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Thread: Bush Advisor: Hastings Crash ‘Consistent With a Car Cyberattack’

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    Bush Advisor: Hastings Crash ‘Consistent With a Car Cyberattack’

    Tinfoil hats on! I've been following this story for a while and it seems plausible. The technology is there and Hastings was a pretty controversial journalist.

    A former cybersecurity advisor to President George W. Bush says a sophisticated computer hack could have been the cause of the automobile accident that claimed the life of journalist Michael Hastings last week in Los Angeles.

    Richard Clarke, a State Department official-turned-special advisor to several United States presidents, said the early morning auto crash last Tuesday was "consistent with a car cyberattack,” raising new questions about the death of the award-winning journalist.
    http://rt.com/usa/michael-hastings-cyber-car-218/

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    Re: Bush Advisor: Hastings Crash ‘Consistent With a Car Cyberattack’

    Journalist Michael Hastings sent chilling email to colleagues before death

    Mere hours before the fiery car crash that took his life, journalist Michael Hastings sent an email to friends and colleagues urging them to get legal counsel if they were approached by federal authorities.

    “Hey [redacted] the Feds are interviewing my 'close friends and associates,'" read the message dated June 17 at 12:56 p.m. from Hastings to editors at the website BuzzFeed, where he worked.

    "Perhaps if the authorities arrive 'BuzzFeed GQ', er HQ, may be wise to immediately request legal counsel before any conversations or interviews about our news-gathering practices or related journalism issues.”..........


    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/06/24...#ixzz2XGA8yHL9



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    Re: Bush Advisor: Hastings Crash ‘Consistent With a Car Cyberattack’

    Engineers have been talking about this threat for some time. Doesn't prove Hastings was hacked, but goddamn... what a way to kill someone.


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    Re: Bush Advisor: Hastings Crash ‘Consistent With a Car Cyberattack’



    Give a lib a fish--he eats for a day

    Teach a lib to fish--he is back the next day asking for more free fish.

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    Re: Bush Advisor: Hastings Crash ‘Consistent With a Car Cyberattack’



    I never understood the allure of conspiracy theories.
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

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    Re: Bush Advisor: Hastings Crash ‘Consistent With a Car Cyberattack’

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post


    I never understood the allure of conspiracy theories.
    A conspiracy, by definition, is just a plot to commit a crime. Any computer can be hacked, and now that cars have computers, cars can be hacked. So technically, this doesn't even need to be a conspiracy theory when one person with a background in electrical engineering could possibly pull something like this off by himself. This isn't something far-fetched like computer-synchronized explosives lining the floors of the WTC.

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    Re: Bush Advisor: Hastings Crash ‘Consistent With a Car Cyberattack’

    Looking into this, It's completely impractical. All these papers said is that you can steal a car by hacking it. It didn't say anything about remotely taking control of a car away from a driver. And seriously... how could such a thing be done? There aren't any direct inputs from OBD to the steering, accelerator or brakes.
    You can remotely do stuff like pop door locks, remote start, and disable a steering wheel lock, but you can't hack a car and remotely control it like James freakin' Bond.
    /too much kool- aid

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by The Patriot View Post
    A conspiracy, by definition, is just a plot to commit a crime. Any computer can be hacked, and now that cars have computers, cars can be hacked. So technically, this doesn't even need to be a conspiracy theory when one person with a background in electrical engineering could possibly pull something like this off by himself. This isn't something far-fetched like computer-synchronized explosives lining the floors of the WTC.
    A whole lot more farfetched than you'd think. Having a computer in something doesn't give it God- like powers over all the systems.
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

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    Re: Bush Advisor: Hastings Crash ‘Consistent With a Car Cyberattack’

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    Looking into this, It's completely impractical. All these papers said is that you can steal a car by hacking it. It didn't say anything about remotely taking control of a car away from a driver. And seriously... how could such a thing be done? There aren't any direct inputs from OBD to the steering, accelerator or brakes.
    You can remotely do stuff like pop door locks, remote start, and disable a steering wheel lock, but you can't hack a car and remotely control it like James freakin' Bond.
    /too much kool- aid

    - - - Updated - - -



    A whole lot more farfetched than you'd think. Having a computer in something doesn't give it God- like powers over all the systems.
    I would normally agree that it was farfetched. But this is a well-known federal cybersecurity expert making the claim. He's an established, credible source.

    It's also important to note that he didn't say WHO did it. It could have been anyone...paranoia would lead the tinfoil hat crowd to assume it must have been Obama, but anyone could have an incentive to target Hastings, even someone as mundane as an angry ex.

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    Re: Bush Advisor: Hastings Crash ‘Consistent With a Car Cyberattack’

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfather View Post
    I would normally agree that it was farfetched. But this is a well-known federal cybersecurity expert making the claim. He's an established, credible source.

    It's also important to note that he didn't say WHO did it. It could have been anyone...paranoia would lead the tinfoil hat crowd to assume it must have been Obama, but anyone could have an incentive to target Hastings, even someone as mundane as an angry ex.
    His "claim" is merely a citation of a couple of research papers that say cars can be stolen because they lack sufficient protection. It's not really "consistent" at all. The computer can't work the steering, throttle or brakes.
    If he were to claim that the 9/11 hijackings were "consistent" with a cyber attack, he'd actually have more of a legit claim. They have also demonstrated similar weaknesses, and airplane controls (unlike cars) are actually tied to the computers.
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

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    Re: Bush Advisor: Hastings Crash ‘Consistent With a Car Cyberattack’

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    Looking into this, It's completely impractical. All these papers said is that you can steal a car by hacking it. It didn't say anything about remotely taking control of a car away from a driver. And seriously... how could such a thing be done? There aren't any direct inputs from OBD to the steering, accelerator or brakes.
    You can remotely do stuff like pop door locks, remote start, and disable a steering wheel lock, but you can't hack a car and remotely control it like James freakin' Bond.
    /too much kool- aid

    - - - Updated - - -


    A whole lot more farfetched than you'd think. Having a computer in something doesn't give it God- like powers over all the systems.
    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    His "claim" is merely a citation of a couple of research papers that say cars can be stolen because they lack sufficient protection. It's not really "consistent" at all. The computer can't work the steering, throttle or brakes.
    If he were to claim that the 9/11 hijackings were "consistent" with a cyber attack, he'd actually have more of a legit claim. They have also demonstrated similar weaknesses, and airplane controls (unlike cars) are actually tied to the computers.
    Hate to disagree with you this adamantly, Slash, but you're wrong. Cruise control on most modern cars (a 2013 model Mercedes in this instance) is a computer receiving input from the speedometer and telling the throttle to speed up or slow down. All computers do is respond to a "yes" or "no" binary code (0100101101 etc). All a hacker does is feed a computer false information, so if a hacker wanted to manipulate a car's throttle on cruise control, he could feed the car's computer false information to make the car accelerate to a dangerous speed. That's one way to do it.

    Another way is what Israel (allegedly) did to Iran's nuclear facilities. A virus called Stuxnet caused some moving components in their computerized machinery to move at irregular speeds which caused the machinery to break down over time. If it can be done to a top secret nuclear facility, it can be done to a car.

    I wish this story wasn't attached to the theory that Michael Hastings was murdered, because while the theory is speculation, the potential to hack cars is fact, and it's a real threat. Imagine if China or Russia could hack a car driving in the United States! It's more fact than fiction.

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    Re: Bush Advisor: Hastings Crash ‘Consistent With a Car Cyberattack’

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    His "claim" is merely a citation of a couple of research papers that say cars can be stolen because they lack sufficient protection. It's not really "consistent" at all. The computer can't work the steering, throttle or brakes.
    If he were to claim that the 9/11 hijackings were "consistent" with a cyber attack, he'd actually have more of a legit claim. They have also demonstrated similar weaknesses, and airplane controls (unlike cars) are actually tied to the computers.
    A cars computer also controls the fuel and spark. Overload the fuel and spark it at the right time and boom.


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    Re: Bush Advisor: Hastings Crash ‘Consistent With a Car Cyberattack’

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach1 View Post
    A cars computer also controls the fuel and spark. Overload the fuel and spark it at the right time and

    TOAST.
    Fixed if for ya.
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    Re: Bush Advisor: Hastings Crash ‘Consistent With a Car Cyberattack’

    Quote Originally Posted by The Patriot View Post
    Hate to disagree with you this adamantly, Slash, but you're wrong. Cruise control on most modern cars (a 2013 model Mercedes in this instance) is a computer receiving input from the speedometer and telling the throttle to speed up or slow down. All computers do is respond to a "yes" or "no" binary code (0100101101 etc). All a hacker does is feed a computer false information, so if a hacker wanted to manipulate a car's throttle on cruise control, he could feed the car's computer false information to make the car accelerate to a dangerous speed. That's one way to do it.

    Another way is what Israel (allegedly) did to Iran's nuclear facilities. A virus called Stuxnet caused some moving components in their computerized machinery to move at irregular speeds which caused the machinery to break down over time. If it can be done to a top secret nuclear facility, it can be done to a car.

    I wish this story wasn't attached to the theory that Michael Hastings was murdered, because while the theory is speculation, the potential to hack cars is fact, and it's a real threat. Imagine if China or Russia could hack a car driving in the United States! It's more fact than fiction.
    I work on this crap for a living, and I can tell by your explanation that you haven't the foggiest idea what you're talking about.
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    Re: Bush Advisor: Hastings Crash ‘Consistent With a Car Cyberattack’

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    I work on this crap for a living, and I can tell by your explanation that you haven't the foggiest idea what you're talking about.
    Would you care to elaborate.

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    Re: Bush Advisor: Hastings Crash ‘Consistent With a Car Cyberattack’

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach1 View Post
    A cars computer also controls the fuel and spark. Overload the fuel and spark it at the right time and boom.
    I'd love to see a Mythbusters special episode on "crazy nonsense people spout on the internet".

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Patriot View Post
    Would you care to elaborate.
    I'm an avionics technician for a military defense contractor and my area of expertise is digital processors. I know more about "binary" than most.
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    Re: Bush Advisor: Hastings Crash ‘Consistent With a Car Cyberattack’

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    I work on this crap for a living, and I can tell by your explanation that you haven't the foggiest idea what you're talking about.
    Not saying I buy the story, but I think you're underestimating the technology that is out there. I don't work on technical equipment or electronics for a living, but I do know the government often has access to stuff that the public doesn't - sometimes years in advance. I wouldn't rule this conspiracy theory out based on technological grounds.
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    Re: Bush Advisor: Hastings Crash ‘Consistent With a Car Cyberattack’

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    I'm an avionics technician for a military defense contractor and my area of expertise is digital processors. I know more about "binary" than most.
    Well, who better to explain why cars are invulnerable to being hacked.

    Edit: Excuse me, throttles. I think you already acknowledged some systems can be hacked.

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    Re: Bush Advisor: Hastings Crash ‘Consistent With a Car Cyberattack’

    Quote Originally Posted by Seven View Post
    Not saying I buy the story, but I think you're underestimating the technology that is out there. I don't work on technical equipment or electronics for a living, but I do know the government often has access to stuff that the public doesn't - sometimes years in advance. I wouldn't rule this conspiracy theory out based on technological grounds.
    It's not even a "story". It's a fallacy mentioned in passing that a bunch of people who don't know what they're talking about are trying to *make* into a story.
    A computer, no matter how intricate, can only interface with it's associated systems through the means with which it has been provided. Your car's OBD system doesn't have a gas pedal, or a brake pedal, or a steering wheel. It's not a Radio Shack RC buggy.
    Yeah, there's a cruise control, but it's disassociated. It can report a fault, but the OBD doesn't direct it.
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    Re: Bush Advisor: Hastings Crash ‘Consistent With a Car Cyberattack’

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    It's not even a "story". It's a fallacy mentioned in passing that a bunch of people who don't know what they're talking about are trying to *make* into a story.
    A computer, no matter how intricate, can only interface with it's associated systems through the means with which it has been provided. Your car's OBD system doesn't have a gas pedal, or a brake pedal, or a steering wheel. It's not a Radio Shack RC buggy.
    Yeah, there's a cruise control, but it's disassociated. It can report a fault, but the OBD doesn't direct it.
    That's assuming the car is in standard operating conditions. If someone has the opportunity to modify the vehicle, though, doesn't that pretty much open up endless possibilities?
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    Re: Bush Advisor: Hastings Crash ‘Consistent With a Car Cyberattack’

    I'd love to see a Mythbusters special episode on "crazy nonsense people spout on the internet".
    So your saying the computer does not control the flow of fuel or the timing of the spark?

    Thats a new one to me since I can hook up a programer to my truck and adjust both. huh who'd a thunk


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    Re: Bush Advisor: Hastings Crash ‘Consistent With a Car Cyberattack’

    Quote Originally Posted by The Patriot View Post
    Well, who better to explain why cars are invulnerable to being hacked.

    Edit: Excuse me, throttles. I think you already acknowledged some systems can be hacked.
    They're not "invulnerable" and I never claimed they were. They're just incapable of being hacked in *this* way. Probably some day they will be, but they're not now.
    Maybe someday your microwave will be "hackable" in such a way that somebody can make it grow legs and try to kill you, but the capability isn't there now.
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    Re: Bush Advisor: Hastings Crash ‘Consistent With a Car Cyberattack’

    Even something as simple as a mechanism to cut the breaks remotely would have the desired effect, no?
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    Re: Bush Advisor: Hastings Crash ‘Consistent With a Car Cyberattack’

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    It's not even a "story". It's a fallacy mentioned in passing that a bunch of people who don't know what they're talking about are trying to *make* into a story.
    A computer, no matter how intricate, can only interface with it's associated systems through the means with which it has been provided. Your car's OBD system doesn't have a gas pedal, or a brake pedal, or a steering wheel. It's not a Radio Shack RC buggy.
    Yeah, there's a cruise control, but it's disassociated. It can report a fault, but the OBD doesn't direct it.
    What controls cruise control? And from where does it receive information?

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    Re: Bush Advisor: Hastings Crash ‘Consistent With a Car Cyberattack’

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach1 View Post
    So your saying the computer does not control the flow of fuel or the timing of the spark?
    see... this is what I'm talking about.
    It does both. But you don't know enough about it to realize that it can't make a car explode no matter what erroneous data you feed it. If you had any knowledge of how electronic ignition, fuel injection, or even just internal combustion engines work, you would realize how foolish that sounds.
    If MythBusters ever had a "ridiculous shit somebody said on the internet" episode, it would clear up a lot of silliness.
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    Re: Bush Advisor: Hastings Crash ‘Consistent With a Car Cyberattack’

    I don't understand the hostility here to the mere suggestion that cars can be hacked, especially in a world that's becoming increasingly digital. I'm not claiming to be a mechanic or an engineer here, but I'm also not the one making the diagnosis. This is a former Pentagon employee and Bush adviser, and engineers have been discussing this possibility long before the Hastings crash.

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    Re: Bush Advisor: Hastings Crash ‘Consistent With a Car Cyberattack’

    Quote Originally Posted by The Patriot View Post
    What controls cruise control? And from where does it receive information?
    Don't you know? Or is this a rhetorical question?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by The Patriot View Post
    I don't understand the hostility here to the mere suggestion that cars can be hacked, especially in a world that's becoming increasingly digital. I'm not claiming to be a mechanic or an engineer here, but I'm also not the one making the diagnosis. This is a former Pentagon employee and Bush adviser, and engineers have been discussing this possibility long before the Hastings crash.
    This is from some dude who used to work in the State Department, and the reason for the hostility is because you're discussing it with a guy who happens to *be* a mechanic/ engineer and what you're proposing is flat-out wrong.
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

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    Re: Bush Advisor: Hastings Crash ‘Consistent With a Car Cyberattack’

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    Don't you know? Or is this a rhetorical question?
    No, I've already said I'm not an expert on cars. I assumed that it is some type of computer.

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    Re: Bush Advisor: Hastings Crash ‘Consistent With a Car Cyberattack’

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    see... this is what I'm talking about.
    It does both. But you don't know enough about it to realize that it can't make a car explode no matter what erroneous data you feed it. If you had any knowledge of how electronic ignition, fuel injection, or even just internal combustion engines work, you would realize how foolish that sounds.
    If MythBusters ever had a "ridiculous shit somebody said on the internet" episode, it would clear up a lot of silliness.
    Slash, I think everyone here are asking you legitimate questions without any malice intended based on your knowledge of the subject. I don't think anyone is sounding foolish because no one is suggesting anything, we're just asking. Can't expect everyone to know as much as you do about your profession.
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    Re: Bush Advisor: Hastings Crash ‘Consistent With a Car Cyberattack’

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    see... this is what I'm talking about.
    It does both. But you don't know enough about it to realize that it can't make a car explode no matter what erroneous data you feed it. If you had any knowledge of how electronic ignition, fuel injection, or even just internal combustion engines work, you would realize how foolish that sounds.
    If MythBusters ever had a "ridiculous shit somebody said on the internet" episode, it would clear up a lot of silliness.
    I know how engines work, I've built many of them in my time. IF they can be hacked to sense a wreck MAYBE they can be programed to spurt fuel at that moment IF a fuel line/injector burst or whatever and start a fire.

    I know it's a lot of if and maybes but thats what I was getting at anyways.


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    Re: Bush Advisor: Hastings Crash ‘Consistent With a Car Cyberattack’

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    Don't you know? Or is this a rhetorical question?

    - - - Updated - - -


    This is from some dude who used to work in the State Department, and the reason for the hostility is because you're discussing it with a guy who happens to *be* a mechanic/ engineer and what you're proposing is flat-out wrong.
    I recognize that. That's why I'm asking *you* why the computers in cars can't be hacked.

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