that Cowher was somehow astronomically superior to him.
This, too, is complete nonsense.
In fact, if the Steelers win on Sunday against Cleveland, it will put Mike Tomlin’s career winning percentage (including the playoffs) at .633. At this same point in Bill Cowher’s career, his winning percentage was only .587.
Add Mike Tomlin’s winning playoff record and two Super Bowl appearances to the mix, and the nonsense is further exposed.
Now, this is not to suggest that Cowher was not a great coach, but one must recognize that Mike Tomlin’s career up to this point is actually better than that of Bill Cowher.
Clearly, this will not be recognized by many fans, and I am sure that many of my friends, family, and the media will be calling Mike Tomlin to be fired if things do not work out on Sunday.
I am also sure that it is utterly ridiculous and unwarranted.
http://cover32.com/2015/12/31/steele...kkSt4GCRrMV.99
Array title="Shoes has a reputation beyond repute">
Right, Tomlin sits in his castle with a moat surrounding him, the Pittsburgh sports media and the talking heads on NFL network & ESPN throwing softball questions to him and the fans need to stop blaming him. What a joke! The sport and political media are very much alike. He gets plenty of credit from his moat supporters.
Except for the fact that none of those things happened at all after our last coaching change, or the one before that, I guess you have a good point ...
See you Space Cowboy ...
ANDREW DOMENCIC the writer of the article above clearly hasnt been around here where Tomlin get more than his fair share of free passes
Array title="GBMelBlount has a reputation beyond repute">
I wonder what Tomlin's record would be if he had had an average QB his entire tenure instead of Ben.
"With love, with patience, and with Faith
....She'll make her way" ~ Natalie Merchant
my guess is he would now be a position coach somewhere
My guess wins 5 wins max each year the last 3-4 years. Last week's game at Baltimore would have likely been a battle for 2nd place in the division
Array title="zulater has a reputation beyond repute">
I can play the conjecture game too. How many Super Bowls would the Steelers have if they fired their coach after consecutive losing seasons and or 3 straight non playoff years, or 4 straight non playoff winning years?
Answer. Less than 2, and quite possibly 0. Because the parameters set forth here were never met by Noll, Cowher Tomlin. Other coaches fired before winning a Super Bowl by this criteria would be Belllichick, Bill Walsh ( posted losing seasons first two years, and 3 out of first 4) Weeb Eubank, Don Shula, ( both as a Colt and Dolphin coach) Pete Carroll just to name a few.
Outside of Vince Lombardi you would be hard pressed to find any coach you guys wouldn't have fired throughout the history of the game!.
"A man's got to know his limitations."
I can play the conjecture game too. How many Super Bowls would the Steelers have if they fired their coach after consecutive losing seasons and or 3 straight non playoff years, or 4 straight non playoff winning years?
Answer. Less than 2, and quite possibly 0. Because the parameters set forth here were never met by Noll, Cowher Tomlin. Other coaches fired before winning a Super Bowl by this criteria would be Belllichick, Bill Walsh ( posted losing seasons first two years, and 3 out of first 4) Weeb Eubank, Don Shula, ( both as a Colt and Dolphin coach) Pete Carroll just to name a few.
Outside of Vince Lombardi you would be hard pressed to find any coach you guys wouldn't have fired throughout the history of the game!.
problem with the above is this isnt his first few years now is it .. he has put his stamp on this team and quite frankly the stamp read MEDIOCRITY
Array title="Craic has a reputation beyond repute">
No? You mean, we didn't move from a "three yards and a cloud of mediocrity" Bill Cowher team to a pass-first, pass always team under Tomlin? And before you try to argue that we were shifting there under Cowher, Cowher was fleeing from the pass offense in 2004-6 due to the horrible 2003 season. It was a Tomlin brought in a distinct change of offense. One that was troubled by a front line used to a power running back (and yes, Cowher used Willy P. his last year, but he mailed it in that year as well). As for defense, we're now seeing a change that only didn't happen in Tomlin's first few years because we had a legendary Defensive Coordinator. The minute he's gone, our defense begins to change.
Array title="Craic has a reputation beyond repute">
You're transposing team and year. In 2012, we had a roster that was bleeding talent due to age. Hampton was 35 and falling apart. Keisel was 34 and slowing down. Foote and Taylor were 32, and Troy P. was 31. Our defense was OLD. So no, they weren't loaded with talent. They were loaded with former great players in the twilight of their career.
Do we even need to talk about the O line?
Did you see a 3-5 year rebuilding period that rendered us non-competitive? Because that's what you're raising the alarm about. No, we won another championship with the same exact players.
Of course changes are going to happen over time. They happen all the time even with the same coach. All that really matters is that they're not stupid changes or stupid coaches.
See you Space Cowboy ...
Array title="ALLD has a reputation beyond repute">
Tomlin has peaked and he is overpaid.
All Defense!
How many Super Bowls would the Steelers have won if they had drafted Tom Brady in 2000 instead of Cris Combs?I can play the conjecture game too. How many Super Bowls would the Steelers have if they fired their coach after consecutive losing seasons and or 3 straight non playoff years, or 4 straight non playoff winning years?
Answer. Less than 2, and quite possibly 0. Because the parameters set forth here were never met by Noll, Cowher Tomlin. Other coaches fired before winning a Super Bowl by this criteria would be Belllichick, Bill Walsh ( posted losing seasons first two years, and 3 out of first 4) Weeb Eubank, Don Shula, ( both as a Colt and Dolphin coach) Pete Carroll just to name a few.
Outside of Vince Lombardi you would be hard pressed to find any coach you guys wouldn't have fired throughout the history of the game!.
I say 5. They would have won in 2001, 2002, 2003. Cowher, bored with winning 3 Super Bowls after going 47-1 in the previous 3 seasons, at this point would have traded away Brady in a blockbuster 14 team, 78 player trade to put some competition back in the league. In the 2004 draft, Cowher would have been content with Tommy 'Auto' Maddox as his starting QB having showed some promise in mop up duty during blowouts (which there were plenty of over 3 years, minus the sole loss to expansion team Houston Texans, a game which resembled a three stooges episode).
In the 2004 draft, Cowher wanted to draft Shaun Andrews. However, he was overruled by Rooney, who preferred this strong armed QB out of a college nobody had heard of up to that point. Miami of Ohio.
The 2004 season would start with Maddox at QB, however he would have gotten hurt in the 2nd game against the Ravens. In steps this rookie QB, that Alan Faneca didn't want to play with, and proceeds to light up the league and leading the Steelers to a 15-1 record in his rookie season. They were outmatched however in the AFC Championship game against the New England Patriots. Tom Brady wanted revenge on his old team and his old coach and proceeds to throttle the Steelers having known all the defensive and offensive calls since he was on the team the previous 3 seasons. Hines Ward even comments after the game "they knew our calls".
In 2005 Cowher was pretty much bored with coaching and takes the Steelers to their 4th Super Bowl. In 2006 Cowher doesn't even show up. He spends the season standing on the sideline each game coming up with his Hall Of Fame speech and shuffling tunes on his new ipod. His most played track in the 2006 was the Pittsburgh Steelers Football Fight Song by Neil Gerjuoy and the Blitzburgh Ruff Ryders. You can hear the song at the link below.
https://youtu.be/lAk8y82i0OM
Despite not having a head coach during the 2006 season, the Steelers go 8-8 with a QB that was partially rebuilt with adamantium in the off season. After the last game of the season, Cowher was asked if he plans to be back the next season, he responds by saying that "I think I am going to take some time to become a TV star while I wait for my dream job, head coach of the Carolina Panthers, to open up".
The Rooney's are baffled by this betrayal. Even if Cowher did want to return they know they couldn't keep him since deep down he is a Carolina Panther fan. They are doubly pissed because they were part of the creation of the Rooney Rule a few years earlier forcing teams to interview minorities. They really wanted to promote Russ Grimm as coach but knowing they would look like hypocrites they bring in Mike Tomlin, a coach nobody had even heard of, obviously.
Tomlin goes on to win a Super Bowl in 2008 with Cowher's players (and Cowher ensures to annotate that in his Hall of Fame speech) but as Cowher's players dwindle down, the inadequacies of Tomlin start to show. The wins he does get is only due to having an elite QB.
That kid from Miami of Ohio.
Roethlisumthing.
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Zero. He would have never have survived the Pittsburgh Oline.How many Super Bowls would the Steelers have won if they had drafted Tom Brady in 2000 instead of Cris Combs?
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