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Thread: Obama-The first sitting president to visit a daytime talkshow

  1. #31
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    Re: Obama-The first sitting president to visit a daytime talkshow

    The rules of engagement are so clouded by BS rules it isnt funny, but i know if any of you had the option of using .50 cal, Willy P, a freaking pocket knife to kill the bastard trying to kill you. You would use whatever you had. This is the Number 1 reason why this shit has dragged on so long. It seems everday so dumbass who is over educated comes up with a new rule to tie the hands of those trying their hardest to end this damn war. The ironic thing of this BS is that all the "bad" guys know that a goo Percentage of american people will grow tired of the war and will push to end it or just leave. They know we are fat and lazy and very impatient.


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    ??? Array title="Mattsme is an unknown quantity at this point"> Mattsme's Avatar

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    Re: Obama-The first sitting president to visit a daytime talkshow

    This thread has gotten off topic, and my post continues that. However, I just feel like saying this.

    I'm not taking sides, but there seems to be a lot of nitpicking going on here, and one fact getting lost in all of this. Terrorists murdered American civilians, on
    American soil. They murdered human beings. Liberal and conservative blood alike spilled that day.

    Now we can debate the legality, morality, and justification of the Afghan war until Tom Brady comes out of the closet or the bengals win a ring, and most likely no ones' mind will be changed. But the reality is we are there. We are fighting. And there are still the same terrorists in that country that attacked us almost nine years ago. And they have every intent to do so again if given the chance. I'm pretty sure those are things most sane people agree on.

    Now imagine this for a moment, whichever side of the fence you're on, and even if you're sitting on a post:

    Let's pretend there was a group of terrorists here in this country who murdered thousands of innocent people somewhere else. And that place decided to invade us, because we couldn't or wouldn't do anything about it. Would you join the fight against our domestic terrorists if it meant possibly preventing your family from being another civilian casualty? Would you at least condemn them whenever possible and do whatever you could to assist the other country in getting rid of them, even if it meant the risk of punishment from your fellow countrymen?

    Really. Stop. Imagine that scenario. Imagine the roles were reversed. Amuse me. Do it for a fellow Steelers fan.

    Anyone saying no?

    Well until every Afghan civilian does just that, FUCK THEM. Political correctness be damned.

    War is a terrible thing. Maybe someday we can all live in peace and harmony, and the patriots* can receive the first 53 picks of every draft. But until that day comes, we're going to have war. People are going to get burned. They are going to get shot with the wrong bullet. Children are going to die. It's horrible, it really is. Words honestly cannot describe it.
    SO FUCKING WHAT?
    (Let the inevitable attacks for that last line without thinking about what I'm really saying begin.)


    brett favre

  3. #33
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    Re: Obama-The first sitting president to visit a daytime talkshow

    That poster directly above this is a whack job, huh?

    Back on topic.

    Obama was on The View. Big whoop.

    It was a PR move, no more no less. And given our pop culture obsessed society, it will probably be effective. A Republican would have done the same thing.

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    Re: Obama-The first sitting president to visit a daytime talkshow

    Matt, you can repeat that over and over again, but it doesn't make it true. Afghanis had less than nothing to do with 9/11... unless, like some on these boards, your reasoning goes like this: Afghanis are Muslims, Muslims attacked us on 9/11, and therefore Afghanis attacked us on 9/11. I believe that Vincent more or less subscribes to that theory, and he can elaborate on it somewhat.

    Now, if you are saying that bin Laden murdered Americans on 9/11, and bin Laden is in Afghanistan, and we will occupy them until we find them... well, there are problems with that theory as well. Running geological surveys of lithium deposits and natural gas reserves in Afghanistan has nothing to do with finding bin Laden (unless he's hiding in a lithium deposit) and less to do with the Pentagon's mission there. But that's just what the Army just did, and it confirms what Afghanis (and Iraqis) take for granted: that we're there to take control of their resources.

    Speaking more directly to your broader point, I don't think letting your basest emotions from your lowest moments guide foreign and domestic policy is ever a good idea. So forming a decade's worth of foreign policy three days after 9/11, and automatically rejecting anything that may have originated in a cooler head is not what is in America's best interests, and it's not what makes this country great.
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    Re: Obama-The first sitting president to visit a daytime talkshow

    Quote Originally Posted by Mattsme View Post
    This thread has gotten off topic, and my post continues that. However, I just feel like saying this.

    ...



    brett favre
    i agree.

    brett favre.

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    Re: Obama-The first sitting president to visit a daytime talkshow

    This part I agree whole-heartedly with.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mattsme View Post
    This thread has gotten off topic, and my post continues that. However, I just feel like saying this.

    I'm not taking sides, but there seems to be a lot of nitpicking going on here, and one fact getting lost in all of this. Terrorists murdered American civilians, on
    American soil. They murdered human beings. Liberal and conservative blood alike spilled that day.

    Now we can debate the legality, morality, and justification of the Afghan war until Tom Brady comes out of the closet or the bengals win a ring, and most likely no ones' mind will be changed. But the reality is we are there. We are fighting. And there are still the same terrorists in that country that attacked us almost nine years ago. And they have every intent to do so again if given the chance. I'm pretty sure those are things most sane people agree on.
    This part I strongly disagree with. I'm not sure why, but what seems to be getting lost is that the majority, yes MAJORITY, of Afghans want the Taliban gone. Many tribal leaders have risked everything to meet with our troops, get medical attention and join the fight. As I said in an earlier post, there are ever rival tribes fighting side-by-side in the Afghan National Army along with our guys. Unfortunately, I guess one has to go and look for this information because no papers or news organizations seem to want to report it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mattsme View Post
    Now imagine this for a moment, whichever side of the fence you're on, and even if you're sitting on a post:

    Let's pretend there was a group of terrorists here in this country who murdered thousands of innocent people somewhere else. And that place decided to invade us, because we couldn't or wouldn't do anything about it. Would you join the fight against our domestic terrorists if it meant possibly preventing your family from being another civilian casualty? Would you at least condemn them whenever possible and do whatever you could to assist the other country in getting rid of them, even if it meant the risk of punishment from your fellow countrymen?

    Really. Stop. Imagine that scenario. Imagine the roles were reversed. Amuse me. Do it for a fellow Steelers fan.

    Anyone saying no?

    Well until every Afghan civilian does just that, FUCK THEM. Political correctness be damned.

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    Re: Obama-The first sitting president to visit a daytime talkshow

    Quote Originally Posted by ricardisimo View Post
    Matt, you can repeat that over and over again, but it doesn't make it true.
    Doesn't make what true? Really, I want to know. Did I say anything false? Feel free to check again. Maybe I missed something. I mean I mentioned something about the bengals winning a ring, but I assumed everyone would know I don't honestly believe that could happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by ricardisimo View Post
    Afghanis had less than nothing to do with 9/11... unless, like some on these boards, your reasoning goes like this: Afghanis are Muslims, Muslims attacked us on 9/11, and therefore Afghanis attacked us on 9/11.
    Less than nothing? I think that's a bit of a stretch. But I don't blame the average Afghani for any act of terrorism, nor the average muslim. As a matter of fact I don't recall ever even implying that. Please don't infer things that aren't there. If I mean something, I'll say it.

    Quote Originally Posted by ricardisimo View Post
    Now, if you are saying that bin Laden murdered Americans on 9/11, and bin Laden is in Afghanistan, and we will occupy them until we find them... well, there are problems with that theory as well.
    Didn't say that, nor do I think it. I don't know where bin Laden is. Wish I did. I'd tell Geraldo. Would make for amusing TV, no matter what your politics are.

    Actually, I think we will occupy them for quite a while after we find him, if we ever do. And I have mixed feelings on that. But I didn't mention any of this in my previous post.

    Quote Originally Posted by ricardisimo View Post
    But that's just what the Army just did, and it confirms what Afghanis (and Iraqis) take for granted: that we're there to take control of their resources.
    I don't care if the army from the lost tribes of the amazon were in my backyard and I KNEW they were here to take control of our sliced bread and breast implant technology, if even a group of radical STEELER fans had previously slaughtered thousands of their civilians, and they were throwing spears back and forth and one came close to my family, I would be the first one out the door with a map to where my terrible towel waving terrorists were hiding. Sorry I didn't make my point more clear.

    Quote Originally Posted by ricardisimo View Post
    Speaking more directly to your broader point, I don't think letting your basest emotions from your lowest moments guide foreign and domestic policy is ever a good idea.
    Honestly, my "basest emotions" have much more to do with p*ssy than they do with patriotism, and 9/11 was far from my lowest moment. Actually it wasn't any lower or higher than 9/10 or 9/12. Last I checked there are still no patriotic bumper stickers on my car, not that there's anything wrong with that. Perhaps I should have refrained from using the word "fuck" in my previous post, as it really does imply emotion. It was more for emphasis. My bad.


    Quote Originally Posted by ricardisimo View Post
    Matt, you can repeat that over and over again, but it doesn't make it true.
    Repeating for emphasis. Doesn't make what true?

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    Re: Obama-The first sitting president to visit a daytime talkshow

    Quote Originally Posted by TheWarDen86 View Post
    This part I strongly disagree with. I'm not sure why, but what seems to be getting lost is that the majority, yes MAJORITY, of Afghans want the Taliban gone.
    I do realize that, and looking back I should have rephrased that part of my post to direct it at the ones that don't. Or do, but don't say or do anything about it. Or don't care one way or the other.

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    Re: Obama-The first sitting president to visit a daytime talkshow

    Quote Originally Posted by Mattsme View Post
    Repeating for emphasis. Doesn't make what true?
    It doesn't make what you said true, which is, once again, one of two things: either that Afghani terrorists murdered American civilians on 9/11 and intend to do it again, therefore justifying our presence there; or that we are occupying Afghanistan in an earnest attempt to capture Osama bin Laden and his cohorts. I don't see many other ways to interpret paragraphs two and three of your first post here. Both of these are lies that are repeated ad nauseum in the American press, in an obvious attempt to make them true by such repetition. I'm asking you not to be complicit in this attempt.
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    Re: Obama-The first sitting president to visit a daytime talkshow

    Quote Originally Posted by ricardisimo View Post
    It doesn't make what you said true, which is, once again, one of two things: either that Afghani terrorists murdered American civilians on 9/11 and intend to do it again, therefore justifying our presence there; or that we are occupying Afghanistan in an earnest attempt to capture Osama bin Laden and his cohorts. I don't see many other ways to interpret paragraphs two and three of your first post here. Both of these are lies that are repeated ad nauseum in the American press, in an obvious attempt to make them true by such repetition. I'm asking you not to be complicit in this attempt.
    Never said we were justified in being there. Never said we were there to capture anyone. I didn't say "one of two things." Nothing I said should need to be "interpreted."

    I said four things.

    We are there. We are fighting. There are terrorists in Afghanistan. Those terrorists would like to kill Americans.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mattsme View Post
    Now we can debate the legality, morality, and justification of the Afghan war until Tom Brady comes out of the closet or the bengals win a ring, and most likely no ones' mind will be changed. But the reality is we are there. We are fighting. And there are still the same terrorists in that country that attacked us almost nine years ago. And they have every intent to do so again if given the chance. I'm pretty sure those are things most sane people agree on
    I went back and read the last line of my paragraph above. Now you make sense.

    I'm kidding of course, I think you're perfectly sane. And I get what you're doing in this thread and all the other other ones in the soapbox. I really do. It was amusing for a while. Now it's just tired, whichever side you read it from.

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    Re: Obama-The first sitting president to visit a daytime talkshow

    Now, before this thread gets locked down.

    I've never actually seen The View. Any men want to admit that they have?

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    Re: Obama-The first sitting president to visit a daytime talkshow

    Quote Originally Posted by Mattsme View Post
    Now, before this thread gets locked down.

    I've never actually seen The View. Any men want to admit that they have?
    For reason which have never been explained to my satisfaction, there are only three things which they show on the TV in the coffee shop next to my work:
    1. Police helicopter chase scenes news footage;
    2. Mexican League soccer;
    3. "The View".

    The crew there are overwhelmingly Mexican immigrants, so at least one of these items makes sense, but the other two...?
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    Re: Obama-The first sitting president to visit a daytime talkshow

    Quote Originally Posted by ricardisimo View Post
    For reason which have never been explained to my satisfaction, there are only three things which they show on the TV in the coffee shop next to my work:
    1. Police helicopter chase scenes news footage;
    2. Mexican League soccer;
    3. "The View".

    The crew there are overwhelmingly Mexican immigrants, so at least one of these items makes sense, but the other two...?
    Racist.

    There must be some connection though. Conspiracy?

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    Re: Obama-The first sitting president to visit a daytime talkshow

    What constitutes an "illegal" war? I hate Obama and his policies as much as the next man, but to call ANY US president a war criminal is ludicrous.

    If you are the people/country getting attacked, ANY war would be "illegal". Wars are not "illegal", you can argue that they are not necessary or immoral, but legality has nothing to do with it.

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    Re: Obama-The first sitting president to visit a daytime talkshow

    Im sure there still some nuts out there that want Bush locked up for war crimes , lol .

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    Re: Obama-The first sitting president to visit a daytime talkshow

    Quote Originally Posted by venom View Post
    Im sure there still some nuts out there that want Bush locked up for war crimes , lol .
    Like me, for example.
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    Re: Obama-The first sitting president to visit a daytime talkshow

    Quote Originally Posted by BnG_Hevn View Post
    What constitutes an "illegal" war? I hate Obama and his policies as much as the next man, but to call ANY US president a war criminal is ludicrous.

    If you are the people/country getting attacked, ANY war would be "illegal". Wars are not "illegal", you can argue that they are not necessary or immoral, but legality has nothing to do with it.
    Wars are indeed either "legal" or "illegal", and since we are signatories to all of the major treaties governing these issues, we are bound by these laws... or at least we would be were we not a rogue state governed by violent psychopaths.

    Why do you think it is ludicrous for there to be laws which govern the actions of states just as there are laws which govern the actions of people? Or, are you simply an American Exceptionalist? Do you believe that international laws apply to other countries and their leaders, but not to the US and its presidents?
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    Re: Obama-The first sitting president to visit a daytime talkshow

    Quote Originally Posted by ricardisimo View Post
    Wars are indeed either "legal" or "illegal", and since we are signatories to all of the major treaties governing these issues, we are bound by these laws... or at least we would be were we not a rogue state governed by violent psychopaths.

    Why do you think it is ludicrous for there to be laws which govern the actions of states just as there are laws which govern the actions of people? Or, are you simply an American Exceptionalist? Do you believe that international laws apply to other countries and their leaders, but not to the US and its presidents?
    Better let all these other countries on our side know they're fighting an "illegal" war:

    Country Troops
    Albania 22
    Australia 550
    Austria 4
    Azerbaijan 22
    Belgium 300
    Bulgaria 200
    Croatia 216
    Czech Republic 89
    Denmark 389
    Estonia 130
    Finland 100
    France 1,900
    Macedonia 130
    Germany 3,000
    Greece 171
    Hungary 159
    Iceland 20
    Ireland 7
    Italy 1,950
    Latvia 40
    Lithuania 115
    Luxembourg 10
    Netherlands 1,700
    New Zealand 130
    Norway 580
    Poland 1,200
    Portugal 150
    Romania 900
    Slovakia 57
    Slovenia 51
    Spain 800
    Sweden 330
    Switzerland 4
    Turkey 1,200
    United Kingdom 7,700
    United States 12,000

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/af...henumbers.html


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    Re: Obama-The first sitting president to visit a daytime talkshow

    These countries know on which side their bread is buttered. I'm not sure what your point is, though. Is a crime not a crime if you have enough co-conspirators? It's all moot, anyhow, since the end is nigh. Those other countries are reading the writing on the wall, seeing that the war is lost, and are packing their bags.
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    Re: Obama-The first sitting president to visit a daytime talkshow

    Quote Originally Posted by ricardisimo View Post
    These countries know on which side their bread is buttered. I'm not sure what your point is, though. Is a crime not a crime if you have enough co-conspirators? It's all moot, anyhow, since the end is nigh. Those other countries are reading the writing on the wall, seeing that the war is lost, and are packing their bags.
    It's not a crime. It's not an illegal war. I was mocking you for being dead wrong. Guess I should have been more clear about it, sorry.

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    Re: Obama-The first sitting president to visit a daytime talkshow

    Of course it's illegal. It's a war of aggression, which is flatly illegal as per the UN Charter (to which we are signatories, making it the law of the land).

    A war of aggression is a non-defensive war which is not sanctioned by the UN Security Council. Neither Afghanistan - nor individual Afghanis - ever invaded us or threatened to do so, and it is highly unlikely that they will do so at any point in the foreseeable future. That is to say that we cannot credibly claim that this war was defensive, either preemptively or otherwise.

    Furthermore, the invasion was never sanctioned by the UN. In the aftermath of the invasion, the ISAF was formed to stabilize the areas around Kabul (as well as to legitimize US policy on some level). But this is different from sanctioning the invasion, as contrasted with the first Gulf War, for example.

    It's illegal, it's immoral, and we're losing to boot. It's the perfect trifecta of an empire in decay.
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    Re: Obama-The first sitting president to visit a daytime talkshow

    Quote Originally Posted by ricardisimo View Post
    Of course it's illegal. It's a war of aggression, which is flatly illegal as per the UN Charter (to which we are signatories, making it the law of the land).

    A war of aggression is a non-defensive war which is not sanctioned by the UN Security Council. Neither Afghanistan - nor individual Afghanis - ever invaded us or threatened to do so, and it is highly unlikely that they will do so at any point in the foreseeable future. That is to say that we cannot credibly claim that this war was defensive, either preemptively or otherwise.

    Furthermore, the invasion was never sanctioned by the UN. In the aftermath of the invasion, the ISAF was formed to stabilize the areas around Kabul (as well as to legitimize US policy on some level). But this is different from sanctioning the invasion, as contrasted with the first Gulf War, for example.

    It's illegal, it's immoral, and we're losing to boot. It's the perfect trifecta of an empire in decay.
    This war is not illegal. You are grasping at straws. And just to humor myself, what nation are we at war with?

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    Re: Obama-The first sitting president to visit a daytime talkshow

    Quote Originally Posted by TheWarDen86 View Post
    Better let all these other countries on our side know they're fighting an "illegal" war:

    Country Troops

    Switzerland 4
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/af...henumbers.html

    So much for neutrality, I'm never buying a swiss army knife again....

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    Re: Obama-The first sitting president to visit a daytime talkshow

    Quote Originally Posted by TheWarDen86 View Post
    This war is not illegal. You are grasping at straws. And just to humor myself, what nation are we at war with?
    I thought you said you could read. Wars of aggression are illegal as per our own laws - namely the international treaties to which we are signatories. Wars of aggression are non-defensive wars (like both of our current wars against Afghanistan and Iraq) which are not sanctioned by the UN via the Security Council (like both of our current wars against Afghanistan and Iraq). Therefore both of our current wars against Afghanistan and Iraq are illegal wars of aggression. Did you want it in some graphical format, like a flow chart or something?

    Presidents proclaiming these wars legal doesn't make them so. Wishing these wars were legal doesn't make them so. Really, really fervently wishing they were legal also doesn't make them legal. And obviously "mocking" people (although I missed the mocking part... your humor is just too subtle for me) that state the obvious about these wars likewise does not make them legal.
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    Re: Obama-The first sitting president to visit a daytime talkshow

    Quote Originally Posted by ricardisimo View Post
    I thought you said you could read. ..... Did you want it in some graphical format, like a flow chart or something?
    Notice to everyone!!!!

    This is the personal stufff that isnt going to be allowed. Ric, and anyone else, who wants to attack the poster instead of the post is going to get a small vacation.
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    Re: Obama-The first sitting president to visit a daytime talkshow

    To get back to the tread. I thought he would end up on Jeopardy, or The Price is Right.

    AML

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    Re: Obama-The first sitting president to visit a daytime talkshow

    Quote Originally Posted by Texasteel View Post
    To get back to the tread. I thought he would end up on Jeopardy, or The Price is Right.
    I was thinking more along the lines of that show Donald Trump has.



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    Re: Obama-The first sitting president to visit a daytime talkshow

    Quote Originally Posted by Texasteel View Post
    To get back to the tread. I thought he would end up on Jeopardy, or The Price is Right.
    I think he belongs on "Wipeout".






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  29. #59
    Reigning Black & Gold Array title="venom has a reputation beyond repute"> venom's Avatar

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    Re: Obama-The first sitting president to visit a daytime talkshow

    I heard he is going to host The Price is Right right before the Nov. midterm elections

  30. #60
    SteelerSal
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    Re: Obama-The first sitting president to visit a daytime talkshow

    Quote Originally Posted by HometownGal View Post
    I think he belongs on "Wipeout".

    I love that show. LOL

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