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Thread: Federal Budget Thread (Was: RNC to spend $10 million to reach minorities)

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    Re: RNC to spend $10 million to reach minorities

    Quote Originally Posted by steeldawg View Post
    Im well aware businesses are out to make money, and i realize they dont have to do anything, they can continue to pay low wages and outsource jobs thats what they are doing now thats why their profits are soaring. Im not suggesting a company hire itself into bankrupcy and spend every dime of profit on the employees, all i said was im looking for corporations to do it, they are the only ones that can do it. Higher wages and more people working means more money being pumped into the economy its better for business especially small businesses. Its a tough pill to swallow to see profits through the roof and unemployment through the roof.
    Well... that's kind of an unavoidable by-product of excessive and capricious government regulation. If you make hiring Americans unsustainable, they have no choice but to either out-source or go out of business.
    Very much like the income disparity situation. You mean well, but you're unwittingly contributing to the problem.

    Not to be flip about it, but I can explain in 1 paragraph why your whole outlook is misguided and why it constantly backfires:

    You believe that government is, at it's core, a force for good; that they operate on altruism and the best interest of all. But that's not the case. They are professional liars and most of them are corrupt. Government is a necessary evil, but an evil nonetheless. They will always take your good intentions and twist them to their own ends. Our society will always suffer from lack of fairness, and as long as folks like yourself continue to empower them to "fix" it, it will continue to get worse.
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

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    Re: RNC to spend $10 million to reach minorities

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    Well... that's kind of an unavoidable by-product of excessive and capricious government regulation. If you make hiring Americans unsustainable, they have no choice but to either out-source or go out of business.
    Very much like the income disparity situation. You mean well, but you're unwittingly contributing to the problem.

    Not to be flip about it, but I can explain in 1 paragraph why your whole outlook is misguided and why it constantly backfires:

    You believe that government is, at it's core, a force for good; that they operate on altruism and the best interest of all. But that's not the case. They are professional liars and most of them are corrupt. Government is a necessary evil, but an evil nonetheless. They will always take your good intentions and twist them to their own ends. Our society will always suffer from lack of fairness, and as long as folks like yourself continue to empower them to "fix" it, it will continue to get worse.
    where did i say anything about government? I didnt say I wanted government to fix anything now your just putting words in my mouth.

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    Re: RNC to spend $10 million to reach minorities

    Quote Originally Posted by steeldawg View Post
    where did i say anything about government? I didnt say I wanted government to fix anything now your just putting words in my mouth.
    I'm just saying that based on my understanding of your outlook from your post history. If that shoe doesn't fit, then I missed the mark and I apologize. But if the shoe *does* fit and you find yourself thinkin' from time to time "there oughtta be a law".... well, I won't berate you for it, but I *do* urge you to re-think it.
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

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    Re: RNC to spend $10 million to reach minorities

    Quote Originally Posted by steeldawg View Post
    Im not looking for the government to do anything im looking for corporations to step up to the plate and start hiring at decent wages, giving decent hours, instaed of just trying to drive the stock price up.
    and this folks, is why Barack Obama won a second term.

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    Re: RNC to spend $10 million to reach minorities

    Quote Originally Posted by Seven View Post
    and this folks, is why Barack Obama won a second term.
    And that brings us full circle. Truth is that Obama would've won even if the minorities were on board. The real reason Obama won was because the Republicans had an unpopular message, a lousy candidate, and no credibility.
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

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    Re: RNC to spend $10 million to reach minorities

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    And that brings us full circle. Truth is that Obama would've won even if the minorities were on board. The real reason Obama won was because the Republicans had an unpopular message, a lousy candidate, and no credibility.
    How can that be the case, when all you've said for the last handful of months is that Romney's message was essentially the same as Obama's and he wouldn't have done anything different than the incumbent had he been elected? If the Republican campaign/Romney were "no different" than Obama, which you have said dozens of times, how can you now justify saying the message was unpopular?

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    Re: RNC to spend $10 million to reach minorities

    Quote Originally Posted by Seven View Post
    How can that be the case, when all you've said for the last handful of months is that Romney's message was essentially the same as Obama's and he wouldn't have done anything different than the incumbent had he been elected? If the Republican campaign/Romney were "no different" than Obama, which you have said dozens of times, how can you now justify saying the message was unpopular?
    "Message" isn't the same thing as "policy positions".
    The *message* was essentially "liberalism is bad and we're not going to stray very far from it". Not only negative, but disingenuous to boot.
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

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    Re: RNC to spend $10 million to reach minorities

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    "Message" isn't the same thing as "policy positions".
    The *message* was essentially "liberalism is bad and we're not going to stray very far from it". Not only negative, but disingenuous to boot.
    Fair enough. Just seems contradictory.

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    Re: RNC to spend $10 million to reach minorities

    Quote Originally Posted by Seven View Post
    and this folks, is why Barack Obama won a second term.
    For about the 1000th time i didnt vote for obama, you know you can vote outside of republican and democrat.

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    Re: RNC to spend $10 million to reach minorities

    Quote Originally Posted by Seven View Post
    Fair enough. Just seems contradictory.
    I can understand why it would seem that way, but it's not.
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

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    Re: RNC to spend $10 million to reach minorities

    Quote Originally Posted by steeldawg View Post
    For about the 1000th time i didnt vote for obama, you know you can vote outside of republican and democrat.
    Regardless of who you voted for, the mindset which you represented with your notion that it is the responsibility of private companies to "step up to the plate" is what got Barack Obama re-elected.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    I can understand why it would seem that way, but it's not.
    I understand what you are trying to say, the line is just too fine for me to buy it. While I concede the Romney campaign had its share of flaws, I do not think a more appealing message would have made a difference in this election.

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    Re: RNC to spend $10 million to reach minorities

    Quote Originally Posted by Seven View Post
    Regardless of who you voted for, the mindset which you represented with your notion that it is the responsibility of private companies to "step up to the plate" is what got Barack Obama re-elected.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I understand what you are trying to say, the line is just too fine for me to buy it. While I concede the Romney campaign had its share of flaws, I do not think a more appealing message would have made a difference in this election.
    Where do you think our jobs come from who pays the wages, who else is gonna step up to the plate with good paying jobs??? Companies right now are stock piling cash and not hiring and yes its their right but that dosnt make it good for the economy. You cant have it both ways, you want less government, ok thats fine but if you want less government , less entightlement programs, we have to rely on private corporations to provide enough well paying jobs so people can survive. Not everyone can be a CEO or a business owner, we need factory workers, waiters, teachers, landscapers, all these little people doing these jobs are what makes this country go.

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    Re: RNC to spend $10 million to reach minorities

    Quote Originally Posted by steeldawg View Post
    Where do you think our jobs come from who pays the wages, who else is gonna step up to the plate with good paying jobs??? Companies right now are stock piling cash and not hiring and yes its their right but that dosnt make it good for the economy. You cant have it both ways, you want less government, ok thats fine but if you want less government , less entightlement programs, we have to rely on private corporations to provide enough well paying jobs so people can survive. Not everyone can be a CEO or a business owner, we need factory workers, waiters, teachers, landscapers, all these little people doing these jobs are what makes this country go.
    That will never happen when the government is forcing them to purchase services for employee's or fining them and taxing them into oblivion at the same time.


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    Re: RNC to spend $10 million to reach minorities

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    I'm just saying that based on my understanding of your outlook from your post history. If that shoe doesn't fit, then I missed the mark and I apologize. But if the shoe *does* fit and you find yourself thinkin' from time to time "there oughtta be a law".... well, I won't berate you for it, but I *do* urge you to re-think it.
    I dont know what post history would tell you that im looking for government to fix anything. Im for deregulation but i also dont trust private corporations who dont care about americans or the economy to put people back too work. There is no question businesses are hindered by the government, but lets not kid ourselves these corporations are not the heros that some people on this forum make them out to be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mach1 View Post
    That will never happen when the government is forcing them to purchase services for employee's or fining them and taxing them into oblivion at the same time.
    They do do pay high taxes, but these large corporations are not hurting they are still turning huge profits.

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    Re: RNC to spend $10 million to reach minorities

    Quote Originally Posted by Seven View Post
    I understand what you are trying to say, the line is just too fine for me to buy it. While I concede the Romney campaign had its share of flaws, I do not think a more appealing message would have made a difference in this election.
    Well... no one thing would've been enough to swing this election. There were too many problems, and I didn't list all of them. But even if the Republicans had a good candidate and good credibility, they still would've lost with their message. You can run on being against things, but if you're going to do that, you have to provide a clear and positive message of change to go with it. That's what Obama did first time around. And yeah, it was all BS, but it was effective.
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

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    Re: RNC to spend $10 million to reach minorities

    steeldawg
    There is no question businesses are hindered by the government, but lets not kid ourselves these corporations are not the heros that some people on this forum make them out to be.
    Damn gas companies.

    Who Really Gets rich off of a gallon of gas?

    Who Really Gets Rich Off High Gas Prices?

    Exxon made seven cents per gallon in 2011. Federal, state and local governments siphoned off 50 cents in taxes.
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...982418536.html
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    ....She'll make her way" ~ Natalie Merchant

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    Re: RNC to spend $10 million to reach minorities

    Quote Originally Posted by steeldawg View Post
    Where do you think our jobs come from who pays the wages, who else is gonna step up to the plate with good paying jobs??? Companies right now are stock piling cash and not hiring and yes its their right but that dosnt make it good for the economy. You cant have it both ways, you want less government, ok thats fine but if you want less government , less entightlement programs, we have to rely on private corporations to provide enough well paying jobs so people can survive. Not everyone can be a CEO or a business owner, we need factory workers, waiters, teachers, landscapers, all these little people doing these jobs are what makes this country go.
    Most jobs come from small businesses, not large corporations. And setting that aside, all businesses want to grow. They're not stagnating out of selfishness, but rather because the environment is bad for growth.
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

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    Re: RNC to spend $10 million to reach minorities

    Quote Originally Posted by GBMelBlount View Post
    I thought it was only companies whos initials started with G and E.


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    Re: RNC to spend $10 million to reach minorities

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    Most jobs come from small businesses, not large corporations. And setting that aside, all businesses want to grow. They're not stagnating out of selfishness, but rather because the environment is bad for growth.
    http://www.entrepreneur.com/blog/220616#
    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/24/op...-recovery.html

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    Re: RNC to spend $10 million to reach minorities

    The first article is comparing apples to schnauzers. "Business income" has nothing to do with employment. And the second article proves my point: Half of the American workforce is employed by businesses of 500 employees or less. The other half are divided between large corporations and the government.
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

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    Re: RNC to spend $10 million to reach minorities

    Quote Originally Posted by GBMelBlount View Post
    Ya its sucks they were only turning 10 billion dollars in profit per quarter that year, must be tough

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    Re: RNC to spend $10 million to reach minorities

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    The first article is comparing apples to schnauzers. "Business income" has nothing to do with employment. And the second article proves my point: Half of the American workforce is employed by businesses of 500 employees or less. The other half are divided between large corporations and the government.
    I guess you will see it how you want to see it but half the workforce doesn't mean small business employs most of our workforce to me. And since only 23% of small businesses actually have employees i will still contend that its up to large business to provide adequate wages.

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    Re: RNC to spend $10 million to reach minorities

    Quote Originally Posted by steeldawg View Post
    I guess you will see it how you want to see it but half the workforce doesn't mean small business employs most of our workforce to me. And since only 23% of small businesses actually have employees i will still contend that its up to large business to provide adequate wages.
    Uhh... Okay?
    And the second part of my comment?
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

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    Re: RNC to spend $10 million to reach minorities

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    Uhh... Okay?
    And the second part of my comment?
    Just a guess

    Small business - 50%

    Big corps - 25%

    Government - 25%

    Yep he's right small business does not supply the most jobs.


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    Re: RNC to spend $10 million to reach minorities

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    Uhh... Okay?
    And the second part of my comment?
    half is half its not most im not sure whats confusing about that? Regardless of the size of businesses the original thought was if you want less government and less entightlements then people have to have wages that they can live on, and i agreed less regulation on businesses but does that transalate into more higher paying jobs or just higher stock prices?

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    Re: RNC to spend $10 million to reach minorities

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach1 View Post
    Just a guess

    Small business - 50%

    Big corps - 25%

    Government - 25%

    Yep he's right small business does not supply the most jobs.
    That's not the part that bugs me. The part where I get lost is "they need to step up to the plate". As if they're gonna do something that impacts their bottom line out of the kindness of their cold, dark, corporate hearts.
    It doesn't work that way. Any business (large, small, or otherwise) will jump at the chance to expand, but they *must* have a favorable economic outlook and a profitable business model before they're gonna do that.
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

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    Re: RNC to spend $10 million to reach minorities

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach1 View Post
    Just a guess

    Small business - 50%

    Big corps - 25%

    Government - 25%

    Yep he's right small business does not supply the most jobs.

    Its still 50%

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    Re: RNC to spend $10 million to reach minorities

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    That's not the part that bugs me. The part where I get lost is "they need to step up to the plate". As if they're gonna do something that impacts their bottom line out of the kindness of their cold, dark, corporate hearts.
    It doesn't work that way. Any business (large, small, or otherwise) will jump at the chance to expand, but they *must* have a favorable economic outlook and a profitable business model before they're gonna do that.
    Thats the big part right now. With hopey destroying the country the business outlook isn't to good.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by steeldawg View Post
    Its still 50%
    Which is still more than big corps or governments contribution.


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    Re: RNC to spend $10 million to reach minorities

    Quote Originally Posted by steeldawg View Post
    I guess you will see it how you want to see it but half the workforce doesn't mean small business employs most of our workforce to me. And since only 23% of small businesses actually have employees i will still contend that its up to large business to provide adequate wages.
    There, my friend, is the blindness of entitlement. It is up to the individual to make something of themselves, and NOT rely on government, big business, small business. No one controls your future, unless you hand them the reigns.

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    Help me out here guys, but is not the Affordable Health Care Act (or whatever it is called) a disincentive to hiring more people?

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    Re: RNC to spend $10 million to reach minorities

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Steeler View Post
    There, my friend, is the blindness of entitlement. It is up to the individual to make something of themselves, and NOT rely on government, big business, small business. No one controls your future, unless you hand them the reigns.

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    Help me out here guys, but is not the Affordable Health Care Act (or whatever it is called) a disincentive to hiring more people?
    I know I wont be going over 49 anytime soon.
    Even the extra costs/taxes are a major hindrance especially if you deal any with the medical field.


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