Few Positives right now, but Le'Veon Bell looks like the Real Deal

[Count Steeler]

Hell I'd rather finish the season off playing exclusively rookies and backups. See who has what going on for them, know exactly who to cut, and get ourselves a fancy draft pick.

Yeah, but somehow Goodell would fine us.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Einstein's definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results ..that Is what this team is doing now

so your solution is to bench bell and start dwyer because you think having 3 carries for 9 yards amounts to "having the hot hand?" lol. so again, who exactly in the entire NFL do you think can run behind this o-line?

[Dwinsgames]

so your solution is to bench bell and start dwyer because you think having 3 carries for 9 yards amounts to "having the hot hand?" lol. so again, who exactly in the entire NFL do you think can run behind this o-line?

it is not a matter of mystically pulling someone out of the thin air to accomplish the near impossible , it is a matter of trying to get better even if by baby steps and then build on that ...

nobody said BENCH anyone , however If one guy is being more consistent than the other even in small samples then let him have more reps and see if the trend continues and build from it ...

[Psycho Ward 86]

nobody said BENCH anyone , however If one guy is being more consistent than the other even in small samples then let him have more reps and see if the trend continues and build from it ...

Your quotes on the previous page:
"Dwyer ran for 3.0 YPC behind same line that Bell produced 1.8 so it is not beyond comprehension better results are possible than the 1.8"

"I am suggesting to use the personnel that is getting results until they no longer are getting result ... its called going with hot hand its also called coaching adjustments a foreign term Tomlin led teams"

"Einstein's definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results ..that Is what this team is doing now"


and of course, all of these came after i said: Please none of that "i never said this" routine. you clearly implied what i believe you are saying.

i find your logic baffling. i have my opinions, you have yours, and thats cool but you arent making any sense. You have shown a great disdain for Isaac Redman, the very epitome of a back who has been extremely successful in small doses, but usually pretty bad when given the opportunity to be the main back. Yet you think dwyer can do better based off of him getting 3 carries for 9 yards? Huh?

If you want to get really technical, bell had a higher YPC in half the games where dwyer and bell both played. So in the manner you're currently evaluating these backs in, they're even. But how is that even comparable when dwyer has had 9 touches in that span for 30 yards and bell has had 77 touches for 290 yards in that same span of time (Plus he's been a 3 down back for us)?

[Seven]

I think Jonathan Dwyer is a really nice player. I think he's one of the best backups in the league --- a borderline starting caliber player. I'm glad he ended up beating out Redman for a spot on the roster when all was said and done. He's more accomplished at every aspect of the position than Redman was. But I think it's clear at this point that while Dwyer could evolve into a good starter, Bell might evolve into a great one. He has more pop, more stamina and the best patience I've seen in a tailback since LaDainian Tomlinson. He's still making mistakes in pass protection and while his patience is good, I think his vision and anticipation are still developing. Dwyer has him in blocking and vision in my opinion, but I don't think that will be the case by season's end. I don't see a scenario where I take the ball out of Bell's hands until we have a much bigger sample size. If they're at 100 carries each and Dwyer was significantly outperforming him, that's one thing. But I don't think this is a similar situation to last year where Dwyer was outperforming Redman and Mendenhall on similar attempts. This is a different situation in my opinion. I think giving Dwyer 5 - 10 carries a game and using him in critical passing downs is very good utilization of his talents. Bell looks like a legitimate workhorse to me. There are only a handful of those in today's NFL.

[Dwinsgames]

Your quotes on the previous page:
"Dwyer ran for 3.0 YPC behind same line that Bell produced 1.8 so it is not beyond comprehension better results are possible than the 1.8"

"I am suggesting to use the personnel that is getting results until they no longer are getting result ... its called going with hot hand its also called coaching adjustments a foreign term Tomlin led teams"

"Einstein's definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results ..that Is what this team is doing now"


and of course, all of these came after i said: Please none of that "i never said this" routine. you clearly implied what i believe you are saying.

i find your logic baffling. i have my opinions, you have yours, and thats cool but you arent making any sense. You have shown a great disdain for Isaac Redman, the very epitome of a back who has been extremely successful in small doses, but usually pretty bad when given the opportunity to be the main back. Yet you think dwyer can do better based off of him getting 3 carries for 9 yards? Huh?

If you want to get really technical, bell had a higher YPC in half the games where dwyer and bell both played. So in the manner you're currently evaluating these backs in, they're even. But how is that even comparable when dwyer has had 9 touches in that span for 30 yards and bell has had 77 touches for 290 yards in that same span of time (Plus he's been a 3 down back for us)?

it is not making any sense to you because you clearly do not understand what making adjustments means .... if 1 guy Is NOT performing and the other is performing better keep giving it to the one who is doing better regardless of his jersey number its that simple ... continuing to try and explain it to you is an exercise in futility at this point

[Mistah Q]

While I still feel Bell is the better back in general, if the O-line's breaking down and Dwyer is able to make a little more of it - you run Dwyer to see what happens. With even adequate O-line play you love a guy like Bell but when all hell is breaking down, you want a bowling ball. I think using guys situationally to their strengths isn't a knock on one or the other. I really doubt Dwyer would have produced given more carries, but you at least try it.

There's a line to be drawn where you don't want to demoralize your starting back, show faith through a rough patch, etc, but we're not even close to that line really. While the Steelers deserved to lose that game, it was still a game where small differences could have given the W. I'm a little torn. I think for the team to get back to winning in the long term we need a sobering enough year (and a couple good enough draft picks) for there to be organizational changes. So while I don't like the loss, I'm not as pissed about it as most seem to be - bring in the hatchet, I say.

But back on point - I'm pretty sure Dwins isn't saying "Dwyer is better, based on two carries". If you knew him any, you wouldn't think he meant that either. The point is what I said before -- I really doubt Dwyer would have produced given more carries, but you at least try it.

But perhaps Dwins is asking too much here. When have the Steelers ever done that? I'm pretty sure I remember enduring the rage and frustration of watching Amos Zereoue running for one yard, one yard, and then one more yard on third and long... and trying to force the issue of getting Bettis his TD in the Super Bowl... one yard and a cloud of dust is just our style.

[zulater]

After watching the game, Bell wasn't the problem. He actually did some good things, his pass blocking has improved, he catches the ball out of the backfield better than any back we've had in a while. And his running wasn't nearly as bad as his stats would suggest. He had two carries where combined he lost 9 yards. He didn't have a chance on either play, get hit on the one as soon as he secured the handoff, on the other, he tried to kick out around left end because the middle was locked up, and got buried in the flat. Anyway take those two runs out and he got what was ther to be had most every time. I don't think there's even a doubt that he's the Steelers best option in the backfield.

Dwyer has done what's asked of him though. He's good to have around.

[Dwinsgames]

After watching the game, Bell wasn't the problem. He actually did some good things, his pass blocking has improved, he catches the ball out of the backfield better than any back we've had in a while. And his running wasn't nearly as bad as his stats would suggest. He had two carries where combined he lost 9 yards. He didn't have a chance on either play, get hit on the one as soon as he secured the handoff, on the other, he tried to kick out around left end because the middle was locked up, and got buried in the flat. Anyway take those two runs out and he got what was ther to be had most every time. I don't think there's even a doubt that he's the Steelers best option in the backfield.

Dwyer has done what's asked of him though. He's good to have around.

On November 12, 2006, in a home game against the New Orleans Saints, Parker rushed for 213 yards on 22 carries and two touchdowns, coming 5 yards short of the highest single-game rushing total in Steelers history. His two long gains of 72 and 76 yards set up touchdowns that capped off the Pittsburgh victory, 38–31. His 76-yard sprint late in the 4th quarter was the longest rush in Heinz Field history.

take away those 2 runs and Parker went 20 for 65 ( not a great day at the office ) ....

the thing about the NFL is we do not take away plays from a game to make the stats look the way we want them to , we take all the plays as they happened

[Seven]

Uh oh.... someone said Willie Parker

- - - Updated - - -

The three names I wince at the most when mentioned on this board: Mitt Romney, Mike Wallace and Willie Parker. Anytime one of those names are mentioned, there is a high chance turmoil will ensue

[Mistah Q]

Uh oh.... someone said Willie Parker

- - - Updated - - -

The three names I wince at the most when mentioned on this board: Mitt Romney, Mike Wallace and Willie Parker. Anytime one of those names are mentioned, there is a high chance turmoil will ensue

We should have signed all three of them to four year contracts.

[zulater]

take away those 2 runs and Parker went 20 for 65 ( not a great day at the office ) ....

the thing about the NFL is we do not take away plays from a game to make the stats look the way we want them to , we take all the plays as they happened

I didn't say he had a great game, or even a good game. I just made the comment that I think he's the best back on the team, and there's no reason after this past game to revisit that.

I'm fine with Dwyer getting a series or two during the game. But Bell is your unquestioned starter, both in my opinion and the Steelers rotation. There is nothing to argue about. How good he'll be? We'll see. But this much I can tell you, Leveon hasn't dis proven himself as an NFL starter. Every other back on the roster pretty much has.

[Steeldude]

I didn't say he had a great game, or even a good game. I just made the comment that I think he's the best back on the team, and there's no reason after this past game to revisit that.

I'm fine with Dwyer getting a series or two during the game. But Bell is your unquestioned starter, both in my opinion and the Steelers rotation. There is nothing to argue about. How good he'll be? We'll see. But this much I can tell you, Leveon hasn't dis proven himself as an NFL starter. Every other back on the roster pretty much has.

Or proven himself, yet. He runs the same as the others when the O-line fails to open holes.

[zulater]

Or proven himself, yet. He runs the same as the others when the O-line fails to open holes.

Yea granted. He hasn't. But the others all have proven what they're not. So you need to find out if this kid can be the long term answer or not.

[Dwinsgames]

Yea granted. He hasn't. But the others all have proven what they're not. So you need to find out if this kid can be the long term answer or not.

how so when so many claim the failures of tis teams running game is the 0-Line , the line play has been bad for years .... and NONE of the RBs on the roster have had a chance to play behind a good line here yet .... ( so is Bell the only guy here that is capable of running behind good line ) he is not running as well behind the bad one we currently employ ... I believe Bell is the most physically gifted RB on the roster but no more so than Mendenhall was ...being physically gifted and being productive are not one in the same

[zulater]

Think what you like Dwins. As for me I'm fine with the Steelers making Bell the primary back. The fact that his pass blocking has improved as much and as quickly as it has tells me he isn't taking things for granted. I also think he's showing a lot more ability as a pass receiver than the other backs. So I'm not really sure what's the issue here?

[Dwinsgames]

Think what you like Dwins. As for me I'm fine with the Steelers making Bell the primary back. The fact that his pass blocking has improved as much and as quickly as it has tells me he isn't taking things for granted. I also think he's showing a lot more ability as a pass receiver than the other backs. So I'm not really sure what's the issue here?

1.8 YPC that is the issue , and the coaching staff not changing things up to try and improve it ....

2.1 YPC in another game ...

3.6 .....

4.9 ( his saving grace game that helps him make 3.3 for the year to date )

and most everyone here claimed Dwers 4.0 season average last year as NOT good enough but defend and make excuses for Bells lesser efforts ... baffling

[Psycho Ward 86]

Uh oh.... someone said Willie Parker

- - - Updated - - -

The three names I wince at the most when mentioned on this board: Mitt Romney, Mike Wallace and Willie Parker. Anytime one of those names are mentioned, there is a high chance turmoil will ensue

[Count Steeler]

I think Dwyer shot himself in the foot one too many times. He showed up to camp overweight for 2 seasons, seemed to get into Tomlin's doghouse, and only because of injuries he got his shot. He did get 2 consecutive 100 yard games last season, something I don't think we will do again for awhile, and look liked a decent option. However, he still was winded and could not stay on the field for more than 2 runs.

I think his off the field issues ruined his chances of being an on the field success. Get a reputation as a slacker, and its hard to climb the ladder.

[Texasteel]

This is just my opinion, but there are two reasons I would keep Bell in the position he has now.

1. I really don't think we are going anywhere this year no matter who the RB is.

2. He is still learning, and will learn faster in the game. He is still figuring out what will and will not work in the pros. and starting to get use to the speed of the pro game. I have heard several players say that the hardest thing to get use to is the speed of the pro game. If I thought we were still in the hunt for a playoff spot I may change my mind, but I can't see that happening right now.

By the way, I don't think the posters on the other side are Bell haters, or even are down on Bell. I know one in particular that was very happy that we got him. It's just that they haven't see the play out of him that we were hoping for. Either way I think Bell will be fine, and end up as the future of the Steelers.

[Mojouw]

1.8 YPC that is the issue , and the coaching staff not changing things up to try and improve it ....

2.1 YPC in another game ...

3.6 .....

4.9 ( his saving grace game that helps him make 3.3 for the year to date )

and most everyone here claimed Dwers 4.0 season average last year as NOT good enough but defend and make excuses for Bells lesser efforts ... baffling

I'll bite. If nothing else to play devil's advocate. From what I remember of Dwyer last season, he is a back that has flashes of good traits and then stretches of bad ones. Let us put aside the YPC for a moment. I for one never advocated for Dwyer's demotion (I also want to clarify that while I was not shocked or totally outraged by the decision to cut him, I also did not agree with it) based on his raw statistics. Dwyer's inability to make defenders miss, set up blocks, run with patience or vision, and get in good enough shape that he could play more than 3 snaps in a row were why I felt a change was necessary. From what I have seen Bell is a better receiver, a more patient runner, and seems to have better instincts at the position than Dwyer has demonstrated.

So again, take the stats away, as they are product of the larger offense and its success or failures; what else do you not like about Bell? I for one will potentially hold it against him that he was a 2nd round pick in a league where the RB position is at an all time low in value. But I still see a back that has demonstrated more potential and room for improvement that Dwyer ever has. Let me be clear, I was super excited when Dwyer was drafted, but lost patience as he squandered opportunity after opportunity.

Do borrow an oldie but a goodie...."we just need a big back who can beat off defenders..."

[Dwinsgames]

I'll bite. If nothing else to play devil's advocate. From what I remember of Dwyer last season, he is a back that has flashes of good traits and then stretches of bad ones. Let us put aside the YPC for a moment. I for one never advocated for Dwyer's demotion (I also want to clarify that while I was not shocked or totally outraged by the decision to cut him, I also did not agree with it) based on his raw statistics. Dwyer's inability to make defenders miss, set up blocks, run with patience or vision, and get in good enough shape that he could play more than 3 snaps in a row were why I felt a change was necessary. From what I have seen Bell is a better receiver, a more patient runner, and seems to have better instincts at the position than Dwyer has demonstrated.

So again, take the stats away, as they are product of the larger offense and its success or failures; what else do you not like about Bell? I for one will potentially hold it against him that he was a 2nd round pick in a league where the RB position is at an all time low in value. But I still see a back that has demonstrated more potential and room for improvement that Dwyer ever has. Let me be clear, I was super excited when Dwyer was drafted, but lost patience as he squandered opportunity after opportunity.

Do borrow an oldie but a goodie...."we just need a big back who can beat off defenders..."

I have just 1 issue with Bell ... lack of Production

[Psycho Ward 86]

1.8 YPC that is the issue , and the coaching staff not changing things up to try and improve it ....

2.1 YPC in another game ...

3.6 .....

4.9 ( his saving grace game that helps him make 3.3 for the year to date )

and most everyone here claimed Dwers 4.0 season average last year as NOT good enough but defend and make excuses for Bells lesser efforts ... baffling

uh, bell wasnt on this team last season. you are comparing how dwyer played compared to bell on a completely different team. that makes zero sense. and of course dwyer's 4.0 average season wasnt good enough. we were in the bottom 5 in the league in rushing. 4.0 is a very so-so rushing YPC average. Look at the rushing YPC averages around the league last season and this season.

you dislike redman, a back who for most of his time here proved very effective in limited playing time, but ineffective when pressed into starting duties the past season and a half. yet you think dwyer would be more effective than bell based on his average of 3 carries per game. in an even greater twist of irony, bell actually has a higher YPC than dwyer on the season. i thought you wanted the more efficient back playing more?

dwyer has an awful work ethic, weight problems, inferior agility, zero ability as a receiver out of the backfield, and the worst vision from a running back we've had since willie parker. Despite this, i do tend to agree with you that he should get more playing time....but as a blocker, because he and redman were the top rated blocking backs in the entire NFL last year according to pro football focus. more 2-back sets look like a way to protect Ben.


inb4 ambiguous response

[Dwinsgames]

I will spell it out for you as plain as possible 1 last time then I am done ....

I do not care what year it took place in if 4.0 YPC Is not considered good enough an people complain those same people should not be making excuses for a different back producing 3.3 let alone 1.8.... I am done here

[Seven]

I have just 1 issue with Bell ... lack of Production

I think any back with more touches behind the current line is going to face similar problems, though. I like using Dwyer off the bench. His only weakness as a tailback, in my opinion, is stamina. Limited touches remedies that in a way that makes him a very effective player. I think last year was different in that we had a good run blocking offensive line for a solid portion of the season and Redman/Mendenhall were not performing behind it, where Dwyer was. I don't see that distinction between Dwyer and Bell this year if their roles were reversed. I could be wrong, that's just the way I see it.