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Thread: Rate Shock: In California, Obamacare To Increase Individual Health Insurance Premiums

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    Senior Member Array title="zulater has a reputation beyond repute"> zulater's Avatar

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    Rate Shock: In California, Obamacare To Increase Individual Health Insurance Premiums

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapoth...ums-by-64-146/

    Last week, the state of California claimed that its version of Obamacare’s health insurance exchange would actually reduce premiums. “These rates are way below the worst-case gloom-and-doom scenarios we have heard,” boasted Peter Lee, executive director of the California exchange. But the data that Lee released tells a different story: Obamacare, in fact, will increase individual-market premiums in California by as much as 146 percent.

    One of the most serious flaws with Obamacare is that its blizzard of regulations and mandates drives up the cost of insurance for people who buy it on their own.

    This problem will be especially acute when the law’s main provisions kick in on January 1, 2014, leading many to worry about health insurance “rate shock.”




    Lee’s claims that there won’t be rate shock in California were repeated uncritically in some quarters. “Despite the political naysayers,” writes my Forbes colleague Rick Ungar, “the healthcare exchange concept appears to be working very well indeed in states like California.” A bit more analysis would have prevented Rick from falling for California’s sleight-of-hand.

    Here’s what happened. Last week, Covered California—the name for the state’s Obamacare-compatible insurance exchange—released the rates that Californians will have to pay to enroll in the exchange.

    “The rates submitted to Covered California for the 2014 individual market,” the state said in a press release, “ranged from two percent above to 29 percent below the 2013 average premium for small employer plans in California’s most populous regions.”

    That’s the sentence that led to all of the triumphant commentary from the left. “This is a home run for consumers in every region of California,” exulted Peter Lee.

    Except that Lee was making a misleading comparison. He was comparing apples—the plans that Californians buy today for themselves in a robust individual market—and oranges—the highly regulated plans that small employers purchase for their workers as a group. The difference is critical.

    Obamacare to double individual-market premiums

    If you’re a 25 year old male non-smoker, buying insurance for yourself, the cheapest plan on Obamacare’s exchanges is the catastrophic plan, which costs an average of $184 a month. (By “average,” I mean the median monthly premium across California’s 19 insurance rating regions.)

    The next cheapest plan, the “bronze” comprehensive plan, costs $205 a month. But in 2013, on eHealthInsurance.com (NASDAQ:EHTH), the median cost of the five cheapest plans was only $92.

    In other words, for the typical 25-year-old male non-smoking Californian, Obamacare will drive premiums up by between 100 and 123 percent.

    Under Obamacare, only people under the age of 30 can participate in the slightly cheaper catastrophic plan. So if you’re 40, your cheapest option is the bronze plan. In California, the median price of a bronze plan for a 40-year-old male non-smoker will be $261.

    But on eHealthInsurance, the median cost of the five cheapest plans was $121. That is, Obamacare will increase individual-market premiums by an average of 116 percent.

    For both 25-year-olds and 40-year-olds, then, Californians under Obamacare who buy insurance for themselves will see their insurance premiums double.


    - - - Updated - - -

    Working people are going to be destroyed by Obamacare. It's going to take decades to clean up the mess that this @#%&*&*@ leaves behind.
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    Re: Rate Shock: In California, Obamacare To Increase Individual Health Insurance Prem

    Didn't California essentially vote overwhelmingly in favor of this last November?

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    Re: Rate Shock: In California, Obamacare To Increase Individual Health Insurance Prem

    Quote Originally Posted by Preacher View Post
    Mark my words. The "Fix" to this is going to be a single-payer system shoved down our throats.
    That was the goal from the beginning.


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    Re: Rate Shock: In California, Obamacare To Increase Individual Health Insurance Prem

    Quote Originally Posted by Preacher View Post
    Mark my words. The "Fix" to this is going to be a single-payer system shoved down our throats.
    Yup. That was the point of making the insurance exchanges unworkable.
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    Re: Rate Shock: In California, Obamacare To Increase Individual Health Insurance Prem

    Quote Originally Posted by zulater View Post
    Working people are going to be destroyed by Obamacare. It's going to take decades to clean up the mess that this @#%&*&*@ leaves behind.
    But it's for our own good! We're just too stupid to realize it!

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    Re: Rate Shock: In California, Obamacare To Increase Individual Health Insurance Prem

    Forbes leaves out the federal subsidies yes the silver plan will cost $216 a month but if your only making say like 20,000 annually after subsidies it only cost you between 40-60 dollars a month which is not bad at all for example in cali 5.3 million people will be eligible for rates through the exchange with 2.6 million qualifying for subsidies, subsidies are available for those who make up to 400% of the poverty line which is 45,000 for an individual 92,000 for a family.

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    Re: Rate Shock: In California, Obamacare To Increase Individual Health Insurance Prem

    You know, for someone who claims to not like Obamacare, you sure do go out of your way to defend it a lot. Make up your mind - either it sucks, or it doesn't. None of this waffling shit.








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    Re: Rate Shock: In California, Obamacare To Increase Individual Health Insurance Prem

    I hope some enterprising companies offer nonconforming, catastrophic-only plans. I'd be willing to buy one of those, pay the fine, and still come out ahead.

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    Re: Rate Shock: In California, Obamacare To Increase Individual Health Insurance Prem

    Quote Originally Posted by X-Terminator View Post
    You know, for someone who claims to not like Obamacare, you sure do go out of your way to defend it a lot. Make up your mind - either it sucks, or it doesn't. None of this waffling shit.
    I don't know if it sucks it hasn't really started yet, whos waffling or defending im telling you what the facts of the plan are. I don't know if I like it or not yet, I simply said I didn't support it that was my position. I guess you guys would rather run with only partial truths rather than have all the facts.

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    Re: Rate Shock: In California, Obamacare To Increase Individual Health Insurance Prem

    Quote Originally Posted by steeldawg View Post
    I don't know if it sucks it hasn't really started yet, whos waffling or defending im telling you what the facts of the plan are. I don't know if I like it or not yet, I simply said I didn't support it that was my position. I guess you guys would rather run with only partial truths rather than have all the facts.
    Coming from the person who said hopeycare wasn't a bad thing simply because it did not affect you or your part time business and part time employees.
    Yes don't let facts get in the way.

    Just over three years ago, then-Speaker Nancy Pelosi famously quipped about ObamaCare that "we have to pass the bill so you can find out what is in it."


    But only now, as ObamaCare's third anniversary approaches — President Obama signed it into law on March 23, 2010 — is the country starting to find out what the sweeping health care overhaul will actually do.

    ObamaCare backers typically tout popular features that went into effect almost immediately. The law expanded Medicare's drug coverage, for example, and let children stay on their parents' plans until they turned 26.

    But the bulk of ObamaCare doesn't take effect until next year. That's when the so-called insurance exchanges are supposed to be up and running, when the mandate on individuals and businesses kicks in, and when the avalanche of regulations on the insurance industry hits.

    As this start date draws near, evidence is piling up that ObamaCare will:

    Boost insurance costs. Officially the "Affordable Care Act," ObamaCare promised to lower premiums for families. But regulators decided to impose a 3.5% surcharge on insurance plans sold through federally run exchanges. There's also a $63 fee for every person covered by employers. And the law adds a "premium tax" that will require insurers to pay more than $100 billion over the next decade. The congressional Joint Committee on Taxation expects insurers to simply pass this tax onto individuals and small businesses, boosting premiums another 2.5%.

    Push millions off employer coverage. In February, the Congressional Budget Office said that 7 million will likely lose their employer coverage thanks to ObamaCare — nearly twice its previous estimate. That number could be as high as 20 million, the CBO says.

    Cause premiums to skyrocket. In December, state insurance commissioners warned Obama administration officials that the law's market regulations would likely cause "rate shocks," particularly for younger, healthier people forced by ObamaCare to subsidize premiums for those who are older and sicker.

    "We are very concerned about what will happen if essentially there is so much rate shock for young people that they're bound not to purchase (health insurance) at all," said California Insurance Commissioner Dave Jones.

    That same month, Aetna CEO Mark Bertolini said ObamaCare will likely cause premiums to double for some small businesses and individuals.

    And a more recent survey of insurers in five major cities by the American Action Forum found they expect premiums to climb an average 169%.

    Cost people their jobs. The Federal Reserve's March beige book on economic activity noted that businesses "cited the unknown effects of the Affordable Care Act as reasons for planned layoffs and reluctance to hire more staff."

    Around the same time, Gallup reported a surge in part-time work in advance of ObamaCare's employer mandate. It found that part-timers accounted for almost 21% of the labor force, up from 19% three years ago.

    Meanwhile, human resources consulting firm Adecco found that half of the small businesses it surveyed in January either plan to cut their workforce, not hire new workers, or shift to part-time or temporary help because of ObamaCare.

    Tax the middle class. IBD reported in February that much of the $800 billion in tax hikes imposed by ObamaCare will end up hitting the middle class, including $45 billion in mandate penalties, $19 billion raised by limiting medical expense deductions, $24 billion through strict limits on flexible spending accounts, plus another $5 billion because ObamaCare bans using FSAs to buy over-the-counter drugs.

    Add to the deficit. The Government Accountability Office reported in January that Obama-Care will likely add $6.2 trillion in red ink over 75 years if independent experts are right and several of its cost control measures don't work as advertised.

    Cost more than promised. The Congressional Budget Office now says ObamaCare's insurance subsidies will cost $233 billion more over the next decade than it thought last year.

    Be a bureaucratic nightmare. Consumers got their first glimpse of life under ObamaCare when the Health and Human Services Department released a draft insurance application form. It runs 21 pages. "Applying for benefits under President Barack Obama's health care overhaul could be as daunting as doing your taxes," the AP concluded after reviewing the form.

    Exacerbate doctor shortages. Last summer, a study by the Association of American Medical Colleges found that the country will have 62,900 fewer doctors than its needs by 2015, thanks in large part to ObamaCare. At the same time, a survey of 13,000 doctors by the Physicians Foundation found that almost 60% of doctors say ObamaCare has made them less optimistic about the future of health care and they would retire today if they could.

    Leave millions uninsured. After 10 years, ObamaCare will still leave 30 million without coverage, according to the CBO. As IBD reported, that figure could be much higher if the law causes premiums to spike and encourages people to drop coverage despite the law's mandate.

    Read More At Investor's Business Daily: http://news.investors.com/032113-648...#ixzz2V5P8svmc
    Follow us: @IBDinvestors on Twitter | InvestorsBusinessDaily on Facebook
    15 Obamacare Facts You Must Know

    Roughly six million of the 19 million people with individual health policies will pay more. Single adults age 21-29 will be walloped with a 46% increase.

    Three million people will lose their insurance altogether, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) projects.

    Six million will have to pay the individual tax mandate penalty in 2016 because they don't want or won't be able to afford coverage.

    People that have insurance via an employer could have their plan dropped as a result of increasing rates. By 2019 (five years into Obamacare), an estimated 12 million people who would have had an offer of employment-based coverage under prior law will lose their offer, the CBO reports.

    Health insurers will need to increase premiums between 1% and 9%.

    Premiums for families will increase by roughly $2,100.

    Premiums plus out-of-pocket costs are forecast to increase 12.4%.

    Obamacare will increase the long-term federal deficit by $6.2 trillion, according to the Government Accountability Office.

    Some $1 trillion middle income tax increases are buried under Obamacare, including the 0.9% payroll tax and the new 3.8% tax on investment income.

    Obamacare drains $716 billion out of Medicare, leaving it to grow at only half the rate of health care in the rest of the country. The outcome: one out of seven hospitals will leave Medicare over the next seven years.

    With 30 million new people entering the healthcare system, expect limited access to health care, longer patient wait times, fewer face-to-face doctor visits, and more doctor refusal of patients.

    Emergency rooms will become more overcrowded. As more people attain coverage, they will be less afraid of going to the ER for even minor ailments.

    Doctor shortages will worsen. A recent Physicians Foundation survey of 13,575 doctors found 77% are pessimistic about medicine's future under Obamacare. Many are prepared to sell their practice and take early retirement.

    Businesses will cut employees and employee hours in order to comply with the law. The Bureau of Labor Statistics says 10 million involuntarily underemployed part-timers will be affected.

    Obamacare kills small business. "If [employees] are thrown out of their medical plans now, where they're covered in a good plan and thrown under the bus, they're going to be destroyed," The Home Depot Inc (NYSE: HD) co-founder Bernie Marcus said on Newsmax TV. "If, in fact, they don't stay as full-time employees but go to part-time employees, they're going to be destroyed. People have to understand that the villain is not their employer; the villain is the U.S. government. Obamacare is the capper. That's the bullet to the temple."

    http://finance.boston.com/boston/new...nt_you_to_know


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    Re: Rate Shock: In California, Obamacare To Increase Individual Health Insurance Prem

    Quote Originally Posted by steeldawg View Post
    I don't know if it sucks it hasn't really started yet, whos waffling or defending im telling you what the facts of the plan are. I don't know if I like it or not yet, I simply said I didn't support it that was my position. I guess you guys would rather run with only partial truths rather than have all the facts.
    You don't know if it sucks, you don't know if you like it or not...but you don't support it? That is the classic definition of a waffle.

    Next time you say that you support smaller government, I'm going to have to call bullshit. The fact that you are even considering Obamacare to be a good law despite all of the numbers, mandates and the untold billions of dollars this albatross is going to cost American taxpayers tells me that you believe in nothing of the sort.








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    Re: Rate Shock: In California, Obamacare To Increase Individual Health Insurance Prem

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach1 View Post
    Coming from the person who said hopeycare wasn't a bad thing simply because it did not affect you or your part time business and part time employees.
    Yes don't let facts get in the way.
    No once again you have put words in my mouth I simply told you which businesses it would affect and that most small businesses don't have over 50 employees so they are not mandated to offer healthcare you no nothing about obamacare you act like its the most evil thing in the world but you also voted for Romney who had the same damn bill.

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    Re: Rate Shock: In California, Obamacare To Increase Individual Health Insurance Prem

    Quote Originally Posted by X-Terminator View Post
    You don't know if it sucks, you don't know if you like it or not...but you don't support it? That is the classic definition of a waffle.

    Next time you say that you support smaller government, I'm going to have to call bullshit. The fact that you are even considering Obamacare to be a good law despite all of the numbers, mandates and the untold billions of dollars this albatross is going to cost American taxpayers tells me that you believe in nothing of the sort.
    Not a waffle I didn't support it because I didn't know if it will work or not, that doesn't mean that I cant tell the truth about how the bill works. The fact that you don't even consider the fact that it might be a good law, is ridiculous. Our current system was absolutely unsustainable we needed reform, you can cry small government, big government all you want but people need health care its a basic need like food. despite the numbers? what numbers? So far every hack set of numbers predicting the effects of obamacare has been way off. Now the prices on the exchange and the subsidies based on income are actual facts that's what they will be. Just like the garbage "facts" that mach 1 just posted above. Lets take a look at just 1 the overcrowding of emergency rooms because now that people have health insurance for every little problem they are going to go to the emergency room, really that's a fact? Like the bill or not I will still tell the truth about how it works I don't care if you want to cry bs or not and no I didn't support it I don't know if it will work but If it does I will tip cap.

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    Re: Rate Shock: In California, Obamacare To Increase Individual Health Insurance Prem

    Quote Originally Posted by steeldawg View Post
    No once again you have put words in my mouth I simply told you which businesses it would affect and that most small businesses don't have over 50 employees so they are not mandated to offer healthcare you no nothing about obamacare you act like its the most evil thing in the world but you also voted for Romney who had the same damn bill.
    You have no idea who I voted for. This monstrosity affects business in many more ways than just being mandated to cover employees. It affects every business whether or not they have 50 or more employees.

    Again don't let facts get in the way.


    Just hope you never get old and need to spend time at a care center or assisted living. Your obaaamacare insurance will not give you the choice to pick and choose what facility you will go to, they will place you in what ever facility is in their network. They will dictate what level of care you will receive and what needs you will have. Not you, not your family, not your doctor. Enjoy
    Last edited by Mach1; 06-02-2013 at 06:47 PM.


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    Re: Rate Shock: In California, Obamacare To Increase Individual Health Insurance Prem

    Quote Originally Posted by steeldawg View Post
    Not a waffle I didn't support it because I didn't know if it will work or not, that doesn't mean that I cant tell the truth about how the bill works. The fact that you don't even consider the fact that it might be a good law, is ridiculous. Our current system was absolutely unsustainable we needed reform, you can cry small government, big government all you want but people need health care its a basic need like food. despite the numbers? what numbers? So far every hack set of numbers predicting the effects of obamacare has been way off. Now the prices on the exchange and the subsidies based on income are actual facts that's what they will be. Just like the garbage "facts" that mach 1 just posted above. Lets take a look at just 1 the overcrowding of emergency rooms because now that people have health insurance for every little problem they are going to go to the emergency room, really that's a fact? Like the bill or not I will still tell the truth about how it works I don't care if you want to cry bs or not and no I didn't support it I don't know if it will work but If it does I will tip cap.
    Yeah, because of course what CA says people will pay is exactly what they're going to pay now and in the future, right? Nothing will ever get more expensive for the average Joe, right? There's absolutely no track record of cost increases when the government subsidizes anything, right?

    You can go right ahead and believe that if you want.

    The solution to this problem is LESS government involvement, not MORE. They could have done the same thing with health care that we already do with car and homeowner's insurance, but no. Let's get the feds fully involved and drive up the costs for everyone while getting less and less service in return.

    Again, you are not even close to being someone who wants less government, so you may as well cut the crap and admit the truth. I at least put my vote where my mouth is and refused to vote for Mitt Romney based mostly on his big government track record and his Masscare that eventually morphed into Obamacare.








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    Re: Rate Shock: In California, Obamacare To Increase Individual Health Insurance Prem

    Quote Originally Posted by X-Terminator View Post
    Yeah, because of course what CA says people will pay is exactly what they're going to pay now and in the future, right? Nothing will ever get more expensive for the average Joe, right? There's absolutely no track record of cost increases when the government subsidizes anything, right?

    You can go right ahead and believe that if you want.

    The solution to this problem is LESS government involvement, not MORE. They could have done the same thing with health care that we already do with car and homeowner's insurance, but no. Let's get the feds fully involved and drive up the costs for everyone while getting less and less service in return.

    Again, you are not even close to being someone who wants less government, so you may as well cut the crap and admit the truth. I at least put my vote where my mouth is and refused to vote for Mitt Romney based mostly on his big government track record and his Masscare that eventually morphed into Obamacare.
    Admit what truth, I don't understand how you think the feds are fully involved in health insurance there is no public option all Obamacare does is makes people buy health care and mandates certain employers offer health care, saying it should be done like auto or home insurance is impossible because you can choose to buy a house or car you cannot choose to get sick and get well on your own.

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    Re: Rate Shock: In California, Obamacare To Increase Individual Health Insurance Prem

    Quote Originally Posted by steeldawg View Post
    Admit what truth, I don't understand how you think the feds are fully involved in health insurance there is no public option all Obamacare does is makes people buy health care and mandates certain employers offer health care, saying it should be done like auto or home insurance is impossible because you can choose to buy a house or car you cannot choose to get sick and get well on your own.
    So your saying I wasted two days at a ihca-ical clinic and filling out stacks of forms to get in "the network" for insurance companies?


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    Re: Rate Shock: In California, Obamacare To Increase Individual Health Insurance Prem

    Number of MRI scanners in Canada (2010) 266. Number estimated in the US (2010) 7,000.

    Population is a x10 factor, hence the long waits for MRI exams.

    My son had an allergic reaction back in March (we suspect shell fish). Went to emergency room and he was prescribed an EPEE pen. (no wait time, due to reason) Allergy test was booked for June 1. Surface skin testing only. Blood allergy test to determine which fish he may be allergic to, scheduled for August and he has to pay for it.

    Hope this isn't the road that the US is going down.

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    Re: Rate Shock: In California, Obamacare To Increase Individual Health Insurance Prem

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Steeler View Post
    Number of MRI scanners in Canada (2010) 266. Number estimated in the US (2010) 7,000.

    Population is a x10 factor, hence the long waits for MRI exams.

    My son had an allergic reaction back in March (we suspect shell fish). Went to emergency room and he was prescribed an EPEE pen. (no wait time, due to reason) Allergy test was booked for June 1. Surface skin testing only. Blood allergy test to determine which fish he may be allergic to, scheduled for August and he has to pay for it.

    Hope this isn't the road that the US is going down.
    Canada is a single payer, obamacare is kind of the opposite, in the single payer its basically free care but in obamacare everyone has to pay for their care. And they are not paying the government they are buying their insurance from insurance companies or through their employer.

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    Re: Rate Shock: In California, Obamacare To Increase Individual Health Insurance Prem

    Quote Originally Posted by steeldawg View Post
    Admit what truth, I don't understand how you think the feds are fully involved in health insurance there is no public option all Obamacare does is makes people buy health care and mandates certain employers offer health care, saying it should be done like auto or home insurance is impossible because you can choose to buy a house or car you cannot choose to get sick and get well on your own.
    Are the feds not subsidizing insurance plans for lower-income people? Do you really believe that isn't going to have an opposite effect of everyone else paying a hell of a lot more every year just so they can keep their $60 a month plans? How in the world can ANYONE think that's a good idea?

    They absolutely could have done the same thing we do with car and homeowner's insurance, by allowing health insurance companies more opportunity to sell plans in other states to promote competition. That is a better alternative than forcing people to buy health insurance that the government says you must have, and has to satisfy whatever conditions that they say must be met. Where's the freedom in that?








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    Re: Rate Shock: In California, Obamacare To Increase Individual Health Insurance Prem

    Quote Originally Posted by X-Terminator View Post
    Are the feds not subsidizing insurance plans for lower-income people? Do you really believe that isn't going to have an opposite effect of everyone else paying a hell of a lot more every year just so they can keep their $60 a month plans? How in the world can ANYONE think that's a good idea?

    They absolutely could have done the same thing we do with car and homeowner's insurance, by allowing health insurance companies more opportunity to sell plans in other states to promote competition. That is a better alternative than forcing people to buy health insurance that the government says you must have, and has to satisfy whatever conditions that they say must be met. Where's the freedom in that?
    Because right now people who dont have insurance are causing rates to spiral out of control, With obamacare at least people are paying a portion of the insurance instead of nothing in which case the rest of us are absorbing the cost. The problem with selling it across state lines is that is doesn't fix the uninsured problem, I agree it makes for good competition but as long as the uninsured stay uninsured cost will continue to rise so you will just be paying the lesser of the already inflated costs. with obamacare insurers must put their rates on the exchange side by side with other companies creating what I think is great competition. As far as auto insurance you are forced to buy auto insurance if you want to drive its the same idea, you can get around it simply by choosing not to drive. with healthcare you must have insurance the same way but you cant choose not to get sick.

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    Re: Rate Shock: In California, Obamacare To Increase Individual Health Insurance Prem

    Quote Originally Posted by steeldawg View Post
    Because right now people who dont have insurance are causing rates to spiral out of control, With obamacare at least people are paying a portion of the insurance instead of nothing in which case the rest of us are absorbing the cost. The problem with selling it across state lines is that is doesn't fix the uninsured problem, I agree it makes for good competition but as long as the uninsured stay uninsured cost will continue to rise so you will just be paying the lesser of the already inflated costs. with obamacare insurers must put their rates on the exchange side by side with other companies creating what I think is great competition. As far as auto insurance you are forced to buy auto insurance if you want to drive its the same idea, you can get around it simply by choosing not to drive. with healthcare you must have insurance the same way but you cant choose not to get sick.
    Obamacare doesn't fix the uninsured problem either, as there are still going to be millions who will not have health insurance, which in turn will drive up costs. So in the end, we will be right back at square one, but with a hell of a lot more money wasted. At least with competition through selling across state lines, you will achieve the goal of what these "exchanges" claim as far as rates, AND people get to keep their freedom without Uncle Sam punishing them or forcing them to buy something they don't need.

    Anyway, this argument is going nowhere. We will never agree, because in the end, you trust the government to follow through on all of its claims, and I do not - and there's mountains of evidence to support my stance. They can't even get airport security right and they have no problem limiting your freedom through instituting pseudo-martial law over an entire city like they did in Boston...and you trust them with your health care?








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    Re: Rate Shock: In California, Obamacare To Increase Individual Health Insurance Prem

    Quote Originally Posted by X-Terminator View Post
    Obamacare doesn't fix the uninsured problem either, as there are still going to be millions who will not have health insurance, which in turn will drive up costs. So in the end, we will be right back at square one, but with a hell of a lot more money wasted. At least with competition through selling across state lines, you will achieve the goal of what these "exchanges" claim as far as rates, AND people get to keep their freedom without Uncle Sam punishing them or forcing them to buy something they don't need.

    Anyway, this argument is going nowhere. We will never agree, because in the end, you trust the government to follow through on all of its claims, and I do not - and there's mountains of evidence to support my stance. They can't even get airport security right and they have no problem limiting your freedom through instituting pseudo-martial law over an entire city like they did in Boston...and you trust them with your health care?
    What are you talking about? ya there will be some people who have nothing who will be get help but the number of people who will be paying into the system will put a huge dent in the uninsured problem. What mountain of evidence? You have evidence that the bill wont work? Like I said so far all these dire predictions of the effects of obamacare have been wrong. Im not trusting them with my healthcare, healthcare is still handled by doctors and insurance companies absolutely none of that changed.

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    Senior Member Array title="zulater has a reputation beyond repute"> zulater's Avatar

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    Re: Rate Shock: In California, Obamacare To Increase Individual Health Insurance Prem

    Quote Originally Posted by steeldawg View Post
    What are you talking about? ya there will be some people who have nothing who will be get help but the number of people who will be paying into the system will put a huge dent in the uninsured problem. What mountain of evidence? You have evidence that the bill wont work? Like I said so far all these dire predictions of the effects of obamacare have been wrong. Im not trusting them with my healthcare, healthcare is still handled by doctors and insurance companies absolutely none of that changed.
    In every dry run that I've seen on Obamacare the numbers just don't add up. None of it's advocates even tries to pretend that they do, the thought seems to be once we get it running things will work out. But the problem is when you do the math the numbers aren't even close to adding up. It's going to drive doctors out of practice, it's going to break the middle class.

    It's reckless to implement a system that on paper looks like a disaster in the making.

    You ask do we have evidence that the system wont work? Yes we do, pretty much every thing put forth screams it. But since you wont believe it, no matter how compelling the evidence, let me put it to you this way. Before we put men into space we did the calculations, we knew what angle and speed and how much protection would be needed to get the spacecraft back safely into our atmosphere without burning up on reentry. Had we applied the principles you want to apply to the biggest use of government funds in the history of human kind to the space program we would have burned up a decades worth of astronauts on reentry.
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    Re: Rate Shock: In California, Obamacare To Increase Individual Health Insurance Prem

    Quote Originally Posted by steeldawg View Post
    What are you talking about? ya there will be some people who have nothing who will be get help but the number of people who will be paying into the system will put a huge dent in the uninsured problem. What mountain of evidence? You have evidence that the bill wont work? Like I said so far all these dire predictions of the effects of obamacare have been wrong. Im not trusting them with my healthcare, healthcare is still handled by doctors and insurance companies absolutely none of that changed.
    Your in for a very rude awakening.
    Last edited by Mach1; 06-03-2013 at 12:00 PM.


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    Quest For Seven Array title="Mach1 has a reputation beyond repute"> Mach1's Avatar

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    Re: Rate Shock: In California, Obamacare To Increase Individual Health Insurance Prem

    Another lie that can be posted on a daily basis.

    IRS: Cheapest Obamacare Plan Will Be $20,000 Per Family

    (CNSNews.com) – In a final regulation issued Wednesday, the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) assumed that under Obamacare the cheapest health insurance plan available in 2016 for a family will cost $20,000 for the year.

    Under Obamacare, Americans will be required to buy health insurance or pay a penalty to the IRS.

    The IRS's assumption that the cheapest plan for a family will cost $20,000 per year is found in examples the IRS gives to help people understand how to calculate the penalty they will need to pay the government if they do not buy a mandated health plan.

    The examples point to families of four and families of five, both of which the IRS expects in its assumptions to pay a minimum of $20,000 per year for a bronze plan.

    “The annual national average bronze plan premium for a family of 5 (2 adults, 3 children) is $20,000,” the regulation says.

    Bronze will be the lowest tier health-insurance plan available under Obamacare--after Silver, Gold, and Platinum. Under the law, the penalty for not buying health insurance is supposed to be capped at either the annual average Bronze premium, 2.5 percent of taxable income, or $2,085.00 per family in 2016.

    In the new final rules published Wednesday, IRS set in law the rules for implementing the penalty Americans must pay if they fail to obey Obamacare's mandate to buy insurance.

    To help illustrate these rules, the IRS presented examples of different situations families might find themselves in.

    In the examples, the IRS assumes that families of five who are uninsured would need to pay an average of $20,000 per year to purchase a Bronze plan in 2016.

    Using the conditions laid out in the regulations, the IRS calculates that a family earning $120,000 per year that did not buy insurance would need to pay a "penalty" (a word the IRS still uses despite the Supreme Court ruling that it is in fact a "tax") of $2,400 in 2016.

    For those wondering how clear the IRS's clarifications of this new "penalty" rule are, here is one of the actual examples the IRS gives:

    “Example 3. Family without minimum essential coverage.

    "(i) In 2016, Taxpayers H and J are married and file a joint return. H and J have three children: K, age 21, L, age 15, and M, age 10. No member of the family has minimum essential coverage for any month in 2016. H and J’s household income is $120,000. H and J’s applicable filing threshold is $24,000. The annual national average bronze plan premium for a family of 5 (2 adults, 3 children) is $20,000.

    "(ii) For each month in 2016, under paragraphs (b)(2)(ii) and (b)(2)(iii) of this section, the applicable dollar amount is $2,780 (($695 x 3 adults) + (($695/2) x 2 children)). Under paragraph (b)(2)(i) of this section, the flat dollar amount is $2,085 (the lesser of $2,780 and $2,085 ($695 x 3)). Under paragraph (b)(3) of this section, the excess income amount is $2,400 (($120,000 - $24,000) x 0.025). Therefore, under paragraph (b)(1) of this section, the monthly penalty amount is $200 (the greater of $173.75 ($2,085/12) or $200 ($2,400/12)).

    "(iii) The sum of the monthly penalty amounts is $2,400 ($200 x 12). The sum of the monthly national average bronze plan premiums is $20,000 ($20,000/12 x 12). Therefore, under paragraph (a) of this section, the shared responsibility payment imposed on H and J for 2016 is $2,400 (the lesser of $2,400 or $20,000).”
    http://cnsnews.com/news/article/irs-...e-20000-family
    Good thing it's FREE.


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    Geek God Array title="X-Terminator has a reputation beyond repute"> X-Terminator's Avatar

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    Re: Rate Shock: In California, Obamacare To Increase Individual Health Insurance Prem

    Quote Originally Posted by steeldawg View Post
    What are you talking about? ya there will be some people who have nothing who will be get help but the number of people who will be paying into the system will put a huge dent in the uninsured problem. What mountain of evidence? You have evidence that the bill wont work? Like I said so far all these dire predictions of the effects of obamacare have been wrong. Im not trusting them with my healthcare, healthcare is still handled by doctors and insurance companies absolutely none of that changed.
    I'm talking about the mountain of evidence to support not trusting the government to run anything efficiently or sensibly, and I gave you 2 examples of that. Let's throw in Social Security being broke and spending billions on education but constantly turning out stupid and unprepared kids as 2 more examples. But yet, you want to trust them to do that with health care. Well, good luck with that, because their track record says that they won't. We are going to end up paying through the nose for this, and we will get less quality care for our money. You say there will be a huge dent in the uninsured problem? Their own damn bill says there will still be millions without insurance!

    You know what, I'm done. Trying to get you to see what's in front of your face is like talking to a brick wall, and it's starting to piss me off. So rather than have hard feelings, I'm bowing out of this discussion.








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    Senior Member Array title="zulater has a reputation beyond repute"> zulater's Avatar

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    Re: Rate Shock: In California, Obamacare To Increase Individual Health Insurance Prem

    http://cnsnews.com/news/article/irs-...e-20000-family

    posted previously by Mach.

    Going to be a lot of people paying that new tax, er I mean "penalty" and in the end getting inferior coverage to what they previously had. Obama care will destroy the middle class. .
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

  30. #30
    Quest For Seven Array title="Mach1 has a reputation beyond repute"> Mach1's Avatar

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    Re: Rate Shock: In California, Obamacare To Increase Individual Health Insurance Prem

    Quote Originally Posted by zulater View Post
    http://cnsnews.com/news/article/irs-...e-20000-family

    posted previously by Mach.

    Going to be a lot of people paying that new tax, er I mean "penalty" and in the end getting inferior coverage to what they previously had. Obama care will destroy the middle class. .
    About 2/3 of the country.


    Two-Thirds of Americans Don't Know If They Will Insure Under Obamacare

    There's no assurance folks will be buying insurance under Obamacare, and that could spell trouble for the Affordable Care Act.

    Nearly two-thirds of Americans who currently lack health insurance don't know yet if they will purchase that coverage by the Jan. 1 deadline set by the ACA, a new survey revealed Monday.

    And less than half of those in the survey released by InsuranceQuotes.com think they'll get better health care after Obamacare takes full effect. Nearly 50 percent believe the ACA will make it more difficult for them to get tests and procedures done in a timely manner, according to the phone survey of 1,001 adult Americans conducted in early May.

    And a whopping 68 percent of low-income Americans aren't sure they qualify for tax credits that would subsidize their purchase of health insurance—despite they fact that they almost invariably will qualify, the survey found. That population is most likely to benefit from government subsidies under the health-care reform law.

    Laura Adams, senior insurance analyst at InsuranceQuotes.com, said public uncertainty about Obamacare—particularly a lack of commitment to signing up—could end up driving up health-insurance costs under the program because not enough healthy people will participate to offset benefits payouts.

    I was really shocked that 64 percent [of uninsured adults] said they haven't decided if they will purchase insurance by the Jan. 1 deadline," Adams said. "I was definitely surprised by the high number of people who really have no clue what they're going to do next year."

    "We don't want these consumers to miss this key deadline," she said, adding that new heath-care exchanges under Obamacare will begin accepting applications for insurance in less than four months. "They're going to potentially go without health care for the entire year."

    In other findings of the survey, more than 60 percent of Americans said they fear Obamacare will lead to increased health-care costs.

    Under the ACA, uninsured Americans have until the beginning of 2014 to purchase insurance through health-care exchanges being set up nationwide or other venues—or face a financial penalty. That penalty is equal to $95 per adult, and $47.50 per child, up to a maximum of $285—or 1 percent of household income, whichever is greater.

    Those penalties will escalate in future years.

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/100783056


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