Steelers sign Heyward Bey

[LLT]

There's not that many questions about Wheaton yet...The guys was a rookie...a rookie drafted in mid rounds...he's not gonna be Randy Moss coming out of college...he needs time.

Remember when people where worried about Brown and Sanders after the first year? Like you said....they will bring them along when they are ready.

[Shoes]

There's not that many questions about Wheaton yet...The guys was a rookie...a rookie drafted in mid rounds...he's not gonna be Randy Moss coming out of college...he needs time.

That's understood, I suppose Ben's remarks in training camp made me expect more. Ben never said of Sanders & Brown when they were rookies that they didn't make the same mistake twice, learned fast , and were very good route runners and were more than ready.

[st33lersguy]

Well.............. he's fast. Good luck.

By the way, what do you think of the Steelers getting the players drafted in the first 2 rounds of the 2009 draft class?

[Dwinsgames]

Remember when people where worried about Brown and Sanders after the first year? Like you said....they will bring them along when they are ready.

to be fair ....

Brown as a rookie had double the catches of Wheaton and Moye combined and was drafted a few rounds later than Wheaton ( and had a more talented roster to overcome for opportunities )

Sanders had 4 times as many catches as Wheaton and like Brown had a far better corp or WRs to battle for opportunities

and if honest I remember being excited about both of those young men during the off season , Wheaton not so much ..

but that is just my recollection

[Psycho Ward 86]

Remember when people where worried about Brown and Sanders after the first year? Like you said....they will bring them along when they are ready.

No. because it was the exact opposite actually.

[steelreserve]

Brown and Sanders were on display front and center during their rookie years. Sanders was the legitimate #3 receiver and returned kicks, and Brown only had a couple hundred yards, but he was in the game as a return man quite a bit.

Wheaton was basically invisible in a year when a job was his for the taking if he just showed some basic grasp of the game at the pro level. I mean, we had NO #4 receiver at all, and for much of the season, no TE or RB who could catch the ball either. The situation was practically begging for him to come in and get an extended look. Either our coaching staff is retarded (which can't be ruled out), or Wheaton had some glaring flaws. Here's hoping he comes in this year and gets it all sorted out. But the more I think about how desperate we were for healthy bodies last year, the worse that rookie year looks.

[LLT]

No. because it was the exact opposite actually.

Uh...actually no.

We heard NOTHING but how they were not utilized enough. I specifically started a thread in which i said that the fans needed to be patiant. Tomlin even talked about how rookie recievers limit the playbook but would come around in time.

In fact...your own words...

Brown moves like a freakin' rat in small space. I am really liking the potential. Make either Battle or ARE an inactive for godsake

[st33lersguy]

Brown and Sanders were on display front and center during their rookie years. Sanders was the legitimate #3 receiver and returned kicks, and Brown only had a couple hundred yards, but he was in the game as a return man quite a bit.

I don't remember hearing much of Brown until his 2 clutch catches in the playoffs (still pretty impressive given that he was a 6th round rookie delivering in such a pressure packed situation)

[MrPgh]

Brown and Sanders were on display front and center during their rookie years. Sanders was the legitimate #3 receiver and returned kicks, and Brown only had a couple hundred yards, but he was in the game as a return man quite a bit.

Wheaton was basically invisible in a year when a job was his for the taking if he just showed some basic grasp of the game at the pro level. I mean, we had NO #4 receiver at all, and for much of the season, no TE or RB who could catch the ball either. The situation was practically begging for him to come in and get an extended look. Either our coaching staff is retarded (which can't be ruled out), or Wheaton had some glaring flaws. Here's hoping he comes in this year and gets it all sorted out. But the more I think about how desperate we were for healthy bodies last year, the worse that rookie year looks.

You answered your own question. The coaching staff never gave Wheaton a chance, and because of that he's somewhat of a question mark going into next season.

[Mojouw]

Wasn't Wheaton basically injured off and on the whole year? That may make any rookie season comparisons with Brown and Sanders null and void.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Uh...actually no.

We heard NOTHING but how they were not utilized enough. I specifically started a thread in which i said that the fans needed to be patiant. Tomlin even talked about how rookie recievers limit the playbook but would come around in time.

In fact...your own words...

Huh? you asked if people remember when people were worried about brown and sanders. my post says that i liked brown's potential when he was a rookie. my post is in line with what i think now.

and who said anything about utilization? my complaint has nothing to do with wheaton not being utilized enough. i just think he plain sucked his rookie year. again, not all his fault, but sanders and brown showed a lot more their rookie years. as dwins said, i also recollect a lot of excitement surrounding brown and sanders, especially when they proved they can do something their rookie year. hell, even bspn and other sports networks seemed to recognize their abilities (which although, steeler fans were excited, i still find surprising to this day).

i have very little love and confidence for wheaton until he proves something. yeah, i know he's still young. yes, i also know he missed a lot of time with his broken fingers and school. i just have higher expectations these last 2 years after seeing the team falter when the veterans played like they were past their prime or got injured and the youngins couldnt pick it up. we dont have the luxury of grooming young players all over the board anymore.

[LLT]

Huh? you asked if people remember when people were worried about brown and sanders. my post says that i liked brown's potential when he was a rookie. my post is in line with what i think now.

and who said anything about utilization? my complaint has nothing to do with wheaton not being utilized enough. i just think he plain sucked his rookie year. again, not all his fault, but sanders and brown showed a lot more their rookie years. as dwins said, i also recollect a lot of excitement surrounding brown and sanders, especially when they proved they can do something their rookie year. hell, even bspn and other sports networks seemed to recognize their abilities (which although, steeler fans were excited, i still find surprising to this day).

i have very little love and confidence for wheaton until he proves something. yeah, i know he's still young. yes, i also know he missed a lot of time with his broken fingers and school. i just have higher expectations these last 2 years after seeing the team falter when the veterans played like they were past their prime or got injured and the youngins couldnt pick it up. we dont have the luxury of grooming young players all over the board anymore.

My post was a comment based on someone's else's "utilization" comment. How people were making the same type of comments about Brown and Sanders that they are making about Wheaton now.
You read my comment without putting it into the correct context.

[Aussie_steeler]

People have opinions on DHB. Struggled to catch the ball last season. But he was a team guy. Best blocking WR. Volunteered for special teams

https://twitter.com/TribStarTJames/stat ... 8647392256

Saw DHB throw hellacious blocks to spring Luck, Brown, Hilton on TDs. DHB's block for Brown playoff TD knocked KC player out of the game.

https://twitter.com/TribStarTJames/stat ... 8736654336

And while on the subject, DHB was very good influence on guys like Rogers/Brazill. Showed them how to handle adversity. How to stay positive

https://twitter.com/TribStarTJames/stat ... 2251931649

DHB also put his hand up to play gunner on special teams last year. As the tweets above show some people like him. I am included on that side of the debate.

I personally like all the picks so far in free agency. It shows the seriousness towards building a competitive roster, not an entitled roster.

Put 90 players on the training field and let the best 53 win.




Heres a serious question for all:

Is there more or less merit in Rolling the dice and signing an NFL experienced players for one year or drafting an unknown quantity in rounds 5,6 or 7 and signing them to a 2, 3 or 4 Year rookie contract ( not sure of CBA requirements in contract length). Guess it comes back to the quality of your scouting department

[Shoes]

Safe to say, no one wants Wheaton to fail. Lets hope he has a great injury free season.

[TMC]

Wasn't Wheaton basically injured off and on the whole year? That may make any rookie season comparisons with Brown and Sanders null and void.

Yeah, he broke his pinkie finger in week 4 against Minnesota. He had surgery to repair it. He was "out" for about 5 weeks while it healed. He returned to the line up and then broke his middle finger. Out again. So, he spent much of the season with hand issues.

The thing is, people point towards his production, but the only game he started was week 4 against Minnesota. He had 3 catches for 26 yards before he went out with the injury. Five games later, he plays against Detroit and has 3 catches for 38 yards and is injured again. All his production came in those 2 games.

He has to overcome the injury bug, much like Sanders did, but no reason to write him off as when he played, he was productive. Still, I also would not bypass a talented WR in the draft and roll the dice on what I have.

Of course, I do not want to pass any talented player in the draft that can make this team better.

[TMC]

Also, on the Heyward-Bey front, he has the raw goods to be a very good NFL player. He has some drops. Maybe the Steelers WR coach sees something in his game and thinks he can correct it. Dunno. Have to hope that is the case. The Steeler WRs have often stated Ben throws a more catchable ball.

The problem with Heyward-Bey, his hands are awful. He body catches too much because his hands are simply unreliable. He is going to drop one out of every ten passes that come his way, only catching about 4 out of ten. Not great.

I think some of his issues are hand placement. He does not get his fingers together and the ball squirts through. Sometimes, he does not even get both hands on the ball. Just poor. But, he does give you another WR in case the draft turns sour and you need time for a rookie to develop. And, if the draft breaks right and you can nab 2 WRs, I am sure his salary is small enough where a release would not hurt the cap.

I see this as a prove it deal. If he fails to prove it, you just move on. But, what if he does prove something?

[steelreserve]

Heres a serious question for all:

Is there more or less merit in Rolling the dice and signing an NFL experienced players for one year or drafting an unknown quantity in rounds 5,6 or 7 and signing them to a 2, 3 or 4 Year rookie contract ( not sure of CBA requirements in contract length). Guess it comes back to the quality of your scouting department

All else being equal, if you can choose between an NFL player or a low draft pick, you always take the NFL player IMO.

Problem is, there are a limited number of NFL players who you can sign for the minimum salary (which is what "all else being equal" means), and who will also do you much good. If you happen to find someone at the level of DHB on a $600K non-guaranteed contract, versus a Round 5 rookie, you have better odds with the veteran. If it's someone at the level of DHB on a $2.5 million contract, you're probably better off giving the rookie a shot.

[Psycho Ward 86]

My post was a comment based on someone's else's "utilization" comment. How people were making the same type of comments about Brown and Sanders that they are making about Wheaton now.
You read my comment without putting it into the correct context.

regardless, i had no problem with how wheaton was utilized and i have completely differing opinions on sanders/brown vs. wheaton's rookie years.

[tihmtahm]

Didn't the Steelers slap the shit outta Heyward Bey a little while ago?

[GBMelBlount]

All else being equal, if you can choose between an NFL player or a low draft pick, you always take the NFL player IMO.

Problem is, there are a limited number of NFL players who you can sign for the minimum salary (which is what "all else being equal" means), and who will also do you much good. If you happen to find someone at the level of DHB on a $600K non-guaranteed contract, versus a Round 5 rookie, you have better odds with the veteran. If it's someone at the level of DHB on a $2.5 million contract, you're probably better off giving the rookie a shot.

Absolutely

[Shoes]

Not bad!

Pittsburgh Steelers WR Darrius Heyward-Bey's one-year contract only includes $65,000 guaranteed via a signing bonus, with a base salary of $730,000.
- See more at: http://kffl.com/team/30/nfl/gnews.ph....3OlTqoYa.dpuf

[st33lersguy]

Not bad!

Pittsburgh Steelers WR Darrius Heyward-Bey's one-year contract only includes $65,000 guaranteed via a signing bonus, with a base salary of $730,000.
- See more at: http://kffl.com/team/30/nfl/gnews.ph....3OlTqoYa.dpuf

We had $320,000 left in cap space. Does that cap hit put us over the cap or does the $730,000 not kick in until the season starts?

[Shoes]

We had $320,000 left in cap space. Does that cap hit put us over the cap or does the $730,000 not kick in until the season starts?

Not sure, I know we were close but I don't know if DHB's money was already included.

[zulater]

I don't think this guy makes the team.

[Steelerette]

He might not. It's a very cut-friendly deal he got so in camp he's going to have to both stand out and prove that he isn't going to drop half of what comes his way.

Unless the idea is to use him as a returner. The positive marks for DHB is that he's got a very positive attitude, is still pretty fast, and is happy to play special teams. So I guess I'll be keeping an eye on that.

But I would think if we draft a WR plus we see something positive out of someone like Moye or Collins... then it gets pretty hard for him to make the team.

[salamander]

Who knows, maybe he'll turn out to be a pleasant surprise.

[Shoes]

Who knows, maybe he'll turn out to be a pleasant surprise.

Exactly, and he can jump and catch better than Wallace without a 60 mil price tag.

[Psycho Ward 86]

i dont see why he would be used as a returner. he hasnt returned a single kick or punt in an NFL game in his entire career. im sure poor hands has something to do with that. from all that i can read from the articles on him, his special teams work is mostly as a gunner, where we already have some good ones like antwon blake. so he's really going to have to shine as a receiver to make it

[steelreserve]

We had $320,000 left in cap space. Does that cap hit put us over the cap or does the $730,000 not kick in until the season starts?

The way it works is: The league only counts the top 51 salaries on the roster, and the 51st guy on the roster is making the league minimum, which is $420,000. So the $730,000 we're paying Heyward-Bey replaces that guy's salary, for a difference of $310,000, leaving us $10,000 under the cap.

On top of that, this counts as a qualifying contract, which is defined as a 1-year deal at the veteran minimum salary (in DHB's case, $730,000 for a sixth-year veteran) and $65,000 or less in bonus money. A veteran player on a qualifying contract gets paid the minimum salary for his experience level (in this case $730,000), but only counts against the cap at the rate of a third-year player, which would be $570,000. So we actually get an additional $160,000 in cap space from that, leaving us $170,000 under the cap and meaning the real cost of adding Heyward-Bey was only $150,000.

Not a bad deal if you ask me. Sure, it's a blind roll of the dice, but for that amount of money it's rare you're going to get someone who's a surefire contributor.


edit: One further note about qualifying contracts is that they cannot be altered or extended at all; it's a one-year deal and that's it. So if it turns out we like the player and want to keep him for more than one year, we either wait until the season is over and try to sign him as a UFA, or we give him an extension but then take the full cap hit for whatever the bigger contract is.

[Shoes]

The way it works is: The league only counts the top 51 salaries on the roster, and the 51st guy on the roster is making the league minimum, which is $420,000. So the $730,000 we're paying Heyward-Bey replaces that guy's salary, for a difference of $310,000, leaving us $10,000 under the cap.

On top of that, this counts as a qualifying contract, which is defined as a 1-year deal at the veteran minimum salary (in DHB's case, $730,000 for a sixth-year veteran) and $65,000 or less in bonus money. A veteran player on a qualifying contract gets paid the minimum salary for his experience level (in this case $730,000), but only counts against the cap at the rate of a third-year player, which would be $570,000. So we actually get an additional $160,000 in cap space from that, leaving us $170,000 under the cap and meaning the real cost of adding Heyward-Bey was only $150,000.

Not a bad deal if you ask me. Sure, it's a blind roll of the dice, but for that amount of money it's rare you're going to get someone who's a surefire contributor.


edit: One further note about qualifying contracts is that they cannot be altered or extended at all; it's a one-year deal and that's it. So if it turns out we like the player and want to keep him for more than one year, we either wait until the season is over and try to sign him as a UFA, or we give him an extension but then take the full cap hit for whatever the bigger contract is.

Thanks for the clarification!