Buying Into Haley's Offense

[LLT]

While enduring the 4 game losing streak we mentioned the need for the Steelers to open up the short to intermediate passing game. It seems obvious that during these last two games Ben has been much more aware of the slot and the softer areas of coverage. This has allowed him to get rid of the ball faster and the most pleasant side effect of the change is that it has kept defenses honest and opened up the ground game.

At this point is there any truth to the feeling that Ben has bought into Haley's offense? And does that offense play to our current personnel?

[Dwinsgames]

While enduring the 4 game losing streak we mentioned the need for the Steelers to open up the short to intermediate passing game. It seems obvious that during these last two games Ben has been much more aware of the slot and the softer areas of coverage. This has allowed him to get rid of the ball faster and the most pleasant side effect of the change is that it has kept defenses honest and opened up the ground game.

At this point is there any truth to the feeling that Ben has bought into Haley's offense? And does that offense play to our current personnel?

it does to a point play into some of or personnel's strong suits , our line can not sustain blocks for any length of time so short to intermediate passes work to their advantage , same with A.B 7-10 yard patterns where he is on the move when making the catch make him his most dangerous IMO .... and anytime you can throw holes open holes in the running game .....

[Randy06]

I am not sure if it is buying in, or finally understanding it perhaps? I don't know how complicated it is, but maybe they are just getting comfortable, and know where to be, and go?

[LLT]

it does to a point play into some of or personnel's strong suits , our line can not sustain blocks for any length of time so short to intermediate passes work to their advantage , same with A.B 7-10 yard patterns where he is on the move when making the catch make him his most dangerous IMO .... and anytime you can throw holes open holes in the running game .....

That is what I believe also. I'm still a little dubious about some of the run plays when we need long yardage, but overall I think Haley is slowly getting players on board and making them realize that they HAVE to execute and have proper technique.

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I am not sure if it is buying in, or finally understanding it perhaps? I don't know how complicated it is, but maybe they are just getting comfortable, and know where to be, and go?

Right...His offence seems to be predicated on proper technique and timing.

[Psycho Ward 86]

we had an efficient passing game against a putrid jets and ravens defense. dont get too excited yet

[LLT]

we had an efficient passing game against a putrid jets and ravens defense. dont get too excited yet

Actually..... the Jets are a top 10 pass defense and ranked #4 in total defense. The Ravens are the #14 overall defense.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Actually..... the Jets are a top 10 pass defense and ranked #4 in total defense. The Ravens are the #14 overall defense.

14th in total, and 15th in pass defense. Very average. And the jets have played extremely weak passing teams, except the falcons. And they shredded them. Cromartie is also playing on a knee injury that was supposed to possibly end his season, but instead he decided to play the following sunday.

How we pass the ball against the patriots, browns, and bengals (if they can keep it up without leon hall) will be better indicators imo

[LLT]

14th in total, and 15th in pass defense. Very average. And the jets have played extremely weak passing teams, except the falcons. And they shredded them. Cromartie is also playing on a knee injury that was supposed to possibly end his season, but instead he decided to play the following sunday.

How we pass the ball against the patriots, browns, and bengals (if they can keep it up without leon hall) will be better indicators imo

Agreed...but big difference in going from "putrid" to "average".

[Craic]

There's two other factors not mentioned here that is affecting the offense, and the way we view Haley's system. First is that a certain TE has been back for a few weeks now and is back up to gamespeed. There's simply no discounting Heath Miller's affect on this offense (not that anyone here has).

The second is that the left side of the line disappeared from last year, and the right side of the line was shifted to the left side in the offseason. In other words, once again, we were playing with four offensive lineman in new positions at the beginning of the year (I know DeCastro came back, but that's not the same as having a year's experience). Take out the center, and we're looking at virtually a brand new line again. It takes time for that to gel. It's why (outside of Pouncey's injury) I suspected we'd go 4-4 or 3-5 in the first eight games.

But, Heath is back and the line has time together now (granted, with new players again), but they've still been together. The run game has been given a little life (right about the same time as last year, mind you), and the defenses have to account for not just the WRs, but a great TE and the very real possiblity of a run attack.

In short, while Haley does seem to have gone back to the short passes in places (and straightened up his receivers to step behind blocks on bubble screens), those other two factors have accounted a great deal for our troubles before, and why we're playing better now.

[LLT]

There's two other factors not mentioned here that is affecting the offense, and the way we view Haley's system. First is that a certain TE has been back for a few weeks now and is back up to gamespeed. There's simply no discounting Heath Miller's affect on this offense (not that anyone here has).

The second is that the left side of the line disappeared from last year, and the right side of the line was shifted to the left side in the offseason. In other words, once again, we were playing with four offensive lineman in new positions at the beginning of the year (I know DeCastro came back, but that's not the same as having a year's experience). Take out the center, and we're looking at virtually a brand new line again. It takes time for that to gel. It's why (outside of Pouncey's injury) I suspected we'd go 4-4 or 3-5 in the first eight games.

But, Heath is back and the line has time together now (granted, with new players again), but they've still been together. The run game has been given a little life (right about the same time as last year, mind you), and the defenses have to account for not just the WRs, but a great TE and the very real possiblity of a run attack.

In short, while Haley does seem to have gone back to the short passes in places (and straightened up his receivers to step behind blocks on bubble screens), those other two factors have accounted a great deal for our troubles before, and why we're playing better now.

Great points. We discussed in another thread how the return of Miller has made the safety play honestly...whereas they were cheating towards Brown early in the season. As far as the line...I know there is a growing group on this site that thinks the smart move next year is to keep Valesco...move Pouncy to guard...and draft a stud LT.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Great points. We discussed in another thread how the return of Miller has made the safety play honestly...whereas they were cheating towards Brown early in the season. As far as the line...I know there is a growing group on this site that thinks the smart move next year is to keep Valesco...move Pouncy to guard...and draft a stud LT.

that would be a dream come true. hopefully our cap situation will be looking better and not worse by the end of 2014 (or at the end of this season) so we can lock him up

[tihmtahm]

we had an efficient passing game against a putrid jets and ravens defense. dont get too excited yet

The Jets did beat the Patriots with that shitty D... Just sayin'.

[tube517]

[ALLD]

It just might simply be a desperation move with nothing else left. Could also be a combination of factors such as using the timed slot receiver which keeps other defenses from simply bum rushing Ben which virtually leaves the OL helpless. Ben was still reverting holding onto the ball when their pass coverage dropped into zone, but he was only sacked twice and we ultimately won. The running game also opened up.

[LLT]

It just might simply be a desperation move with nothing else left. Could also be a combination of factors such as using the timed slot receiver which keeps other defenses from simply bum rushing Ben which virtually leaves the OL helpless. Ben was still reverting holding onto the ball when their pass coverage dropped into zone, but he was only sacked twice and we ultimately won. The running game also opened up.

Thats one of the basic truths of Football. A short to intermediate passing game should open up the running game AND keep the blitz at a minimum...basically giving us a 5 to 4 or 5 to 5 matchup on a more regular basis.

[HollywoodSteel]

I'm pleased that the offense seems to be doing much better. My main issue with Haley, and the coaching staff in general, is that they should have coached the team into this place by the start of the season, not over a quarter of the way through it. I know having Heath back for a few weeks is huge, and losing Pouncey in the first game sucked (although we got surprisingly lucky with a replacement), but it just seemed that something was lacking in the coaching department - from evaluation of the LT position to teaching the guys how execute what they were supposed to execute.

That said, I'm not going to be all negative. I will give Haley and everyone else credit for continuing to work at it and improving. A couple of spots on the O-line aside, I do think this is a talented offense that can be far deadlier than it's been. I have especially impressed with A.B. That dude is a straight up NFL playmaker. Here's hoping we're over the big bump and that it only gets better from here.

[steel striker]

Back to when the Cheats played the Jets last Sunday and, Brady did not look all that great against them I'm just saying.

[Devilsdancefloor]

the win streak games miller affect big time! i also want to say you cn say whatever about the past 2 D we faced oh they ranked X this is a confidence builder for the Oline plus we beat our rival! im not sure if they are buying more into it or the fact now they have a patient runner in bell and miller back to open up the field a bit

[Psycho Ward 86]

id say its more about whether or not one is buying into the offensive line, and not necessarily todd haley's offense. thats been the one constant stinker since 2007

[LLT]

id say its more about whether or not one is buying into the offensive line, and not necessarily todd haley's offense. thats been the one constant stinker since 2007

Haley has to work with the personnel given to him.... He actually helps the offensive line by creating quick passes in the short and intermidiate game. Nothing makes an offensive line look better than only having to block for a short amount of time.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Haley has to work with the personnel given to him.... He actually helps the offensive line by creating quick passes in the short and intermidiate game. Nothing makes an offensive line look better than only having to block for a short amount of time.

thats what i do like about haley's offense in comparison to arians. but i hate to bring up the A-word because once you do, this thread will explode into a bruce arians thread. still, this offense seemed to lack a vast quick pass element for the 1st couple of games

[Craic]

thats what i do like about haley's offense in comparison to arians. but i hate to bring up the A-word because once you do, this thread will explode into a bruce arians thread. still, this offense seemed to lack a vast quick pass element for the 1st couple of games

Not necessarily. While both Bruce and Haley have their good points and bad points, one thing I agree with you on is that Haley is at least working to keep Ben upright with some shorter passing work. It's obvious that something wasn't right at the beginning of this year, too. But as I said before, I think that's more from the complete shift of personnel, and leads to my other main problem with the head coach.

I think that treating the offensive line as five utility men that should be able to plop into any spot on the line is a failed experiment. Stop trying to force guys into places that they can't play, and let them focus on one position, with one backup position if need be.

[Psycho Ward 86]

I think that treating the offensive line as five utility men that should be able to plop into any spot on the line is a failed experiment. Stop trying to force guys into places that they can't play, and let them focus on one position, with one backup position if need be.

well, its not like we've really had a choice in the matter since our O-line has been by far the most injury prone unit on this team for the past couple years

[Craic]

well, its not like we've really had a choice in the matter since our O-line has been by far the most injury prone unit on this team for the past couple years

It's the philosophy that Tomlin brought to the team, and at first, I was all for it. It sounded like it made sense. Now, I'm thinking that the injuries may (in part) be coming because we don't have people settled in one position and mastering that position. As a result, they're injuring themselves or others because they don't know the little details, like when a guy moves a specific way, make sure to readjust your right foot so your knee doesn't torque wrong when your a LT. Those kind of things are usually picked up by experience, and may not even be thought about. They happen because after getting a tinge of pain two or three times through the year, the player just naturally adjusts to stop it.

[LLT]

thats what i do like about haley's offense in comparison to arians. but i hate to bring up the A-word because once you do, this thread will explode into a bruce arians thread. still, this offense seemed to lack a vast quick pass element for the 1st couple of games

I think that was due to two reasons. The loss of Miller and the line having to play very conservative and simplified until Valesco and "others" learned to trust each other and fully learn the playbook