Trade Ben so we can go what 0-16?
Trade Ben so we can go what 0-16?
Array title="Craic has a reputation beyond repute">
It's funny to watch people react to a thread when they either haven't read the OP, or react to the OP without thinking about what was said.
I do, however, think Zu's dead wrong. This team isn't headed for a horrible time over the next 3-5 years (rest of Ben's career). Moye was a nice little surprise tonight (good to see him do that in the endzone) and we're getting our TE back in a couple games. We are weak at RT and at RB. Those need to be fixed. I think our RB blocking scheme is wrong as well, whatever it is we're using right now. But it isn't going to take blowing this team up in order to fix it.
So I see no reason for trading Ben away in order to let him finish his career with a better team. On the other hand, if, in a couple years, we have a QB that is solid as a backup, I wouldn't mind seeing a trade for a first round draft choice and a couple players, or a couple first round draft choices and a player (depending on who they are).
That's not what I saw out there tonight. Ben was throwing balls 10 yards over guys' heads all on his own. Pressure, no pressure, whatever, he was just winging it up there and nobody had a chance at it. I don't know whether that was his fault, or him being out of sync with the receivers, or what, but he seriously reminded me of Moonball Joe several times. The passing game was completely uninspired and nobody was executing. The line was the least of our problems.Originally Posted by steel9guy
See you Space Cowboy ...
Those who really want to trade Ben away are insane...lol.
Array title="zulater has a reputation beyond repute">
Really? Did you bother to read the OP?
Here's the jist of it since the meaning of it seems to have escaped you.
If this team is in fact as bad as it appears they are then you're looking at a 6-10 record or worse. This team doesn't appear to be a player or two away, they appear to be about 10 players away.This team is more than one draft away from being good again in my opinion. With that in mind do you rebuild around what will be an 11 year vet who probably wont have much left when you bring the over talent level back up to an acceptable rate? Or do you cash in that chip while it still might have some value, and hasten the rebuilding process with the value you gain in that trade?
"A man's got to know his limitations."
Array title="zulater has a reputation beyond repute">
A little more as to why it's not insane to consider trading Ben. The life preserver we're all looking at to save this season is a 9 year veteran tight end coming off a complete knee reconstruction. Our playmaking safety is 11 years into his career. Our other starting safety is just as old, and gets banged up 4 or 5 times a game. Our best defensive lineman ( Keisel) will probably be gone next year. There is no quick fix to save this team. A top ten draft pick wont be enough to turn it around. This team wont be a viable Super Bowl contender again in Ben's career.
Want a viable trading partner? I'll give you two without giving it much thought. The Bengals and the Texans. When both make early exits from the playoffs despite having exceptional overall talent they'll probably see that their respective qb's are what are holding them back. Ben has taken 3 teams to the Super Bowl. There is still tread on the tires if you put him at the wheel of the right vehicle. That vehicle isn't in Pittsburgh anymore though.If he stays in Pittsburgh his career will continue in it's downward spiral and you'll probably end up releasing him after next season for salary cap concerns. Better to trade him a year early than wait until there's no return value.
"A man's got to know his limitations."
Array title="zulater has a reputation beyond repute">
Offseason shopping list in no particular order.
1 or 2 offensive tackles. I see some hope with Adams, but not much with Gilbert. But neither are certain busts or players. If we're lucky one will be a viable starter going foward.
Eventual replacement for one or both * aging starting safeties. ( number dependent on Shamarko Thomas's development)
Big time Wide receiver. We got a bunch of 2's, 3's and 4's, you need that one go to guy that puts fear in the defense and takes the pressure of the rest of the group.
Inside linebacker to replace Foote.
Cornerback to replace Ike. Ike may still be a good player this year. But how many more years has he got left? Letting Keenan Lewis go was insane. And Gay is nothing more than a stopgap nickle back. So you need to add at least one more viable corner to the mix.
Replacement feature tight end for Heath Miller. Heath may make a full recovery this year, or maybe next. But even if he does he's on the back nine, and going foward you need to replace him soon.
Running back. Maybe Leveon is the answer? He'll get his chance soon, I'll guess we'll see?
But even more to the point who are your certainty's going forward? Who are the stud players for 2014 and beyond? Timmons? Even he's getting up there in years. Next year will be his 8th NFL season. Jarvis Jones maybe? Regardless, the point is this team seems to be more than one great draft away from being a Super Bowl contender in the remaining window of Big Ben's career.
"A man's got to know his limitations."
On top of that how much longer is Ben going to last playing on a horrible team? This line could get him hurt.
I'm not saying we should do it, but it's not an insane idea by any means. Not sure how I feel on it exactly, but it's worth thinking about.
"Clear Eyes, Full Hearts, Can't Lose"~Rest In Peace HometownGal~
Array title="zulater has a reputation beyond repute">
Yep. That's the point. I'm not trying to discredit Ben. I still think he's a franchise qb on the right team. But I don't think this can be the right team anymore. There's too many holes and not enough patches to fix them. By the time this team has a viable overall roster again Ben will need a walker to get to the huddle.
"A man's got to know his limitations."
Yeah really...it's a dumb comment. With the way teams can turn around in the NFL...would be real smart to trade away a top-5 QB for what? 2 first round picks? Because the Steelers are sooooooo good at drafting...
Lol...great idea...
So how exactly are we going to turn it around?
"Clear Eyes, Full Hearts, Can't Lose"~Rest In Peace HometownGal~
Array title="zulater has a reputation beyond repute">
Your's is a dumb response. Nothing more to add.
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Apparently just ride Ben to the grave without significantly improving the team around him. Because you know the status quo is really working out so well.
And look folks, I love Ben. I'd love to see them improve the team around him to the point that we could be viable contenders again. But I don't see it happening in the window that is his remaining career as a top tier qb. I hope I'm wrong and the necessary "tweaks" can be implemented to turn things around with Ben as the qb.
"A man's got to know his limitations."
Trade Ben...duh...lol
The first thing I do is evaluate Velasco and see if he can be an above serviceable center. After that I either keep him or draft a Center that can start and move Pouncey to guard. Cut all the dead weight. Extend Ben, extend Heath and evaluate where they are with the cap. Then work on something with the Tackles and D-Line.
Oh the irony...lol.Your's is a dumb response. Nothing more to add.
I wouldn't expect more from you.
Array title="zulater has a reputation beyond repute">
Ditto.
You got a way to turn things around in Ben's career span? I'm all ears.
And oh yeah, since this is directed to 86, let me put in the obligatory lol that come with all his posts. lol
"A man's got to know his limitations."
Edman Trade Ben? Have you lost your mind??? Every QB would struggle if they were on the steelers right now and, yes Rodgers, Manning, Brady and Brees would all struggle as well. You need time to throw the ball and, not rushing throws like last night. The WR's have not exactly been all that good either. As for Ben being a leader he said what a leader should say I need to play better not blaming others. Ben can't do it all! Much like the budweiser beer football commercial Leon can't do it all. I don't hear anybody saying crap when Ben runs around then throws a 50 yard TD. So chill.
Might as well trade Heath too. He's not getting any younger. There's no guarantee he'll play like the Heath of old. If Ben deserves better, then doesn't Heath as well?
You don't have to agree with me, but I do recomend it.
Array title="Seven has much to be proud of">
Lol this is hilarious.
"If you are holding on to something that you no longer need to hold on to, I encourage you to let go." - Rashard Mendenhall
Array title="zulater has a reputation beyond repute">
Heath doesn't get derided by the fans like Ben does after every loss. Also Heath's ability to succeed hasn't been impaired by substandard play around him like Ben's has. So it's not the same. Not that you really care, as your sole intent was to take a jab at me.
"A man's got to know his limitations."
Maybe I could just put the dopeysmiley in for you...better?
You must not have read the OP because he doesn't want to trade ben because of poor play. He is saying that since we suck and may suck awhile, trade Ben to a contender and get good value out of him and begin the inevitable rebuilding process a little sooner.
Not at all because of Ben's play.
"Clear Eyes, Full Hearts, Can't Lose"~Rest In Peace HometownGal~
Array title="zulater has a reputation beyond repute">
Or maybe you could just put me on ignore as I plan to do to you as soon as I post this reply.Maybe I could just put the dopey
"A man's got to know his limitations."
Array title="tube517 has a reputation beyond repute">
Lol
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Good with me Sonnie Boy. But I won't ignore you. I enjoy reading your drivel. It's entertaining in an "over reaction" kind of way!Or maybe you could just put me on ignore as I plan to do to you as soon as I post this reply.
Array title="zulater has a reputation beyond repute">
Hey douchebag, don't call me sonnyboy, because I sure as fuck aint your son, and I'm no man's boy since my father died. .Good with me Sonnie Boy. But I won't ignore you. I enjoy reading your drivel. It's entertaining in an "over reaction" kind of way!
mods, I'll edit when he does. I know Sonnyboy isn't a cuss word, but it's sure as hell a slur in the manner he used it. Talking down to me like I'm his fucking bitch.
"A man's got to know his limitations."
Array title="zulater has a reputation beyond repute">
Just for clarification. Ben is about my favorite Steelers in the last 20 years. Not so much on a personal level. Don't get me wrong I think he's a good guy who had some issues, but has grown out of them, for the most part. ( he could keep his injuries and illnesses a little more quite) but because I'm a football fan who enjoys outstanding qb play. And Ben has been and still is an outstanding qb. Having seen some great overall Steelers teams die on the vine because of inept qb play in the playoffs (94-7, 2001-2) I can't tell you how much I appreciate how much he's meant to this team. So I guess I can get a little thin skinned about all the criticism that Ben receives from the media and fans alike, especially when it's coming from Steelers fans. Among the things I've heard over the years is that Ben was carried by the running game and defense for the first two years of his career. This being supported by the small number of pass attempts he had those year relative to the league average. Anyway what those people don't recognize is that Ben did the majority of his passing at the beginning of the game, staking the Steelers to leads, and then allowing the running game and defense to finish it out. The myth that he inherited this world beating team also is at odds with reality.The team he inherited was coming off a 6-10 season, struggled mightily to put away a bad Raider team in the 04 season opener, and absolutely got clocked at Baltimore in the second game. In other word with ordinary qb play it wasn't going to be any sort of season to remember. Maybe an 8 or 9 win year was in store had Maddox kept the job.To anyone who watched those next 13 games in 2004 start to finish Ben was the catalyst. The straw that stirred the drink. 15-1 was because Ben changed the equation.
Fast forward to 2005 and people forget the only reason the Steelers didn't win the division that year was because Ben suffered a knee injury that kept him out of 3 games and then left him rusty when he returned for the first few games back. When Ben was fully healthy the Steelers were indeed as good as any team in the league. Then of course Ben put up a bad passer rating in Super Bowl XL, so of course the pundits discredited him for that win. Never mind that he was brilliant throughout the AFC playoffs, what did they think the Steelers got to Detroit by invitation? And beside Ben wasn't nearly as bad in the Super Bowl as his passer rating suggests. For one thing Hines Ward dropped a ball in the end zone when he was wide open on one play. That play alone would have move his passer rating up over 50 pts. But that aside Ben was tight that day and didn't throw the ball with his normal accuracy or confidence. On the one interception if he puts a little more air under the ball it's an easy touchdown. Ben makes that throw in his sleep on normal days, but he obviously felt the pressure a little. ( there's such a thing as a play being too wide open, this was a case in point) Anyway what the passing stats don't tell you is that Ben made the plays that had to be made at the end of the game to seal the victory. With his arm and legs he converted crucial third downs that enabled the Steelers to run out the clock and keep the Seahwaks offense on the sidelines. This is never noticed.
Moving on Ben's put up some great numbers and led the Steelers to some very good seasons. He should have been MVP in SB XLIII. Virtually any other qb in the league would have won the award with the same performance. Hell many a qb won the award playing significantly worse. ( in nasal whiny voice... "Eli's won the Super Bowl MVP twice, so he's a better qb than Ben") Shit like this gets to me.
Going forward of course Ben had his off the field issues where he was pummeled and convicted by the press, the NFL, and the public. Then he comes back plays a brilliant 12 game season and leads the Steelers to another Super Bowl. But of course he and the team came up short. And now a two time Super Bowl champion, 3 time AFC Champion, is considered barely above average, and somehow he's held to blame for virtually every sack and the lack of a Steelers running game? Look I know a qb has a lot in his control with pre-snap reads, finding his hot, and getting rid of the ball etc.. And there's no question that Ben holds onto the ball too long at times trying to make a play. But of course he often does make those plays and for the majority of his career the good has outweighed the bad to such an extent that few with a brain or football sense questioned his decision making in that sense. And besides I don't think many people outside of Pittsburgh truly appreciate how bad the pass blocking has been over the last few seasons. As I already mentioned I understand a qb has ways to make his o-line look better than it is, but when your pocket collapses before the end of your drop, when two of your linemen get beat clean off the snap, no pre snap read is going to save you every time. That's been Ben's world.
And now for the last few seasons the line has gotten even worse, the running game is virtually non- existent, his wide receivers ( since Ward left) are immature and selfish, and he lost his safety net, with Heath Miller's injury. So now Ben's a dope and/ or over the hill according to many. So again this pisses me off, and in frustration feeling fairly sure that Ben;s current circumstances are weighing him down there's a part of me who would love to see him put in a better overall quarterback environment so he could shove it squarely up his critics and naysayers collective asses.
So now you know the basis of this thread. Approve or not? I don't care, writing it out was cathartic. So no I don't really want Ben traded. Hopefully Heath Miller can stablize the offense and Ben can go on and lead the Steelers to a few more successful seasons before he moves on to Canton. Peace out!
"A man's got to know his limitations."
Monday nights game wasn't that much of a blow out. The game I watched could have went either way. All the talk of the bungholes being the team to beat this season, we hung with them pretty good until the end. We were a bad call, a fumble, and an interception from winning, then we wouldn't be having this conversation. Let's give these young player's a chance to get into the real game timing, the professional standard (not college) of football, and see what they pan out to. I agree we don't look real good right now, but it's only the 2nd game of the season. I'm one of those fans that believes every game is a must win ( only a 16 game season) especially division games, but I think most of us knew we weren't winning a SB this year. Tenn. game was disgraceful true, but I think we bounced back somewhat at cincy and came close to pulling it out. I think the Bear's game will tell us more of what this team is made of and we can start looking at what the season may end up being. I'm not a big Ben fan, but I don't think I'm ready to throw him away yet. I like our backups, but at this stage it's better to have the experience at QB. I still think we can win 6/7 games this year. Hopefully we will be the 'spoilers' for the bungholes when they come to the 'burgh. Or maybe the ratbirds. GO STEELERS
1. Far from a slur. Very far.
2. There is no intention of using it as a slur...I've never heard of such a thing...LOL
3. Not talking down to anyone...however you do it on a daily basis so...it's okay then...
4. Not the place to discuss.
5. I thought you were ignoring me?
6.
Array title="zulater has a reputation beyond repute">
1. Far from a slur. Very far.
2. There is no intention of using it as a slur...I've never heard of such a thing...LOL
3. Not talking down to anyone...however you do it on a daily basis so...it's okay then...
4. Not the place to discuss.
5. I thought you were ignoring me?
6.
When you have some on ignore there's a box with the option to view an individual post. Since I was interested in how you would respond to my post I chose to view this particular post.
As far as your claim that Sonny Boy wasn't used in a derogatory manner, tell you what. Go to your nearest bar, find a dude you don't know, get in a heated discussion with him, ( sports, politics, religion, whatever,) call him "Sonny Boy" at some point in the argument and see if you don't get punched in the face.
As to me speaking down to anyone, I give tit for tat. I rarely if ever fire the opening salvo. You can disagree with me my all you want, but if you marginalize my view, and get personal about it while doing so I'll come back the same.
"A man's got to know his limitations."
Getting rid of Ben is not the answer, no matter how you spin it.
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