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Thread: NSA Orders Phone Records of Millions Collected

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    Smashmouth Posting Array title="Seven has much to be proud of"> Seven's Avatar

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    NSA Orders Phone Records of Millions Collected

    The National Security Agency is currently collecting the telephone records of millions of US customers of Verizon, one of America's largest telecoms providers, under a top secret court order issued in April.

    The order, a copy of which has been obtained by the Guardian, requires Verizon on an "ongoing daily basis" the NSA information on all telephone calls in it's system, both within the US and between the US and other countries.

    The document shows for the first time that under the Obama administration the communication records of millions of US citizens are being collected indiscriminately and in bulk – regardless of whether they are suspected of any wrongdoing...
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/06/nsa-phone-records-verizon-court-order

    Sigh...
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    Re: NSA Orders Phone Records of Millions Collected

    So........... what's the problem?

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    Re: NSA Orders Phone Records of Millions Collected

    Quote Originally Posted by silver & black View Post
    So........... what's the problem?
    Why does the government need millions of specifics about who US citizens are calling? It's just another invasion of privacy. I'm not doing anything wrong, am not linked to terrorists and have no phone activity that the government should be interested in. It would be one thing if they were looking into phone records of Tsarnaev pals. But specific data on millions of Verizon customers? Why? Why does the NSA need that information? I really just want to know why. And the White House and NSA have both said "no comment" as has Verizon. What gives?
    "If you are holding on to something that you no longer need to hold on to, I encourage you to let go." - Rashard Mendenhall

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    Re: NSA Orders Phone Records of Millions Collected

    Wow, Big Brother indeed.
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

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    Re: NSA Orders Phone Records of Millions Collected

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_Data_Center

    This has been going on for a long, long time. Verizon isn't the only carrier and this isn't the first time, it's just the first time we have confirmation. God help whoever spilled the beans to the Guardian; "protection of sources" doesn't carry the same weight it used to.
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

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    Re: NSA Orders Phone Records of Millions Collected

    Quote Originally Posted by Seven View Post
    Why does the government need millions of specifics about who US citizens are calling? It's just another invasion of privacy. I'm not doing anything wrong, am not linked to terrorists and have no phone activity that the government should be interested in. It would be one thing if they were looking into phone records of Tsarnaev pals. But specific data on millions of Verizon customers? Why? Why does the NSA need that information? I really just want to know why. And the White House and NSA have both said "no comment" as has Verizon. What gives?
    I guess my attempt at sarcasm didn't translate.

    I agree with you.

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    Quest For Seven Array title="Mach1 has a reputation beyond repute"> Mach1's Avatar

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    Re: NSA Orders Phone Records of Millions Collected

    They needed something to fill up that new data mining building in Utah.

    New Details on NSA’s ‘Spy Center’ and Secrets From Domestic Eavesdropping Operation ‘Stellar Wind’

    In the heart of Utah’s desert, the National Security Agency is well underway on a project that has been called the nation’s largest, most expensive cyber-security project. Naturally, almost all details about the building’s soon-to-be inner activities are highly classified and no one is talking — officials in Bluffdale where it is being built and the nearby Salt Lake City are kept in the dark. Still, Wired’s Threat Level has gotten some details on the building and provides analysis on some of its expected activity.

    Wired describes that the building is ironically and “blandly” named the Utah Data Center. When completed in Sept. 2013 it will house four 25,000 square foot halls of servers, among other things. Wired states that the cost for the project is estimated at $2 billion.

    Here’s some of the data center’s purpose:

    Flowing through its servers and routers and stored in near-bottomless databases will be all forms of communication, including the complete contents of private emails, cell phone calls, and Google searches, as well as all sorts of personal data trails—parking receipts, travel itineraries, bookstore purchases, and other digital “pocket litter.”


    Wired reports that the data center will store trillions of “words and thoughts and whispers” swirling on the Web. It states that “[to] those on the inside, the old adage that NSA stands for Never Say Anything applies more than ever.” In addition to public website data storage, Wired reports that it will seek out and house information on the “deep web
    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2012...-stellar-wind/


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    Re: NSA Orders Phone Records of Millions Collected

    Yeah, nobody saw this one coming. Thanks a million, Dubya.








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    Re: NSA Orders Phone Records of Millions Collected

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/c...,5070499.story

    Obama administration defends massive phone record collection
    It's officially- official.
    It's been going on for 7 years now, and then there's this:
    Verizon has declined to comment. It remains unclear whether the practice extends to other carriers, though several security experts and at least one U.S. lawmaker said that was likely.

    AT&T Inc declined to comment. Representatives for other major carriers, including Sprint Nextel Corp and T-Mobile, could not be immediately reached or had no immediate comment.
    A comprehensive datamining of just one carrier would make absolutely no sense.

    I don't hate to say "I told ya so", but I do hate when I have to.
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    Re: NSA Orders Phone Records of Millions Collected

    Um, one thing that we should remember . . . there is no guarantee of "privacy" for who you call, how long you call, how frequently you call, etc. etc. That information is all available to a third party immediately . . . your phone company. As such, there are no privacy issues protecting that information from the government. The conversations themselves, the contents of the messages, etc., are a different story.


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    Re: NSA Orders Phone Records of Millions Collected

    Police Given Direct Line To Cell Phone Searches

    DALLAS (CBSDFW.COM) – Think about all the personal information we keep in our cell phones: It’s something to consider after the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 7th Circuit ruled it is now legal for police to search cell phones without a warrant.

    Former Dallas FBI Agent Danny Defenbaugh said the ruling gives law enforcement a leg up. “I think not only will it help them, but it could be life saving,” said the former Special Agent, who was based in Dallas.

    The decision stems from an Indiana case where police arrested a man for dealing drugs. An officer searched the suspect’s cell phone without warrant.

    The judge in the appeal case, Judge Richard Posner, agreed that the officer had to search the phone immediately or risk losing valuable evidence. Judge Posner ruled it was a matter of urgency, arguing it was possible for an accomplice to wipe the phone clean using a computer or other remote device.

    Defenbaugh says the ruling takes into account exigent or time-sensitive circumstances that could be life saving in more urgent cases, such as child abduction. ”If the child is alive and you’re only minutes behind, that could be critical to recovering that child alive,” added Defenbaugh.

    Judge Posner ruled that the search was legal because the officer conducted a limited search and only looked for phone numbers associated with the alleged drug deal. The judge argued it was similar to flipping through a diary to search for basic information such as addresses and phone numbers.

    Paul Coggins is the former U.S. Attorney for the Northern District of Texas. Coggins says the court’s ruling pushes the envelope on privacy issues and wonders if it opens the door to more extensive searches down the road. “Does that mean officers now have the right to search through your phone, search through your search history, your photographs, your e-mails and the rest, because it could all be wiped clean,” Coggins asked.

    Many critics are asking the same question. They call the ruling an invasion of privacy that far outweighs the needs of law enforcement.
    http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2012/03/06/p...hone-searches/


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    Re: NSA Orders Phone Records of Millions Collected

    posted this on my FB page today.

    Tea Party. Rush Limbaugh. 9/12 project. Glenn Beck. Don't Tread on Me. Michael Savage. NRA. Ann Coulter. Anti-abortion. Michael Reagan. 2nd Amendment. There. That oughta make me some new friends at the NSA bwahahahahaha
    Stay classy, leftnutz

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    Re: NSA Orders Phone Records of Millions Collected

    patriot act, yeah!

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    Re: NSA Orders Phone Records of Millions Collected

    Quote Originally Posted by silver & black View Post
    I guess my attempt at sarcasm didn't translate.

    I agree with you.
    Yeah, sorry pal. I'm AWFUL at picking up on sarcasm.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Preacher View Post
    Um, one thing that we should remember . . . there is no guarantee of "privacy" for who you call, how long you call, how frequently you call, etc. etc. That information is all available to a third party immediately . . . your phone company. As such, there are no privacy issues protecting that information from the government. The conversations themselves, the contents of the messages, etc., are a different story.
    That's completely true, but what are they using the information for? If it was for innocent anti-terrorism uses I hardly think the White House, NSA and the phone companies involved would have no comment.
    "If you are holding on to something that you no longer need to hold on to, I encourage you to let go." - Rashard Mendenhall

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    The voice of reason Array title="GoSlash27 has a reputation beyond repute"> GoSlash27's Avatar

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    Re: NSA Orders Phone Records of Millions Collected

    Preacher,
    Actually, it's a direct violation of 50 USC s.s. 1842; the pen register provisions of the FISA act.
    http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/50/1842

    Also very likely a violation of 18 U.S.C. s.s. 2702, though it's not like the providers had much choice in the matter.

    These statutes (also including 47 USC s.s. 222) are *specifically* set up to protect the privacy of citizens' call records, so there is a *very* high expectation of privacy in these matters.

    There are all sorts of 4th Amendment issues with this one. Particularly troubling is the fact that the NSA has been specifically barred from operating domestically. Not only is this domestic, but it's exclusively domestic and freakin' *everybody*.
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

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    Smashmouth Posting Array title="Seven has much to be proud of"> Seven's Avatar

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    Re: NSA Orders Phone Records of Millions Collected

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    Preacher,
    Actually, it's a direct violation of 50 USC s.s. 1842; the pen register provisions of the FISA act.
    http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/50/1842

    Also very likely a violation of 18 U.S.C. s.s. 2702, though it's not like the providers had much choice in the matter.

    These statutes (also including 47 USC s.s. 222) are *specifically* set up to protect the privacy of citizens' call records, so there is a *very* high expectation of privacy in these matters.

    There are all sorts of 4th Amendment issues with this one. Particularly troubling is the fact that the NSA has been specifically barred from operating domestically. Not only is this domestic, but it's exclusively domestic and freakin' *everybody*.
    Slash, I want to agree with you. But I don't see anything in that document that says Verizon or any other phone provider can't willingly give the government that information. That's the position an attorney would take and I think it would win if something like this went to court.

    Your final line is more intriguing to me. If accurate I think they could get nailed there. I didn't know the NSA was barred from domestic investigation. Precedent says otherwise. Where/when were they instructed not to operate domestically, if you know?
    "If you are holding on to something that you no longer need to hold on to, I encourage you to let go." - Rashard Mendenhall

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    Re: NSA Orders Phone Records of Millions Collected

    Quote Originally Posted by steeldawg View Post
    patriot act, yeah!


    Liberals are basically saying GWB is the most powerful POTUS ever. Not only did he preside over his 8yrs but also makes decisions for Obama!
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

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    Re: NSA Orders Phone Records of Millions Collected

    Quote Originally Posted by zulater View Post
    Liberals are basically saying GWB is the most powerful POTUS ever. Not only did he preside over his 8yrs but also makes decisions for Obama!
    Stop it Zu, Obama is innocent. He's a good president. It's those former Republican Commander in Chiefs you gotta watch out for. I think Lincoln was just raised from perdition to come back and ruin Obama's good intentions.
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    Re: NSA Orders Phone Records of Millions Collected

    Quote Originally Posted by Seven View Post
    Stop it Zu, Obama is innocent. He's a good president. It's those former Republican Commander in Chiefs you gotta watch out for. I think Lincoln was just raised from perdition to come back and ruin Obama's good intentions.
    Really? I didn't know Lincoln or Obama promoted and signed the Patriot Act. I DO know Dubya did, thus laying the groundwork for the abuse you are seeing today. People tried to warn others back then that it was a bad idea and that this kind of thing would happen, but everyone was so skittish after 9/11 that they wouldn't listen. So now our chickens are coming home to roost. Once again, thanks a million, Dubya.








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    Re: NSA Orders Phone Records of Millions Collected

    Quote Originally Posted by X-Terminator View Post
    Really? I didn't know Lincoln or Obama promoted and signed the Patriot Act. I DO know Dubya did, thus laying the groundwork for the abuse you are seeing today. People tried to warn others back then that it was a bad idea and that this kind of thing would happen, but everyone was so skittish after 9/11 that they wouldn't listen. So now our chickens are coming home to roost. Once again, thanks a million, Dubya.
    Yeah, really. Not saying W didn't make his mistakes. Every president has made mistakes including the ones I like. It's just hilarious to see everything get blamed on one POTUS who has been out of office for half a decade. Obama might not have promoted Patriot, but he sure hasn't tried to revoke it, has he? How about we stop being bitter about the mistakes of the past and get angry with the guy who can fix it now. That makes more sense than beating a dead horse to me. But by all means, keep insulting Bush if it so pleases you. After all, everything, including our current problems, are solely his fault.
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    Re: NSA Orders Phone Records of Millions Collected

    Quote Originally Posted by zulater View Post
    Liberals are basically saying GWB is the most powerful POTUS ever. Not only did he preside over his 8yrs but also makes decisions for Obama!
    What funny is I didn't even have to say bush, all I said was patriot act and instantly you come running to bush's defense. This type of intrusion is a direct result of the patriot act, which prez bush signed into law so lets not pretend that this is a liberal thing and that liberals even support this. Liberals are very much against the patriot act.

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    Re: NSA Orders Phone Records of Millions Collected

    Quote Originally Posted by Seven View Post
    Yeah, really. Not saying W didn't make his mistakes. Every president has made mistakes including the ones I like. It's just hilarious to see everything get blamed on one POTUS who has been out of office for half a decade. Obama might not have promoted Patriot, but he sure hasn't tried to revoke it, has he? How about we stop being bitter about the mistakes of the past and get angry with the guy who can fix it now. That makes more sense than beating a dead horse to me. But by all means, keep insulting Bush if it so pleases you. After all, everything, including our current problems, are solely his fault.
    Obama is merely doing what everyone expects him to do. We all know he has no problem abusing his power, and yes, he should be blamed for allowing this to happen on his watch. But it does not change the fact that had Bush not signed the Patriot Act into law, it might be a little harder to justify it. It might be time for you to admit that. I have been against it from the day it was signed. Putting that much power into the hands of the government is dangerous, and every American should be concerned.








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    Re: NSA Orders Phone Records of Millions Collected

    Quote Originally Posted by steeldawg View Post
    What funny is I didn't even have to say bush, all I said was patriot act and instantly you come running to bush's defense. This type of intrusion is a direct result of the patriot act, which prez bush signed into law so lets not pretend that this is a liberal thing and that liberals even support this. Liberals are very much against the patriot act.
    Really then why is it the messiah not only doubled down on the patriot act but he expanded it.


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    Re: NSA Orders Phone Records of Millions Collected

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach1 View Post
    Really then why is it the messiah not only doubled down on the patriot act but he expanded it.
    and whats your point?

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    Re: NSA Orders Phone Records of Millions Collected

    Quote Originally Posted by steeldawg View Post
    What funny is I didn't even have to say bush, all I said was patriot act and instantly you come running to bush's defense. This type of intrusion is a direct result of the patriot act, which prez bush signed into law so lets not pretend that this is a liberal thing and that liberals even support this. Liberals are very much against the patriot act.
    Quote Originally Posted by steeldawg View Post
    and whats your point?
    Don't let the truth get in the way.


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    Re: NSA Orders Phone Records of Millions Collected

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach1 View Post
    Don't let the truth get in the way.
    "sigh" not every democrat is a liberal, true liberals where very much against the patriot act that is the truth.

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    Re: NSA Orders Phone Records of Millions Collected

    Thats why it passed again and was signed by your messiah.

    Post-Partisan: Liberals silent as Obamacrats hypocritically renew Patriot Act

    Obamacrats to prove they weren’t complete sellouts the other night by voting down the odious, Constitution-shredding Patriot Act.

    But, predictably, the Obamacrats sold out, and the Patriot Act passed again with nary a peep from the lefty liberals who savaged President Bush for the legislation.

    The House of Representatives reauthorized the Patriot Act for one year Thursday.

    The vote was 315-97 .

    Earlier, the Patriot Act glided through the Senate. Obama will sign the bill, hypocritically reneging on his past opposition to it. Of course, that was when the Patriot Act was a Bush deal.

    Now that Obamacrats had to put their money where the mouths are, of course they folded like a cheap tent.

    The Patriot Act is a symbol of executive overreach and a blatant assault on American privacy and civil liberty. Obama and the Obamacrats should be ashamed of their hypocrisy in supporting now while opposing it while Bush was President.

    Whither the protests from the left? Nowhere. Proving once again that too many Obamacrats have no true principles except to worship at the cult of Obama and excuse everything he does, no matter how onerous.
    http://www.examiner.com/article/post...ew-patriot-act


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    Re: NSA Orders Phone Records of Millions Collected

    Quote Originally Posted by steeldawg View Post
    What funny is I didn't even have to say bush, all I said was patriot act and instantly you come running to bush's defense. This type of intrusion is a direct result of the patriot act, which prez bush signed into law so lets not pretend that this is a liberal thing and that liberals even support this. Liberals are very much against the patriot act.
    Obama and Holder obviously aren't. Even though Hopey campaigned on the premise that he was the candidate of change, and those that elected him bought into it lock stock and barrell. And most deperately cling to that premise to this day. Yet 6 years later and government over- reach has gone to unprecedented levels and it's all Dubya's fault.


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    Re: NSA Orders Phone Records of Millions Collected

    Quote Originally Posted by X-Terminator View Post
    Obama is merely doing what everyone expects him to do. We all know he has no problem abusing his power, and yes, he should be blamed for allowing this to happen on his watch. But it does not change the fact that had Bush not signed the Patriot Act into law, it might be a little harder to justify it. It might be time for you to admit that. I have been against it from the day it was signed. Putting that much power into the hands of the government is dangerous, and every American should be concerned.
    I admitted it. Half a dozen years or more ago. Sorry, I agree with you. I just get frustrated when people play the Bush card. It's an easy out to the problems we face today.

    - - - Updated - - -

    In related news, the term "Goerge W. Obama" is currently trending.
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    Re: NSA Orders Phone Records of Millions Collected

    Quote Originally Posted by Seven View Post
    I admitted it. Half a dozen years or more ago. Sorry, I agree with you. I just get frustrated when people play the Bush card. It's an easy out to the problems we face today.
    Trust me, I can't stand that any more than you can. This is just one of those situations where a decision he made ended up doing possibly irreparable harm to the country. To enact a law like that, you have to put faith and trust in future Administrations and government in general to not exploit and abuse it, which is a really bad idea given who we have in the White House right now - someone who has no problem twisting the law for his personal gain. He had good intentions, I'm sure, but as they say, the road to Hell is paved with good intentions.








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