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Thread: Should Shanahan have pulled R.G. III earlier?

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    Re: Should Shanahan have pulled R.G. III earliar?

    Quote Originally Posted by zulater View Post
    It's easy to ignore those that don't have a valid point to offer. There was no valid criticism for removing R.G.III after it became evident that he was no longer able to play at an acceptable level. Head willing, body not. Real simple answer.
    Seems simple, but it's not. That's why I asked if maybe you're naive.

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    Re: Should Shanahan have pulled R.G. III earlier?

    RG III should have come out of the game
    http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post...ut-of-the-game


    He should have come out of the game. It's really that simple, and it's not hindsight.

    Anybody who watched Washington Redskins quarterback Robert Griffin III hobble through the second and third quarters of his team's season-ending 24-14 playoff loss to the Seattle Seahawks on Sunday at FedEx Field could see that (A) he was badly hurt and (B) he was hurting his team's chances.

    It's not a second-guess. I sat next to John Clayton all game, and he can assure you that I was saying the same thing in the second quarter and the third quarter that I was saying in the fourth, when Griffin's injured right knee finally collapsed like a tower of Legos and the situation went from clear to absurdly obvious.

    "If you didn't pull him out then," Redskins coach Mike Shanahan said, "then you should get fired."

    Clearly, but prior to that point there were many at which Shanahan could and should have made the decision to pull Griffin and replace him with backup Kirk Cousins. He admitted after the game that the choice was difficult and that he wasn't sure even in retrospect that he'd chosen well.

    "Very tough decision, and you've got to go with your gut," Shanahan said. "I'm not saying my gut is always right. I'll probably second-guess myself."

    He should, because his gut was wrong. Deciding to keep Griffin in the game when he was clearly (A) injured and (B) not helping Washington move the ball was the decision that ended this Redskins season and could put part of the next one in jeopardy. Asked after the game if he thought he might have torn his right ACL -- something he did in college and therefore knows how it feels -- Griffin said, "Honestly, it's up in the air for me right now."


    RG III's Performance Vs Seattle
    Already hobbled by a knee injury, Robert Griffin III was not the same after making a running throw with 3:23 left in the first quarter.

    1st Quarter Rest of Game
    Comp-Att 6-9 4-10
    Pass yds 68 16
    TD-Int 2-0 0-1
    Total QBR 97.1 5.9

    I believe Shanahan will kick himself about that decision for a long time to come, and for many reasons. What's amazing is that in failing to make the correct long-term decision he also failed to make the correct short-term one. The Redskins were moving the ball as if in their wildest dreams against the Seahawks in the first quarter, rolling up 129 yards on 20 plays and racing out to a 14-0 lead. Griffin got hurt at the end of the second touchdown drive, and in the final three quarters combined the Redskins gained 74 yards on 34 plays. Regardless of what Griffin says, his inability to move inside or outside the pocket mattered. Redskins tight end Logan Paulsen admitted that "It took a few things out of the playbook."

    Seahawks cornerback Richard Sherman said, "He wasn't able to take as many shots downfield."

    There was a stadium full of people who could tell the Redskins' offense was impotent with this shell of Griffin operating it, yet Shanahan didn't decide to go to Cousins (a guy who has shown he can win games in Griffin's place) until it finally appeared that Griffin might not be able to get up.

    "It was hard to watch RG III," Seahawks coach Pete Carroll said. "He was gallant."

    No one's disputing that. It's Griffin's job to be gallant and tough and determined and all of the great things everybody was calling him after the game for his refusal to leave it. But it's Shanahan's job to make the clear-headed decision to overrule the 22-year-old superstar who wants to believe he's invincible. I do not know if Cousins would have done better against the Seahawks' defense in those final three quarters. I do feel confident in saying he couldn't have done worse. And even if he hadn't been an improvement, we wouldn't be sitting here right now thinking about how many games Griffin will have to miss in September and October if he has in fact torn his ACL.


    This guy makes my argument better than I can. And with that now I can bid this thread adieu. ( except as a spectator and quick redress)
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

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    Re: Should Shanahan have pulled R.G. III earlier?

    I really don't see what the harm would have been to play Cousins in the 2nd quarter and give RGIII a rest. They were up 14-0, you can run the ball, give Cousins a series or 2 and re evaluate.

    If they were trailing or tied, different story. Up 2 scores, see if Cousins can take you home and save RGIII for the following week.

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    Re: Should Shanahan have pulled R.G. III earlier?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chidi29 View Post
    And I never said they weren't valid. They are good points. A lot of QBs get benched at that point.

    But I don't think he was as hurt as some think after that second serious. Was he in pain? Yes. But he could still move around enough to drop back in the pocket and play from there. Then his knee gives out and then everyone calls for Shanahan's head, as if he had a crystal ball or something.

    And again, the doctors had to have cleared him. Griffin went back to the locker room after that second series with the doctors to get an MRI. Obviously nothing too serious came up in the results. No tears.
    1st quarter 6-9 68 yards 2 td 0 int 97.1 rtg

    rest of game. 4-10 16 yards, 0 td 1 int 5.9 rtg
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

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    Re: Should Shanahan have pulled R.G. III earlier?

    Quote Originally Posted by zulater View Post
    RG III should have come out of the game
    http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post...ut-of-the-game


    He should have come out of the game. It's really that simple, and it's not hindsight.

    Anybody who watched Washington Redskins quarterback Robert Griffin III hobble through the second and third quarters of his team's season-ending 24-14 playoff loss to the Seattle Seahawks on Sunday at FedEx Field could see that (A) he was badly hurt and (B) he was hurting his team's chances.

    It's not a second-guess. I sat next to John Clayton all game, and he can assure you that I was saying the same thing in the second quarter and the third quarter that I was saying in the fourth, when Griffin's injured right knee finally collapsed like a tower of Legos and the situation went from clear to absurdly obvious.

    "If you didn't pull him out then," Redskins coach Mike Shanahan said, "then you should get fired."

    Clearly, but prior to that point there were many at which Shanahan could and should have made the decision to pull Griffin and replace him with backup Kirk Cousins. He admitted after the game that the choice was difficult and that he wasn't sure even in retrospect that he'd chosen well.

    "Very tough decision, and you've got to go with your gut," Shanahan said. "I'm not saying my gut is always right. I'll probably second-guess myself."

    He should, because his gut was wrong. Deciding to keep Griffin in the game when he was clearly (A) injured and (B) not helping Washington move the ball was the decision that ended this Redskins season and could put part of the next one in jeopardy. Asked after the game if he thought he might have torn his right ACL -- something he did in college and therefore knows how it feels -- Griffin said, "Honestly, it's up in the air for me right now."


    RG III's Performance Vs Seattle
    Already hobbled by a knee injury, Robert Griffin III was not the same after making a running throw with 3:23 left in the first quarter.

    1st Quarter Rest of Game
    Comp-Att 6-9 4-10
    Pass yds 68 16
    TD-Int 2-0 0-1
    Total QBR 97.1 5.9

    I believe Shanahan will kick himself about that decision for a long time to come, and for many reasons. What's amazing is that in failing to make the correct long-term decision he also failed to make the correct short-term one. The Redskins were moving the ball as if in their wildest dreams against the Seahawks in the first quarter, rolling up 129 yards on 20 plays and racing out to a 14-0 lead. Griffin got hurt at the end of the second touchdown drive, and in the final three quarters combined the Redskins gained 74 yards on 34 plays. Regardless of what Griffin says, his inability to move inside or outside the pocket mattered. Redskins tight end Logan Paulsen admitted that "It took a few things out of the playbook."

    Seahawks cornerback Richard Sherman said, "He wasn't able to take as many shots downfield."

    There was a stadium full of people who could tell the Redskins' offense was impotent with this shell of Griffin operating it, yet Shanahan didn't decide to go to Cousins (a guy who has shown he can win games in Griffin's place) until it finally appeared that Griffin might not be able to get up.

    "It was hard to watch RG III," Seahawks coach Pete Carroll said. "He was gallant."

    No one's disputing that. It's Griffin's job to be gallant and tough and determined and all of the great things everybody was calling him after the game for his refusal to leave it. But it's Shanahan's job to make the clear-headed decision to overrule the 22-year-old superstar who wants to believe he's invincible. I do not know if Cousins would have done better against the Seahawks' defense in those final three quarters. I do feel confident in saying he couldn't have done worse. And even if he hadn't been an improvement, we wouldn't be sitting here right now thinking about how many games Griffin will have to miss in September and October if he has in fact torn his ACL.


    This guy makes my argument better than I can. And with that now I can bid this thread adieu. ( except as a spectator)
    Same guy wrote this at half-time:

    The question is, whenever the Redskins get the ball back in the second half, what will they do about quarterback? They're either going to have to adjust the offense around an obviously limited Griffin or think about replacing him with backup Kirk Cousins, who finished the Week 14 game and won the Week 15 game in Cleveland with Griffin sitting out due to the knee injury. It would be a tough decision to switch to the backup quarterback in the second half of a playoff game, but the Redskins must make an honest assessment of Griffin's ability to perform at the level at which they need him, or they risk seeing their season end today.

    http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post...rg-iii-hold-up

    Not exactly a definitive "Take RG III out of the game now!" like he implies in his follow-up article So, to me this is exactly hindsight.

    - - - Updated - - -

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    Re: Should Shanahan have pulled R.G. III earlier?

    Quote Originally Posted by zulater View Post
    1st quarter 6-9 68 yards 2 td 0 int 97.1 rtg

    rest of game. 4-10 16 yards, 0 td 1 int 5.9 rtg
    I doubt anyone in game was basing it off stats. They base it off what they saw. And that's what I'm doing too.

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    Re: Should Shanahan have pulled R.G. III earlier?

    Quote Originally Posted by zulater View Post
    1st quarter 6-9 68 yards 2 td 0 int 97.1 rtg

    rest of game. 4-10 16 yards, 0 td 1 int 5.9 rtg
    only 10 pass attemps....

    I do not think that Cousins ​​would have been better.....The seahawks have the best defense in the NFL this year

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    Re: Should Shanahan have pulled R.G. III earlier?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chidi29 View Post
    I doubt anyone in game was basing it off stats. They base it off what they saw. And that's what I'm doing too.

    I believe Shanahan will kick himself about that decision for a long time to come, and for many reasons. What's amazing is that in failing to make the correct long-term decision he also failed to make the correct short-term one. The Redskins were moving the ball as if in their wildest dreams against the Seahawks in the first quarter, rolling up 129 yards on 20 plays and racing out to a 14-0 lead. Griffin got hurt at the end of the second touchdown drive, and in the final three quarters combined the Redskins gained 74 yards on 34 plays. Regardless of what Griffin says, his inability to move inside or outside the pocket mattered. Redskins tight end Logan Paulsen admitted that "It took a few things out of the playbook."

    Seahawks cornerback Richard Sherman said, "He wasn't able to take as many shots downfield."

    There was a stadium full of people who could tell the Redskins' offense was impotent with this shell of Griffin operating it, yet Shanahan didn't decide to go to Cousins (a guy who has shown he can win games in Griffin's place) until it finally appeared that Griffin might not be able to get up.

    "It was hard to watch RG III," Seahawks coach Pete Carroll said. "He was gallant."




    This is what I saw. 74 yards of offense on 34 plays and 0 points after reaggravating his injury. So what exactly did you see that compels you to believe he was doing ok?
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

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    Re: Should Shanahan have pulled R.G. III earlier?

    By the way. Of the 74 yards of offense the Skins put up in the final 3 quarters. 31 came with Cousins in on the final two possessions. So R.G. III provided 43 yards of offense on his final 63 plays.

    So in answer to a point Polamala Beast made.

    Yeah I do think Cousins could have done better.
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

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    Re: Should Shanahan have pulled R.G. III earlier?

    Quote Originally Posted by zulater View Post
    By the way. Of the 74 yards of offense the Skins put up in the final 3 quarters. 31 came with Cousins in on the final two possessions. So R.G. III provided 43 yards of offense on his final 63 plays.

    So in answer to a point Polamala Beast made.

    Yeah I do think Cousins could have done better.
    This is possible,but at the same time,the seahawks was in prevent defense in the last 2 drives

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    Re: Should Shanahan have pulled R.G. III earlier?

    Quote Originally Posted by zulater View Post
    By the way. Of the 74 yards of offense the Skins put up in the final 3 quarters. 31 came with Cousins in on the final two possessions. So R.G. III provided 43 yards of offense on his final 63 plays.

    So in answer to a point Polamala Beast made.

    Yeah I do think Cousins could have done better.
    That's not really an honest assessment as it's being based on the Redskins need to throw the football and not their regular offense. Same can be said of the difference in defense. The fact is, none of us knows for sure what may have been.

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    Re: Should Shanahan have pulled R.G. III earlier?

    Quote Originally Posted by zulater View Post
    I believe Shanahan will kick himself about that decision for a long time to come, and for many reasons. What's amazing is that in failing to make the correct long-term decision he also failed to make the correct short-term one. The Redskins were moving the ball as if in their wildest dreams against the Seahawks in the first quarter, rolling up 129 yards on 20 plays and racing out to a 14-0 lead. Griffin got hurt at the end of the second touchdown drive, and in the final three quarters combined the Redskins gained 74 yards on 34 plays. Regardless of what Griffin says, his inability to move inside or outside the pocket mattered. Redskins tight end Logan Paulsen admitted that "It took a few things out of the playbook."

    Seahawks cornerback Richard Sherman said, "He wasn't able to take as many shots downfield."

    There was a stadium full of people who could tell the Redskins' offense was impotent with this shell of Griffin operating it, yet Shanahan didn't decide to go to Cousins (a guy who has shown he can win games in Griffin's place) until it finally appeared that Griffin might not be able to get up.

    "It was hard to watch RG III," Seahawks coach Pete Carroll said. "He was gallant."




    This is what I saw. 74 yards of offense on 34 plays and 0 points after reaggravating his injury. So what exactly did you see that compels you to believe he was doing ok?
    First off, those stats are lazily done because they take into account for the snaps Cousins got at the end. I did the math and the yards per play with just Griffin under center come at the same as the ones in the article, but he loses a lot of credibility for being lazy with the numbers.

    I just went back and watched each throw Griffin attempted. But we have to look at other things.

    Washington barely had the ball. And a couple times, were backed up in their own end zone. So that makes it tough on any QB and forces shorter throws, one possible reason why they didn't go downfield as much. Seattle dominated TOP.

    And I really only saw one throw where his accuracy looked abnormally bad where you can point to the knee as being the first and most logical explanation. Leonard Hankerson dropped a third down pass that hit right off his hands that would have put the Redskins near mid-field. But no one will talk about that.

    Now clearly, Griffin was in pain. Not "discomfort" like what Aikman said. He was fighting pain. And it limited him. But he was still able to drop into the pocket quickly, scramble a little bit, run once (for nine yards), bend his knee, throw a pass 50 yards, and jog onto/off of the field. When you talk about a guy that has made play after play each year, a player that as a coach, you've put so much trust in, I can understand keeping in the biggest game for your team. I can also understand taking him out.

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    Re: Should Shanahan have pulled R.G. III earlier?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chidi29 View Post
    First off, those stats are lazily done because they take into account for the snaps Cousins got at the end. I did the math and the yards per play with just Griffin under center come at the same as the ones in the article, but he loses a lot of credibility for being lazy with the numbers.

    I just went back and watched each throw Griffin attempted. But we have to look at other things.

    Washington barely had the ball. And a couple times, were backed up in their own end zone. So that makes it tough on any QB and forces shorter throws, one possible reason why they didn't go downfield as much. Seattle dominated TOP.

    And I really only saw one throw where his accuracy looked abnormally bad where you can point to the knee as being the first and most logical explanation. Leonard Hankerson dropped a third down pass that hit right off his hands that would have put the Redskins near mid-field. But no one will talk about that.

    Now clearly, Griffin was in pain. Not "discomfort" like what Aikman said. He was fighting pain. And it limited him. But he was still able to drop into the pocket quickly, scramble a little bit, run once (for nine yards), bend his knee, throw a pass 50 yards, and jog onto/off of the field. When you talk about a guy that has made play after play each year, a player that as a coach, you've put so much trust in, I can understand keeping in the biggest game for your team. I can also understand taking him out.
    My God Chidi! You sure are ... thorough! That's my nice way of saying you have way too much time on your hands.

    Not sure what you do for a living, but I hope it's in research or sports or both.

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    Re: Should Shanahan have pulled R.G. III earlier?

    Quote Originally Posted by polamalubeast View Post
    This is possible,but at the same time,the seahawks was in prevent defense in the last 2 drives
    I'll take a healthy R.G.III over Cousins every time. It goes without saying. I'll take R.G. III in the first quarter over Cousins as well. I'll even take him in the second quarter. But at the some point in the 2nd half I think it became readily evident that Griffin just wasn't up to the job due to the pain he was experiencing with that knee.

    So at some point it has to be next man up and hope for the best. Because your guy just isn't able to get the job done today.
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

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    Re: Should Shanahan have pulled R.G. III earlier?

    It's easy to throw out the "4/10" and the "74 yards" after the fact and make a decision based off of it, as if Shanahan can see the future and see that Griffin's leg gives out.

    It's much harder to make those decisions when Griffin is 2/4 or the team has had just two bad series.

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    Re: Should Shanahan have pulled R.G. III earlier?

    Now clearly, Griffin was in pain. Not "discomfort" like what Aikman said. He was fighting pain. And it limited him. But he was still able to drop into the pocket quickly, scramble a little bit, run once (for nine yards), bend his knee, throw a pass 50 yards, and jog onto/off of the field. When you talk about a guy that has made play after play each year, a player that as a coach, you've put so much trust in, I can understand keeping in the biggest game for your team. I can also understand taking him out.
    If charlie Batch was option B I could more easily see your point. But Cousins played well cold against the Ravens, and then did a pretty damn good job in Cleveland, which isn't as easy as people would like to think.

    So to me being as you've got a guy on the bench who's answered the bell admirably each time you went to him I think it makes the answer that much easiar in that situation.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Chidi29 View Post
    It's easy to throw out the "4/10" and the "74 yards" after the fact and make a decision based off of it, as if Shanahan can see the future and see that Griffin's leg gives out.

    It's much harder to make those decisions when Griffin is 2/4 or the team has had just two bad series.
    It wasn't just the stats for me. I saw a guy who just didn't look like he neccessarily belonged on the field.
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

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    Re: Should Shanahan have pulled R.G. III earlier?

    It sounds like the way we're approaching it is different.

    I'm not really thinking about Cousins or who my backup is. Because it doesn't matter if I think Griffin is well enough to play. And if I come to the conclusion of "yes" each time, then I stick with Griffin. Because he is my starter and the guy I've built this team around.

    - - - Updated - - -

    You sure went after the stats pretty hard, with the repeating and bolding/underlining.

    Like I said, I know he wasn't RGIII, but I can only pinpoint one throw after the aggravation where it really looked like the knee caused it. The INT was throwing a deep ball against a well covered receiver with a safety over the top. He threw across his body in another instance. A couple swing passes were stopped at the LOS by a good play by the corner. A crucial 3rd down pass should have been caught.

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    Re: Should Shanahan have pulled R.G. III earlier?

    As a coach, you don't ever want to rely strictly or even primarily on the word of an injured player. Competitors wont ever take themselves out of a game, because they don't want to be seen as quitters by their teammates and by others around the league. Particularly in a playoff game. Look how Jay Cutler and LaDainlian Tomlinson's reps suffered after they failed to answer the bell in a playoff game.

    So to me Shanahan shouldn't even bring that up after the game.

    If he liked what he was seeing from his qb and thought he was just a play or series from turning things around say so. But by bringing up R.G's desire to stay in it comes across as excuse making to me.
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

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    Re: Should Shanahan have pulled R.G. III earlier?

    Quote Originally Posted by zulater View Post
    As a coach, you don't ever want to rely strictly or even primarily on the word of an injured player. Competitors wont ever take themselves out of a game, because they don't want to be seen as quitters by their teammates and by others around the league. Particularly in a playoff game. Look how Jay Cutler and LaDainlian Tomlinson's reps suffered after they failed to answer the bell in a playoff game.

    So to me Shanahan shouldn't even bring that up after the game.

    If he liked what he was seeing from his qb and thought he was just a play or series from turning things around say so. But by bringing up R.G's desire to stay in it comes across as excuse making to me.
    Correct.

    Not exactly.

    Competitors want to be in there because they know they're the best player to get it done. That's what makes them great competitors.

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    Re: Should Shanahan have pulled R.G. III earlier?

    Quote Originally Posted by zulater View Post
    As a coach, you don't ever want to rely strictly or even primarily on the word of an injured player. Competitors wont ever take themselves out of a game, because they don't want to be seen as quitters by their teammates and by others around the league. Particularly in a playoff game. Look how Jay Cutler and LaDainlian Tomlinson's reps suffered after they failed to answer the bell in a playoff game.

    So to me Shanahan shouldn't even bring that up after the game.

    If he liked what he was seeing from his qb and thought he was just a play or series from turning things around say so. But by bringing up R.G's desire to stay in it comes across as excuse making to me.
    Well I think that is part of the equation for every QB. Tomlin talks about it all the time, especially when it came up with Ben's injury. Tomlin asks players if they're good or not but also thinks he has a good feel if they're being honest. Obviously, Shanahan thought Griffin has telling the truth.

    And it isn't solely what Griffin says. It's what the doctors say (again, had to have cleared him after they took him back to the locker room. And that's Dr. Andrews doing that who made it evident he was very nervous about Griffin playing the past few games) combined with what Shanahan thinks.

    I'm saying that Griffin is your starter and if he is good enough to be in the game, then he will. That's why he's your starter.

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    Re: Should Shanahan have pulled R.G. III earlier?

    Quote Originally Posted by NJarhead View Post
    Correct.

    Not exactly.

    Competitors want to be in there because they know they're the best player to get it done. That's what makes them great competitors.
    Of course that's part of it too. But they also have a blind eye to their own failings and will drag themselves on to the field as long as their body and coach will allow it. Even if it's hurting the team.

    We've seen it first hand more than once with Ben.

    Obviously it's relevant to ask a player this, because if he says he can't go well then you know you can't put him in.

    But if he says he can go, but his play is telling you otherwise. Trust what you see of his play.
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

  22. #52
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    Re: Should Shanahan have pulled R.G. III earlier?

    Didn't the 2nd TD come after the injury as well?

  23. #53
    Spaghetti Time Array title="Chidi29 has a reputation beyond repute"> Chidi29's Avatar

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    Re: Should Shanahan have pulled R.G. III earlier?

    Quote Originally Posted by GodfatherofSoul View Post
    Didn't the 2nd TD come after the injury as well?
    Yes.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by GodfatherofSoul View Post
    Didn't the 2nd TD come after the injury as well?
    Yes.

  24. #54
    Spaghetti Time Array title="Chidi29 has a reputation beyond repute"> Chidi29's Avatar

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    Re: Should Shanahan have pulled R.G. III earlier?

    Just listened to Shanahan's press conference. MRI yesterday was inconclusive because of previous injuries, going to visit Andrews in Florida for further testing.

    -----

    Doesn't sound very good though. If it is a torn ACL, it'll be the second in that knee in his career.

    I made a mistake earlier. Apparently Griffin did not have an MRI after he went to the locker room the first time. Just got re-tapped. My apologies.

    The Shanahan/Andrews story is getting more and more interesting. Obviously as you guys heard, Shanahan says Andrews cleared him in Week 14, Andrews said he never even talked to Griffin before RG3 returned. Shanahan attempted to clarify today saying that Griffin goes off, Shanahan is focused on Kirk Cousins and what's happening on the filed, sees Griffin come back out, and asks Andrews if he was good to go back in. Doctor says "yes".

    So one of two things. Neither sit well with me or any fan I imagine.

    1. Shanahan is still lying. Andrews never cleared him and never told the coach that he did.

    2. Andrews "cleared" the player without talking to him.

  25. #55
    Senior Member Array title="steeldawg is a jewel in the rough">

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    Re: Should Shanahan have pulled R.G. III earlier?

    If shannahan pulls RGIII and RGIII says he could of played and the redskins lost with cousins especially being up 14-0 shannahan would of gotten crushed. The guy wanted to play, he was cleared medically, he played the prior two weeks on the same knee why now would you pull him out in your most important game. Its easy to question shannahan after the fact but i have no problem with the desicion.

  26. #56
    Senior Member Array title="steelreserve has a reputation beyond repute"> steelreserve's Avatar

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    Re: Should Shanahan have pulled R.G. III earlier?

    I think he should've taken him out, not because of injury fear but because of ineffectiveness. It was like watching Ben in the 49ers game last year. He obviously was way too impaired to be out there and give them a chance.
    See you Space Cowboy ...

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    Senior Member Array title="zulater has a reputation beyond repute"> zulater's Avatar

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    Re: Should Shanahan have pulled R.G. III earlier?

    Quote Originally Posted by GodfatherofSoul View Post
    Didn't the 2nd TD come after the injury as well?
    One play after. And to that point he was running well enough to sell play action. After that the Seahawks figured out that they really didn't have to spend too much effort taking away the qb run.

    And yeah I know all about his 9 yard run. Give charlie Batch that same look and he gets 20. If anything that run only proved further how incapacited he was.

    If you think the final 3 quarters were reflective of what R.G. III is about then he's a pretty bad qb.
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

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    Re: Should Shanahan have pulled R.G. III earlier?

    Quote Originally Posted by steeldawg View Post
    If shannahan pulls RGIII and RGIII says he could of played and the redskins lost with cousins especially being up 14-0 shannahan would of gotten crushed. The guy wanted to play, he was cleared medically, he played the prior two weeks on the same knee why now would you pull him out in your most important game. Its easy to question shannahan after the fact but i have no problem with the desicion.
    100% agree

  29. #59
    Senior Member Array title="zulater has a reputation beyond repute"> zulater's Avatar

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    Re: Should Shanahan have pulled R.G. III earlier?

    Quote Originally Posted by steeldawg View Post
    If shannahan pulls RGIII and RGIII says he could of played and the redskins lost with cousins especially being up 14-0 shannahan would of gotten crushed. The guy wanted to play, he was cleared medically, he played the prior two weeks on the same knee why now would you pull him out in your most important game. Its easy to question shannahan after the fact but i have no problem with the desicion.
    It wasn't the "same knee" after he reaggravated the injury on the second to last play of the second drive. Had that not occured no one has any issue with Shanahan today and instead would be giving full credit to the Seahawks defense.

    But that play did happen. He clearly reaggravated the injury. He was in clear discomfort from that point on. And didn't play at close to the same level.


    So your failure to acknowledge that circumstance changed from the start of the game shows you either weren't watchin or paying attention to how things evolved as the evening wore on.
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

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    Senior Member Array title="zulater has a reputation beyond repute"> zulater's Avatar

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    Re: Should Shanahan have pulled R.G. III earlier?

    http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--ro...040938793.html


    Robert Griffin III couldn't lead the Washington Redskins' offense, not after his knee buckled in the first quarter of this NFC wild-card game against Seattle. A couple plays later Washington took a two-touchdown lead but the deal was done. It would gain just 41 yards over the next two and a half futile quarters with Griffin as quarterback, all but assuring Seattle's 24-14 victory.

    "I did put myself at more risk being out there," Griffin said.
    At least that was the truth, although he quickly reverted into more clichés.
    "But every time you step on the football field between those lines you're putting your life, your career [and] every single ligament in your body in jeopardy," RG3 said.

    Of course you can be injured at any moment. You can really get injured at any moment though when you can no longer move around and avoid hits.
    It was all a lie and that's why rookie quarterbacks aren't supposed to make the call. Coaches are.
    Griffin didn't have a coach Sunday.
    He had Mike Shanahan, who looked at this mess, looked at each hapless Redskins drive, looked at every painful RG3 step, looked at every awkward, overthrown pass, and instead bought Griffin's weak arguments and then closed his eyes and lied to himself that it would all turn out OK.
    Except it didn't. Not on the scoreboard. And not in Griffin's knee, which was eventually done in when he wasn't even capable of bending over and scooping up an errant snap in the fourth quarter. Instead a world-class athlete awkwardly reached until his right knee hyper-extended underneath him.
    He wound up in a heap on the turf, clutching that knee while Seattle recovered a gift fumble that led to an easy, game-clinching field goal.
    It was the final proof that he never should've been out there. And finally, too late, his day was done.


    "If you don't pull him out then, you should get fired," Shanahan said.
    Washington was in desperate need of such common sense long before that. It was desperate for Shanahan to pat this eager-to-please wunderkind on the back, show him the bench and insert the very capable backup, Kirk Cousins.
    Not just for the future of the franchise, although that would be enough. The Redskins needed it for the present opportunity to win Sunday's game.
    Instead it got silly discussions.
    "I talked to Robert and he said to me, 'Coach, there's a difference between being injured and being hurt,' " Shanahan relayed later. "He said, 'I can guarantee I'm hurt right now but give me the chance to win this football game because I guarantee I'm not injured.'
    "That," Shanahan said, "was enough for me."
    "He said to me, 'Trust me, I want to be in there and I deserve to be in there,'" Shanahan said. "And I couldn't disagree with him."
    Shanahan is paid to disagree with him. That's his job.
    At one point in the fourth quarter Shanahan decided he wanted to test if RG3 could still run, calling for a simple QB keeper. It was, on paper, effective, a 9-yard gain to the left. To see the play, however, was to see one of the greatest rushing machines in the league hobble to the outside, his knee practically wobbling on each step. It was strong blocking and the element of surprise that made it work.
    "I asked him about it at that time," Shanahan said. "He said, 'Coach, I could've run faster. Nobody was there. I got [9] yards. That's not too bad. I promise if I have to do it again I could go faster.
    "He gave me the right answer."
    That's only because Shanahan was asking the wrong question. Which is to say he wasn't asking any questions at all.
    On and on Shanahan's media conference went. The coach even unwittingly explained why he kept hearing the same answers from Griffin, when he took time to praise the very heart and fight of this prodigy and declared that a player who refuses to leave a game is "the type of player that you want." It's a circle of nonsense.
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

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