Do you not think he's worth it at 22?Originally Posted by Dwinsgames
Seems like there are good corners in the 2-3 rounds which would allow us to not have to reach for one in the first, provided there are any good pass rushers left.
Array title="Steelman has much to be proud of">
Do you not think he's worth it at 22?
Seems like there are good corners in the 2-3 rounds which would allow us to not have to reach for one in the first, provided there are any good pass rushers left.
may be a bit high at 22 ...
22 is just a bad bad spot in this draft IMO pretty large disparity in talent at most positions from 15-18 onward and if we cant get one of those top tier guys from that top area I am not so sure we should be selecting at that point cause the value is not truly there ... however that being said who is going to be dumb enough to want to come up ( unless its Denver wanting to come up and take a QB who may be there still in a guy like Conner Cook ?? ) ...
I like Dupree but is he a full round in the draft better than say Hauoli Kikaha or Lorenzo Mauldin or Markus Golden ... for me the answer is no
I believe I heard that Cook already said he is going to stay in school.
AML
you may be right , been busy with prospect interviews ( getting them lined up and questions /communications as of late ) missed a bunch of news I am sure
Array title="LLT has a reputation beyond repute">
Being that we will probably free up about 8 mil in cap space if Troy retires.....In a perfect world that could allow us to sign one or two premium free agents. For instance...TE Jordan Cameron, OLB Sam Acho , or perhaps CB Chris Culliver . All who both made about 1.5 mil last year.
I think we could pick up at least two FA's this offseason. That would clear up a rather murky draft scenario.
"I believe the game is designed to reward the ones who hit the hardest. If you can't take it, you shouldn't play"
-- Jack Lambert --
Fix the Defence. Push the Offence over the edge.
Round 1. Bud Dupree DE Kentucky ( Elephant pass rusher that will give Butler some scheme diversity)
Round 2: Jalen Collins CB LSU (word is from Dave-Te Thomas is that the steelers really like him)
Round 3: Ben Koyack TE Notre Dame (Give him a year to learn from Heath and he will be Heath 2.0)
Round 4: Jeremy Langford RB Michigan State (runs with the same patience as Bell. Not the pass catching threat like Bell however)
Round 4 Comp Eric Rowe CB / FS Utah ( if troy retires I look at Will Allen, Shamarko and Mike Mitchell as SS options. Roster will need a FS)
Round 5: Steven Nelson CB Oregon State (I think he falls through the cracks draft day. IMO a late 3rd round talent)
Round 6: James Vaughters OLB Stanford ( a pass rusher who can pass rush and also drop back into coverage. Dupree will be more rush and run plug)
Round 7: Blake Bell TE Oklahoma (emerging on the radar at the shrine game week. smooth pass catcher. )
UDFA
Tre McBride WR / KR Tomlin & Mary ( has some height and is a possession type guy. Let Tomlin get a W&M player to join BM Webb)
Mitch Morse OT/OG Mizzou ( plays LT but will be more an OG)
Cameron Botticelli DT Minnesota ( high motor guy who played beside Hagemann at Minnesota.
"NUMBER 7 FOR OUR BELOVED ONE IN HEAVEN"
Dupree probably will be the pick if available given the new scheme transition and Colbert's love of neglecting the CB position
If Dupree is available is going to be a big question here, but if he is I could see us taking him. That, how ever, does not mean the DB position is going to be ignored. There are several good CB, and safeties that will go in the 2nd and 3rd round. A couple that may be plug in a play players for us. There is still a lot of preparation to get ready for the draft. The most visible to us is the FA process. Signing a player can turn a draft need into a draft luxury.
AML
I like Dupree but must be in the minority here on him ...
for me he lacks ideal strength and struggles to disengage once a Lineman gets his hands on him ( Jarvis Jones has the exact same problem ) , he does not take full advantage of his height and put him arms up to dispute the view of the QB ...
there are guys I like as much , maybe even more that may be had in the second round
Don't know if you are in the minority as much as what some of us think may happen. If it is a choice of Dupree or trading down, I would still rather trade down.
AML
I could see the team going safety as early as the 3rd if they don't sign one, but corner will get ignored until round 5 again
if it is I will definitely break something
Your still talking out of last years disappointment. I could be wrong, but I expect a CB no later than the 3rd round.
AML
I watched a lot of film on Dupree and the more I watch the more natural football instincts to read a play I see in him than other DE / OLB's
He diagnoses plays better than most. He doesn't put his head down and charge blindly. This makes him an asset in the run game as he is able to move towards the runner and not over run it. He remains in the play more than most. I see this a lot from guys like Orchard, Fowler, Mauldin, Kikaha. They are all good pass rushers ( equal to Dupree) but I think his asset is to contain the run game.
I see his awareness allowing him to slid past the blockers and get to the blocker. Truthfully I haven't seen him get locked up like you say.
He has played standing up, with his hand down and on both sides.
I am wanting a guy who can play in the style of James Harrison ( rush and run contain). Not saying his is even close to Harrison but closing down the run has to be a priority for one of the edge rushers on this team.
My main issue with scouting all the edge rushers is in the way their sacks have occurred. Most (like the Jarvis Jones college sacks) come on free runs at the QB. These sacks quickly disappear in the NFL.
I prefer to watch how a player handles the other 98% of their rushes and how they fight to stay in the play. This is why I have Dupree at the top of my list.
(note: I haven't scouted Randy Gregory or Shane Ray as I believe they are out of play
"NUMBER 7 FOR OUR BELOVED ONE IN HEAVEN"
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/p...7/alvin-dupree
Rob Rang says .....WEAKNESSES: Needs to get stronger. Struggles to rip himself free once engaged, relying on his agility and savvy to slip by would-be blockers, rather than physically breaking their grasp. Rarely gets his hands up to cloud the vision of quarterbacks. Sometimes takes wide angles in pursuit, giving up extra yardage.
COMPARES TO: Kamerion Wimbley, Tennessee Titans - Like Wimbley, Dupree has the blend of length and burst to enjoy a long, productive career as an NFL edge rusher. To achieve his full potential, however, he'll need to get stronger in run support.
Matt Miller says .... http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2...ok-for-week-15Weaknesses
- Must learn secondary pass-rushing moves. Needs a Plan-B pass rush.
- Doesn't generate a ton of power for a good bull rush.
- May be physically maxed out.
- Film shows his production was at times uncontested and a routine play.
- Has to improve angles to the ball-carrier vs. the run.
- Can be slow off the ball and may be mis-timing snap anticipation.
NFL.com says .... http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/profil...ree?id=2552289Weaknesses
Tall but not long. Wins with athleticism over skill at this point. Some scouts believe his instincts are below average, leading to hesitation. Will get caught taking bad angles to the ball. Needs to improve hand fighting. Still raw rushing the passer. Doesn't possess a go-to pass-rush move. Appears to lack urgency in-game.
I want more in the first round than that ...we have one of those guys in Jarvis Jones ... fool me once shame on you fool me twice ... NOPE to steal a line from the immortal band the Who .... I wont get fooled again ....oh no
But what do your eyes see Dwins?
In todays day and age a lot of internet guys are only watching draftbreakdown ( like you and me). Matt Miller may have better access to players at the organised events but at the end of the day it is all about film and their personal opinions.
By the nature of being an internet writer they all must write positives and negatives.
Lets analyse Matt millers comments
1. Elite athlete with grown-man strength, ideal wingspan and very good burst VERSUS Doesn't generate a ton of power for a good bull rush.
2. Added 15 pounds of muscle to his frame before senior season, per coaches. VERSUS May be physically maxed out.
3. Pops off game film as a player who lives around the ball. Impact defender consistently VERSUS Film shows his production was at times uncontested and a routine play.
4. Tackles with power and can be an intimidating hitter in space. VERSUS Tackles with power and can be an intimidating hitter in space. ( don't forget he was always around the ball)
I call Bullsh*t many times with these guys. They have to have an escape plan incase a player doesn't pan out.
When I see a bird that walks like a duck and swims like a duck and quacks like a duck, I call that bird a duck.
or
When I see a college player that (using Matt Millers words)
*Pops off game film as a player who lives around the ball. Impact defender consistently.
*Shows good Football IQ in reading-and-reacting to different offensive schemes.
*Coaches praise his work ethic and wiring as a player who "gets it."
then I call that man a football player in my mind.
and if you read all of Rob Rang's write up he either stole Millers info or Miller stole his. Or did both just steal it from the some scouting service????
I will stick to what my eyes tell me.
And Dwins, I trust your eyes, just like I trust Tex and Perry's.
"NUMBER 7 FOR OUR BELOVED ONE IN HEAVEN"
I see a ton of good things and he also puts up very good numbers ... but we also seen some very good things and good numbers from Jarvis Jones , what concerns me so much is I got burned by Jones ( to this point ) and some of the things that I felt where weaknesses in Jones's college tape are also some of the same ones in Duprees game ( THAT scares the hell out of me )
and this
to me the value disparity between Dupree and the above 3 guys per example is not much talent wise ... however a full round ( maybe a bit more ) in draft slotting ( at this point we don't know that for certain its all conjecture ) .... I do not see the value in making that selection and I feel its a risky pick ...22 is just a bad bad spot in this draft IMO pretty large disparity in talent at most positions from 15-18 onward and if we cant get one of those top tier guys from that top area I am not so sure we should be selecting at that point cause the value is not truly there ... however that being said who is going to be dumb enough to want to come up ( unless its Denver wanting to come up and take a QB who may be there still in a guy like Conner Cook ?? ) ...
I like Dupree but is he a full round in the draft better than say Hauoli Kikaha or Lorenzo Mauldin or Markus Golden ... for me the answer is no
I do believe Dupree is a slightly better prospect than Jones was but the similarities in their short comings scare me half to death
scratch The Connor Cook comment had missed where he stated was staying in school
as a side note ... could i be wrong .... certainly , clearly to this point I was on Jones
I saw no run stopping capacity out of Jarvis ever. He was a rush guy, like Bruce Davis and other DE's we have missed on. Dupree is nothing like Jones in my eyes. ( chalk and cheese). Jones was schemed open all the time. Dupree is the primary rusher on a lesser team that commands more attention. He is around the ball and importantly for me, tackling low bringing the runner down more often than a person who tackles high. ( in all Southern Hemisphere football we are / and I was coached to tackle the legs and knees. you cant run without legs, no matter how tall the tree)
To me I would like to see Butler have one bigger rusher (like Dupree, Mauldin, Kikaha etc) who is able to change to the weak side to exploit the rush, whilst Jones is able to drop into coverage or rush depending on the read / call.
Worilds could well be that man ( I think the new buzz word is ELEPHANT) who is allowed exclusive rights to rush from the weak side, however not at $8M plus. I don't see anyone else on the roster who may fit that mould. Who that free agent is, I don't know but I am sure one will be coming in.
I think Butler will go full time 1 gap from the D-line ( we saw more of it this season) and he will have a four man rushing front. Also I don't want to see the teams best pass rusher dropping into coverage 25% of the time.
At 22 the realistic options for me are:
1. Brandon Scherff at OG ( DeCastro like fall because everyone has doubts on him as a LT). We don't need a round 1 OG
2. Melvin Gordon. He may well be on the board ( he shouldn't) so I would be trading this spot for someone who wants him
3. Brett Hundley. Someone always overdrafts a QB in the late 1st. Trade down to benefit.
4. Danny Shelton / Danny Goldman - for a 2 down lineman in our system I cannot see value
5. Fowler or Dupree: My eyes see a better football player in Dupree. ( I don't know how to describe it. I couldn't put a finger on it with Kiko Alonzo but I saw something. Same with Dupree. However I have been wrong with many others before)
6. For me the 2 CB's I like the look of are Marcus Peters and Jalen Collins and I wouldn't be surprised to see them climb. Remember Kyle Fuller last year. ( by the way the younger Fuller brother at VTech looks good too) Trae Waynes has been scorched too often for my liking.
7. It aint going to happen but I would even consider Shaq Thompson at SS ( but then we might as well just put Shazier there)
Butler will get a new toy, ideally a rush OLB. I think he will get one of Fowler, Dupree, Kikaha, Mauldin, Orchard. I would gladly take two.
What scares me is if it is Tomlins call I can see it being Orchard because of his speed edge over the others. ( I never saw Shazier ever being considered last year)
The next four months are going to be fun.
Last edited by Aussie_steeler; 01-18-2015 at 02:39 AM. Reason: typo
"NUMBER 7 FOR OUR BELOVED ONE IN HEAVEN"
good post and I fully understand 5 ...
have that unexplainable feeling about several kids every year , cant quite put my finger on a way to explain the "IT" but the feeling is there regardless
next week could make a difference in how I look at a few kids as well ......... I know yesterday disappointed me on some guys who could have made money solidifying themselves at the shrine game a few did pop and make money but damned few compared to the list of guys who could have , some who I had as late 4th onward may actually go undrafted because of it ...
but if I am pulling the trigger in this draft I am going to get SOMEBODY in the defensive backfield with my first pick ( be is CB or S ) and address the pass rush in round 2 ( unless the unfathomable happens and Ray falls 10 or more spots to us )
Holliman 12 or 13 INT is very tempting we need a turnover machine but his seemingly fear of contact is concerning for our play style so he may not even be on their board
Prewitt had a horrible bowl game .... may drop some because of it but was never any better than a 2nd rounder anyways
Smith and Drummond are also 2md -3rd round kind of players that can add some excitement to the def ....
so no real S 1st round guy that fits this team or has 22 kind of value ....
for me this sucks .... I hate being forced into a corner with my selections and we almost are IMO , that is a recipe to over draft on pure need and I hate it ...
when you have 2 specific needs and 1 is considerably larger than the other the potential top make a bad pick is dramatically increased
We may be able to force our way out of that corner. Points 1, 2, 3, 4, and maybe 5 in Aussies post, could be our way out. If one or two of those players make it to 22, there will likely be a team or two falling all over themselves to trade up. We could go from over drafting a player, to getting more out of our pick than we should. If the team thinks that Dupree is the guy they want, or what ever CB that may be there for that matter, they should take him. Otherwise, there is going to be some very good players available in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. Players that would fit our team and make contributions fairly quickly. 2 picks in the 2nd, and 2, maybe 3 if we get a 3rd round comp., would go a long ways in fixing our defense, used properly.
Remember there is still a few players on this team that are question marks. Will Jones show improvement, or turn out to be the bust several think he is? Was Mitchel and Allen in deed injured most of this year, and will they show the ability we thought they had? Will the OL continue to improve, or be as inconsistent has they have been in the past? Can Thomas stay healthy?
Your right Aussie, this is going to be a fun, and frustrating off season.
AML
So, I've been looking at bigger running backs in this years draft that are durable and strong. It would be nice to have a bigger running back who could help the offense with short yardage plays and punching in touchdowns at the goal line. Also, it would be nice to have a bigger running back who could be a nice complement for Le'Veon. A couple of guys have caught my eye and could help our offense. I would say these guys would be drafted anywhere from the forth to the seventh round; players who the Steelers wouldn't use a high draft pick on. Anyways, the first person who comes to mind is David Cobb of Minnesota. According to WalterFootball.com, he is 5-11 and 220 pounds. He's physical, is good with ball security, and has good vision. Here's a short video of his highlights from this past year:
Here is his profile by CBS Sports: http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/p...389/david-cobb
Another guy is Malcolm Brown of Texas. Per WalterFootball.com, he is 6-1 and 228 pounds. Like Cobb, he is physical, is good with ball security, and has good vision, but is even more physical, faster, and has a better first step then Cobb. Here is a video:
CBS Sports profile: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVYtWF3aRAo
Out me down for this kid
http://www.ncaa.com/video/football/2...-northern-iowa
Array title="Steelman has much to be proud of">
Not sure if this was posted earlier, here's Alex's breakdown of Dupree: http://www.steelersdepot.com/2015/01...-alvin-dupree/
nice piece of work by Alex , a lot that I agree with...
as a side note Alex had come a LONG ways in the last two years in his player breakdowns and evaluations , he is good and his arrow is pointed up
He measured in well today at the Senior Bowl.
I watched the cut ups on him last night and he is a highlight real package.
Liked his speed, ability to turn the corner, hands out of the backfield, route running and size.
He didn't show much between the tackles which left me with some questions. Good 3rd down back but can he be a workhorse between the tackles in the NFL??
Don't know if it is a positive or a negative but he looks really loose in the legs when he runs. He looks built for speed, not power.
"NUMBER 7 FOR OUR BELOVED ONE IN HEAVEN"
Rumored that Steelers are enamored with Carl Davis ... he is IMO a second round prospect .. many like him as much or more than Shelton but he figures to be a 2nd round pick ..
that being said make of it what you will
if believing the rumor mill
that would have us Taking
1) Johnson CB
2) Carl Davis NT
I say no to Dupree based on lack of strength, and hell no to Dupree over a DB
Also, the guy is raw, I don't like raw. Raw is OK in the 3rd day when picks panning out mean less, but in the 1st round, I want a polished player who mastered the game at the college level.
(older rumor) Dave-Te Thomas draft chat a few weeks ago at
http://profootball.scout.com/story/1...dave-te-thomas
Which cornerbacks would fit best into the Steelers' defensive scheme?
First, they need to blow up the defense & change their scheme - man coverage no longer works in this league. They need to address the front 7 first & then OLB, but look for Ike Taylor, Polomalu & probably Cortez Allen no longer Steelers. They have a sleeper in Blake, but Rollins-Miami, Ohio & Eric Rowe-Utah would be nice finds in round 3/4 area
Heard they were interested (Pitt) in Collins-LSU as a CB & not as a safety also
"NUMBER 7 FOR OUR BELOVED ONE IN HEAVEN"
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote