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Thread: Democrat's Bold Defense of ObamaCare Job-Killer: Nobody Really Wants a Job Promotion

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    Re: Democrat's Bold Defense of ObamaCare Job-Killer: Nobody Really Wants a Job Promot

    So simple a dawg can understand.





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    Re: Democrat's Bold Defense of ObamaCare Job-Killer: Nobody Really Wants a Job Promot

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach1 View Post
    So simple a dawg can understand.



    Mike Rowe are you serious? The old skills gap argument huh? Ya im sure that's it mike, the work force in the 90's was almost at full employment but now the workers are not skilled enough to fill the abundance of high skilled high paying jobs out there, give me a break. Rowe is not an economist nor can he back his argument of the skills gap up with any data. For example if what he says is true, that there are plenty of jobs out there that people just aren't skilled to do you would see a wage increase in that industry or investments by companies in training programs but we don't see that we see workers being cut back and wage stagnation despite rises in productivity.

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    Re: Democrat's Bold Defense of ObamaCare Job-Killer: Nobody Really Wants a Job Promot

    freelancer.com

    Need some coding done? Check out the prices from around the world. We get our documents proof read from someone in the UK. The Internet is removing barriers and lowering costs.

    We had a new application quoted for a new website we were working on. Locally in Toronto, prices ranged from 45,000 to 160,000. On freelancer.com, we got 10 bids for under $5,000. Not just India either.

    Arbitrage.

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    Re: Democrat's Bold Defense of ObamaCare Job-Killer: Nobody Really Wants a Job Promot

    Look what dawg did. He gave Count a virus with his silliness.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
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    Re: Democrat's Bold Defense of ObamaCare Job-Killer: Nobody Really Wants a Job Promot

    Quote Originally Posted by smokin3000gt View Post
    Look what dawg did. He gave Count a virus with his silliness.

    Sent from my Samsung thingermajig using Tapatalk 2.
    Unfortunately, our world has gotten very small and the technical revolution has caught North America napping.

    Also, we have no one to blame but ourselves. The collective consumer has spoken and all they want is cheaper and cheaper prices, regardless what the ramifications are. Why employ skilled workers here, and pay health care insurance, union wages, etc. when you can get everything done cheaper abroad? You can't expect corporations to have a social conscience when the stated goal is to provide goods and services at a profit.

    If consumers are willing to buy from China, well hell, why can't the corporations buy their labor and capital from China?

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    Re: Democrat's Bold Defense of ObamaCare Job-Killer: Nobody Really Wants a Job Promot

    Quote Originally Posted by steeldawg View Post
    An equal opportunity employer just means they are not going to discriminate based race sex or gender it does not mean that everyone's chance at working there is equal.
    In your rush to disagree with me, you probably didn't realize that you basically repeated exactly what I said.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wallace108 View Post
    What that means is that everyone has an opportunity to be hired. No one can be discriminated against. But that does not mean that everyone who applies has an equal chance of getting the job.
    I like how you ignored every point I made in my post and chose a meaningless battle over the one thing you thought was an easy target. Dawg, I'm beginning to think you argue just to argue.

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    Re: Democrat's Bold Defense of ObamaCare Job-Killer: Nobody Really Wants a Job Promot

    Quote Originally Posted by steeldawg View Post
    Mike Rowe are you serious? The old skills gap argument huh? Ya im sure that's it mike, the work force in the 90's was almost at full employment but now the workers are not skilled enough to fill the abundance of high skilled high paying jobs out there, give me a break. Rowe is not an economist nor can he back his argument of the skills gap up with any data. For example if what he says is true, that there are plenty of jobs out there that people just aren't skilled to do you would see a wage increase in that industry or investments by companies in training programs but we don't see that we see workers being cut back and wage stagnation despite rises in productivity.
    Come on, Dawg. Stop relying on manipulated statistics and Democrat talking points. Take a look at what's actually going on around you. I'm not going to throw meaningless statistics at you ... here's a recent story from my area that supports the fact that there's a skills gap.

    By Tom McParland

    YOUNGSTOWN

    The developing Utica Shale play has brought plenty of commercial interest to the Mahoning Valley, as construction and manufacturing companies look to provide the infrastructure necessary to capture and transport natural gas.

    But the rising demand for skilled workers in the Valley has shown that there aren’t enough trained laborers available to meet the need.

    The skills gap, as it’s called, is the result of an aging workforce and a shift in educational emphasis, and local unions, schools and training centers are trying to close it as quickly as possible.

    One answer to the problem comes in the form of apprenticeships offered at local unions such as Plumbers and Pipefitters Local 396 on Bev Road in Boardman.

    Local 396 offers a five-year program that combines classroom instruction with on-the-job training. Apprentices attend classes two nights a week, while also working in the field with a pool of 52 contractors that employ their services.

    Marty Loney, training director for Local 396, said he has seen a special need for trained welders to work on well pads, pipelines, tanks and compressors.

    “The need for welders is just unbelievable,” he said, estimating that there is a shortage of between 2,000 and 3,000 welders in the Valley.

    READ MORE: http://www.vindy.com/news/2014/feb/0...or-s/?fracking

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    Re: Democrat's Bold Defense of ObamaCare Job-Killer: Nobody Really Wants a Job Promot

    Quote Originally Posted by Wallace108 View Post
    Come on, Dawg. Stop relying on manipulated statistics and Democrat talking points. Take a look at what's actually going on around you. I'm not going to throw meaningless statistics at you ... here's a recent story from my area that supports the fact that there's a skills gap.

    By Tom McParland

    YOUNGSTOWN

    The developing Utica Shale play has brought plenty of commercial interest to the Mahoning Valley, as construction and manufacturing companies look to provide the infrastructure necessary to capture and transport natural gas.

    But the rising demand for skilled workers in the Valley has shown that there aren’t enough trained laborers available to meet the need.

    The skills gap, as it’s called, is the result of an aging workforce and a shift in educational emphasis, and local unions, schools and training centers are trying to close it as quickly as possible.

    One answer to the problem comes in the form of apprenticeships offered at local unions such as Plumbers and Pipefitters Local 396 on Bev Road in Boardman.

    Local 396 offers a five-year program that combines classroom instruction with on-the-job training. Apprentices attend classes two nights a week, while also working in the field with a pool of 52 contractors that employ their services.

    Marty Loney, training director for Local 396, said he has seen a special need for trained welders to work on well pads, pipelines, tanks and compressors.

    “The need for welders is just unbelievable,” he said, estimating that there is a shortage of between 2,000 and 3,000 welders in the Valley.

    READ MORE: http://www.vindy.com/news/2014/feb/0...or-s/?fracking
    http://www.labornotes.org/2014/01/sk...onvenient-myth

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    Re: Democrat's Bold Defense of ObamaCare Job-Killer: Nobody Really Wants a Job Promot

    More left wing propaganda.

    About

    Labor Notes is a media and organizing project that has been the voice of union activists

    Labor Notes is also a network of rank-and-file members, local union leaders, and labor activists

    - See more at: http://www.labornotes.org/about#sthash.lOjeMrFo.dpuf


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    Re: Democrat's Bold Defense of ObamaCare Job-Killer: Nobody Really Wants a Job Promot

    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    Tomlin is that good.



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    Re: Democrat's Bold Defense of ObamaCare Job-Killer: Nobody Really Wants a Job Promot

    As Mach pointed out, Labornotes.org isn't exactly the first place I'd go to for an objective source to help prove my point. With that said, I don't completely disagree with everything that was said in the article. But all the writer did was look for and include evidence that fit with his beliefs and supported his agenda. The result is nothing more than propaganda. It's no different than trying to get the truth from someone who strongly supports the concept of global warming or someone who strongly opposes the concept. Both will tend to trumpet any evidence that supports their view while ignoring any evidence that contradicts it. I suppose most of us tend to do that a bit too much.

    As for the issue of a skills gap, both sides are probably overstating their case. For a much more objective look at the issue, read this: http://www.pbs.org/wnet/need-to-know...ls-jobs/16219/

    Here's a few quotes from the article:

    "Though the problem of the skills gap is not to be flouted, it is also very much overstated."
    --Dr. Anthony P. Carnevale, director of the Georgetown University Center on Education and the Workforce.

    "Like many overused generalizations, the “skills gap” depends on how you define it, where you look for it, what industry you are discussing and what occupation you are talking about. In the American south, where advanced manufacturing is a relatively recent growth industry, the skills gap is very real and offering higher wages will not suddenly develop hundreds of machinists and welders. However, in other sections of the US, higher wages could very possibly close a portion of the manufacturing skills gap by drawing in more qualified candidates, formerly unwilling to offer their high skills for relatively low wages."
    --Fred Dedrick, executive director of the National Fund for Workforce Solutions

    "Those who say there is a skills gap are not exaggerating the problem but they can also be off target if they choose to make overly broad statements about it."
    --Fred Dedrick


    -------------------------------------

    This is one of those cases where the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. But one fact remains ... there are jobs out there, but you have to be willing to bust your ass and not expect things to be handed to you.

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    Re: Democrat's Bold Defense of ObamaCare Job-Killer: Nobody Really Wants a Job Promot

    Quote Originally Posted by Wallace108 View Post
    As Mach pointed out, Labornotes.org isn't exactly the first place I'd go to for an objective source to help prove my point. With that said, I don't completely disagree with everything that was said in the article. But all the writer did was look for and include evidence that fit with his beliefs and supported his agenda. The result is nothing more than propaganda. It's no different than trying to get the truth from someone who strongly supports the concept of global warming or someone who strongly opposes the concept. Both will tend to trumpet any evidence that supports their view while ignoring any evidence that contradicts it. I suppose most of us tend to do that a bit too much.

    As for the issue of a skills gap, both sides are probably overstating their case. For a much more objective look at the issue, read this: http://www.pbs.org/wnet/need-to-know...ls-jobs/16219/

    Here's a few quotes from the article:

    "Though the problem of the skills gap is not to be flouted, it is also very much overstated."
    --Dr. Anthony P. Carnevale, director of the Georgetown University Center on Education and the Workforce.

    "Like many overused generalizations, the “skills gap” depends on how you define it, where you look for it, what industry you are discussing and what occupation you are talking about. In the American south, where advanced manufacturing is a relatively recent growth industry, the skills gap is very real and offering higher wages will not suddenly develop hundreds of machinists and welders. However, in other sections of the US, higher wages could very possibly close a portion of the manufacturing skills gap by drawing in more qualified candidates, formerly unwilling to offer their high skills for relatively low wages."
    --Fred Dedrick, executive director of the National Fund for Workforce Solutions

    "Those who say there is a skills gap are not exaggerating the problem but they can also be off target if they choose to make overly broad statements about it."
    --Fred Dedrick


    -------------------------------------

    This is one of those cases where the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. But one fact remains ... there are jobs out there, but you have to be willing to bust your ass and not expect things to be handed to you.
    It doesn't matter the site the economic points in it are what important, There is no economic data to support a skills gap. The multi billion dollar company caterpillar is a perfect example. You mean to tell me they cant train someone to fill a position? Just look at the outsourcing of are manufacturing sector, you think we sent those jobs to third world countries for the skilled labor? The welder demand is created by billion dollar corporations who are trying to get away from unionized workers and secure low wage workers. How do you do that? Well for a skilled position you first have to drastically increase the number of welders, so you get together with your other business brains and put out job postings that will never be filled. Because lets be honest if these large companies needed to fill a position they could easily afford to train someone. So what happens, all these people see these job postings and they head to trade school, and trade schools are advertising the new exciting career path. Now you have tripled the size for welders and can offer a pay that's much lower because someone is likely to take it. Also like I said the employment during the 90's was almost full so we had enough welders then and now with less work and higher productivity we suddenly need an abundance of welders? These factors are why economists don't lend any credibility to the skills gap.

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    Re: Democrat's Bold Defense of ObamaCare Job-Killer: Nobody Really Wants a Job Promot

    Quote Originally Posted by steeldawg View Post
    There is no economic data to support a skills gap.
    Quote Originally Posted by steeldawg View Post
    These factors are why economists don't lend any credibility to the skills gap.
    Did you even click on the link I provided for you? Try looking at some sources other than those with a clear agenda. This is not an either-or issue. It's not as simple as saying either a skills gap exists or a skills gap does not exist. Click on the link I provided in my last post, which I assume you haven't yet, and read something other than far-left propaganda.

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    Re: Democrat's Bold Defense of ObamaCare Job-Killer: Nobody Really Wants a Job Promot

    what I'm telling you is companies can train for jobs they "need" to fill its no excuse for unemployment or low wages. So the skills gap argument is ridiculous, we are one of the most skilled work forces in the world and we outsource our manufacturing jobs, once you start outsourcing skilled jobs overseas in favor of cheap labor it really sinks any argument for a skills gap.

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    Re: Democrat's Bold Defense of ObamaCare Job-Killer: Nobody Really Wants a Job Promot

    Quote Originally Posted by Wallace108 View Post
    Did you even click on the link I provided for you?
    Obviously "no" is the answer to that question.

    Are you ready to give up yet? You can never, ever, EVER win an argument with steeldawg. All you will end up doing is smashing your monitor to bits.








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    Re: Democrat's Bold Defense of ObamaCare Job-Killer: Nobody Really Wants a Job Promot

    HAIL THE ALL MIGHTY AND ALL KNOWING SUPREME BEING, STEEL DAWG!!!



    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
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    Re: Democrat's Bold Defense of ObamaCare Job-Killer: Nobody Really Wants a Job Promot

    Quote Originally Posted by X-Terminator View Post
    Obviously "no" is the answer to that question.

    Are you ready to give up yet? You can never, ever, EVER win an argument with steeldawg. All you will end up doing is smashing your monitor to bits.
    Actually I did read it and it still provides no economic case for skills gap the only example it gives is when there is new technology and the training curve needs time to catch up but that is not the argument Rowe is making he is saying employers have an abundance of jobs but can't fill them because workers lack the skill which is complete bs. There is no way our unemployment problem and wage problem has anything to do with a skills gap. Especially having to listen to it coming from a whore like Rowe who is now a mouthpiece for Walmart.

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    Re: Democrat's Bold Defense of ObamaCare Job-Killer: Nobody Really Wants a Job Promot

    Quote Originally Posted by steeldawg View Post
    Actually I did read it and it still provides no economic case for skills gap
    Perhaps you should read it again. There are a number of instances, such as the following quote from Anthony Carnevale, which don't exactly refute the existence of a skills gap in certain areas:

    "Economists are in surprising agreement that skills mismatch alone accounts for less than one-third of the total number of unemployed. Fed economists state that roughly 30 percent of the change in the unemployment rate due this last recession can be attributed to skills mismatch."

    The following link talks about a study by Aysegul Sahin and Giorgio Topa of the New York Federal Reserve Bank, Joseph Song of Columbia University and Giovanni Violante of New York University. The study found that the skills gap exists but is overstated. Here's the link: http://labor.idaho.gov/publications/...iecurSep12.pdf

    The study found that:

    Although skill shortages may not be rife throughout the economy, there are not enough qualified workers for certain occupations. These in demand occupations include information technology, engineering, laboratory chemists, high skill medical professionals and certain trades including CNC machinists, welders, plumbers, electricians, diesel mechanics and automotive technicians.

    The findings from that study are in line with what was said in the first link I posted. The information from both of those objective sources doesn't prove either side right. In fact, they suggest, like I said, that the truth lies somewhere in the middle. I know it sucks being only half right instead of 100 percent right, but it's better than being 100 percent wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by X-Terminator View Post
    Are you ready to give up yet?
    Yes.

    I'm out of beer.

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    Re: Democrat's Bold Defense of ObamaCare Job-Killer: Nobody Really Wants a Job Promot

    I don't need to read any link about a skills gap. I'm a Cabinetmaker by trade. I can tell you for a fact that there is a skills gap. There is literally no new (younger) employees to hire that have even a rudimentary understanding of the trade. This country is fucked without skilled people to do "work".

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    Re: Democrat's Bold Defense of ObamaCare Job-Killer: Nobody Really Wants a Job Promot

    Quote Originally Posted by Wallace108 View Post
    Yes.

    I'm out of beer.
    Good a time as any. Might want to make another run, though, so that you can numb the pain.








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    Re: Democrat's Bold Defense of ObamaCare Job-Killer: Nobody Really Wants a Job Promot

    Quote Originally Posted by silver & black View Post
    I don't need to read any link about a skills gap. I'm a Cabinetmaker by trade. I can tell you for a fact that there is a skills gap. There is literally no new (younger) employees to hire that have even a rudimentary understanding of the trade. This country is fucked without skilled people to do "work".
    Actually cabinet work has been on a steady decline nation wide with the increase in automated production and all the made easy "do it yourself" stuff. Not to mention the median salary for a skilled cabinet maker is $33,000 a year which means a guy starting out probably makes less than that. There just isn't a huge demand for cabinet makers because most of the stuff purchased and sold is prefabricated.

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    Re: Democrat's Bold Defense of ObamaCare Job-Killer: Nobody Really Wants a Job Promot

    Quote Originally Posted by Wallace108 View Post
    Perhaps you should read it again. There are a number of instances, such as the following quote from Anthony Carnevale, which don't exactly refute the existence of a skills gap in certain areas:

    "Economists are in surprising agreement that skills mismatch alone accounts for less than one-third of the total number of unemployed. Fed economists state that roughly 30 percent of the change in the unemployment rate due this last recession can be attributed to skills mismatch."

    The following link talks about a study by Aysegul Sahin and Giorgio Topa of the New York Federal Reserve Bank, Joseph Song of Columbia University and Giovanni Violante of New York University. The study found that the skills gap exists but is overstated. Here's the link: http://labor.idaho.gov/publications/...iecurSep12.pdf

    The study found that:

    Although skill shortages may not be rife throughout the economy, there are not enough qualified workers for certain occupations. These in demand occupations include information technology, engineering, laboratory chemists, high skill medical professionals and certain trades including CNC machinists, welders, plumbers, electricians, diesel mechanics and automotive technicians.

    The findings from that study are in line with what was said in the first link I posted. The information from both of those objective sources doesn't prove either side right. In fact, they suggest, like I said, that the truth lies somewhere in the middle. I know it sucks being only half right instead of 100 percent right, but it's better than being 100 percent wrong.


    Yes.

    I'm out of beer.
    Yes a skills mismatch which is different than the skills gap, A skills mismatch can be caused by several factors, changes in pay, over qualification, underemployment, under qualification, unemployment, migration flows, and lots of other economic factors that would occur during a recession. Eventually a mismatch dissolves because we climb out of a recession. The skills gap argument is basically people are unemployed because they lack skills, which is non sense because again if a business needs to fill a position to maximize production they train someone and they do it. Corporations not only want us to subsidize their workers wages through government assistance now they want us to pay for training their people too.

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    Re: Democrat's Bold Defense of ObamaCare Job-Killer: Nobody Really Wants a Job Promot

    Quote Originally Posted by steeldawg View Post
    Yes a skills mismatch which is different than the skills gap, A skills mismatch can be caused by several factors, changes in pay, over qualification, underemployment, under qualification, unemployment, migration flows, and lots of other economic factors that would occur during a recession. Eventually a mismatch dissolves because we climb out of a recession.
    Now you're just playing word games in an effort to justify your argument. I agree with you that a distinction can be made between "skills gap" and "skills mismatch." But in the article I posted, the phrases "skills gap" and "skills mismatch" were used interchangeably. There was absolutely no distinction made between the two phrases. So while a distinction can be made, most articles I've read use the two phrases interchangeably. As an example, here's a snippet from the left-leaning Huffington Post:

    One popular explanation for the stubbornly high unemployment rate is that businesses want to hire -- but they simply can't find workers with the right skills to take the jobs.

    On Sunday, the Washington Post reported that there were as many as 600,000 jobs unfilled in the manufacturing industry, and that factory owners are having an increasingly difficult time filling spots, despite millions of jobs lost in the past decade.

    But some labor and manufacturing experts say the real story is far more complex than a "skills mismatch." And some say that the basic premise -- 600,000 unfilled jobs -- paints a deeply misleading picture.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1292273.html
    As you can see in that Huffington article, the phrase "skills mismatch" is used in the exact same way as we've used the phrase "skills gap." Even if technically incorrect, the two phrases are generally used to mean the same thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by steeldawg View Post
    The skills gap argument is basically people are unemployed because they lack skills, which is non sense because again if a business needs to fill a position to maximize production they train someone and they do it.
    It's that simple, huh? You're painting with a broad brush. While it's true that some skills can be learned on the job, others cannot. For most skilled trades, they're on site to do a job, not train workers. If you're in construction, you don't have time to train a new worker who might not even know how to read a ruler. If you're going to hire someone for an IT job, are you going to hire someone who has no clue what to do after they turn on the computer? My uncle is a mechanic and owns his own shop ... there's no way in hell he'd hire someone who isn't already skilled at working on vehicles. There's a reason why there are trade schools. For many trades, you can't just hire people off the street and train them yourself ... no more than a hospital can hire someone off the street and train them to be a doctor or nurse.

    Dawg, I tried to create some common ground by establishing that there's some truth and some falsehoods on both sides of the argument. But you don't want a discussion ... you want to be right. And you're going to trumpet anything that supports your argument and ignore (or twist) anything that contradicts it. What results from that is not a discussion, but a pissing match.

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    Re: Democrat's Bold Defense of ObamaCare Job-Killer: Nobody Really Wants a Job Promot

    Quote Originally Posted by Wallace108 View Post


    It's that simple, huh? You're painting with a broad brush. While it's true that some skills can be learned on the job, others cannot. For most skilled trades, they're on site to do a job, not train workers. If you're in construction, you don't have time to train a new worker who might not even know how to read a ruler. If you're going to hire someone for an IT job, are you going to hire someone who has no clue what to do after they turn on the computer? My uncle is a mechanic and owns his own shop ... there's no way in hell he'd hire someone who isn't already skilled at working on vehicles. There's a reason why there are trade schools. For many trades, you can't just hire people off the street and train them yourself ... no more than a hospital can hire someone off the street and train them to be a doctor or nurse.
    Yep.

    As a business I'm not going to hire and pay someone who is completely clueless to the job at hand. It's not my job to educate you and I'm certainly not going to pay for it on my time.

    Now if you have some experience or experience in a related field thats a different story. If you half way know what your doing and can be useful on the job, It's not hard getting people up to speed.


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  25. #85
    Old School Misfit Array title="silver & black has a reputation beyond repute"> silver & black's Avatar

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    Re: Democrat's Bold Defense of ObamaCare Job-Killer: Nobody Really Wants a Job Promot

    Quote Originally Posted by steeldawg View Post
    Actually cabinet work has been on a steady decline nation wide with the increase in automated production and all the made easy "do it yourself" stuff. Not to mention the median salary for a skilled cabinet maker is $33,000 a year which means a guy starting out probably makes less than that. There just isn't a huge demand for cabinet makers because most of the stuff purchased and sold is prefabricated.
    Yes.... prefabricated junk. As with most things, you get what you pay for. But, if you want CNC cut particle board garbage, by all means, buy it! If you want quality, heirloom caliber stuff, you need me!

    I've worked in the trade show industry for the last 25 years. There is no such thing as prefabricated stuff. It's all 100% custom built stuff.

  26. #86
    Quest For Seven Array title="Mach1 has a reputation beyond repute"> Mach1's Avatar

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    Re: Democrat's Bold Defense of ObamaCare Job-Killer: Nobody Really Wants a Job Promot

    Quote Originally Posted by silver & black View Post
    Yes.... prefabricated junk. As with most things, you get what you pay for. But, if you want CNC cut particle board garbage, by all means, buy it! If you want quality, heirloom caliber stuff, you need me!

    I've worked in the trade show industry for the last 25 years. There is no such thing as prefabricated stuff. It's all 100% custom built stuff.
    I was the Finisher at a place like that. All hand made custom jobs. The place I worked at did mostly "distressed" stuff, so I got to take a high end piece of furniture/cabinets and beat the hell out of it. We actually drug a big ass entertainment center out to the sticks one time and proceeded to shoot it with a shotgun. Hey it's what the customer wanted.

    I also learned not to like interior designers.


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  27. #87
    Senior Member Array title="steeldawg is a jewel in the rough">

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    Re: Democrat's Bold Defense of ObamaCare Job-Killer: Nobody Really Wants a Job Promot

    Quote Originally Posted by silver & black View Post
    Yes.... prefabricated junk. As with most things, you get what you pay for. But, if you want CNC cut particle board garbage, by all means, buy it! If you want quality, heirloom caliber stuff, you need me!

    I've worked in the trade show industry for the last 25 years. There is no such thing as prefabricated stuff. It's all 100% custom built stuff.
    Lol I don't doubt your very at what you do, and Im sure the quality of the product is head and shoulders above the prefab stuff. Most of the cabinets today are prefab because well they are cheaper and faster for companies to churn out. For example I lived in cape coral florida for awhile and during the housing boom and I used to do construction "clean ups" and every house I went into had the same crappy white cabinets, they all had the same window fixtures, light fixtures, carpeting, doors, etc etc.

  28. #88
    Senior Member Array title="smokin3000gt has a reputation beyond repute"> smokin3000gt's Avatar

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    Re: Democrat's Bold Defense of ObamaCare Job-Killer: Nobody Really Wants a Job Promot

    Depends on the homes. Spec homes are cookie cutter, cheap, and built to flip. Custom homes get nice cabs, counters, appliances, ect. During the boom down here almost everything was spec. Especially cape coral.

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    Tomlin is that good.



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  29. #89
    Quest For Seven Array title="Mach1 has a reputation beyond repute"> Mach1's Avatar

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    Re: Democrat's Bold Defense of ObamaCare Job-Killer: Nobody Really Wants a Job Promot

    Quote Originally Posted by smokin3000gt View Post
    Depends on the homes. Spec homes are cookie cutter, cheap, and built to flip. Custom homes get nice cabs, counters, appliances, ect. During the boom down here almost everything was spec. Especially cape coral.

    Sent from my Samsung thingermajig using Tapatalk 2.
    Yep, where I'm at subdivisions pop up and the houses are all cookie cutter, just different colors on the outside.


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  30. #90
    Geek God Array title="X-Terminator has a reputation beyond repute"> X-Terminator's Avatar

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    Re: Democrat's Bold Defense of ObamaCare Job-Killer: Nobody Really Wants a Job Promot

    Pre-fab, cookie-cutter houses are just trash in general. I used to work in the estate sale business as a side job and was in plenty of them. If you have the money to buy/build your own home, why on God's green Earth would you invest in one of those? Take the money and build you something nice and something built to last.








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