FIRE MIKE TOMLIN!!

[Hawkman]

I really think that we need to stop bringing ideas from Madden football to arguments about the actual NFL. It was a field position game. You have the punter who was one of the best in the league in pinning teams deep in shorter placement punt situations ALL year. Look it up. It is a stat and everything. You have rookie placekicker with a strong leg. But a rookie on the road in adverse conditions. What the home team kicker was able to do is not a good analogy for what Boz may or may not have been able to do.

Long story short, the Steelers played a defense and field position game all day. They most likely would have won, except they lost the turnover battle.

Damn, Mojouw, stop making so much sense....people here don't want to listen to that.

[Mojouw]

Damn, Mojouw, stop making so much sense....people here don't want to listen to that.

I know! What was I thinking?!

[fansince'76]

Arians didn't lose his best wr and two best rb's and starting LT and All Pro center either. And Palmer played every game. So I wouldn't make too much of it.

I just think it's funny how Whisenhunt was made out to be such a genius and Arians such a bumbling fool by many Steelers fans when Arians' Cardinals teams have performed far and away better than Whisenhunt's ever did, one fluke Super Bowl appearance when Fitz was playing out of his mind notwithstanding.

[86WARD]

I really think that we need to stop bringing ideas from Madden football to arguments about the actual NFL. It was a field position game. You have the punter who was one of the best in the league in pinning teams deep in shorter placement punt situations ALL year. Look it up. It is a stat and everything. You have rookie placekicker with a strong leg. But a rookie on the road in adverse conditions. What the home team kicker was able to do is not a good analogy for what Boz may or may not have been able to do.

Long story short, the Steelers played a defense and field position game all day. They most likely would have won, except they lost the turnover battle.

AGREE 100%

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I just think it's funny how Whisenhunt was made out to be such a genius and Arians such a bumbling fool by many Steelers fans when Arians' Cardinals teams have performed far and away better than Whisenhunt's ever did, one fluke Super Bowl appearance when Fitz was playing out of his mind notwithstanding.

Remember there was a stage where people were calling for more "trick" plays when Arians was OC? lol...

[zulater]

I just think it's funny how Whisenhunt was made out to be such a genius and Arians such a bumbling fool by many Steelers fans when Arians' Cardinals teams have performed far and away better than Whisenhunt's ever did, one fluke Super Bowl appearance when Fitz was playing out of his mind notwithstanding.

Arians is a better head coach than he was a Steelers OC. Simple. I was never a huge critic or fan of his. He helped Ben get better, but they hit the proverbial wall as a coach qb. I think Ben has grown into a better qb under Haley.

[hawaiiansteeler]

very classy comments by Tomlin:

Mike Tomlin: “Peyton’s the ultimate play caller”

Posted by Michael David Smith on January 17, 2016



Broncos quarterback Peyton Manning did not have a particularly good day throwing the ball in today’s win over the Steelers, but he did engineer a game-winning touchdown drive in the fourth quarter, and Steelers coach Mike Tomlin said afterward that that’s par for the course when facing Peyton.

Tomlin said that Manning’s ability to read the Steelers’ defense and audible at the line of scrimmage makes things difficult, and is why the Broncos went with Manning over Brock Osweiler.

“Peyton’s the ultimate play caller. He got them in some good checks and did a nice job. We got to a point in the game where we had to take some calculated risks, and that’s why, I’m sure, that they started him,” Tomlin said.

Physically, Manning is nowhere near the same quarterback as he was in his prime, when he won an NFL record five regular-season MVP awards. But Manning still has the mental ability to see the field like few quarterbacks do. In that late fourth-quarter drive, the Steelers found that out the hard way.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...e-play-caller/

[st33lersguy]

I think every steeler fan trying to defend Arians' tenure as Steelers OC should be reminded of that stupid playcall at the end of their divisional game that gave Rodgers enough time to tie the game up. He was fired because his playcalls were dumb and unimaginative. Remember 5 wide shotgun on 3rd and short in the wind and cold against Cleveland? Plus the offense is doing better under Haley than it ever did under Arians and his kindergarten level playcalling, and anyone who wants to point to personnel should be reminded that in 2012, Ben was having a career year with a crappy O-line, no clear no. 1 RB, and AB being held back by Mike "I only care about money" Wallace before he getting injured.

[fansince'76]

Plus the offense is doing better under Haley than it ever did under Arians and his kindergarten level playcalling, and anyone who wants to point to personnel should be reminded that in 2012, Ben was having a career year with a crappy O-line, no clear no. 1 RB, and AB being held back by Mike "I only care about money" Wallace before he getting injured.

Sure, ever since Munchak was brought on board and Bell and Bryant broke out in 2014. Before that? Not so much.

In Arians' last year (2011), they were 21st in the league in scoring. In 2012, they ranked 22nd. In 2013, they ranked 20th.

[st33lersguy]

Sure, ever since Munchak was brought on board and Bell and Bryant broke out in 2014. Before that? Not so much.

In Arians' last year (2011), they were 21st in the league in scoring. In 2012, they ranked 22nd. In 2013, they ranked 20th.

2012 Ben was having a career year before getting injured (plus AB missed time that year), 2013 the offense started slow largely due to an early season injury to Pouncey and Bell missing time due to a foot injury. Plus this year Bell, Ben, Bryant, Beachum, and Pouncey all missed at least 4 games and Michael Vick and Landry Jones accounted for 4 starts, yet the offense still finished 3rd in the NFL. And the offense got rolling the 2nd half of the year without Bell, Pouncey, Beachum, and with Bryant hitting a slump. Todd Haley is not perfect, but he gets more out of Ben than Arians ever did.

[Count Steeler]

25 pages. Might be time to close this thread and start a new one when we lose our first game next year. Heck, it may even start in the preseason.

Overall, good job Mike. We went further with less than I had hoped for when the season started. Let's shore up the D and go on a SB run before Ben retires. You have managed to rebuild this team without a losing season. Injuries? Unbelievable. However, we were one of the 8 teams left standing and very close to being 1 of the 4. Thanks Mike.

[Mojouw]

Sure, ever since Munchak was brought on board and Bell and Bryant broke out in 2014. Before that? Not so much.

In Arians' last year (2011), they were 21st in the league in scoring. In 2012, they ranked 22nd. In 2013, they ranked 20th.

Shhh! That gets in the way of the narrative.

Arians got too much blame and now so does Haley. For instance, on the 4th down play yesterday - who decided to go for it all, Haley or Ben? I suspect it was Ben, but we will never know.

Arians and Haley called the plays this season for the two most explosive offenses in the league. Haley also called the plays for those Cardinals squads that lit things up under Warner. Arians made Kelly Holcomb a 4,000 yard passer.

Both guys know their way around an offense.

[Mojouw]

Looks like Arians is up to his old tricks: (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2...ve-their-flaws)

Vulnerability: The Cardinals red-zone offense is not up to championship snuff. The Cardinals settled for two field goals and an interception on three of their six red-zone trips Saturday night. For the season, they ranked 12th in the NFL with a 54.72 percent touchdown conversion rate in the red zone, according to NFLGSIS.com (subscription required).
Ranking 12th isn't terrible, but the Cardinals ranked in the top five in most offensive categories. When they reached the red zone, their lack of a short-yardage running game and the fact that their offense is built on stretching the defense vertically forced them to settle for too many field goals. You don't beat the Panthers by settling for a bunch of field goals.

I think it was the above issue and the QB hits that got him canned. That and he was sorta a scapegoat.

[zulater]

Shhh! That gets in the way of the narrative.

Arians got too much blame and now so does Haley. For instance, on the 4th down play yesterday - who decided to go for it all, Haley or Ben? I suspect it was Ben, but we will never know.

Arians and Haley called the plays this season for the two most explosive offenses in the league. Haley also called the plays for those Cardinals squads that lit things up under Warner. Arians made Kelly Holcomb a 4,000 yard passer.

Both guys know their way around an offense.

I think Tomlin makes that call. The OC and qb are obviously ready to go with what the head coach decides. Maybe I'm wrong. But I thought it was a given that Tomlin makes the call based on his feel for the game at the time. That's not to say that if 7 or Haley show clear enthusiasm that in certain situations they don't influence him.

Regardless I think I would have gone for the fg in the first quarter and punted in the 4th as Tomlin did. But you can;t fault what he did, particularly in the 1st quarter. Ben had an easy check down to Heath that would have more than netted the first down had he chosen to go with it. And in my opinion 11 clearly was interfered with in the end zone. If that call was made the Steelers would have had first and goal at the one and no one would be complaining about going for it or the play call.

[Mojouw]

I think Tomlin makes that call. The OC and qb are obviously ready to go with what the head coach decides. Maybe I'm wrong. But I thought it was a given that Tomlin makes the call based on his feel for the game at the time. That's not to say that if 7 or Haley show clear enthusiasm that in certain situations they don't influence him.

Regardless I think I would have gone for the fg in the first quarter and punted in the 4th as Tomlin did. But you can;t fault what he did, particularly in the 1st quarter. Ben had an easy check down to Heath that would have more than netted the first down had he chosen to go with it. And in my opinion 11 clearly was interfered with in the end zone. If that call was made the Steelers would have had first and goal at the one and no one would be complaining about going for it or the play call.

That is likely right. I just feel that sometimes Tomlin authorizes the call to go for it on 4th down. Then Haley calls a play. And then Ben gets all googly eyed at a WR he thinks is open deep rather than the underneath guy at the sticks. I just wonder what the "primary" read on some of those play calls is. Like when they talk about it in the meeting room are Tomlin, Haley, and Ben all on the same page that it is the endzone route first and everything else second or is Ben doing that on the fly?

Not that I expect anyone to know the answer(s) to that, but I would be super interested in knowing. It totally changes the complexion of some of those aggressive play-calls over the course of the season. Like did Tomlin think that they were going to go for the conversion and then when Ben comes back to the sidelines, he's like WTF? Or does the team have a fundamental philosophy of always green-lighting the deep ball?

Bad analogy, but bear with me. In baseball some guys get given the okay to steal regardless of game situation or match-up and w/out needing a signal from the coaching staff. Does Ben have that same latitude with the deep ball in 3rd and 4th down situations? Or does he just know that no one is going to question it?

[steelreserve]

I just think it's funny how Whisenhunt was made out to be such a genius and Arians such a bumbling fool by many Steelers fans when Arians' Cardinals teams have performed far and away better than Whisenhunt's ever did, one fluke Super Bowl appearance when Fitz was playing out of his mind notwithstanding.

Arians is a much better head coach than an offensive coordinator. Whisenhunt was a much better coordinator than a head coach. A couple other guys named Haley and Munchak have the same thing going on. That's all there is to that.

[st33lersguy]

Looks like Arians is up to his old tricks: (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2...ve-their-flaws)

Vulnerability: The Cardinals red-zone offense is not up to championship snuff. The Cardinals settled for two field goals and an interception on three of their six red-zone trips Saturday night. For the season, they ranked 12th in the NFL with a 54.72 percent touchdown conversion rate in the red zone, according to NFLGSIS.com (subscription required).
Ranking 12th isn't terrible, but the Cardinals ranked in the top five in most offensive categories. When they reached the red zone, their lack of a short-yardage running game and the fact that their offense is built on stretching the defense vertically forced them to settle for too many field goals. You don't beat the Panthers by settling for a bunch of field goals.

I think it was the above issue and the QB hits that got him canned. That and he was sorta a scapegoat.

The terrible play in the red zone was just one reason why he was canned. Look at their game in Pittsburgh, 450+ but only 13 points to show for it.

[zulater]

That is likely right. I just feel that sometimes Tomlin authorizes the call to go for it on 4th down. Then Haley calls a play. And then Ben gets all googly eyed at a WR he thinks is open deep rather than the underneath guy at the sticks. I just wonder what the "primary" read on some of those play calls is. Like when they talk about it in the meeting room are Tomlin, Haley, and Ben all on the same page that it is the endzone route first and everything else second or is Ben doing that on the fly?

Not that I expect anyone to know the answer(s) to that, but I would be super interested in knowing. It totally changes the complexion of some of those aggressive play-calls over the course of the season. Like did Tomlin think that they were going to go for the conversion and then when Ben comes back to the sidelines, he's like WTF? Or does the team have a fundamental philosophy of always green-lighting the deep ball?

Bad analogy, but bear with me. In baseball some guys get given the okay to steal regardless of game situation or match-up and w/out needing a signal from the coaching staff. Does Ben have that same latitude with the deep ball in 3rd and 4th down situations? Or does he just know that no one is going to question it?

I may be wrong, but I think it goes something like this. Tomlin decides whether to go for it or not. But once that decision is passed on to Haley it's entirely up to Haley to call the right play. Now of course as is true with any given play the qb has multiple options on the play, or he can audible out of it if he sees something in the defense. We've seen several times where Ben and AB make it up on the go just among themselves and the rest of the team is left to improvise after the fact. In other words, Ben doesn't change the play call in as much as line blocking assignments, formation and such, but if he sees AB one on one with a Cb backed off him he may change the play with just a glance or slight gesture to Brown. Anyway more often than not this works. So I think Tomlin just gives the go ahead on going for it or kicking on 4th down, but once decided its up to Haley and Ben to make it work. If the percentages start stacking up against what's being called working then I think Tomlin might need to take Haley and Ben to task on the decisions they're making and preach a more conservative approach. And I think that time might have already come. I might be wrong but it seems to me the Steelers 4th down conversion rate is below average. I think Ben might need to be reigned in a little on these plays. Too often lately he seems to be going downfield at the expense of extending the drive with a checkdown. Funny enough the hurt arm against the Bengals may actually have worked in Ben and the Steelers favor last week in Cincy. Him taking the dumpdowns that were given to him have become out of character.

- - - Updated - - -

That is likely right. I just feel that sometimes Tomlin authorizes the call to go for it on 4th down. Then Haley calls a play. And then Ben gets all googly eyed at a WR he thinks is open deep rather than the underneath guy at the sticks. I just wonder what the "primary" read on some of those play calls is. Like when they talk about it in the meeting room are Tomlin, Haley, and Ben all on the same page that it is the endzone route first and everything else second or is Ben doing that on the fly?

Not that I expect anyone to know the answer(s) to that, but I would be super interested in knowing. It totally changes the complexion of some of those aggressive play-calls over the course of the season. Like did Tomlin think that they were going to go for the conversion and then when Ben comes back to the sidelines, he's like WTF? Or does the team have a fundamental philosophy of always green-lighting the deep ball?

Bad analogy, but bear with me. In baseball some guys get given the okay to steal regardless of game situation or match-up and w/out needing a signal from the coaching staff. Does Ben have that same latitude with the deep ball in 3rd and 4th down situations? Or does he just know that no one is going to question it?

I may be wrong, but I think it goes something like this. Tomlin decides whether to go for it or not. But once that decision is passed on to Haley it's entirely up to Haley to call the right play. Now of course as is true with any given play the qb has multiple options on the play, or he can audible out of it if he sees something in the defense. We've seen several times where Ben and AB make it up on the go just among themselves and the rest of the team is left to improvise after the fact. In other words, Ben doesn't change the play call in as much as line blocking assignments, formation and such, but if he sees AB one on one with a Cb backed off him he may change the play with just a glance or slight gesture to Brown. Anyway more often than not this works. So I think Tomlin just gives the go ahead on going for it or kicking on 4th down, but once decided its up to Haley and Ben to make it work. If the percentages start stacking up against what's being called working then I think Tomlin might need to take Haley and Ben to task on the decisions they're making and preach a more conservative approach. And I think that time might have already come. I might be wrong but it seems to me the Steelers 4th down conversion rate is below average. I think Ben might need to be reigned in a little on these plays. Too often lately he seems to be going downfield at the expense of extending the drive with a checkdown. Funny enough the hurt arm against the Bengals may actually have worked in Ben and the Steelers favor last week in Cincy. Him taking the dumpdowns that were given to him have become out of character.

[fansince'76]

Arians is a much better head coach than an offensive coordinator. Whisenhunt was a much better coordinator than a head coach. A couple other guys named Haley and Munchak have the same thing going on. That's all there is to that.

Yes, but I heard on more than one occasion that Arians wasn't even fit to coach a Pee-Wee team. And his "failure" as a HC at Temple (not exactly a historical college football powerhouse to begin with) was also brought up ad nauseam in support of that argument. I was just poking fun at the (in many cases) outright rabid and over-the-top hatred for the guy and the downright irrational vitriol towards him.

Not to mention the season he won Coach of the Year filling in for Pagano in Indy being written off as "the players were inspired by Pagano's battle with cancer, and Arians was just the beneficiary of that." Then he became HC of Arizona and it was predicted he'd fall on his face and be canned within 3 years and instead he wins a second Coach of the Year award and the team has continued to post a better record than the previous season every year he's been there so far.

Maybe the guy isn't quite the idiot numbnut that Yinzer Nation painted him to be after all.

[zulater]

Next time you want to tar and feather Tomlin over his in game decisions consider Bellichick's last 4 games this year

1. A win away from clinching the AFC's 1 seed the Patriots tie the Jets late to force overtime. Win the coin toss, elect to kick the ball, and then never see the ball in OT as the Jets score a TD and win the game.

2. Still with his destiny in his own hands goes to Miami. A team who's season is long ago over. Basically doesn't even try to win ( as attested by Brady's 5 first half pass attempts.) So essentially concedes the 1 seed to the one team that owns him in their building.

3. Divisional playoff game, guarding a 7 point lead. 2nd and 12 at the Chiefs 46. 1.08 left in the game, the Chiefs holding two time outs. Brady passes, right to a Chief! Could have been a pick 6! But Pats luck out, bounces off Chiefs player's shoulder pad right to Pats receiver for first down Imagine if that interception happens as it should have.

4. 4th quarter, trailing by 8. 4th and 6 at the Broncos 14. 2.15 on the clock all 3 time outs in your pocket. Denver's offense has been in deep freeze for the second half. You go for it and fail. Had you kicked the fg, the Broncos would have needed at least 2 first downs to keep your offense off the field with ample time to drive for the winning TD. You wouldn't have even needed to onsides kick. Just stop an offense that had assumed turtle mode for the previous 25 minutes and it's there for the taking!


OK getting back to the here and now. Yes those decisions weren't as lopsided as I portrayed them. But the point is if Tomlin had this run over 4 games everyone would be killing him, calling him the biggest idiot on earth.

Something to consider maybe?

[SteelersProfessor]

Arians is a better head coach than he was a Steelers OC. Simple. I was never a huge critic or fan of his. He helped Ben get better, but they hit the proverbial wall as a coach qb. I think Ben has grown into a better qb under Haley.

No he hasn't. Ben is irrelevant. The ONLY thing that has changed for BA now is his pay and his title.

They run his offense, and he calls the plays in Arizona. Just like he did in Pittsburgh.

The ONLY way, to save Ben now, is to send Haley and his BS tricks on his way and promote Randy Fichtner.

Or Ben's new deal is a complete waste of time.

[zulater]

No he hasn't. Ben is irrelevant. The ONLY thing that has changed for BA now is his pay and his title.

They run his offense, and he calls the plays in Arizona. Just like he did in Pittsburgh.

The ONLY way, to save Ben now, is to send Haley and his BS tricks on his way and promote Randy Fichtner.

Or Ben's new deal is a complete waste of time.

Guess we might as well just concede the 16 season then huh? 'Cause Haley's not going anywhere. And funny enough I seem to remember the Steelers being a 3rd string rb's fumble away from advancing to the AFC title game. This without service of the best wr in the game.

Uh yeah.. if you think the Ben -Haley collaboration is a "complete waste of time" perhaps you'd find better use of your own time than posting on the message board of a team obviously doomed to failure.

[SteelersProfessor]

Guess we might as well just concede the 16 season then huh? 'Cause Haley's not going anywhere.

And just like the last 4 years? Neither will this team.

When Haley decides to stop his inane substitutions, his BS tricks, and trying to prove how clever he is? They MIGHT win something of importance.

Until then? Not a chance.

Ben has three good years left. Either treat them like Denver did Elway's final three? Or do him a favor and send him to someone who will.

[silver & black]

I'd love to take him off your hands for three years. Carr would learn a ton in three years behind Ben.

[Hawkman]

And just like the last 4 years? Neither will this team.

When Haley decides to stop his inane substitutions, his BS tricks, and trying to prove how clever he is? They MIGHT win something of importance.

Until then? Not a chance.

Ben has three good years left. Either treat them like Denver did Elway's final three? Or do him a favor and send him to someone who will.




[/COLOR]

So what troll haven do you hail from?

[Mojouw]

I'd be careful for those calls for Randy Fichtner. Remember Tom Clements? Was supposed to be a massive loss that he wasn't bumped from QB coach to OC. Got handed the reins in Green Bay this year as OC. Couldn't get mcuh done with Rodgers at the controls.

If this is how the off-season threads are going to be, I might have to hibernate until camp starts!

[Shoes]

One Tee-Tee hated Tomlin, his brother hates Haley. LMAO!

[86WARD]

No he hasn't. Ben is irrelevant. The ONLY thing that has changed for BA now is his pay and his title.

They run his offense, and he calls the plays in Arizona. Just like he did in Pittsburgh.

The ONLY way, to save Ben now, is to send Haley and his BS tricks on his way and promote Randy Fichtner.

Or Ben's new deal is a complete waste of time.

So arguably being the best offense in the league for two seasons has nothing to do with Haley...lol.

Funny how people complained when Arians ran a very, very bland playbook? Probably looking for more trick plays, more creative plays...the kind that came from Whisenhunts playbook? But Haley tries to do some of that and he's terrible for it.

[salamander]

I'm not even wasting my time with the troll...

[hawaiiansteeler]

And just like the last 4 years? Neither will this team.

When Haley decides to stop his inane substitutions, his BS tricks, and trying to prove how clever he is? They MIGHT win something of importance.

Until then? Not a chance.

Ben has three good years left. Either treat them like Denver did Elway's final three? Or do him a favor and send him to someone who will.

Crash, welcome to Steelers Universe...

[hawaiiansteeler]

I'm not even wasting my time with the troll...

this troll's infamous screen name is "Crash" and if you thought Tee Tee was annoying wait until you get a steady dose of this guy...