I did and I was going to post something about it last week and I got distracted...lol.
I did and I was going to post something about it last week and I got distracted...lol.
Originally Posted by Dwinsgames
Enthroned Into The Good Old Boys Club - 2024
Array title="AtlantaDan has a reputation beyond repute">
Bradshaw's "cheerleader" comments have drawn national attention and backfired on Bradshaw
TV performers get cancelled when the act goes stale - Bradshaw's comments on Tomlin are typical for him these days - at some point FOX may decide it is time for a new face (as is the case with ESPN finally moving Chris Berman out about 10 years too late) and this may be a tipping point for his clown show ending
This from Mike Florio of PFT
When is the last time in the past 15 years that Bradshaw has said anything remotely insightful about the NFL? He rarely if ever articulates theories or ideas that provoke thought or serve as the launching point for a meaningful discussion.
That’s not really his role. He’s a personality. A storyteller. Gregarious, funny, affable, entertaining, and (typically) non-threatening. He’s that kooky, unfiltered uncle who can’t get a sentence out without tripping over his tongue and who routinely blurts out all sorts of incomprehensible nonsense when trying to read highlights.
And he’s fine with that. Bradshaw knows his role, and he gladly embraces the profit potential of being football’s version of Sonny Bono — a lovable, unpolished rube who can mask substantive deficiencies, absence of preparation, and lack of attention to detail with an “aw shucks” and a belly laugh....
Bradshaw swung and missed so badly on this one that it has prompted a long-overdue assessment of what he actually brings to the table, beyond comic relief.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...us-inaccurate/
In Bradshaw's defense, I think that's a fair question for pretty much every NFL "analyst" out there, especially the ones on those pregame programs which are all basically clown shows that I stopped paying any attention to years ago.When is the last time in the past 15 years that Bradshaw has said anything remotely insightful about the NFL?
Besides, if Fox cans him, he'll probably wind up at NFL Network - if they hired Crackhead Irvin, they'll pretty much hire anybody...
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What a joke. When has Florio EVER said ANYTHING insightful?
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What Bradshaw said was an insult. There's no way around that.
The sad part is that he only seems to give his serious criticisms against all things Steelers.
He criticized Ben, and that turned into a national story. And he flat out insulted the Steelers head coach by calling him "a cheerleader".
I think his own insecurities and problems with the Steelers organization have turned into something that he can't hide from, and that it rears its ugly head when discussing issues involving the Steelers. What he said was insulting and uncalled for. How many other coaches that have a career won/loss record of 102-57 has Bradshaw insulted this way? I would guess none.
In my opinion, his tired act has gone as far as it's going to go. I have never really liked his style from the beginning, but he literally brings nothing to the table. When you start taking shots at reputable coaches because of your own personal demons, the end may be near.
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I think he was only hired for comedic relief, and in the early years, he was charming. Now, there is no way I would watch any of the pregame crap.
So other than going for a 2-point conversion, can anyone pinpoint examples of where Tomlin has made a "great" coaching decision and an example of where he has coached up a player? A great example...?
James Harrison's 100-yard TD return in XLIII.
Tomlin specifically had had the defense practice INT returns (he chewed them out for loafing) the week leading up to that game.
Having the stones to go for the winning TD on MNF last season against the Chargers instead of the chip shot FG to tie the game up and send it into OT, especially with Vick starting at QB at the time. On the road, no less. It was also a turning point in the season - sitting at 3-2 after 5 games is worlds better than 2-3.
I've had my fill of this Bradshaw vs. Tomlin drama. This is just the media stirring "controversy" for ratings.
"You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland
I think this is the best example that you can pull for Tomlin. But if this is the example that makes him great, would you say that Jack Del Rio is a great coach?
I guess I'm just trying to understand what the definition of "great" is.
Array title="AtlantaDan has a reputation beyond repute">
Even a broken clock is right twice a day - Florio stated the obvious but it is true.
Bradshaw has declined into a clown - I do not watch pregame shows but i have seen Fox halftime breaks - Bradshaw cannot even deliver the halftime highlights coherently
I misunderstood - I thought you were asking for an example of a great coaching decision Tomlin has made. Personally, I consider Tomlin to be a good coach, much like Cowher was a good coach. Noll was a great coach. But Tomlin is more than a cheerleader IMO as well.
There is no defining it, you have guys who wont consider Belicheat a great coach for crying out loud, and those same guys are saying Brady is a system QB only and not great. That means Belicheats system is great then. THey dont want to give anyone credit they don't like. Tomlin was brought two teams to SB, and most often has his team prepared and ready to play. You can question calls on any headcoach, motivator is also a roll of head coach. I do think thats his number one strength. Right now I cant think of anyone available I would like to see replace him.
I wasn't trying to single you out. I was just moving the conversation along in general.
I personally, do not think he's a great coach. I think he's good and at times makes some very questionable decisions. But a lot of coaches do. But more or less, he's a good coach. I do think he is a HUGE cheerleader though. You can clearly see that from his sideline demeanor. On this staff alone, I think Munchak could be labeled as great and I think Danny Smith is horrible. But Tomlin is overall a good coach.
Tomlin's best quality is the fact that he and his team are able to handle adversity
Let's look at the last 4 years alone
2013: Were 0-4, 2-6 after a loss to awful Oakland and a shellacking at the hands of New England, and 5-8 coming off 2 consecutive heart-breaking defeats. They finish 8-8 and almost squeaked into the playoffs all with a combination of aging vets from the 00s Super Bowl teams and young players.
2014: Start 3-3 after a humiliating defeat against Cleveland then find themselves at 7-5 after a 1-2 start and sitting 1.5 games behind in the division. Finish 11-5 and then win the division
2015: Start 4-4, star RB plays 5 full games, star QB misses 4 games and has to play Mike Vick and Landry Jones those games, star center out the whole season, no. 2 WR and previously mentioned star RB suspended in the offseason, down to no. 3 RB in the playoffs and miss star WR during playoffs. 10-6, go toe-toe with the eventual Super Bowl champs in the divisional round
2016: Start 4-5, same RB and WR suspended again (the WR this time for the whole year), now 10-5 and have the no. 3 seed locked up
Also the team has a staple of young talent which he is partly to take credit for
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That really is the issue in all these types of discussions. Is Ben elite? Well, define elite. Are the Steelers a good team? Define good. Is Tomlin a great coach? Define great.
Superbowls
I don't think we can use SB wins to define a great coach; Barry Switzer and John Gruden are not great coaches (although, something might be said for Gruden taking a team to the SB to play the team he built himself the previous few years). Multiple SB wins could be a better choice, but so much goes into winning multiple SBs that it's unfair to make it a sole or major contributor in defining greatness.
Season Records
Arguably, season records are better statistic, but the problem here is twofold - 1. It gives an unfair advantage to coaches who coach in weak divisions. Tomlin, for instance, has had to deal with a very strong Ravens team pretty much his entire career. And, when the Ravens were not strong, the Bengals were. Compare that to, say, the NFCWest a few years ago. 2. It still suffers from the same issue as Superbowls. So much goes into a team's longevity that is outside the coaches purview, including contracts, injuries, and just plane aging of players. Although, this stat is more fair than superbowls, because it also judges a coaches long-term effectiveness in drafts and preparing teams to play each year.
Big Games
A good coach should be able to get his team to win the big games they need to win. Right? I'd go for that, except what happens when you lose your RB, your backup RB is injured the week before the big game, your top wide receiver is in concussion protocol and can't play, and your QB is playing with a separated shoulder? You simply cannot judge a coaches ability to win a game without looking all the internal factors going into that game, but doing so puts you back into the subjective category of assessment.
Peer Opinion
In some ways, peer opinion might be the most accurate as only NFL coaches truly know what NFL coaches go through. Yet, I think you'll never here an AFCN coach praise another coach until years after they've competed. So how can we used that as an assessment? I don't trust sports-writers opinions, to be honest. So that leaves us with little to judge in peer opinion.
Player Opinion
Like peer opinion, this may be a good way to go as well, as players have a much better understanding of how the coach is impacting the team. Yet, the problem here is a distinct difference between greatness and likability, and not all players have the ability to distinguish between the two.
Where does that leave us?
In my opinion, I think we probably should take a little from each category, weighted differently. So, multiple SBs plus multiple strong seasons, but negative opinions by coaches and players would deny a coach is great. However, a coach who is overwhelmingly thought to be a great coach by other coaches and players, and has strong seasons but doesn't win the SB, could still be a great coach depending on why he didn't win the SB (a third of his team caught the flu two days before kickoff, and they still came within a field goal of winning? Yeah, great coach).
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Tomlin has had only one team, going into the last weekend of the season, who was eliminated from the playoffs before the last weekend (2012 team). Every other team has gone into the final weekend still "alive".
The main thing that doesn't make Tomlin great, IMO, is his tendencies to lose to a lot lesser teams.
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Bravo. His comments were below the line and completely uncalled for. Those are things you say in a bar with your buddies, not on national tv in a professional setting.
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Ironic, the extension of a football is the difference between Bradshaw being right or being an overrated old bumpkin.Seriously if we lost that game to the Ravens, which we were seconds from doing, then who's praising Tomlin today as we sit on the outside looking in needing an improbable Bengal win to get into the postseason?
"A man's got to know his limitations."
This is what I love to see, but this year we played ne with jones and down by more than a td and he opted to kick a long fg at Heinz field rather than go for it on 4th and short. I would rather us go down swinging for the fences than to try to eake one out even if it means we lose. I am probably the only Steeler fan who doesn't mind seeing us go for two. Doesn't mean I never want us to kick the extra point rather that I don't mind seeing us go for it from time to time.
Tomlin is not perfect, but he is one of the best coach in the league when the team has adversity
The last 4 years proves that
The easiest way to peg Tomlin's value is to start listing active coaches that can be reasonably be rated as significantly superior to Tomlin.
Bellichek. Carroll? I don't see it but everyone keeps telling me how great the Harbaugh boys are.
In all honesty, everyone else is equal or far lesser of a coach than Tomlin.
Does that hat make him great? Nope. But it is hard for me to see who would be a clearly superior choice?
Under Tomlin the team has now moved into a period where they are winning with a new batch of players almost entirely different from the Super Bowl championship teams of the 00s, and the fact that they have one of the most talented young rosters in the league especially on defense
Madden: Terry Bradshaw wasn't wrong in calling Tomlin a cheerleader
Terry Bradshaw, a Steelers icon, called current coach Mike Tomlin a “cheerleader” before adding, “I don’t think he is a great coach at all. His name never even pops up in my mind when we think about great coaches in the NFL.”
Cue faux outrage.
But what did Bradshaw say that was wrong?
“Cheerleader” was a clumsy choice of words. But saying that Tomlin is primarily a motivator rings true. His coordinators mostly have autonomy.
If you need convincing that Tomlin isn’t a great coach, look at his record over the five seasons prior: Just one division title and just one playoff victory. That’s with a plethora of weapons, including a future Hall of Fame quarterback in his prime.
If Tomlin hadn’t just won the AFC North this past Sunday, Bradshaw’s words would be gospel in Pittsburgh. Instead, the four-time Super Bowl winning quarterback is being vilified. Bad timing is skewing the truth.
Tomlin tells his players to ignore the media.
But, his ego bruised by Bradshaw, Tomlin responded on Tuesday, invoking his past as a Dallas Cowboys fan and, in particular, a Hollywood Henderson fan.
Before Super Bowl XIII in 1979, Henderson famously said Bradshaw couldn’t spell cat if you spotted him the “c” and the “a.” Bradshaw famously won that Super Bowl, and the game’s MVP. Henderson famously became a crackhead.
Many feel like Tomlin won that exchange. I don’t see how.
Should Tomlin be judged by his results? If so, what results? Tomlin has 102 wins in 10 seasons. But the further Tomlin gets away from everything he inherited from Bill Cowher in 2007, the worse he does.
read more
http://www.timesonline.com/columnist...cde7468fc.html
I know I have been critical of Tomlin (even this season) and that he has given people reason to be critical of him even this season, but to deny that overall he is one of the best coaches in this league and that the past few years overall he has done a good job with winning, I just don't see the argument.
The Steelers are 12-1 in december/January since 2014...
But this is certain that I would rather that the steelers are not forced to win every games in the 2nd half of season to make the playoffs, as this is the case in recent years.I hate being in a hole and the steelers do not have a bye week in the playoffs because of that.
Read Mark Madden's thing and there is really some dumb stuff that I have to comment on
Was Tomlin having his team practice blocking for an interception return before the Super Bowl and that leading to Harrison's legendary return just being a motivator? Also if by motivator, he means having his team mentally strong so they don't quit when times are tough isn't really a thing to dog someone on. Plus I doubt the wisdom is saying that Haley and Butler have more to do with the team's success than Tomlin“Cheerleader” was a clumsy choice of words. But saying that Tomlin is primarily a motivator rings true. His coordinators mostly have autonomy.
Now this is false considering that in 2012 and 2013 they went 8-8 while the last 3 years they have been playoff bound and this is while more and more of the 00s Super Bowl veterans have and more and more talented youngsters are added to the rosterShould Tomlin be judged by his results? If so, what results? Tomlin has 102 wins in 10 seasons. But the further Tomlin gets away from everything he inherited from Bill Cowher in 2007, the worse he does.
Blind assumption don't you think?But the Steelers’ yardage lost via infraction dropped in the season’s late going, and Antonio Brown’s oft-flagged twerking was thankfully absent after his season-saving touchdown this past Sunday.
Here’s betting Ben Roethlisberger talked Brown off that ledge, not Tomlin.
Sean Payton must be the worst coach in NFL history then for missing the playoffs 4 times in the last 5 years with Drew Brees. Having a franchise QB helps but you still actually need a team around himIt’s amazing that Tomlin has missed the playoffs three times in 10 seasons despite having Roethlisberger. With Brady starting, Belichick has made the post-season 14 times in 15 tries.
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