Steelers, Big Ben will stick together

[stillers4me]

On his way to the shower Sunday after the Steelers' 23-10 win against the Buffalo Bills, Ben Roethlisberger made it a point to find team owner Dan Rooney. On his way back from the shower, Roethlisberger sought out team president Art Rooney II. His message to both was the same.

"I'm so sorry," Roethlisberger told the Rooneys. "This stuff didn't come from me or my people. There's absolutely no truth to it. It's ridiculous. It's one of the most BS stories that I've ever heard."...........


Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/2...#ixzz2kMXGfEqI

There's a reason I posted this article, even though it's rather repetitive of the response to the report we've heard over and over for the last 24 hours:

It's not every year that an Andrew Luck comes out of the NFL draft to replace a Peyton Manning. That's more like once-a-generation thing. Franchise quarterbacks are that difficult to find.

The Steelers know it.

Are you ready for the list of quarterbacks the Steelers used after Bradshaw retired after the 1983 season and Roethlisberger came along in 2004?

Mark Malone. David Woodley. Scott Campbell. Bubby Brister. Steve Bono. Reggie Collier. Todd Blackledge. Rick Strom. Neil O'Donnell. Mike Tomczak. Jim Miller. Kordell Stewart. Mike Quinn. Pete Gonzalez. Kent Graham. Tommy Maddox. Charlie Batch.

[fansince'76]

It's not every year that an Andrew Luck comes out of the NFL draft to replace a Peyton Manning. That's more like once-a-generation thing. Franchise quarterbacks are that difficult to find.

And the fact of the matter remains that Luck hasn't really done anything yet. For as much hype as this kid has gotten, you'd think he was tearing up the league like Marino did in his second season. He isn't.

[X-Terminator]

And the fact of the matter remains that Luck hasn't really done anything yet. For as much hype as this kid has gotten, you'd think he was tearing up the league like Marino did in his second season. He isn't.

He sure proved that yesterday, with the way he was completely shut down by the Rams, of all teams. I like Luck, seems like a good guy...but once again the media is making me sour on him because he hasn't done a thing to get the hype he does.

[SteelerFanInStl]

He sure proved that yesterday, with the way he was completely shut down by the Rams, of all teams.

The Rams have a good defense. They're tied for third in the league with 32 sacks. They put a lot of pressure on the QB and force a lot of turnovers (11 Int, 13 FF).

[ALLD]

Why would anybody bad mouth somebody named Bubby?

[Dwinsgames]

And the fact of the matter remains that Luck hasn't really done anything yet. For as much hype as this kid has gotten, you'd think he was tearing up the league like Marino did in his second season. He isn't.

he hasnt done anything ?

lets see took them to the playoffs as a rookie after the team was 2-14 the season before .....

currently he has 14 TDs and 6 ints and 3 fumbles while Ben has 13 Tds 10 ints and 7 fumbles

they sit at 6-3 right now while we sit with our " franchise QB " at 3-6 ... but hey if living with past results brings you future and present joy who am I to condemn you for it

[Psycho Ward 86]

i find it ironic for steeler fans to say andrew luck hasnt really done anything. he hasnt been a standout statistical anomaly but he has been extraordinarily clutch thus far in his young, year and a half career. All he does is win. Gee, sounds kind of like....ben roethlisberger????

[fansince'76]

i find it ironic for steeler fans to say andrew luck hasnt really done anything. he hasnt been a standout statistical anomaly but he has been extraordinarily clutch thus far in his young, year and a half career. All he does is win. Gee, sounds kind of like....ben roethlisberger????

And when has Roethlisberger EVER gotten the recognition that Luck has? All I've ever heard are things like "game manager that's carried by his defense" and lately that he's "declining." And that's it. Luck was anointed as the second coming before he was even drafted.

[zulater]

he hasnt done anything ?

lets see took them to the playoffs as a rookie after the team was 2-14 the season before .....

currently he has 14 TDs and 6 ints and 3 fumbles while Ben has 13 Tds 10 ints and 7 fumbles

they sit at 6-3 right now while we sit with our " franchise QB " at 3-6 ... but hey if living with past results brings you future and present joy who am I to condemn you for it

I've seen you cite profootballfocus before in evaluating player performance haven't I? As per that website Ben Roethlisberger is having the 7th best season of any qb this season. This with an inconsistent running game and a line cast into a total state of flux starting in week one, and continuing on through every game to date. Ben has to be near perfect on a very flawed team in order for this team to have any chance to win. He's got big shoulders, just not big enough to carry a substandard 53 man roster.

Putting franchise qb in quotations?! Wow!

[fansince'76]

he hasnt done anything ?

lets see took them to the playoffs as a rookie after the team was 2-14 the season before .....

A team that went 2-14 the season before because they deliberately tanked games with the sole purpose of drafting him. Do you really think his 23 TDs against 18 INTs in 2012 directly translated to nine more wins over 2011? If you do, I have some beachfront property in Arizona I'd like to sell you.

currently he has 14 TDs and 6 ints and 3 fumbles while Ben has 13 Tds 10 ints and 7 fumbles

they sit at 6-3 right now while we sit with our " franchise QB " at 3-6 ... but hey if living with past results brings you future and present joy who am I to condemn you for it

And a 58.8% completion rate (Roethlisberger is currently sitting at 64.5% - funny, because all I keep hearing is how inaccurate Roethlisberger is). All behind the 11th-ranked OL in the league (as opposed to the 31st-ranked Steelers OL) But I'm sure that's only because Roethlisberger is stupid and can't read defenses and not because his line sucks hind tit or anything, right? 14 TDs and 6 INTs - funny, but those are the same kind of numbers that have gotten Roethlisberger labeled a "game manager" throughout his career. Your argument just proves my point - when Disney Channel II (ESPN) sucks you off 24x7, you can do no wrong and are God's gift to the sports world, but when they don't, you're a "game manager."

Living in the past? Call me a sentimental old fool, but I think 3 Super Bowl appearances and 2 wins after a quarter-century drought buys the type of loyalty that you're ironically showing to a kid that has yet to win a single playoff game.

[fansince'76]

Putting franchise qb in quotations?! Wow!

And people still wonder why Bradshaw dissed the city and fanbase for 2+ decades after he retired (Hint: it was largely due to exactly this kind of treatment by the fans)...

[zulater]

A team that went 2-14 the season before because they deliberately tanked games with the sole purpose of drafting him. Do you really think his 23 TDs against 18 INTs in 2012 directly translated to nine more wins over 2011? If you do, I have some beachfront property in Arizona I'd like to sell you.



And a 58.8% completion rate (Roethlisberger is currently sitting at 64.5% - funny, because all I keep hearing is how inaccurate Roethlisberger is). All behind the 11th-ranked OL in the league (as opposed to the 31st-ranked Steelers OL) But I'm sure that's only because Roethlisberger is stupid and can't read defenses and not because his line sucks hind tit or anything, right? 14 TDs and 6 INTs - funny, but those are the same kind of numbers that have gotten Roethlisberger labeled a "game manager" throughout his career. Your argument just proves my point - when Disney Channel II (ESPN) sucks you off 24x7, you can do no wrong and are God's gift to the sports world, but when they don't, you're a "game manager."

Living in the past? Call me a sentimental old fool, but I think 3 Super Bowl appearances and 2 wins after a quarter-century drought buys the type of loyalty that you're ironically showing to a kid that has yet to win a single playoff game.

Good numbers!

I'm watching Mike and Mike right now and Golic brought up a great point about playing max protection on passing plays ( which the Steelers are often forced to do because of line issues, of course the discussion came up because of Peyton Manning's gimpy ankle) When you go max protection you in fact force your quarterback to hold the ball longer, because obviously there are less receivers in the pattern. Also backs and tight ends don't block as well as edge rushers pass rush, so it's often counter productive playing max protect, and in the end your qb takes more hits than he would in an otherwise normal offense.

Stupid enough I never thought about it in those terms. But when you think about it I think this goes towards Ben supposedly holding the ball too long. Now granted he does at times. But on balance his hand is forced more than just about any other qb in the league.

[fansince'76]

Good numbers!

I'm watching Mike and Mike right now and Golic brought up a great point about playing max protection on passing plays ( which the Steelers are often forced to do because of line issues, of course the discussion came up because of Peyton Manning's gimpy ankle) When you go max protection you in fact force your quarterback to hold the ball longer, because obviously there are less receivers in the pattern. Also backs and tight ends don't block as well as edge rushers pass rush, so it's often counter productive playing max protect, and in the end your qb takes more hits than he would in an otherwise normal offense.

Stupid enough I never thought about it in those terms. But when you think about it I think this goes towards Ben supposedly holding the ball too long. Now granted he does at times. But on balance his hand is forced more than just about any other qb in the league.

At 36 sacks (only Miami has allowed more), Roethlisberger is on track to be sacked 70+ times on the season, by far the most of his career up to this point...and that's saying something. But of course, I'm sure they're all his fault.

Is it any wonder the guy is feeling "phantom pressure" at times? David Carr's career was essentially ruined from taking sacks at that rate. On the very rare occasions that Roethlisberger actually gets a clean pocket and is given more than 1.5 seconds to throw, it's almost like he doesn't know how to handle it.

[zulater]

At 36 sacks (only Tampa Bay has more), Roethlisberger is on track for 70+ sacks on the season, by far the most of his career up to this point - and that's saying something. But of course, I'm sure they're all his fault.

Of course they always are. As are all the fumbles. But of course people conveniently forget how often Ben has made game changing plays when he's supposed to be giving up on the play. Great case in point was the shovel pass to Bell that set up the first score against the Bills. He should have just crumbled to the ground there with the ball cradled in both hands, maybe tried to fall forward to avoid as big of loss. But nope, big dummy kept his eyes downfield and found a live receiver who had a chance to do something with the play. Idiot!

[86WARD]

Roethlisberger rookie season >>>>>>> Luck rookie season.

[Dwinsgames]

A team that went 2-14 the season before because they deliberately tanked games with the sole purpose of drafting him. Do you really think his 23 TDs against 18 INTs in 2012 directly translated to nine more wins over 2011? If you do, I have some beachfront property in Arizona I'd like to sell you.



And a 58.8% completion rate (Roethlisberger is currently sitting at 64.5% - funny, because all I keep hearing is how inaccurate Roethlisberger is). All behind the 11th-ranked OL in the league (as opposed to the 31st-ranked Steelers OL) But I'm sure that's only because Roethlisberger is stupid and can't read defenses and not because his line sucks hind tit or anything, right? 14 TDs and 6 INTs - funny, but those are the same kind of numbers that have gotten Roethlisberger labeled a "game manager" throughout his career. Your argument just proves my point - when Disney Channel II (ESPN) sucks you off 24x7, you can do no wrong and are God's gift to the sports world, but when they don't, you're a "game manager."

Living in the past? Call me a sentimental old fool, but I think 3 Super Bowl appearances and 2 wins after a quarter-century drought buys the type of loyalty that you're ironically showing to a kid that has yet to win a single playoff game.

Point A ) did you bother to compare his rookie stats to the colts season before with the crap they trotted out there ? ( clearly you did not )

Point B ) where did I say Ben was a game manager ? since this was directed towards me lets keep it on point to things I actually said not things you decided to post to make your argument look better

Point C ) Living in the past is what put this team in cap hell , paying players for past performances instead of paying them with an eye on future results with age and performance decline managed into that contract value .....

but hey you see it your way I see it mine , the only difference is I am not making it up as I go along in terms to what you have actually said ... but whatever its a common theme around here

[ALLD]

http://www.theonion.com/articles/pittsburgh-residents-horrified-to-learn-ben-roethl,34539/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&ut m_campaign=LinkPreview:1efault

[fansince'76]

Point A ) did you bother to compare his rookie stats to the colts season before with the crap they trotted out there ? ( clearly you did not )

Yeah. He had more TDs, but he also threw more INTs than the Collins/Painter/Orlovsky triumvirate. Against a softer schedule as well, which is what a 2-14 record also gets you. At the end of the day, I still think the 2011 Colts tanked. I honestly think the 2011 Colts were, in reality, a 7-9/8-8 team that lost games on purpose to get Luck in the draft. I think their owner is enough of an asshat to have orchestrated it too.

Point B ) where did I say Ben was a game manager ? since this was directed towards me lets keep it on point to things I actually said not things you decided to post to make your argument look better

You didn't directly. But doesn't mockingly calling him a franchise QB by making a point to put the words in quotation marks kind of imply it?

Point C ) Living in the past is what put this team in cap hell , paying players for past performances instead of paying them with an eye on future results with age and performance decline managed into that contract value .....

No argument. They tried to make another run with a bunch of aging players in 2010 and lost the Super Bowl. They're paying the piper for it now. However, I think Troy's and Woodley's salaries are far bigger albatrosses around this franchise's neck at the moment than Roethlisberger's, based on the returns the team is currently getting from each respective player.

but hey you see it your way I see it mine , the only difference is I am not making it up as I go along in terms to what you have actually said ... but whatever its a common theme around here

On an ending note, I am not trying to impugn Luck's ability. I think he's a really good kid and has the potential to be every bit as good as his hype indicates. I just don't think he has lived up to that hype...yet. And as far as making it up as I go along, I'm also not - I stated that I thought the Colts were tanking 2 years ago and I maintain it now.

[Dwinsgames]

You didn't directly. But doesn't mockingly calling him a franchise QB by making a point to put the words in quotation marks kind of imply it?

.

because I for 1 no longer believe Ben to be a " franchise QB " ... the term is thrown around far to loosely IMO , he had a stretch no doubt but that window has all but closed IMO he has taken far to many hits in his career with no end in sight , some his fault but most where not .....

I believe a guy can be a franchise QB and then just be " a QB " average . slightly above or below or possibly horrible .... Ben is average with flashes of greatness and flashes of horrible .... Ben will lose as many games for you as he will win when asked to carry the team on his back ( perhaps more looking at this season to date )

he is at the age where he should be at his very best , but he is not ...those days are behind him IMO ....

this teams struggles are not because of Ben and Ben alone their is plenty of blame pie to go around , but he does have some culpability

there NOW you know exactly where I stand on Ben

[ALLD]

If the D created more TOs and scored once in awhile and the O had a feature RB for Ben to fall back on, then he would rise to top 5 again.

[fansince'76]

because I for 1 no longer believe Ben to be a " franchise QB " ... the term is thrown around far to loosely IMO , he had a stretch no doubt but that window has all but closed IMO he has taken far to many hits in his career with no end in sight , some his fault but most where not .....

I believe a guy can be a franchise QB and then just be " a QB " average . slightly above or below or possibly horrible .... Ben is average with flashes of greatness and flashes of horrible .... Ben will lose as many games for you as he will win when asked to carry the team on his back ( perhaps more looking at this season to date )

he is at the age where he should be at his very best , but he is not ...those days are behind him IMO ....

this teams struggles are not because of Ben and Ben alone their is plenty of blame pie to go around , but he does have some culpability

there NOW you know exactly where I stand on Ben

Fair enough.

And on that note, I'll agree to disagree, particularly due to the fact that he is on pace to not only surpass but shatter his previous high for sacks sustained in a season. He's getting virtually no help from his OL. It also doesn't help that his receivers are a collection of smurfs (a fact that truly rears its ugly head in the red zone). IMO, average QBs don't complete passes at a 64.5% clip, especially when they're getting hit as much as he's been getting hit this season.

[stillers4me]

Just for the record:

[Dwinsgames]

Fair enough.

And on that note, I'll agree to disagree, particularly due to the fact that he is on pace to not only surpass but shatter his previous high for sacks sustained in a season. He's getting virtually no help from his OL. It also doesn't help that his receivers are a collection of smurfs (a fact that truly rears its ugly head in the red zone). IMO, average QBs don't complete passes at a 64.5% clip, especially when they're getting hit as much as he's been getting hit this season.

he is also on pace to set a personal record for turnovers in a season too in both fumbles and ints and combined .... I understand the line has some culpability but I have also witnessed throws off his back foot looking in an entirely different direction than where he throws the ball and it is picked off , those sort of plays you expect out of Junior Varsity high school players not " franchise NFL QBs " so it is as broad as it it wide ...



as a side note in 2009 Matt Leinart completed over 66 % of his passes was he a franchise QB too ?

[stillers4me]

Big Ben Trade Rumor:

http://www.benstonium.com/videos.php

[Spike]

Ben is our QB and I will always support him - but the day is coming...


We'll need a Joe Willie Namath with the hunger in his belly - plus chasing girls keeps your legs alive longer.

it's true

Roll Tide

[fansince'76]

...plus chasing girls keeps your legs alive longer.

it's true

Not according to Mick...

[Spike]

they made poor Joe Willie play with torn knee ligaments - this was in the days before MRI's

he toughed it out

if he was good enough for Bear Bryant, he's good enough for me

[Mistah Q]

I think Dwins hit it on the head - Ben was great; he isn't anymore. He's at the age when he should be in his prime but year after year of horrible O-lines... sure those horrible O-line haven't been his fault but now he is making more and more of those mistakes on his own accord - call it psychological buildup if you will but now that it's there it's unlikely to be shaken. I'm not sure I blame him but there it is. If Ben spent his career on the Patriots or Broncos, he'd have made John Elway's career look pedestrian. But he got the Steelers and now he's in early decline.

If you look at our drafting habits though, we've heavily invested in O-line, so what does that speak to? Some here are tired of hearing it but it doesn't ring any less true: talent evaluation and player coaching in the post-Cowher years. Every team will have its whiffs, but we endemically don't know how to pick out or coach up players to man the trenches - either side of the ball really.

[Craic]

I think Dwins hit it on the head - Ben was great; he isn't anymore. He's at the age when he should be in his prime but year after year of horrible O-lines... sure those horrible O-line haven't been his fault but now he is making more and more of those mistakes on his own accord - call it psychological buildup if you will but now that it's there it's unlikely to be shaken. I'm not sure I blame him but there it is. If Ben spent his career on the Patriots or Broncos, he'd have made John Elway's career look pedestrian. But he got the Steelers and now he's in early decline.

If you look at our drafting habits though, we've heavily invested in O-line, so what does that speak to? Some here are tired of hearing it but it doesn't ring any less true: talent evaluation and player coaching in the post-Cowher years. Every team will have its whiffs, but we endemically don't know how to pick out or coach up players to man the trenches - either side of the ball really.

What some here are tired of hearing, is a comparison that has more to do with nostalgia than reality. It was very easy to draft a run first, run always offensive line. You don't need to worry about pass blocking in that type of offensive line because you really don't care. Play-action is two to three times as effective as well. I also would remind anyone that it was Cowher's coaching staff that neglected to draft O line players for quite some time, which put the line in the deficit it's still trying to work out of. That doesn't mean he gets blamed for the line now, it means that not everything was rosy then either.

I remember people around here yelling and screaming about Willie Colon, Max Starks, Trai Essex, Kendal Simmons (Ken doll was a common one), etc. Those were all Cowher picks in the first years of Tomlin. Throw the D line in there, and look at the picks from 2006 backwards: Willie (false start/holding) Colon, Orien Harris (both 4th round), Trai Essex (4th) and Shaun Nua (7th), Max Starks Bo Lacy and Drew Caylor as O line and Nathaniel Adibi, and Eric Taylor as D line in 2004.

I mean, the last real HIT in drafting an O line player for Cowher was Marvel Smith in 2000. Before that was Alan Faneca in 1998. Before that, who? Jamain Stephens? first round bust, gone after two years and out of the league after five. Cowher inherited an O line that had Tunch Ilkin, Dermontti Dawson, John Jackson all starting and Justin Strzelczyk as a rookie. For instance, PFR puts the first three as tied for third in overall team value, behind only two nobodies named Greg Lloyd and Rod Woodson.

We have problem on the line. We've been having problems with the line for a long time, part of that was mismanagement of the future of the O line by the previous coaching staff, but the last few years can only fall on this coaching staff. There's no doubting any of that. But we I DON'T agree with, is this magical enhancement of Cowher now being the all-wise, all-knowing coach. He was very good. I liked him. He also sucked in some areas, and had a number of draft picks in his era that blew up on him, including O line picks.

[blackngldblood]

I just can't believe that the Nation is pretty much going to be torn asunder over the best quarterback to wear the black and gold since Terry Bradshaw. Tis sad... History repeating itself? Funny how humans act when things aren't exactly going their way...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk