All the scouts, even on this board, will never admit that any guy has mastered the game at the college level.Originally Posted by st33lersguy
I heard a podcast today that mentioned a one year player (ex basketballer) who may move into first round steeler range after the combine. He hasn't even begun to learn his position, let alone understand the game.
http://www.steelersdepot.com/2015/01...inten-rollins/
"NUMBER 7 FOR OUR BELOVED ONE IN HEAVEN"
I am talking about raw still learning the position vs a guy who is technically sound who had a great career at the college level
I am not a big Dupree fan. I think he struggles to shed blockers and if the Steelers want a guy that can help them early, I would rather have a lesser athlete that is more developed in his game than I would an elite athlete that has a steep learning curve. I think Dupree is a couple seasons away at best. And, he tends to want to hang outside sometimes, keeping space between himself and a blocker. I am not so sure that he is reading the play or if he does not want to engage because he cannot shed the block. He would rather run around the blocker than beat it. If he goes in the first, I hope he goes somewhere else. Just do not think he is worth that value. I would rather move down and take another guy later. I think the 2nd round is where the real value is found when you are looking for a pass rusher.
I am not a fan of Dupree in round 1 either , value not there at all for me , would much rather have several of the guys many thing will be on the board in round 2 ( nearly same talent level and much better value ) talked about this earlier in the thread
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take away the Connor Cook statement because he did not declare
A guy I like is Hau'oli Kikaha. Now, he is far from a finished product in coverage and may never be as good as Woodley, but he does drop in zones and will pick up some man coverage at times. In that area, he is not great, but good enough. He is pretty stout at the point. I like how he bends the corner. Even when offensive tackles engage, he does a nice job of not getting run past the QB. He also uses that outside speed rush to set up some inside moves. He will throw a spin, shows the rip, arm over, and works well with his hands. He is a guy that does not seem to stick on blocks. Instead of posting a ton of videos showing a lot of stuff, here are some highlights for Danny Shelton. I would suggest watching how many times Kikaha ran the arc and forced the QB to step up. Shelton made a lot of plays because the QB stepped right into his kitchen and much of that was due to Kikaha forcing the issue. I would also point out how many times teams slipped their RB over to help the OT on Kikaha.
The kid from UCLA with every letter of the alphabet in his name is pretty solid too. I like Fowler, just not sure I want to pay that price. All those guys get off blockers. Tired of seeing OLBs have a tackle put their hands on them and they are done.
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Man,Shelton looks very quick for his size! Do you take him if he's there at 22?
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300...-vince-wilfork
I wouldn't ... I think he is over rated , he has some good tape no question about it but he also turns in his fair share of dud performances ..
kinda funny look who they compare Shelton to ( and the review not all that great either ) seems they like him even less than me but for all the same reasons http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/profil...ton?id=2552325
I do not. I think Shelton will struggle to hold his ground in the NFL and will have to work on that area. When he locks up with guys, he tends to press to a side, working to get free. He does that on his own often. He gives up gap integrity when he does it. In essence, he does not have the feel of a 2-gap guy. Those things happen when he is asked to play a 2-gap style. He just lacks the ability to grow roots and hold the position. He is at his best when he can work into a gap, play up the field, and penetrate. I think his best fit is in an up-tempo 4-3 chase defense like you see with Atlanta, Tampa Bay, Detroit, or St. Louis. I think asking him to play the nose in a 3-4 is taking him away from his strength unless you run a Ryan 3-4, where you 1-gap the nose.
I also think that since the Steelers went with undersized ILBs, you need a 2-gap nose. It would preclude a fundamental change in our defense. And, if you put on the junior tape of Stephon Tuitt, he plays a very similar style. The difference is, Tuitt showed the ability to be a 2-gap player as well. He was not as effective as a senior when he weighed 320, but is back down to 305 now and has that quickness back.
Another thing that bothers me, Shelton was weighed at the Senior Bowl and touched the scale at 343-pounds. He pumped his fist, happy. He stated he ballooned to 360-pounds after the football season was over. Steeler fans were all over Casey Hampton at the end of his career because of his size, but few remember that Hampton was only 314-pounds at the combine. Shelton is a big dude right now. His weight is an issue. If you look at Hampton while at Texas, he did not carry a pile of weight on his mid-section.
But, compare that to Shelton:
Shelton looks like Hampton does when Hampton was 30. What if he adds the weight back after he gets drafted?
I do not. I think Shelton will struggle to hold his ground in the NFL and will have to work on that area. When he locks up with guys, he tends to press to a side, working to get free. He does that on his own often. He gives up gap integrity when he does it. In essence, he does not have the feel of a 2-gap guy. Those things happen when he is asked to play a 2-gap style. He just lacks the ability to grow roots and hold the position. He is at his best when he can work into a gap, play up the field, and penetrate. I think his best fit is in an up-tempo 4-3 chase defense like you see with Atlanta, Tampa Bay, Detroit, or St. Louis. I think asking him to play the nose in a 3-4 is taking him away from his strength unless you run a Ryan 3-4, where you 1-gap the nose.
I also think that since the Steelers went with undersized ILBs, you need a 2-gap nose. It would preclude a fundamental change in our defense. And, if you put on the junior tape of Stephon Tuitt, he plays a very similar style. The difference is, Tuitt showed the ability to be a 2-gap player as well. He was not as effective as a senior when he weighed 320, but is back down to 305 now and has that quickness back.
Another thing that bothers me, Shelton was weighed at the Senior Bowl and touched the scale at 343-pounds. He pumped his fist, happy. He stated he ballooned to 360-pounds after the football season was over. Steeler fans were all over Casey Hampton at the end of his career because of his size, but few remember that Hampton was only 314-pounds at the combine. Shelton is a big dude right now. His weight is an issue. If you look at Hampton while at Texas, he did not carry a pile of weight on his mid-section.
But, compare that to Shelton:
Shelton looks like Hampton does when Hampton was 30. What if he adds the weight back after he gets drafted?
he is the Willie Parker of DT's , he feasts vs weaker opponents ( more specifically weak centers ) and struggles vs the better ones , not someone I would want to invest a first round pick in
With a couple of the latest developments at WR. it look like we may be more interested in drafting a WR. I think we would have anyway, but now it could be a little more serious. There are a couple of names I am very interested in.
Jamison Crowder. Despite his lack of size has shown he maybe one to watch. Is more quick than fast, and can change direction in a dime. I think this is more important in getting himself open. Has good hands and looks to be an instinctive runner which has served him well in the past as a punt returner. Problem, his showing in Senior Bowl practice has brought him a lot of attention. May be the fastest riser as a WR. If him shows this well at the combines he could go much to high for us. I think a good receiver coach would have a field day with this kid.
Tony Lippett. Tony has been one of my favorite WR possibilities. He has very large hand, and a larger catching radius. He is not a body catcher and will snag the ball long before it gets to his body. He will jump, dive, and fight for a catch,,, even if it is not his job,,,, and has often foiled an int. simply be taking the ball away from the defender. Would make a good red zone WR. Probably a 3rd or 4th round pick.
Antwan Goodiey. Has had a good year on an underrated pass happy team. Just seems to make the catch when he had to. Likely to be a later round pick.
Any WRs you would like us to look at? Try to keep it real.
AML
What about Tyler Lockett from Kansas State?
I am just going to throw this out there because it's on my mind and he has been mocked to the Steelers on 2 of the 4 mock drafts I saw on my mock draft binge. If the Steelers select Marcus Peters, I will throw something to the ground like Rex Ryan at the end of the 2010 AFC Championship game. The Steelers have failed miserably with multiple basket cases and there are plenty of ways the Steelers can address the cornerback position without risking disaster.
I agree 110% we have had our share of 10 cent heads , no need to travel that road again any time soon
In my personal opinion, I really don't see the value in drafting a wide receiver. We have AB, a rising player in Martavis Bryant, Wheaton did good enough for his position as a no. 3 WR, and we have probably the best pass-catching RB in the game with Le'Veon Bell, and Heath Miller to catch some passes. That leaves us with a no. 4 WR, a position of little-to-no value. Last year our no. 4 WR was Lance Moore, and he was used so infrequently that he is requesting a release. In my opinion, we can get away with signing random guys in free agency (including un-drafted free agency) to fill the WR depth chart. That's just me, Todd Haley may possibly want to draft one of his other X-factor wide receivers, and I am sure Kevin Colbert has discrepancies in opinions to me on somethings
I would be fine with a couple UDFA types with the right body size , hand and willingness to block top be tossed into the mix and see what develops ( or doesn't and call it a day ) unless someone just to good to pass on falls to late in the draft then by all means take a swing at the fences ...otherwise stay the course and draft Def skill players for the backend , pass rushers and the token TE perhaps a O-Lineman that can play all 3 interior spots ..... spend any free money for a proven Tackle
give me a couple guys like this to get an extended look at for basically free and see what our coaches can do with him
I think this draft is pretty strong at WR, so I would not mind if they spent a pick on one, especially if the right player hit them in the right round. For example, if Sammie Coates slipped to the second round, I would have to strongly consider him. I know it is a second round pick, but it is also a chance to add a dynamic player at WR, I mean a potential consistent visitor to the Pro Bowl. I doubt it happens, but he would be hard to just let slide into the 3rd. Very unlikely, kind of talking out my rear, but I just think if talent falls in your lap, you have to take the talent.
With all that said, I can see them investing a 4th/5th/6th on a WR because in this draft, I think you could hit another Brown type guy in those rounds (not necessarily a Pro Bowler, but a quality WR).
I don't think they would use a pick in any of the first four rounds on a WR, unless something unthinkable happens, but I have thought all alone they would use one of the last two picks on one. I think they may even use a 5th. Particularly if our comp. pick turns out to be a 5th.
AML
Comp pick round pick on a WR, I can handle that.
But with Brown, Wheaton, Bryant, and probably DHB. I won't be surprised if we draft a guy but I also would probably expect some combination of a veteran retread and UDFA talent to be competing with DHB for spots 4 and 5.
You guys might like this draft related video. As I get closer to the draft the players names all seem to get jumbled up in my head
"NUMBER 7 FOR OUR BELOVED ONE IN HEAVEN"
Have been looking at a few mocks, and saw a couple that had us taking Peters, but have more that have us taking Rollins. I know Rollins has been rising fast, but I have never seen him play. Will have to pull up a couple videos on the kid.
AML
very athletic , inexperienced so raw to a degree , has a high ceiling but those type picks are risky but at times can also pay high dividends , I think round 1 is to soon but it only takes 1 team to fall in love
Which brings us back to get the hell out of the 1st round.
AML
The kid has only played one year of college ball I think. The Steelers really should draft a corner with more experience, someone who isn't that much of a project
Daniel Jeremiah has a podcast called Move the Sticks. His last episode was all about how the NFL teams he worked for and how they set their draft boards and what impact the combine has on the movement of players up and down those boards
He also read some of his old scouting reports in full for some current players ( Brian Orakpo was one I can remember)
Very insightful podcast and one that definitely helped this inexperienced NFL mind.
"NUMBER 7 FOR OUR BELOVED ONE IN HEAVEN"
Just a pre-combine mock. Not taking into account any trades that probably won't happen any way.
1. PJ Williams, CB, Got on his bandwagon early, not getting off now
2. Hauoli Kikaha, OLB, Has show an ability to find a path to the QB
3. Gerod Holliman, FS, A hedge for a position that we are still unsure about.
4. David Johnson, RB, If we don't sign a FA could be a good running mate for Bell
5. Xavier Williams, DT, Could be useful if we do play more 4-3.
6. Miles Dieffenbach, OG. A gamble. If he can come back from his torn ACL would likely be a steal in the 6th.
7. Don't really have a name here, but would like to see us give one of the small school kids given a shot. Maybe a kid Dwins brought to our attention like Dante Moses.
If we get a comp. pick early enough would like to see us draft another CB. I think Doss is very underrated right now, and would work his way into the starting line up teaming him with Williams.
I know there has got to be a name here you don't like. Tell me who.
AML
We have been doing this a lot time TEX.
This has got to be the first year that you and I aren't on the same wavelength with players. Position wise we very close.
1. PJ Williams, CB, ......................... Marcus Peters CB
2. Hauoli Kikaha, OLB,.................... Lorenzo Mauldin OLB
3. Gerod Holliman, FS, ..................Derron Smith FS
4. David Johnson, RB,...................... Jeremy Langford RB
5. Xavier Williams, DT...................... Derrick Lott DT
6. Miles Dieffenbach, OG. ................. Tyrus Thompson OT
7. Dante Moses...............................
this is the most polarising draft class I have seen for a long time.
Across the board I see players with a good range of skills but with some noticeable holes in their game.
eg. Kikaha is a strong, leverage pass rusher who struggles in coverage whilst Mauldin has less strength but greater range.
In Aussie terms: If we are going to local dance we all fell like we are taking a good looking girl , but she certainly isn't a beauty queen. But we are confident that our date is better looking than our best friends girl. To make ourselves feel better we all decide to drink more beer to ensure she looks prettier than she really is. Then you hope in the morning when you wake up you hope that you don't have to chew your own arm off to get away.
Translation: I think my players are OK but I definitely have reservations about them, plus the other viable options.
"NUMBER 7 FOR OUR BELOVED ONE IN HEAVEN"
We're not as far off as you may think Ausse. If the Steeler are comfortable with Peters I would take him in a heart beat. I just don't have that comfort zone with Peters yet. To me he is high reward, higher risk right now.
Mauldin would be my second choice at OLB. Just thinking Kikaha could power himself through a block if he gets tied up in traffic. You do have a good point with the coverage though.
I went back and forth between Holliman and Smith. This is liable to be a choice one of the teams ahead of us makes for us.
Don't see Langford getting out of the 3rd round, plus I think Johnson running with a little more power.
Thompson would be a safer pick but I see Dieffenbach as a high risk, high reward player, a gamble I would be willing to take with a 6th round pick.
Your right most all of these kids have holes in their game. Hopefully some of these holes can be coached out of them.
AML
kind of funny but I could see either of those drafts being my mock ...
the only changes I would make is round 6 pencil me in for Carlif Taylor DT-NT ( I like him a little more than Williams but its close )
round 7 as much as I like Moses I like Arthur Ray Jr a little better ( can play all 3 interior spots )
nice mocks though both of you
Detailed interview with Marcus Peters
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/draft/2015/02/11/marcus-peters-washington-nfl-draft-combine/23259443/
"NUMBER 7 FOR OUR BELOVED ONE IN HEAVEN"
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