FIRE MIKE TOMLIN!!

[NCSteeler]

Next time you want to tar and feather Tomlin over his in game decisions consider Bellichick's last 4 games this year

1. A win away from clinching the AFC's 1 seed the Patriots tie the Jets late to force overtime. Win the coin toss, elect to kick the ball, and then never see the ball in OT as the Jets score a TD and win the game.

2. Still with his destiny in his own hands goes to Miami. A team who's season is long ago over. Basically doesn't even try to win ( as attested by Brady's 5 first half pass attempts.) So essentially concedes the 1 seed to the one team that owns him in their building.

3. Divisional playoff game, guarding a 7 point lead. 2nd and 12 at the Chiefs 46. 1.08 left in the game, the Chiefs holding two time outs. Brady passes, right to a Chief! Could have been a pick 6! But Pats luck out, bounces off Chiefs player's shoulder pad right to Pats receiver for first down Imagine if that interception happens as it should have.

4. 4th quarter, trailing by 8. 4th and 6 at the Broncos 14. 2.15 on the clock all 3 time outs in your pocket. Denver's offense has been in deep freeze for the second half. You go for it and fail. Had you kicked the fg, the Broncos would have needed at least 2 first downs to keep your offense off the field with ample time to drive for the winning TD. You wouldn't have even needed to onsides kick. Just stop an offense that had assumed turtle mode for the previous 25 minutes and it's there for the taking!


OK getting back to the here and now. Yes those decisions weren't as lopsided as I portrayed them. But the point is if Tomlin had this run over 4 games everyone would be killing him, calling him the biggest idiot on earth.

Something to consider maybe?

People still claim he's a genius coach. When down by 10 or less, late in the game, YOU ALWAYS take the points. You get the 3 and it opens up all kinds of things. You miss the 1st down and you are dug in a big hole.

[SteelersProfessor]

Go watch the 1st half of the 49ers game drives 2-5:

Number of combine snaps for #10, #14, #45, #46, #81, and #89 on those 4 drives?

Zero.

And they scored 29 points on those four drives in route to their best offensive output of the season.

When Haley allows the offense to get in a groove, simply by leaving well enough alone and stops his constant subbing for whatever reason? I have no issue with him.

But it doesn't happen nearly enough.

[st33lersguy]

For a guy using the name "professor" he isn't very smart

[SteelersProfessor]

Go watch:

2015 49ers 1st half drives 2-5.

2014 Browns week 1 first 25 minutes of the season.

2013 Lions first half.

Those are exactly what I'm talking about. And what Haley doesn't do nearly enough.


Just like after Landry got hurt against the Browns. Because Ben wasn't involved in the game planning all week, once he went into the game HE called the majority of the plays, Tomlin called it "handing him the keys".

And they scored 27 points with Ben getting no reps during the week.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Go watch:

2015 49ers 1st half drives 2-5.

2014 Browns week 1 first 25 minutes of the season.

2013 Lions first half.

Those are exactly what I'm talking about. And what Haley doesn't do nearly enough.


Just like after Landry got hurt against the Browns. Because Ben wasn't involved in the game planning all week, once he went into the game HE called the majority of the plays, Tomlin called it "handing him the keys".

And they scored 27 points with Ben getting no reps during the week.

this team was so different those 3 seasons....not to mention the questionable quality of the opponents. or lack thereof

[SteelersProfessor]

this team was so different those 3 seasons....not to mention the questionable quality of the opponents. or lack thereof

Bryant didn't play week 1 2014 and that first half was dominant. You can pretty much tell how the offense is going to start simply by the number of snaps the #2 TE at the time gets early in the game.

Prior to the Colts game in 2014 Tomlin told Ben early in the week that they were going to go balls to the wall to start, Ben had his best week of practice all year to that point, he was so amped up when he got to the stadium that Sunday he had to go on the field with Fichtner BEFORE the regular warm up and get some throwing done to settle him down.

And what happened? He went out there and crushed them.

Ben is like a caged lion in this offense. On the rare occasion they allow the lion out for some air early he dominates his prey. But for the most part to start games? He's the lion in the zoo. Trapped in a cage with nowhere to go.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Ben is like a caged lion in this offense. On the rare occasion they allow the lion out for some air early he dominates his prey. But for the most part to start games? He's the lion in the zoo. Trapped in a cage with nowhere to go.

[SteelersProfessor]

[86WARD]

49ers and Browns...keywords...

[SteelersProfessor]

49ers and Browns...keywords...

No, the keyword should be mindset.

Ben did it with Whiz, he did it with Arians.

Only when Haley showed up did slow starts become an issue.

Because he won't stop with his constant subbing.

People want Ben/AB to stop forcing the issue, and I agree.

The way you do that, is to leave the parts AROUND AB/Ben to remain the same also.

Treat the first 28 minutes of a half the same way you treat the last two.

[smokin3000gt]

[Mojouw]

Things that are done in the first 28 minutes of the half allow the opportunities that are taken advantage of in the last 2 minutes of the half. You can't separate the game in to individual chunks and analyze them separately. An NFL game is a dynamic situation with the offense and the defense responding to what they think they see the opposition doing. Haley's slow starts, at least this year, usually have a point. Show the other team something and then do something totally different out of the same formation later in the game for big yardage. Or probe the defense for tendencies and weaknesses. Often those sub-package plays are specifically intended more to gauge the response than to rip off yards.

Can't just look at it drive by drive. Look at the entire game.

[SteelersProfessor]

Things that are done in the first 28 minutes of the half allow the opportunities that are taken advantage of in the last 2 minutes of the half.

The last 4 years of this offense prove that to be incorrect.

How does wasting an entire half mixing and matching on offense benefit the last two minutes? If anything you are giving your own offense limited chances to succeed. And twenty points or less on offense in 25 of their past 51 games with all this alleged "talent", would seem to support that.

Keep it simple, keep your athletes on the field and stop wasting time with Spaeth, Nix, and Johnson.

Green Bay kept it simple (3 wide) in 2014 Rodgers won MVP.

Denver ran 941 plays with at least 3 wide in 2013 Peyton won MVP.

Those teams didn't try to trick you with 330 pound linemen at wide receiver like we do. They just lined up and kicked your ass.

[tube517]

[Mojouw]

The last 4 years of this offense prove that to be incorrect.

How does wasting an entire half mixing and matching on offense benefit the last two minutes? If anything you are giving your own offense limited chances to succeed. And twenty points or less on offense in 25 of their past 51 games with all this alleged "talent", would seem to support that.

Keep it simple, keep your athletes on the field and stop wasting time with Spaeth, Nix, and Johnson.

Green Bay kept it simple (3 wide) in 2014 Rodgers won MVP.

Denver ran 941 plays with at least 3 wide in 2013 Peyton won MVP.

Those teams didn't try to trick you with 330 pound linemen at wide receiver like we do. They just lined up and kicked your ass.


[/COLOR]

Seem to be cherry picking around 12 snaps a game to spot a "trend". I don't have the totals in front of me, but I feel like the Steelers live in 3 wide packages.

If you can't understand how play calls earlier in a game impact how a defense will read and react to personnel packages and formations later in the game, I can't really help you with that. Maybe watch some more football? I don't know.

Look at this past season. How many times did the Steelers offense look "stuck" for the first quarter plus and then an avalanche of yards/points were piled up in the rest of the game? More than once. Could it be that things later in the game were set up by things earlier in the game? No. That would be silly. What was I thinking?

Also, for the "25 out of 51 "stat" you keep trotting out there - how many of those games were without Ben Roethlisberger at QB? How many of those games were games were Roethlisberger didn't finish due to injury? What about Bell at RB? THe 51 games should stretch back to 2013 or so right? How many of those games were with swiss cheese on the front line? But, screw it, right? You found a number that backs up your point - just keep repeating it over and over again.

Does your evaluation of the offense take into account that the Steelers best weapons are "vertical" talents? So when the field shrinks in the redzone and the defense can use the sidelines AND the backline of the endzone as another defender it becomes difficult for a vertical team to score? Look at Arizona, the Brees-Payton Saints, even Martz's "Greatest Show on Turf" offenses. Maybe some of those pacakges with TEs and FBs are designed to attempt to assist with scoring TDs on a shorter field? Probably not. Again, what was I thinking?

Not saying that Haley is a genius or without his flaws - but to worry about offense with this team is kinda just crying over having too big enough pile of money to sleep on.

[SteelersProfessor]

Look at this past season. How many times did the Steelers offense look "stuck" for the first quarter plus and then an avalanche of yards/points were piled up in the rest of the game?

You mean like garbage time TD's and yards in losses?

Hey Ben threw for three TD's in the 2nd half against the Chargers in 2012, after they were down 27-3.

Yay Ben threw for 165 yards and two TD's in the 4th quarter against the Saints.

Too bad they were down 19 points.

Wooooooooo Ben with a beautiful strike to Lance Moore in Cleveland, they are only down 31-10 now.

Wow! Look at that 80 yard bomb to Bryant against the Jets......sure would have been nice if the score wasn't 20-6 with 1:20 left, this AFTER we wasted a red zone possession with JAMES $%^&*()(*&^&*(*& Harrison running a pass pattern for the first time in his CAREER.

That's seven touchdown passes, that were absolutely meaningless.

Look out!!!! Avalanche warning!!!!

[SteelersProfessor]

Also, for the "25 out of 51 "stat" you keep trotting out there - how many of those games were without Ben Roethlisberger at QB?

Ben played almost every snap in 2013 and 2014.

17 of 33 were 20 points or less.

Next?

[Mojouw]

You mean like garbage time TD's and yards in losses?

Hey Ben threw for three TD's in the 2nd half against the Chargers in 2012, after they were down 27-3.

Yay Ben threw for 165 yards and two TD's in the 4th quarter against the Saints.

Too bad they were down 19 points.

Wooooooooo Ben with a beautiful strike to Lance Moore in Cleveland, they are only down 31-10 now.

Wow! Look at that 80 yard bomb to Bryant against the Jets......sure would have been nice if the score wasn't 20-6 with 1:20 left, this AFTER we wasted a red zone possession with JAMES $%^&*()(*&^&*(*& Harrison running a pass pattern for the first time in his CAREER.

That's seven touchdown passes, that were absolutely meaningless.

Look out!!!! Avalanche warning!!!!

Weird. None of those were from this season - the season and games I was actually referencing in my comment.

[Mojouw]

Ben played almost every snap in 2013 and 2014.

17 of 33 were 20 points or less.

Next?


[/COLOR]

Okay. Half. So half were over 20 points - right? I still fail to see the point.

In the same period of time (2013-2014), the Patriots were held to 20 points or less 10 times. The Packers 10 times as well. Hmmm, let's find another high-powered offense - Broncos 5 times at 20 or less. The Seahawks had 10 and they went to the SB both of those years.

I guess, I am not sure what the point that statistic is trying to make? I guess teams that score alot of points tend to win games - but the Steelers record is pretty decent the last 3 years. So - they don't blow people out?

[86WARD]

The last 4 years of this offense prove that to be incorrect.

How does wasting an entire half mixing and matching on offense benefit the last two minutes? If anything you are giving your own offense limited chances to succeed. And twenty points or less on offense in 25 of their past 51 games with all this alleged "talent", would seem to support that.

Keep it simple, keep your athletes on the field and stop wasting time with Spaeth, Nix, and Johnson.

Green Bay kept it simple (3 wide) in 2014 Rodgers won MVP.

Denver ran 941 plays with at least 3 wide in 2013 Peyton won MVP.

Those teams didn't try to trick you with 330 pound linemen at wide receiver like we do. They just lined up and kicked your ass.


[/COLOR]

2013 Steelers were in 11 personnel over 65% of the time. Packers were 84% Only Philadelphia was remotely close to that at 80%. The 65% was 6th in the league. Denver only had 69%.

[Mojouw]

http://www.pro-football-reference.co...nap-counts.htm

So all the players that are holding back the offense were on the field for less than 1/4 of the offensive snaps.

The highest number was Spaeth who played 242 of 1074 offensive snaps. Stupid blocking TE! All dragging the points parade down!

[86WARD]

BTW - the Packers put their big fat linemen in on offense as well...

[Mojouw]

2013 Steelers were in 11 personnel over 65% of the time. Packers were 84% Only Philadelphia was remotely close to that at 80%. The 65% was 6th in the league. Denver only had 69%.

Shhhhhh! It is way more fun to simply mix and match facts with no regard for context or comparison.

Did you know that the Steelers score on 82% of the plays that Todd Haley can say in less than 5 words? Over five and that percentage drops to 35% - astounding!

Clearly Haley is getting too cute and out-thinking himself with big, complicated plays.

[polamalubeast]

This thread is very funny!!!!

[hawaiiansteeler]

http://www.pro-football-reference.co...nap-counts.htm

So all the players that are holding back the offense were on the field for less than 1/4 of the offensive snaps.

The highest number was Spaeth who played 242 of 1074 offensive snaps. Stupid blocking TE! All dragging the points parade down!

yeah, what a waste of Spaeth he is...

[SteelersProfessor]

Stupid blocking TE!

That's just it, he's not blocking as much as you think, when we throw with him on the field? He's running pass patterns.

4th and 3 in Cincy, season on the line, he's lined up in an empty spread set with James.

Stupid Marvin Lewis called timeout. We go back on the field, we take Spaeth and James OFF the field, we convert, we win.

The next week, 4th and 1, WE call timeout, we then have James and Spaeth on the field, Denver doesn't make the mistake Lewis made, we don't convert, we lose.

[smokin3000gt]

That's just it, he's not blocking as much as you think, when we throw with him on the field? He's running pass patterns.

4th and 3 in Cincy, season on the line, he's lined up in an empty spread set with James.

Stupid Marvin Lewis called timeout. We go back on the field, we take Spaeth and James OFF the field, we convert, we win.

The next week, 4th and 1, WE call timeout, we then have James and Spaeth on the field, Denver doesn't make the mistake Lewis made, we don't convert, we lose.

It's hard to argue with this. I think we should do this every play.

championshippp!

[Mojouw]

I give up. At this point we aren't even trying to link causation and correlation.

Plus was Spaeth playing when Denver converted 3rd and long?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SteelersProfessor]

Okay. Half. So half were over 20 points - right? I still fail to see the point.

In the same period of time (2013-2014), the Patriots were held to 20 points or less 10 times. The Packers 10 times as well. Hmmm, let's find another high-powered offense - Broncos 5 times at 20 or less. The Seahawks had 10 and they went to the SB both of those years.

I guess, I am not sure what the point that statistic is trying to make? I guess teams that score alot of points tend to win games - but the Steelers record is pretty decent the last 3 years. So - they don't blow people out?

You are aware that 17 is almost DOUBLE of 10, right?

- - - Updated - - -

It's hard to argue with this. I think we should do this every play.

championshippp!

It is hard to argue, Antonio Brown was already out of the game hurt in Denver, and Haley took Martavis Bryant off the field as well and called a 4th down play for a guy who had one catch and THREE YARDS in a month.

If you guys can condone that? You'll condone anything Haley does from now on.

[86WARD]

Bed time is coming soon.

This thread is about firing Tomlin!!!