Array title="Craic has a reputation beyond repute">
Not reading the OP or understanding what Zu is saying doesn't provide for a good answer. Period. Zu isn't saying getting rid of Ben is the answer. Far from it. He's actually begging for Ben to be released from what he considers a bad team so that Ben can go on to enjoy a better career somewhere else.Originally Posted by Master Blaster
I think it's a shortsighted statement, but that's what he's saying.
Back off. I don't need your smug, self righteous and arrogant ass to interpret what Zu's intention is. I've corresponded with him in a different site for years.
If we trade Ben, who do we put at QB to get killed by a lack of blocking
Array title="Craic has a reputation beyond repute">
Guess I shouldn't answer tone for tone, eh? There's no interpretation of Zu's intention. He lays it out very clearly in the OP, and again in another post. He doesn't want to get rid of Ben because he thinks that's the answer.
Oh, and I'm very glad you don't need "my ass." You'd be disappointed since I'm married and don't swing that way, though I never knew that my ass could actually interpret something. Hmm, interesting.
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Reminds me of this: Start at :27
Array title="zulater has a reputation beyond repute">
It could be if this season continues to derail, and there doesn't look to be any sign of improvement as things go on. Particularly if Ben keeps getting beat around like a pinata. If at the end of a 5 win or less season the Steelers decide they need to go into a total rebuilding mode do you then build your team around an 11 year veteran who's been beat to hell for 3 straight years? And who knows, if they end up with a top 5 pick maybe there's a future franchise qb sitting there? Do you really want Ben to mentor his successor? I'm not even sure he would?
This is not what I want to happen, but right now you just have to wait and see where this season goes and play it accordingly in the offseason. At this point I don't think any option can be completely removed from the table.
\
"A man's got to know his limitations."
Zu , are you drunk ?
if so fine ....
But I have known you what now 10-12 years ?
I have NEVER seen so many typos in 1 post from you in all those years ( none even close ) ...
if your drinking thats cool have one for me too !!
not trying to pick your post apart based on grammar ( I would be the last one to even try that ) just wondering is all LOL it is so out of character is all
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All been edited out now.New Chrome notebook my wife just got me that I'm trying to get used to. Keyboard is a little smaller than I'm used to.
"A man's got to know his limitations."
All been edited out now.
congrats on the new Notebook , hope it is a swift transition LOL
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Probably using a tablet for the first time.
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All been edited out now.
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She only got it for me so she could get on the home p.c. occasionally.
"A man's got to know his limitations."
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Mike Tomlin.
I know what his intention was. I stated my opinion. End of discussion.
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Of course, the thread moved on from that point, so by posting to state "end of discussion," you actually furthered it.
Actually do it on a daily basis believe it or not and haven't been struck yet. Stop being over sensitive...it's not a derogatory comment. I wouldn't really bother with personally attacking you. As you can see from my history here, I've never gotten into name calling with anyone here.
But anyway...like I originally said: Anyone who really wants to trade Ben away...insane. It would be a move Cleveland would make.
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Say we go 4-12 ish. Ben is sacked nearly 50 times, and gets hurt again and misses some starts for the 3rd straight year. And say the offense stays in the bottom 5 of the league for yards and points. What do you think's going to happen? Think Troy's back? The Beard? Clark? LeBeau? Heath? There's going to be a house cleaning if things don't turn around. Ben will be going into his 11th season next year. You really go to start a rebuilding project around an 11 year veteran who gets hurt every year? And what if we're in position to draft a can't miss quarterback? You passing on him or making him sit behind "mentor Ben" for a couple years? Now that really would be insane.
"A man's got to know his limitations."
Okay, I've had a little more time to think this scenario through. To quote "The Million Dollar Man" Ted Dibiase, everyone's got a price. Even Ben. And if you've got a trade partner that's willing to pay that price (whatever that price may be in your mind), you're telling me you wouldn't make the deal?
I have a few questions for Zu, just so I have an idea for how well you have this thought out.
- You've put Ben on the trading block. What EXACTLY do you want in return?
- What team(s) in the NFL do you think would be the most ideal trading partners? How likely would it be for them to give you what you want for Ben?
- What do you do at the quarterback position? Is there a college QB that you're really high on that you want to draft? Make a deal for a young #2 like Ryan Mallet or Kirk Cousins? Plug in a stop-gap like Jason Campbell? Or do you think Landry Jones is someone who could taker over and be the quarterback for the next 7-10 years?
- What do you do with Todd Haley?
You don't have to agree with me, but I do recomend it.
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First off let me repeat I want things to straighten out in PGH so there's no need to consider trading Ben. And by straighten out I don't have any specific record in mind, by what needs to happen is that this team has got to start showing some semblance of offensive continuity, something tangible that can be taken into next year.
In a worst case scenario, what we've seen these last couple games plays out through the entire season. The offense is in such shatters that a complete overhaul becomes necessary, then at that point I look t trade Ben.
As to potential trade partners, I've already mentioned two earlier in the thread. But to repeat, the Texans and the Bengals are two that would fit the profile of a team that's a legitimate qb away from being a legitimate Super Bowl threat. Through in the Vikings too. All three of these teams have good overall talent and could compete for a Super Bowl with Ben. All the aforementioned are just spinning their wheels with their current qb's imo. Another early playoff flame out this year by the Texans and Bengals and I think that will be evident to them.
As to compensation. I guess it all depends on what sort of season Ben finishes up with, and what the state of his health is. Even a beat up Ben should get you back a 1st rounder +. What that plus is is dependent on all sort of factors. So it's impossible to quantify.
As to our future qb ( were it to come to that) if you finish with a bad enough record this season maybe he's there waiting for you in next year's draft? If you trade Ben early enough perhaps you can package a deal to insure that you can get a chance to draft a future star qb?
And no I don't want any parts of a Jason Cambell type qb. I'd go with Grabowski and Landry first.
Look sometimes you have to be really bad for a few years before you can be really good again. Maybe that's where things are going? But if you are that bad, don't build around an 11 year vet. That's all I'm saying.
"A man's got to know his limitations."
On a side note, if a crazy ass trade were to happen, which it won't, it would be cool to see Ben go to Arizona and tear up the league with Fitz.
Yes, this thread is the reason why I've been away for the past 5 days.
I'm really starting to hate football and football fans.
I know, seriously, right? Most people wishing this to happen look more like Browns management! Trade your best player. LOL!
Ben will retire a Steeler. The one thing that has been seriously overlooked is the value we have gotten in this years draft. Jarvis Jones, starter. Bell, would-be starter. Marcus Wheaton, I'll bet he starts this week. Sharko, I don't know if he started, but he played a lot last game. Vince Williams, starter? Again, he played a ton. That's five guys out of 22 (offense and defense) that came from 2013 draft!!! Read that again and let it soak in. Colbert may have nailed this one. Heck, these are 5 guys who should be considerably better in year 2. We may be looking at all upside from here out. The o line, I though played pretty well last game. Yeah, there were sacks and hurries, but Ben was holding the ball for ages, until he threw the ball to Cotchery for a drive killing drop.
We could very well surprise the the Bears. Heck, we've even had decent pressure on the QB. And our corner backs have been amazing. Thanks Ike. Looks like we get Cortez, Bell and Heath back in a week or so. What's not to like? This team could be one of those sleeper teams like the Giants who nailed it for a SuperBowl after starting 8-8 or 9-7. Time will tell, but I'm not throwing in the towel yet. There's still plenty of terrible left in it.
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Hypocrite much? Go read through the Penguin and Pirate thread's and then tell us how you're so much above it all!
It's funny how on this board if you question anything Tomlin does you're a reactionary moron. Meanwhile XT here demands the head of Dan Blysma on a regular basis. Well compare resume's dude.
And yeah I know this thread is about Ben, but anyone with reading comprehension can see it's not an anti Ben rant. Hell it's not even an anti Steelers diatribe. All it does is bring up the very real possibility that this team might not be a viable Super Bowl contender again in what's left of Ben's prime years. It also deals with the possibility that Ben's prime years are in danger of being severely shortened if this team doesn't do a better job of putting some real talent around him soon. And gives some thought about what you might do about it if things don't look as if they can be repaired quick enough.
So if you want to put your head's in the sand and whistle through the graveyard and pretend everything will just be fine as long as you don't look hard enough, by my guest.
But I'm not going to.
One last thing.
Peyton Manning, John Unitas, Joe Montana, Joe Namath, and Brett Favre.
Guess what these qb's have in common?
Last edited by zulater; 09-21-2013 at 11:00 PM.
"A man's got to know his limitations."
Minnesota I'll give you, and in all reality you may get the best draft picks in return. Houston I don't see biting because their front office looks to be committed to Matt Schaub for the long haul (and just as well, I feel like I'm the only man on Earth who doesn't hate Matt Schaub. What does he do so wrong? What are his warts? No, he's not a top 6 elite quarterback but he's lightyears from Blaine Gabbert territory). Cincinnati... No. Just no. You just don't trade inside the division (UNLESS you're 110% that he has absolutely nothing left in the tank, a la Donovan McNabb getting traded to the Redskins, or you trade him to Cleveland where they could start an All-Pro team and still wind up 4-12).
Who is he? He who? You're pitching trading the face of the franchise for nearly the last decade and there isn't anyone on your radar to replace Ben Roethlisberger with? You mentioned Peyton Manning later on, but do you think the Colts would've dumped him if they didn't have Andrew Luck practically waiting for them? Do you think the Packers would've dumped Brett Favre if they weren't sure what they were getting with Aaron Rodgers? You're not going to sell the idea of trading Ben Roethlisberger to anyone if you don't have anybody to replace him in mind.As to our future qb ( were it to come to that) if you finish with a bad enough record this season maybe he's there waiting for you in next year's draft? If you trade Ben early enough perhaps you can package a deal to insure that you can get a chance to draft a future star qb?
And no I don't want any parts of a Jason Cambell type qb. I'd go with Grabowski and Landry first.
I won't argue that point with you. Frankly, I've been "doomsday prepping" since 2011. Bring on 5-11. Rip the band-aid off. Get it over with. Everybody's number gets called eventually. It's happened with every great team. If this franchise has proven anything, it's that it's resilient. It rebuilds and bounces back like nobody else. I can handle 2-3 down years if it means an 8-9 year run on top, which I firmly believe will happen. Look at the trends. Pittsburgh's been the most successful team since the merger for a reason.Look sometimes you have to be really bad for a few years before you can be really good again. Maybe that's where things are going? But if you are that bad, don't build around an 11 year vet. That's all I'm saying.
I don't disagree with the premise, Zu. I think we agree more than we disagree on this topic. But you have to give me more than "Trade Ben and hope for the best." You need something more detailed and planned out than that.
You don't have to agree with me, but I do recomend it.
Array title="zulater has a reputation beyond repute">
First thanks for the respectful answer. But let me respectfully disagree with your last sentence. I don't, because I'm not interviewing to be Colbert's successor. Nor am I member of the working media, who would have some obligation to provide such an answer (perhaps?) upon laying out this premise. I'm just a guy on a message board who's pointing at the smoldering embers of what he believes could turn out to be a full fledged forest fire if the wind blows the wrong way.
There are posters on this board who could give you some names to target if you decide to move on from Ben, but my football knowledge is very myopic and Steeler-centric, so I'm not one of them.
At this point I think I'll retire from this thread, and possibly give consideration to retiring from the board? If my posting is so upsetting to people then I guess maybe I need to find a different outlet to voice my opinion's?
"A man's got to know his limitations."
Zu,So after two games you are just going to throw the season away? Let's see if the o-line can get it together and, Ben & WR's plus Heath Miller can turn this thing around. You want to get rid of Ben who by the way is the best QB we have had here since Bradshaw? I say put the ball in Ben's hands and, let the chips fall where they will. It would be insane to trade Ben but, hey everyone has their own thoughts about this. Ben makes up for alot of the short comings of the o-line makes plays out of nothing half of the time. Have some faith Zu!
I'm sure Zu would change his tune if the Steelers do turn it around. That's why he said at the END of the season. Not right now.
"Clear Eyes, Full Hearts, Can't Lose"~Rest In Peace HometownGal~
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I'm not initiating anymore negative threads or adding to others negative thoughts in any way except for on the game day threads. (maybe) From now on I'm going to be little Mary Sunshine. Apparently cheerleading is the only way a good Steeler fan is supposed to post.
"A man's got to know his limitations."
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Just remember folks it's me that's causing your aggravation, not the Steelers play.
"A man's got to know his limitations."
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Not to beat a dead horse, but it was suggested to me that Ben may not even be tradeable with his salary number as it is? Also the perception around the league might be that Ben is tough to coach, and no coach is going to endorse trading for a potential coach killer. And there's also a lot of thought that Ben's best days are behind him, that the high risk freewheeling style that worked for him so well for his first 9 seasons wont work anymore as a beat up 11 year veteran. And that Ben can't function properly in a normal offense.
It's not what I think, I think Ben is a very good quarterback from the pocket, I think he can excel in a structured offense that has surrounding talent. But the perception around the league seems to be gravitating away from that view. So trading him might prove easier said than done.
So in essence what I'm now saying is that hopefully this team doesn't need a complete reconstruction and we can retool this offense and get back on track next season, if not before.
"A man's got to know his limitations."
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