...can we please have Grimm back as OL Coach?
I know there are some naysayers who will say he wouldn't take a lessor job after being a potential candidate for HC before Tomlin snuck in - but those should recall Grimm saying he's a lunchbox kind of guy and will probably be back at some point.
I don't see Grimm as HC material. His name came up when Cowher retired, but I've never heard his name for consideration since.
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Couldn't be any worse.
All Defense!
Why? I don't remember the O-line playing well under Grimm. The Cardinals were dead last in rushing and sacks allowed. I am hoping Grimm goes to one of the Steelers division rivals.Originally Posted by The Bark
Hater = Realist
Grimm will probably follow Wisenhunt wherever Wisenhunt lands.
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i agree (lord forbid) steeldude Grimm had great Oline to coach, but the longer he was here it seems like the worse they got.
For those i love i will sacrifice.
Si ventus non est, remiga
the time is now. lets give tunch an offer he cant resist
Maybe because he made Willie Parker look good.
For a short synopsis, from wiki:
Under Grimm guidance in 2005, the Super Bowl champion Steelers averaged nearly 140 yards rushing per game during the regular season to rank fifth in the NFL while also grinding out 181 rushing yards in their Super Bowl XL victory over the Seattle Seahawks. In 2006 Steelers offensive line helped pave the way for running back Willie Parker to gain 1,494 yards and 13 touchdowns on 337 carries with 4.4 yard avg. and earn his first Pro Bowl selection. Pittsburgh offense finished the 2006 season with the 10th best rushing attack in the NFL, helping to give the Steelers the 7th ranked total offense in the league. Parker finished the season with the second and third top rushing performances of the year in the NFL with 223 rushing yards 32 att., TD against Cleveland Browns and 213 yards with 22 att, 2 TD vs. New Orleans Saints.
In his first season in Arizona, his offensive line allowed only 24 sacks, 6th best in the NFL and the fewest given up by the Cardinals since 1978 with 22. Grimm’s offensive line also paved the way for running back Edgerrin James to rush for 1,222 yards, the fifth best total in team history. The Cardinals offense finished with the 5th best passing attack in the NFL and threw for a team record 32 touchdowns.
Sure, there's all sorts of intangibles involved, but the bottom line is the guy is a hall of famer, has four superbowl rings and was part of the vaunted Redskins O-Line in his heyday making the pro bowl numerous times. That's a lot of experience and knowledge to share.
Really think he wants to come back to Pittsburgh and work for the guy who got the job over him? Not gonna happen.
Let's see, last I checked he's unemployed. I'm going off his quote when he left, that he could see himself coming back someday - that he fit in Pittsburgh and is from the area, and that there's obviously worse candidates. As it stands, there's a lot of chatter in Buffalo as him being a HC candidate, much like he was a few years ago.
Let's also recall Whisenhunt made his decision before Tomlin was named coach - whether Grimm would have stayed on his own accord or if Tomlin would have kept him is all speculation. Whisenhunt offered him the same position and let us not forget Grimm also interviewed for the Cardinals HC position, so your logic that he wouldn't work for a guy who got the job over him pretty much fails.
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No way.
2012: 32nd rushing attack and 32nd in sacks allowed
2011: 24th rushing attack and 31st in sacks allowed
2010: 32nd rushing attack and 30th in sacks allowed
2009: 28th rushing attack and 6th in sacks allowed
2008: 32nd rushing attack and 11th in sacks allowed
2007: 29th rushing attack and 8th in sacks allowed
Kurt Warner retired at the end of 2009.
Playing on a SB team does not always translate into being a good coach. He was here before and I was not impressed. I would rather the Steelers look elsewhere.
Hater = Realist
Grimm has been a HORRIBLE line coach in Arizona. HORRIBLE!! Perhaps the worst in the league. No thank you.
Enthroned Into The Good Old Boys Club - 2024
I'll counter all you've just mentioned with two words (again):
WILLIE PARKER
I haven't followed the Cardinals so to be honest, I don't know how those stats translate. My guess is with Fitz being one of the top receivers, they've skewed their offense heavily toward the pass which might explain both the propensity for higher sack ratio and lower run ratio.
And to answer that question, this year they were dead last in attempts @ 352 and in the top 10 (9) in pass attempts.
Willie was running behind oh, let's see, Sean Mahan, Marvel Smith, Kendell Simmons, Kemoatu, Hartwig, Stapleton, etc. The only bright spots were Hartings and Faneca, both in the twilight of their careers.
And you're measuring the success of the offensive line by...? The execution of several lowly QB's and a makeshift running back corps who had the lowest rushing attempts in the league this year?
I'll submit this link for your consideration:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...-issue-in-2012
In the end, Grimm can only work with what he's given. If the GM doesn't feel like utilizing top picks on the OL, then it's up to coaches to get the most out of what they have. Same thing in Pittsburgh - the line was neglected for several years in the draft and look what happened.
http://nesn.com/2012/10/cardinals-nf...art-to-season/
There's just too many intangibles to lay blame on ONE coach, nor should they receive ALL the credit when there's success.
So....by this logic, we should also see if Larry Zierlein is available, since Willie Parker had just as much success under him....
Also, Mahan, Kemo, Stapleton were only starters under Zierlein's coaching, NOT Grimm.
Yes, you are correct about those starting under Zierlein's coaching - but Parker only had one good year under him in 2007 after which Faneca left. But even in that year his numbers were declining across the board.
CAREER STATSMORE Season Team Rushing Receiving Fumbles G GS Att Yds Avg Lng TD Rec Yds Avg Lng TD FUM Lost 2009 Pittsburgh Steelers 14 3 98 389 4.0 34 0 6 64 10.7 27T 1 2 1 2008 Pittsburgh Steelers 11 11 210 791 3.8 34T 5 3 13 4.3 5 0 -- -- 2007 Pittsburgh Steelers 15 15 321 1,316 4.1 32 2 23 164 7.1 22 0 4 3 2006 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 16 337 1,494 4.4 76 13 31 222 7.2 25T 3 7 5 2005 Pittsburgh Steelers 15 15 255 1,202 4.7 80T 4 18 218 12.1 48 1 4 0 2004 Pittsburgh Steelers 8 0 32 186 5.8 58 0 3 16 5.3 12 0 -- -- TOTAL 1,253 5,378 4.3 80 24 84 697 8.3 48 5 17 9
Again, there are too many intangibles - I just think it's awfully ignorant to look at Grimm's entire body of work and not want to consider him back if he's not considered for a head coaching position elsewhere.
But, you know what... you guys are right. Tomlin has this team under control and I'm sure his GM and he will find a suitable offensive line coach as they were able to find a highly touted offensive coordinator.
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I would rather look forward.
Yeah! My new nook works! Now that the season is over, I can finally post from my couch in front of the tv. I can have twitter updates on my phone while I'm in the gameday chat. Is it September yet????????
Bark, I absolutely respect your opinion, especially since you have taken the time to back it up with facts. I do think, however, that Tomlin and co. did a fine job hiring Haley, since it seemed that the offense was starting to gel up until Ben's injury this year. Whatever happens, it will be a fun offseason, I think.Again, there are too many intangibles - I just think it's awfully ignorant to look at Grimm's entire body of work and not want to consider him back if he's not considered for a head coaching position elsewhere.
But, you know what... you guys are right. Tomlin has this team under control and I'm sure his GM and he will find a suitable offensive line coach as they were able to find a highly touted offensive coordinator.
I don't have any problems with Haley's offense. As I noted, he came highly touted. It takes time for adjustments and I believe, without looking it up, in his prior stints as coordinator, his teams excelled in their second seasons. I have no reason to believe the same won't be true here, particularly with a health(ier) offensive line and a more stable running game. My only complaint was play-action all but disappeared and it's not mandatory to run the ball consistently or effectively to employ it.
I have faith they will find someone very capable of coaching the line, I'm just miffed at all dislike/disrespect toward Grimm and find it confusing.
I don't think you can point to Willie Parker as evidence that the O-Line coach was good. Parker got a lot of yards against garbage teams, but our running game sucked when we needed it, and we led the league in sacks allowed just about always. Not terribly impressive.
The one good thing I see coming out of this is that maybe Arizona will stop taking all our free agents. I mean, they mostly took castoffs, but a they also ALWAYS seemed to snag our second CB just as he was developing into an OK player.
See you Space Cowboy ...
Last I heard Whiz was the only one fired...generally they let the new HC decide who stays and goes from the other staff...unless the team comes out and says EVERYONE is fired. But I dont think I'd want him back...I dunno...
Those dismissed included assistant head coach/offensive line coach Russ Grimm, offensive coordinator Mike Miller, offensive quality control coach Chad Grimm, quarterbacks coach John McNulty, wide receivers coach Frank Reich and running backs coach Tommie Robinson. Tight ends coach Freddie Kitchens was the only coach on the offensive staff not fired....
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/87...unt-rod-graves
Hater = Realist
A couple of notes on Willie: if there was a hole, he broke it. Looking at his stats, in 2007 his longest run was (only) 32 yards. Either he was slowing down (probably) and/or the holes just were there (probably).
That being said, I'm sure we all know the old saying there's lies, damn lies, and statistics. Stats can be so misconstrued - for example, I kept track of Willie and found that if his longest run were removed from his game totals, deducting one carry, his ypc were downright abysmal. Back then, I used to be fond of saying "give me a real running back who is going to move the chains consistently by running 4+ yards per carry" because Willie wasn't that back. He would just break one long once or twice a game and his stats would be inflated as a result - but he wasn't the kind of guy that was going to consistently move the chains.
That's why I say the offensive line and subsequent coaching made him look good. His gift was speed, but without those holes being created or the line sealing/blocking downfield if he broke one outside, he wouldn't have become the surprise he was.
Bottom line with Parker was that he needed a big hole handed to him on a silver platter, or it was going for somewhere between 1 and -1 yards. That's why about 80% of his production came against sub-.500 teams, and a similar amount came when he was running behind a line with three Pro Bowlers (yes, Marvel Smith made the Pro Bowl before all his back problems) plus a 6'8" 350-pound guy in Max Starks. I think both Parker and Grimm benefited tremendously from having good players on the line, and once some of those guys left, both the RB and the coach were exposed as mediocre.
Don't get me started on why Parker was a shitty RB overall; I could go on for days, so I will spare everyone that here. But you probably are going to catch hell for the "take away the longest run" comment - for some reason, that sets people off here like you just said the secret word of the day on Pee-Wee's Playhouse.
See you Space Cowboy ...
Thanks...as none of the articles i had read said anything about his staff.
It's not rocket science: Willy rushes for 100 yards on 20 carries and his longest is 75 yards, what did he provide for his other 19 carries? Contrary to that, if someone like The Bus runs for 100 yards on 20 carries and averages 5 yards a carry, what's he doing? Moving the chains.
Believe me, I've been preaching that exact same thing for years. If you have runs of 1, 0, 1, 12, 0, 0, -1, 40, 1, 0, 2, 1, -1, you've got a great YPC average, but the net effect is you've probably killed three drives while maybe contributing to one score. I don't even think Parker did all that much that an ordinary back couldn't - he turned a perfectly blocked play into a 40-yard run when a guy like Bettis would've had 25, and that was his entire contribution. Big fucking whoop. I'd definitely rather have the guy who consistently runs hard, falls forward and generally can be counted on to get some positive yardage.
Anyway - for some reason, there are a lot of people who think the opposite, and as soon as you say anything involving "except the long runs," they'll accuse you of cherry-picking facts and all sorts of rhetorical nonsense starts flying ("Well if you want to say that - then if you took away all his touchdown passes, Ben would have a horrible QB rating!" etc.). Bottom line is Parker sucked but some people were too distracted to see it.
See you Space Cowboy ...
it must be a spur of the moment thing. if you said that during the 2006 season when he had all of those 200 yard games people would call you crazy. but now, youd have a hard time finding anyone who disagrees with you. real talk.
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I actually just watched a lot of Parker as a by-product of looking back at the '08 and '09 seasons, and while you have some decent points he was a much better runningback than you're giving him credit for being. It's pretty amazing to me that a guy of his stature was able to be a feature back for as long as he was. He played at a heavier weight than he should have, in my opinion, and that took a toll in the long run. I think if he would have played at 190 or 195 and had someone other than Najeh Davenport to spell him he could have been a much more dangerous weapon. The little things in his game were vastly underrated but everyone knows it was his gamebreaking ability that kept him in the lineup. People like to talk about Mendenhall being a gamebreaker but Mendenhall can't sniff Parker's jock-strap in that department. Willie was a big time playmaker. There was a stretch of games in maybe the 2007 season where I don't think there was a better back in the league on first down. But in the end you are correct about a number of things, and you can only make a third down back into a featured guy for so long before the tires really do fall off. He manufactured as much power out of that body as he could, but it just wasn't a viable longterm plan. There was a guy who really could have benefited from having an Isaac Redman behind him.
But I realize I'm off topic.
"If you are holding on to something that you no longer need to hold on to, I encourage you to let go." - Rashard Mendenhall
Believe me, they did.
See you Space Cowboy ...
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