Im surprised Cooks and Beckham are hyped above Lee. What am I missing?
Im surprised Cooks and Beckham are hyped above Lee. What am I missing?
"It comes with the Territory" - Floyd 'Money' Mayweather
we have to remember these are the draft nicks talking and the media picking up on it ... Teams are not talking and when they are you have to take what they say with a grain of salt this time of year so we do not know what they are thinking for sure ....Originally Posted by Steeltreal
If Lee came out last years draft he would possibly be taken before Tavon Austin. I wouldnt be surprised if he goes before Evans and its pick #15.
"It comes with the Territory" - Floyd 'Money' Mayweather
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The main concern is that after an incredible sophomore season, he trailed off the last two seasons with injuries and a tendency to be less than reliable in his route running. Scouts seem to be concerned with his "improvising". Yes...everyone wants a WR who knows when to work back to the QB if he is forced out of the pocket...but if its a timed route and you improvise, you create situations in which your QB is going to be intercepted.
Still an incredible talent who I believe creates separation as well as anyone in this years draft.
"I believe the game is designed to reward the ones who hit the hardest. If you can't take it, you shouldn't play"
-- Jack Lambert --
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He wont be drafted before Evans. Probably be a toss up between him and Beckham for the 4th receiver taken. There is a chance that Lee falls out of the first round, mainly due to the depth at the WR position this year.
"I believe the game is designed to reward the ones who hit the hardest. If you can't take it, you shouldn't play"
-- Jack Lambert --
on a random note, so im probably like a lot of you in that out of the likely available players at #15 i would love to have Mike Evans or Darqueze Dennard. People seem to be so damn enamored by Dennard, almost blindly if you ask me. Do people not realize that he is going to significantly neutered in our defense unless we all of a sudden decide to play a ton of man-coverage? Thats all dennard did throughout college. Theres nothing wrong with that in his regard because he was insane at it, but want nothing to do with him at #15 unless we plan on playing a ton of man-coverage, which i feel like we should anyways.
So why, I ask, do people love Dennard as our pick so much? I am only situationally enamored with Dennard being our pick.
He is the most pro ready corner in the draft and corner is a major need. Doesn't hurt that he was a major contributor on a dominant Michigan State defense
I disagree , while in some ways he is most pro ready he also has more issues to correct and a larger learning curve for our scheme ...
I would rather have Fuller at 18-20 than Dennard at 15
I personally think Dennard, Gilbert and Fuller will all have great NFL careers IF they land at right destination.
Dennard will excel in a man coverage scheme
Gilbert and Fuller will be better in a zone scheme playing off.
I am not saying that cant play in each system, just that they will be adjust quicker and contribute earlier in the right scheme.
If CB is at the top of your draft list and Dennard, Gilbert and Fuller are there, personally I take Kyle Fuller ( I think he is more NFL zone coverage ready)
"NUMBER 7 FOR OUR BELOVED ONE IN HEAVEN"
yeah but you do realize we play mostly all zone coverage right? Dennard literally never played that at all. There is hardly any film to dictate how he will do if he is forced to play in a fashion that is completely foreign to him.
Dennard is literally off my board unless we plan to play a ton of man coverage
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Interesting to see the Pro Day's with significant attendances by Steeler staff. Scroll down to the bottom of the page. Wonder what Rooney was doing at Vanderbilt by himself?
http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com...-meetings-list
My first guess would be Matthews, which would make a lot of sense if we go CB in the first round.
AML
has to be Jordan Mathews
We do have an excellent coach in Carnell Lake that can coach him up. Besides, didn't the Steelers use more of a press man coverage in the 2011 game against New England? He is physical, he is a playmaker, and he is great in coverage. He is worth a shot
what you have to do when watching his tape is dissect WHY he was great in coverage and then put NFL rules into place when watching it ...
he was such a success by being so physical , being so grab happy ... those things will have to vanish from his game by 60% or he is a walking talking yellow flag nearly every play in the NFL ...
sure it is correctable , but in correcting it you just lost the biggest factor in his success at which point you do not have the same player and the question you have to ask is if he reduces that physicality ( and grab happiness ) can and will he be as effective against what is now even better talent against him ...
when doing that I walk away shaking my head and saying no you wont have the same player or one nearly as effective , then I look at our system and question if we change our MO to suit the needs of a rookie and come away doubting that as well ....
when I have to many question I shy away on players Kelvin Benjamin is a prime example on the opposite side of the ball , sure I see the upside but I also can see other players at lesser cost and just as much upside with less concerns and I steer my ship in that direction and am far more comfortable in doing so ....
at 15 I have to come away with a much stronger feeling than " worth a shot " ...worth a shot for me is 5th round or later 4th and sooner I want a much greater feeling to over come me
When everything is said and done, when the debates are over...this^^ is what carries the most truth!!
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Looking more and more like Evans would be a long shot at 15.
Enthroned Into The Good Old Boys Club - 2024
that was A game. That is not an indication of how we usually play. i just have a hard time believing were going to switch from mostly zone coverage to man coverage all because of one player.
beat writers picks to 14 ... but shows us the board that is left and lots of people would be excited to see just whom we could take ..
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2014/onthebeat#pick=14
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As someone who has Dennard as the #1 CB on his board, I can tell you why I like him.
As you know...there are 5 different types of coverages.
Cover 0: Which is straight-up man coverage... without the free safety cheating over the top.
Cover 1: Man coverage by the cornerbacks AND the strong safety...with the free safety cheating over the top.
Cover 2: Or "Tampa 2" ...where the safeties divide the field into zone coverage while the cornerbacks play the flats and curl zones
Cover 3: Where the cornerbacks and free safeties divide the field into thirds and play zone coverage.
Cover 4: Where the cornerbacks and both safeties divide the field into quarters and play zone coverage
Mainly...at least for me...I think that although Dennard played man coverage, his skill set and fundamentals show me that he can easily play zone. I see no problems with his diagnostic skills and he seems to have incredible field awareness.
Keep in mind...when we drop into cover 2...Dennard will be responsible for the curl zone and the flat zone on his side of the field. Those diagnostic skills are invaluable in those situations. When we drop into cover three, if he is not the CB who is designated to cover the outfield with the two safeties, then he will be responsible for those same two zones on his side. (The hook zones in both cases mainly being covered by a LBer).
On a fundamental level, Dennard shows a ... good backpedal...an ability to sink his hips, which allow him to break and turn quickly, and the instincts to react quickly. A cornerback is going to either need "elite" speed or instincts to break on the ball. Dennard may not have top end speed... but what I noticed at the combine...and on tape...is that he excels at reading and reacting to the wide receiver and the quarterback. He has the ability to "see" and diagnose the route and respond without delay. That ability to go from "seeing" it... to processing it... to reacting to it.. is why I really like him as a CB.
"I believe the game is designed to reward the ones who hit the hardest. If you can't take it, you shouldn't play"
-- Jack Lambert --
that makes me feel a little better, but still. how much film do we have to go off of this feeling that he will thrive in zone coverage? not a ton from what ive seen. this is just one example but anyone else remember how ridiculous Nnamdhi Asomugha used to be with the Raiders when he was an All-pro and would only get like a dozen passes thrown his way every year? Then he went to the eagles and played mostly zone instead of bump and run and he was absolutely horrible. My concern is not dennard's ability so much as it is how we would utilize him. Although it seems like Lebeau has been more willing to be adaptive and change up the defense in recent years
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You are making a great point. The difference is that Nnamdhi Asomugha was a speedster WITHOUT good instincts. Pretty sure he ran like a 4.4 forty. When put into a situation where he couldn't rely on his athleticism...he didn't have the field awareness or the instincts to start his breaks in time.
"I believe the game is designed to reward the ones who hit the hardest. If you can't take it, you shouldn't play"
-- Jack Lambert --
I haven't been as big a Dennard fan as you have Perry, but I still have him as the top CB in the draft, with Fuller close behind. I put Gilbert behind both, for reasons I have already gone over. I really do think Dennard can adapt to playing in what ever defense he needs to. Only time will tell for sure.
AML
do you guys still think dennard is the most pro-ready cornerback if he were to play mostly zone coverage right away?
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I'm with you...Ive seen Gilbert get turned around a few times.
"I believe the game is designed to reward the ones who hit the hardest. If you can't take it, you shouldn't play"
-- Jack Lambert --
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That is one of those questions that I almost don't want to answer because I think it may mislead people who don't understand the difference between "NFL ready" and Best player"
If this makes sense...Fuller is the most NFL ready of the CB's for OUR team. In two years, Dennard will be the shutdown corner that everyone will wish they had drafted. Since our Defensive players usually have to get acclimated to our complex defense anyway...I would go Dennard.
WITH THAT BEING SAID....I would be excited to have Fuller on the team...he is a very good player and an upgrade on Taylor.
"I believe the game is designed to reward the ones who hit the hardest. If you can't take it, you shouldn't play"
-- Jack Lambert --
For reasons LLT stated above, at worst the man nicknamed "the no fly zone" will have a small learning curve which he should be able to pick up on rather quickly because of his instincts. Add in a great coach in Carnell Lake and he will pick it up even faster
I have to wonder if we go ahead and pick Dennard, if now is as good a time as any for our secondary to transition into man coverage. Troy isn't as young as he used to be but he's still elite talent who will go ahead and hit people. It would be an easier way to transition Mike Mitchell into our defense: the Panthers did play zone packages sometimes but they tended toward press man coverage. It would extend Ike's career. Allen was known at The Citadel for his physicality. And now Dennard would join them to learn the ropes, and get used to playing NFL ball without being so handsy but without having to change most everything else he knows.
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Wont happen while Lebeau is here. If we are going to go "man"...we would have to have a commit to a huge shift in defensive philosophy. Cant very well run Mike/Will Linebacker cross fire zone blitz ...if we're not playing zone.
"I believe the game is designed to reward the ones who hit the hardest. If you can't take it, you shouldn't play"
-- Jack Lambert --
lebeau has shown a bit more of a propensity for using the DE's as true pass rushers than in past years. Maybe a sign of shift in philosophy. Who knows. I agree with Steelerette. Man coverage is how you counter the growing use of spread offenses. Hard to argue that.
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Not saying that going to man would be bad....Im saying it wont happen under LeBeau. And if we did...it would take at least 2 seasons to make the changes.
"I believe the game is designed to reward the ones who hit the hardest. If you can't take it, you shouldn't play"
-- Jack Lambert --
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