Cage Match: Brown vs. Wallace

[Psycho Ward 86]

If he would have played all 16 games he would have had 1020 yards if his production rate simply continued. Based on what we saw from the Cincinnati game I think it's a fair argument to say it would have increased, but for our purposes we'll say it wouldn't have. What is wrong with 1020 yards and four touchdowns? Or for that matter 765, 4 in 12 games? Hines Ward had seasons like that all the time and I never heard anyone say he was overpaid.

Ward:

2010: 755 yards, 5 TD. 15 games started.

2009: 1,167 yards, 6 TD. 16 games started.

2008: 1,043 yards, 7 TD. 15 games started.

2007: 732 yards, 7 TD. 13 games started.

2006: 975 yards, 6 TD. 14 games started.

2005: 975 yards, 11 TD. 15 games started.

2004: 1,004 yards, 4 TD. 16 games started.



So according to you, Ward would have been overpaid.

----------------------------------------------------

I realize you probably don't actually believe that.

But Brown puts up similar numbers, and he's overpaid, right? Give me a break.

lol yeah IF he played in 16 games but he didnt did he? the team on the field could care less what he's ON PACE FOR. what's he actually doing on the field? Not enough. Ward was justly paid because he was reasonably productive for what he was paid in all of the 16 games he actually played. brown still has to earn his contract. and wallace REALLY fuckin needs to haul ass if he wants vincent jackson money.

[Count Steeler]

lol yeah IF he played in 16 games but he didnt did he? the team on the field could care less what he's ON PACE FOR. what's he actually doing on the field? Not enough. Ward was justly paid because he was reasonably productive for what he was paid in all of the 16 games he actually played. brown still has to earn his contract. and wallace REALLY fuckin needs to haul ass if he wants vincent jackson money.

I almost guarantee that Wallace gets that money, on the open market. That's the main reason he won't be a Steeler next year.

[zulater]

thats a great season for a #3 receivers. But hes not. Hes a NUMBER ONE receiver. thats a poor season for anybody being paid about $$7 million dollars a year and supposed to be ben's go to guy. very unfortunate that both of our starting receivers can say they played pretty poorly on a team that relies heavily on the passing game

Do you think there's even one person in the Steelers hiearchy who is currently saying, "boy we overpayed that Brown, I wish he wasn't signed to the contract we have him under for next year?

Conversly how many huge sigh's of relief are being breathed by these guys because Wallace didn't sign the contract they offered him?

Right now I think the Steelers are quite happy to have Brown inked for the amount of money they signed him to. And in the end that's why he's worth it.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Do you think there's even one person in the Steelers hiearchy who is currently saying, "boy we overpayed that Brown, I wish he wasn't signed to the contract we have him under for next year?

.

never said anything about next year. didnt talk about how he isnt worth it next season at all. i was talking about this year.

Conversely, if you're looking at brown's future potential based on past success we could all be talking about wallace's future potential based on past success, but we dont because clearly theres an enigmatic salty attitude towards him that causes people to swing things to look as favorable as possible for brown, and as unfavorable as possible for wallace.

[Devilsdancefloor]

brown = Heart and desire to be the best WR he can be. Wallace = strides to be the richest WR he can be

[st33lersguy]

brown = Heart and desire to be the best WR he can be. Wallace = strides to be the richest WR he can be

and as we saw with guys like Albert Haynesworth and other free agents, guys who only seek a lot of money and get it almost always stop putting forth the effort when they get their payday. The alarming fact is Wallace did not try during his CONTRACT YEAR, when most of these money seekers have their career years

[Psycho Ward 86]

brown = Heart and desire to be the best WR he can be. Wallace = strides to be the richest WR he can be

wanting money doesnt mean you dont work hard. working hard doesnt mean you dont want money

[Steeldude]

The lack of effort put forth by Wallace in his contract year is unsettling. IMO, if he is given a huge contract the lack of effort will become worse.

[fansince'76]

Conversely, if you're looking at brown's future potential based on past success we could all be talking about wallace's future potential based on past success, but we dont because clearly theres an enigmatic salty attitude towards him that causes people to swing things to look as favorable as possible for brown, and as unfavorable as possible for wallace.

And there's also been post after post after post here that has torn down Brown (and Sanders to boot) in an effort to make Wallace look better, even when Brown (and Sanders) weren't part of the original topic of the thread (which has usually dealt with Wallace's, and ONLY Wallaces', performance this season). It's gone both ways.

However, at the end of the day, it will be Brown (and Sanders) who will be on the team next year and beyond when Wallace will in all likelihood be long gone.

[Seven]

lol yeah IF he played in 16 games but he didnt did he? the team on the field could care less what he's ON PACE FOR. what's he actually doing on the field? Not enough. Ward was justly paid because he was reasonably productive for what he was paid in all of the 16 games he actually played. brown still has to earn his contract.

That's garbage and I think you're smart enough to know it. So, according to you, if he had played 16 games and had 765 that would be okay? But because he got injured it is a bad year? What a crock of shit. If he was LaMarr Woodley and kept getting injured due to poor conditioning I could see your point. But Brown is one of the most fit players on the team. Just because he suffered an injury doesn't mean you can say he wasn't worth his contract. That's total bullshit and a cop out argument.

So Ward's 755 and 5 touchdowns through 15 games is better than Brown's 765 and 4 touchdowns through 12. That's the most ridiculous argument any Brown nay-sayer has made yet.

[Psycho Ward 86]

That's garbage and I think you're smart enough to know it. So, according to you, if he had played 16 games and had 765 that would be okay? But because he got injured it is a bad year? What a crock of shit. If he was LaMarr Woodley and kept getting injured due to poor conditioning I could see your point. But Brown is one of the most fit players on the team. Just because he suffered an injury doesn't mean you can say he wasn't worth his contract. That's total bullshit and a cop out argument.

So Ward's 755 and 5 touchdowns through 15 games is better than Brown's 765 and 4 touchdowns through 12. That's the most ridiculous argument any Brown nay-sayer has made yet.

Lol, no? 765 yards in 16 games would be even worse than 765 yards in 12 games, have you gone mad? It was a bad year because his production didnt match $7 million a year, and certainly not that of a #1 receiver in a passing offense. Dont put words in my mouth. Nice try. Im looking at the bigger picture, not just injuries. Injuries AND production. Just because a player fails to match the production that his contract demands doesnt mean he was worth his contract. Generally, hines ward was obviously generally productive through the length of his contract so it was worth it by end's meet. Im sure brown will do the same. You seem to be mistaking my critique of brown as being that of "this guy thinks brown will never live up to his contract." But heres a super crazy story that will blow your mind: i never said that. not even once. All i did was point out that brown didnt live up to his contract JUST FOR THIS YEAR that averages $7 million dollars a year and for someone considered a #1 receiver. i dont know what you consider a brown nay sayer but if you mean someone who thinks wallace is better than brown then im not one. ive been critical of everyone in the young money crew this season.

i also never said anything about ward's 2010 season versus brown's 2012 season. Try to refrain from putting words in my mouth. Please and thank you

[zulater]

A lot of players didn't earn their cap hit for this season. I wouldn't put Brown among that number. And even if you put him on yours, he's should be pretty far down the list.

I'm damn glad Antonio Brown is secured under contract for next season for the number he was signed to.

So what exactly is the issue again? .

[Psycho Ward 86]

A lot of players didn't earn their cap hit for this season. I wouldn't put Brown among that number. And even if you put him on yours, he's should be pretty far down the list.

I'm damn glad Antonio Brown is secured under contract for next season for the number he was signed to.

So what exactly is the issue again? .

just as you said. everybody on offense underachieving other than heath miller

[zulater]

just as you said. everybody on offense underachieving other than heath miller

You keep making an issue of Antonio's contract. Why?

Did that contract in any way prevent the Steelers from signing a better player this season?

Will his contract keep them from signing someone else next season?

Hell he even closed the gap on your boy for TD's this season. 8-5, and proved he can be a deep threat without Wallace on the field.

I'm glad his contract isn't an off season issue.


Why the hell his contract would bother anyone is puzzling?

[Psycho Ward 86]

i didnt make an issue of it. everyone who freaked out did. all i did was start off by saying antonio brown didnt earn his contract this year. And a lot of people freaked out about it and i argued my points. thats what i get for saying anything marginally negative about our "golden boy." i think thats what someone crowned him in a different thread. i wonder who that could be

[zulater]

i didnt make an issue of it. everyone who freaked out did. all i did was start off by saying antonio brown didnt earn his contract this year. And a lot of people freaked out about it and i argued my points. thats what i get for saying anything marginally negative about our "golden boy." i think thats what someone crowned him in a different thread. i wonder who that could be

Perhaps it's just that we disagree with your points on how Antonio was overpaid this year. Because i certainly do. Relative to his pay he was within the margins. He certainly wasn't stealing money like Woodley did this year.

If his contract didn't hurt the team's ability to sign another player to this year's roster and didn't cause a distraction with his play or within the team, now or going foward, then what does it even matter?

Was there someone on the bench behind him that should have played in place of him but didn't because of his contract?

Seriously and again, how the hell was he overpaid?

So how's this different than Wallace?

Because Wallace didn't sign, and that was an issue that kept Wallace out of camp and seemingly distracted him on the field of play all season, and will also rear up again this offseason because he's an UFA.

So yeah that's a big effing difference and if you can't see why contract is relevant in the discussion of Wallace and not so with Brown, well you just aren't doing the math very well.

Which mostly seems to be a problem isolated to just you and one other poster of note.

So I'll leave it there.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Neeeever said this is different than wallace...

lol

[X-Terminator]

Not earning their contract THIS SEASON =/ thinking he is overpaid.

Just saying.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Not earning their contract THIS SEASON =/ thinking he is overpaid.

Just saying.

exactly. thank you.

[zulater]

Not earning their contract THIS SEASON =/ thinking he is overpaid.

Just saying.

I think Brown earned what he made this year.

Wallace to for that matter.

[zulater]

Outside of this board, if you gave a normal Steeler fan 5 words to describe Antonio Brown's season. I'd wager "overpaid" wouldn't be one of them.

[zulater]

Here's my 5 words to describe Wallace's season.

Holdout.

Unfocused.

Indifferent.

drops

Gone.

[Count Steeler]

Here's my 5 words to describe Wallace's season.

Holdout.

Unfocused.

Indifferent.

drops

Gone.

Distraction?

[zulater]

Distraction?

That works.

Notice one thing that didn't happen today?

Ben didn't throw an interception.

And why do I bring that up?

Who was he trying to force feed the ball too in both those instances?

Also even with Heath out Ben seemed to have open receivers on most every play he had time to get the ball away.

So much for the theory that Wallace draws half the defensive backfield to him on every play!

Conversly when Brown is out the Steelers had trouble getting anyone open.

Wallace will easily be replaced. Antonio Brown, not so much.

[Count Steeler]

That works.

Notice one thing that didn't happen today?

Ben didn't throw an interception.

And why do I bring that up?

Who was he trying to force feed the ball too in both those instances?

Also even with Heath out Ben seemed to have open receivers on most every play he had time to get the ball away.

So much for the theory that Wallace draws half the defensive backfield to him on every play!

Conversly when Brown is out the Steelers had trouble getting anyone open.

Wallace will easily be replaced. Antonio Brown, not so much.

Could this be the root of the problem with Ben and Todd? Did Ben try too hard to get Wallace back?

[zulater]

http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=321230023

Notice how Ben distributed the ball evenly today. 5 different receivers were each targeted 5 times apiece in Ben's 23 attempts.

[Seven]

Not earning their contract THIS SEASON =/ thinking he is overpaid.

Just saying.

I can see a distinction between the two. But that's irrelevant as Brown doesn't fall under either category.

787 yards and 5 touchdowns during a season where you missed significant time due to injury just isn't underperforming. Like I said, very similar to Ward's production most of his career - and I didn't hear anyone say he was overpaid.

[Psycho Ward 86]

I can see a distinction between the two. But that's irrelevant as Brown doesn't fall under either category.

787 yards and 5 touchdowns during a season where you missed significant time due to injury just isn't underperforming. Like I said, very similar to Ward's production most of his career - and I didn't hear anyone say he was overpaid.

and thats an opinion to think brown doesnt fall under either category.
its also an opinion to think that being on pace for a great season instead of actually having one means someone earned their payday for the year. not a big deal, considering the arrow is pointing up for brown and most everybody on offense underachieved anyways

[zulater]

Do you think there's even one person in the Steelers hiearchy who is currently saying, "boy we overpayed that Brown, I wish he wasn't signed to the contract we have him under for next year?

Conversly how many huge sigh's of relief are being breathed by these guys because Wallace didn't sign the contract they offered him?

Right now I think the Steelers are quite happy to have Brown inked for the amount of money they signed him to. And in the end that's why he's worth it.

Good posting!

[st33lersguy]

Updated cage match, hall of fame game style: Wallace (the wide receiver on his 2nd team in 3 years after leaving the Steelers who did nothing in the hall of fame game) vs Brown ( the wide receiver deemed too valuable to play).

Wonder what steeldawg would have to say on this issue now. Probably would stop posting