Interesting Take on Lebeau and on Keenan Lewis

[Mojouw]

Lebeau is adaptable apparently -- http://presnapreads.com/2014/05/24/d...lity-to-adapt/


And Lewis is not that good in off coverage -- http://presnapreads.com/2014/06/01/k...-verdict-2014/

[steelreserve]

Of course LeBeau is adaptable. He's been trying to play a 3-4 defense without a nose tackle or a secondary for years now. THAT'S innovation!

[Steelerette]

We can get away with average cornerbacks if we've got at least one good Safety, and a real nose tackle...

Look, I understand the resistance to spending a high draft pick on a player who's potentially "only on the field for two defensive downs"... but when you base your whole defense on a 3-4, well, everything else kind of depends on that one guy in the middle...

I mean when we had Aaron Smith and Casey Hampton and a young Troy Polamalu, we got away with Deshea Townsend, just fine...

Remember the year we tried to play Kemo von Oelhoffen at NT? I guess the good thing was, we did bad enough to be in position to draft Hampton.

[GBMelBlount]

Of course LeBeau is adaptable. He's been trying to play a 3-4 defense without a nose tackle or a secondary for years now. THAT'S innovation!

LOL

[steelreserve]

Look, I understand the resistance to spending a high draft pick on a player who's potentially "only on the field for two defensive downs"... but when you base your whole defense on a 3-4, well, everything else kind of depends on that one guy in the middle...

Seriously, what the hell? You hear people making that argument all the time.

"OMG the nose tackle might only be on the feild for two downs!! YOU CANT SPEND A HIGH DRAFT PICK ON THAT!!!"

Well, what would you rather do - have the defense suck ass on first and second down while you congratulate yourself on saving a draft pick? Cause that's your other option.

[Steelerette]

Seriously, what the hell? You hear people making that argument all the time.

"OMG the nose tackle might only be on the feild for two downs!! YOU CANT SPEND A HIGH DRAFT PICK ON THAT!!!"

Well, what would you rather do - have the defense suck ass on first and second down while you congratulate yourself on saving a draft pick? Cause that's your other option.

The kicker is, if you run a 3-4 without a good nose tackle, how often is it going to be 3rd down anyways?

[steelreserve]

The kicker is, if you run a 3-4 without a good nose tackle, how often is it going to be 3rd down anyways?

Well, maybe it'll be third-and-short. So then you could bring in your big run-stopping nose tack--

oh. wait.

[Count Hogan]

If McCullers were two inches shorter he'd have gone four rounds higher, brother. I too am worried about that lynchpin in our defensive line, but Dan is a fit man, not a fat man. If he can learn to play low it might work out after all.

[Chidi29]

Well we already have a nose tackle on the roster so I'm not too worried.

For 2014, I'm more worried about the DE spot opposite of Heyward. Go with the 21 year old Tuitt or the "not really a 5 tech" Cam Thomas?

[Steelerette]

Well we already have a nose tackle on the roster so I'm not too worried.

For 2014, I'm more worried about the DE spot opposite of Heyward. Go with the 21 year old Tuitt or the "not really a 5 tech" Cam Thomas?

By all accounts Tuitt should be pretty danged good... but not right away. To me the most palatable thing that could happen is to bring back Keisel.

I think McLendon is a better version of "not quite a true NT, not exactly a DE, but pretty good swing backup" than Thomas is. After how our draft went I'd almost rather cut Thomas, play McLendon at NT until either Fangupo or McCullers can take it from him... then roll with Keisel and Heyward at DE while Tuitt and another guy develops (for instance Arnfelt or Mauro, though I know you don't like him lol )

[steelreserve]

Right now pretty much our only option is Thomas at NT; McLendon just isn't cut out for it and I doubt McCullers will be anywhere near ready. I wouldn't mind seeing Keisel back for one more season, but on the other hand, fuck it - if Tuitt is that good, we shouldn't be pussyfooting around it any more. This taboo about rookie starters or even rookies making any significant contributions is just way out of hand. OMG ROOKIES CANT CONTRIBUTE - IT TAKES AT LEAST 20 YEARS TO LEARN LEBEAU'S SYSTEM!!!! Well, maybe I can see LBs having a lot to learn about where to be on the field, or DBs because that's a hard position anyway. Defensive linemen, it seems more like - are you ready to play in the NFL in general.

One other thing I wonder: If it takes years and years to learn LeBeau's system, why haven't we made it any easier to learn? Every other team has no problem with this. Plenty of them have good defenses too. It's a stupid problem to have.

[Chidi29]

Agreed...I'm all for bringing back Keisel.

I think most people who want to discount McLendon (not you but generally speaking) based on last year's run defense are off base considering McLendon didn't get to play very often with all the sub-package football the Steelers were in. But I do see him as a starter even if he isn't your "traditional" nose tackle. Still work to do, mostly on his technique and according to Mitchell, playing as himself and not Hamp, but he's certainly capable and showed it last year.

[Mojouw]

One other thing I wonder: If it takes years and years to learn LeBeau's system, why haven't we made it any easier to learn? Every other team has no problem with this. Plenty of them have good defenses too. It's a stupid problem to have.

This. This has been a bullshit dodge for years. NE puts in almost a totally new defense each week and plays rookies all the time. The Ravens play a similar scheme to the Steelers and they play rookies. Same for the Cards. Also Seattle has had a bit of success lately rolling with rookies in prominent roles.

I always felt this started as a polite cover reason for Cowher to play the veteran and then it became entrenched as policy.

They need to find a way to play the young guys. They are faster and cheaper.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Right now pretty much our only option is Thomas at NT; McLendon just isn't cut out for it and I doubt McCullers will be anywhere near ready. I wouldn't mind seeing Keisel back for one more season, but on the other hand, fuck it - if Tuitt is that good, we shouldn't be pussyfooting around it any more. This taboo about rookie starters or even rookies making any significant contributions is just way out of hand. OMG ROOKIES CANT CONTRIBUTE - IT TAKES AT LEAST 20 YEARS TO LEARN LEBEAU'S SYSTEM!!!! Well, maybe I can see LBs having a lot to learn about where to be on the field, or DBs because that's a hard position anyway. Defensive linemen, it seems more like - are you ready to play in the NFL in general.

One other thing I wonder: If it takes years and years to learn LeBeau's system, why haven't we made it any easier to learn? Every other team has no problem with this. Plenty of them have good defenses too. It's a stupid problem to have.

Amen. The 49ers under Mike Singletary simplified the defense a lot after a disasterous 1st campaign, and slowly added complexities leading up to/and through jim harbaugh's time there. there was an article on that a long time ago. Now they are doing very well for themselves on defense

[Chidi29]

I don't think any team really wants to start a rookie for an entire season, unless it's a top ten, can't miss prospect which the Steelers' haven't had in ages. Most do out of circumstance. Injuries or just no one else available. If coaches had it their way, rookie would sit and learn or at worst, be limited.

The Steelers' have been fortunate to have great defenses and the ability to have younger guys sit and learn. That's why you haven't seen any start since Kendrell Bell.

[steelreserve]

I don't think any team really wants to start a rookie for an entire season, unless it's a top ten, can't miss prospect which the Steelers' haven't had in ages. Most do out of circumstance. Injuries or just no one else available. If coaches had it their way, rookie would sit and learn or at worst, be limited.

The Steelers' have been fortunate to have great defenses and the ability to have younger guys sit and learn. That's why you haven't seen any start since Kendrell Bell.

It hasn't really been much to complain about in past seasons. We didn't play a rookie much, it was usually because there was someone competent in front of him. Tuitt is probably the most intriguing case in years to get extended playing time, though. He's a supposedly uber-talented player at a position that's probably the easiest (relatively speaking) on this defense to plug into, and the only other options on the roster are basically backups and guys who would be playing out of position. Who knows. Here's hoping he gives something to be excited about.

Shazier is one I could actually stand if he only saw limited action, since we have other decent options there. So far it sounds like he's the first choice though, which if he's ready for it would be a great help.

I also think that anyone expecting McCullers to even see the field this year except for a few super-limited situations (goal-line formations and field goal blocks) is probably smoking crack.

[Chidi29]

Tuitt has a great opportunity because of how poor the competition is. Without playing a down, he's already the second most talented DE on the team. I just don't want him to play 700 snaps like what we'd be asking from a full-time DE. That's too much to handle, both physically and mentally for a 21 year old five tech.

[BigNastyDefense]

I think this might be the Year of the Rookie for the Steelers defense.

As said before, in the past rookies sat because there was someone competent in front of them.

At this moment, I would say Tuitt is the second best DE on the team (behind Heyward.) Everyone else is nothing more than a career backup, out-of-position, or a scrub. Unless he gets hurt or looks horrible in TC/Preseason, he should start from game one, even if the Steelers re-sign Keisel. If they do re-sign him, it'll help Tuitt's progression and the rookie won't have to play a ton of snaps, giving him some time to learn and keep his legs fresh. It's the easiest position on this defense for a rookie to start or play a significant role.

Ryan Shazier is going to shock everyone by being the first rookie linebacker to start for the Steelers since Kendrell Bell in 2001. I watched him his entire career at Ohio State and I am not being a homer when I say this kid is going to be one hell of a linebacker. Speed, instincts, and the ability to actually tackle. I think he can win DROY. The competition at ILB isn't that strong either, so that helps his chances to start.

[Chidi29]

Shazier starting won't be a shock to anyone considering he's already running with the first team.

[GBMelBlount]

Right now pretty much our only option is Thomas at NT; McLendon just isn't cut out for it and I doubt McCullers will be anywhere near ready. I wouldn't mind seeing Keisel back for one more season, but on the other hand, fuck it - if Tuitt is that good, we shouldn't be pussyfooting around it any more. This taboo about rookie starters or even rookies making any significant contributions is just way out of hand. OMG ROOKIES CANT CONTRIBUTE - IT TAKES AT LEAST 20 YEARS TO LEARN LEBEAU'S SYSTEM!!!! Well, maybe I can see LBs having a lot to learn about where to be on the field, or DBs because that's a hard position anyway. Defensive linemen, it seems more like - are you ready to play in the NFL in general.

One other thing I wonder: If it takes years and years to learn LeBeau's system, why haven't we made it any easier to learn? Every other team has no problem with this. Plenty of them have good defenses too. It's a stupid problem to have.

Complex, but still the number one overall defense in the NFL during Lebeau's tenure

Just because a system is more complex and takes longer to learn isn't necessarily bad.

In fact, aren't there several players who have left for other teams with simpler defenses and tanked and then done much better when they returned and were plugged back into our system?