Originally Posted by LLT
you are attending classes in the steeldawg school of argumentism ...... seems you have been paying close attention in the class room
you are attending classes in the steeldawg school of argumentism ...... seems you have been paying close attention in the class room
Array title="LLT has a reputation beyond repute">
Only class in history in which a passing grade gets you demoted a full year of study.you are attending classes in the steeldawg school of argumentism ...... seems you have been paying close attention in the class room
"I believe the game is designed to reward the ones who hit the hardest. If you can't take it, you shouldn't play"
-- Jack Lambert --
Array title="Craic has a reputation beyond repute">
I read "myopic" in a forum not focused on writing or English syntax . . .
LOL, bash dwyer with no facts!!!??? Appreciate what abilities, cant stay on the field, poor vision, head of the 26th ranked rushing attack in the nfl, going into his 4th year still has 774yds total and 2 tds, my goodness youre right!!! He has proven that he can be an effective back in this league I cant believe he has reached these stats in just 3 years. If I have to appreciate those abilities can we put mendy in the hall of fame?
156 carries 623 yards ...4.0 ypc ... had he gotten the customary 275-300 carries he would have easily topped the 1,000 barrier with a couple hundred yards to spare all the while playing behind a line that featured some pretty dubious configurations ...
- - - Updated - - -
now all the sudden play calling and who the coaching staff has on the field becomes Dwyer's fault .... gotcha
Mendy only got that many carries once in his 3 healthy seasons. Second you cant give dwyer that many carries on a consistent basis he cant handle it hes not a work horse. Issac redman averages 4.2 ypc for his career but we are not about to start him either. If try to give either of these backs 300 carries my guess is that not only will they average less than 4.0 ypc they wouldn't last an entire season. Hell dwyer couldn't make it through last season with only 156 carries.
Redman ran behind that same shitty line last year as Dwyer ... Redman could only muster 3.7 YPC and with a career average of 4.2 that fact should speak volumes of what the real issue was ... I trust you understand what I am saying without me coming right out and saying it
as a side note in 5 NFL seasons Mendy only eclipsed 4 ypc twice and every year with exception to his rookie year and last year he had at the very min. nearly 100 more carries than Dwyer and 1 of those 3 seasons he doubled Dwyers carries with less than double the output
O-line was factor last season but even with a great o-line these guys are not 300 carry backs and neither is a three down back, which the steelers are looking for. The reason we had to keep rotating backs last season is in order for dwyer to be effective he has to be completely fresh. The point is even in the seasons where redman averaged over 4.0yds per carry do not translate into him being a starting a running back who gets 300 carries.
- - - Updated - - -
What stands out more too me is the fact that dwyer averages less than 10 carries per game in games that he has played.
I think that is subjective thinking Redman had 281 carries in 2005 as a collegiate ( in 12 games) and rushed for 1500 + yards yes not the NFL but he still toted the rock a whole bunch and was effective doing so yes the NFL is another monster than a low tier college program but carries are carries ... my point being claiming he can not is not the same as actually not being capable of doing it ...
until it is actually asked of him we just do not know for certain what he can / can not do ....
Dwyers issue is not being in the shape to handle the bulk of the carries , granted it is a flaw but one year to the next things change if he is in shape he will be a worthy opponent and a challenge for anyone on the roster to win the starting job over him ...
as I see it he is the man to beat if you want to start here , however if he does not win the starting job he could be out of work because Redman gives you the better short yardage option and Dwyer is the most similar to Bell ( a reason I would keep them both on the roster ) but that normally will get you cut from this team where they like having variety over similarities for whatever reason ...
It is odd that Dwyer is in a feast or famine situation. He could be the starter or cut from the team. That really sucks, but totally possible.
"Clear Eyes, Full Hearts, Can't Lose"~Rest In Peace HometownGal~
yes it does !
I am all for having the " change of pace back " but I also come from the camp of having my primary backup being as similar to my starter as possible that way if the starter goes down my game plan does not change or is forcibly altered to maximize the new addition to the lineups abilities , I like to put players in the best possible scenario to succeed ( so play to their strengths ) Dwyer and Bell have similar skill sets , whereas Redman , Batch , Howling are all very different ...in a perfect world Batch is the odd man out but I am not sure the team looks at it in the same light
Im confident that the team redman is on knows if he is capable of toting the rock 300 times against nfl defense, dwyer also. These coaches see these guys all the time so to say they don't know if these guys can carry the ball 300 times a season isn't accurate. If the steelers thought dwyer could carry the rock 300 times at 4.0 ypc do you think they would of took a second round back ,changed the running scheme, tried to trade a 23 year old dwyer in the offseason, and essentially put him on the bubble to make the roster?
20 times ?
guessing but it has to be reasonably close to 20 times you want to directly correlate draft position into superior talent and guaranteed starting role and nothing could be further from the truth ....
if history is any indicator of future results there is a larger chance based on percentages that Bell will not be the starter than him being the starter draft position has NOTHING to do with whom they award the job to in Pittsburgh History is an indicator of that ......
get back to me when you have something new please because this job will not be won by draft position it will be won by performance during training camp and preseason
Then why not take a back in the 12th round or an undrafted guy? Why take a second rounder and paying him as such if you don't plan on him being your starter.
Because that's what it is. A PLAN.
Does every plan or thought you have work? Ideally yeah we needed a new back to possibly become the work horse. That doesn't mean that (what we've been trying to say for days) he is going to be GIVEN the job. He still has to earn it.
That is the only point I have been trying to make and you can have your opinion about Bell but how can you not admit he still has to earn the job?
"Clear Eyes, Full Hearts, Can't Lose"~Rest In Peace HometownGal~
All he has to do to earn the job is learn the offense we drafted him to start!!!!! Its silly to say that an undrafted guy and a second round pick would come in on the same footing to start for an nfl team. They scout these guys for a reason and they're selected in in certain rounds for a reason, training camp is not the ultimate measuring stick to wether a guy starts. We drafted a back not only to start but for the future, we wouldn't take a second round pick who we thought couldn't beat out dwyer and well end up a backup.
1) perhaps because there is no longer 12 rounds in the draft ?
2) you are always looking to improve with guys from the draft , that does not always mean you hit the jackpot with your selections earlier in this thread I named multiple STEELER 2nd round picks that where thought to be upgrades that failed to be in the league by the time the second contract came around and never made any impact on the game in a Steeler ( or any other ) uniform ...
draft status is only as good as your evaluations prior to drafting them and nobody has a crystal ball into what kind of player they evolve into once they get to the NFL level where every player is bigger , stronger , and faster than the level before ....
We drafted Mendenhall in the first round and he could not supplant Willie Parker an UN drafted player in Mendys rookie year ...showing how short sighted your comments really are in terms to draft status handing a job over on a silver platter to a rookie if he is a first couple round guy ....
Im not saying bell will be the greatest running back or making any predictions on the outcome of his career, Im saying the steelers drafted him to start, they are not looking for dwyer to be the starter that is obvious.
expectations do not equate to results .
the job will have to be won between the white lines period
Maybe he will only be a backup for one year. Gain experience and then start next season! Just because we drafted a guy in the second round does not mean he will start. The steelers haven't had a rookie RB start in like 40 years.
- - - Updated - - -
Yes it is obvious. Doesn't mean it will work out that way. Of course they want Bell to start but he still has to prove he is capable. It's that simple.
Maybe it won't take long to prove but he still has to prove it.
"Clear Eyes, Full Hearts, Can't Lose"~Rest In Peace HometownGal~
Array title="Count Steeler has a reputation beyond repute">
So when will Landry be starting? We wasted a 4th round pick on a backup QB? FIRE Colbert! Should have just picked up a UDFA for backup. Since we drafted him, he must be starting soon.
^^^^ That is the logic you are touting. ^^^^
This. As used earlier we drafted Ben with the 11th OVERALL pick and he wasn't handed the job year one. And yes we drafted him to become our starter. EVENTUALLY.
We still gave the job to Tommy Maddox who was never anything more then average and that may be pushing it.
Obviously QB and RB are different positions but the point is where you are drafted and the value the team places on you only matters a little. It is what you prove on the field that counts.
"Clear Eyes, Full Hearts, Can't Lose"~Rest In Peace HometownGal~
Really you want another year of the dwyer redman attack? Im notsaying just cause we took him in the second round he will start, what I am saying because dwyer is young, because we tried to trade him, because we changed the scheme to the same scheme bell runs, because we took a second round rb with a young back already on the roster. It makes no sense to think the steelers believe that dwyer is a starter. Bell will be the starter you can take that to the bank.
- - - Updated - - -
No we had to take a talented back up because ben has only lasted one full season. Also big difference between 2nd round picks and 4th round.
They shouldn't believe anything yet!
This bugs me because if that is true you will come say I told you so which is totally not my point. If Bell proves to be the starter it'll actually make my point which is he earned the job over the other guys. Not because of anything else you just said because all that should matter now is this training camp and preseason.
"Clear Eyes, Full Hearts, Can't Lose"~Rest In Peace HometownGal~
an even larger difference between Willie Parker UDFA pickup and First round pick Rashard Mendenhall .... but Parker won the Job in Mendenhall's rookie year ...just sayin
Qb is a monster difference from rb plus he was coming in behind a guy who was an established starter. dwyer is not an established starter he has one 181 carries for his career. also with ben I think its obvious he should of been starting and his first round talent was far superior to tommy Maddox even though he wasn't acclimated to the nfl game.
Maddox was 6-10 the prior year .....
Yet, he didn't start.
I don't see how Maddox was an established starter? We actually may be getting away from the point because you are right QB and RB are very different and I noted that in my post but I was using the example of where you are drafted doesn't matter. Like you said Ben's talent was superior to Maddox even as a rookie. Just like you say Bell's is to Dwyer (which I do hope is true). Yet the more experienced guy started.
"Clear Eyes, Full Hearts, Can't Lose"~Rest In Peace HometownGal~
again willie parker establishe starter, also mendy was still getting carries his rookie year till he got hurt and then took the starting job next season. you guys are acting like dwyer has been a starting back the only reason he even played last year was because of injury bell is coming into a situation where there is no starter to surpass, if dwyer was a starting caliber back there would have been no reason to get bell, dwyer is young plenty of career to be made the back for the future. Im not basing bell starting on his draft position, Im basing it on the fact that the steelers don't believe in jonathan dwyer which is why we draft a 2nd round back.
19 attempts his rookie year !
10 vs Houston week 1 ( 2.8 YPC )
0 vs the Eagles week 2 ( no rushing attempts )
9 vs the Ravens week 3 ( 3.1 YPC )
out for the season hardly a large enough sample to call a pattern
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
