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Thread: UPDATE: Ed Reed's suspension lifted

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    Re: UPDATE: Ed Reed's suspension lifted

    Quote Originally Posted by Chidi29 View Post
    Let's face it, when you say "the league" the first think that pops into everyone head is Goodell. He is the face of the league so I use those words pretty interchangeably.
    Here I have to say that you and Preach have changed the opinion of some of the posters here. But rather than say the panel of reviewers and the discipline board, it is easier to just say "the league". So no, I do not equate "the league" with "Goodell".

    - - - Updated - - -

    So did the Giant that speared a defenseless Rainey (already on the ground, covered by 2 other Giants) get fined at all? Memory fails me at the moment, but I don't think he got a flag on the play.

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    Re: UPDATE: Ed Reed's suspension lifted

    who probably don't care about player safety nearly as much as the commissioner does.


    This guy doesn't give a rat's ass about the saftey of the players. He only cares about protecting the owners' and his outrageous salary against player lawsuits.

    Only the totally blind would/could believe that this dude or the owners gives two shits about the guys that play this game.

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    Re: UPDATE: Ed Reed's suspension lifted

    Whatever you want to call it, it's clear the league does not have a dictatorship.

    And this also corrects certain inaccurate comments made by some people on ESPN. Cris Carter said yesterday that the appeals board was paid by the NFL...not mentioning the fact that the league pays half and the union the other.

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    Re: Ed Reed suspended for hit on Sanders

    Quote Originally Posted by Preacher View Post
    It's actually pretty simple. Don't go in head first. Our DB's have learned how to do it. Other DB's have learned how to do it. So for those few who refuse to learn how, it's their own fault. The rule has been in place long enough that they get no sympathy from me.

    Hey, if Clark can learn, anyone can. That's not a rip on Clark's intelligence, but rather, a statement on the way Clark plays the game. He's sheer reaction and instinct, and he learned to change the way he hit - for the better.
    I'm really not sure how much of that is Clark changing his ways, versus Clark simply having better luck lately. If I'm not mistaken, he's been called for at least a couple of personal fouls this year, besides the bullshit Giants one. Even if he's leading with his shoulder, or aiming lower, or both ... some receiver ducks his head or turns at the wrong moment, and all of a sudden he's a dirty player again, getting fined and suspended.

    That's basically what happened to Reed. He was just making a tackle, and Sanders turned around right into him. I mean, when Reed began to go for the hit, Sanders' back was toward him. Which also makes the "defenseless receiver" part of it seem pretty fuzzy, since he had possession of the ball and managed to turn all the way around.

    Sorry, but I don't buy it - if you're tackling another player, your head is going to be nearby no matter what, and sometimes there is going to be contact whether you "lead" with it or not. You're not going to get it out of the game ever, and if you do anything beyond penalizing the deliberate cheapshots like always, you're doing more harm than good.

    Yes, I know what everyone will say about that - but blah blah blah the lawsuits, OMG everybody would sue. No. That's not what the lawsuits are about. It's about whether they knew of the medical danger of concussions and covered it up to past players. The risks are all out in the open now, and are pretty well acknowledged by both sides. Changing the rules now really has nothing to do with any of that. Especially since it doesn't prevent a damn thing. It's like what would happen if the federal government decided to pass a law banning heart disease. If anything, now that the players are aware this is a huge problem, they'll be the ones who do most of the work solving it - you see things like Harrison and Clark using the kevlar helmets, you see players being cautious with injuries instead of rushing back, in extreme cases you see guys deciding to quit the game when enough is enough. Also kind of along the lines of what would happen if people were suddenly aware of heart disease and how to cut down on the risk for it, rather than some ineffective rule being handed down about it.
    See you Space Cowboy ...

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    Re: UPDATE: Ed Reed's suspension lifted

    Quote Originally Posted by silver & black View Post


    This guy doesn't give a rat's ass about the saftey of the players. He only cares about protecting the owners' and his outrageous salary against player lawsuits.

    Only the totally blind would/could believe that this dude or the owners gives two shits about the guys that play this game.
    A lot of it is a PR move, yes. I've said that many times before. But I do believe he doesn't like seeing players get severely hurt and wants to try and prevent it.

    And to me, whatever the motive, at least the players are safer.

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    Re: Ed Reed suspended for hit on Sanders

    Quote Originally Posted by Preacher View Post
    Maybe this will alleviate the belief that the league "has it in" for the Steelers.

    well the lifting of the suspension makes you go hmmmmmmmm....... Harrisons didnt win appeal last year and i beleive his hit on McCoy was the same kind of play as the hit on sanders


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    Re: Ed Reed suspended for hit on Sanders

    Quote Originally Posted by Devilsdancefloor View Post
    well the lifting of the suspension makes you go hmmmmmmmm....... Harrisons didnt win appeal last year and i beleive his hit on McCoy was the same kind of play as the hit on sanders
    You're right, this is all a scheme.

    Suspend a Ravens player to throw the scent off the "league has it out for the Steelers" trail. But you don't really want to suspend one of the Ravens best players (because you hate the Steelers) so you somehow convince/bribe a partially independent arbitrator to get rid of the suspension but keep the fine so the league can still justify player safety.

    That is so much simpler.

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    Re: Ed Reed suspended for hit on Sanders

    Quote Originally Posted by Chidi29 View Post
    You're right, this is all a scheme.

    Suspend a Ravens player to throw the scent off the "league has it out for the Steelers" trail. But you don't really want to suspend one of the Ravens best players (because you hate the Steelers) so you somehow convince/bribe a partially independent arbitrator to get rid of the suspension but keep the fine so the league can still justify player safety.

    That is so much simpler.
    im not trying to put my tin foil hat on it does make you go hmmm interesting. If it doesnt make you do that take off the NFL glasses and look again.


    For those i love i will sacrifice.

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    Re: Ed Reed suspended for hit on Sanders

    Quote Originally Posted by Devilsdancefloor View Post
    im not trying to put my tin foil hat on it does make you go hmmm interesting. If it doesnt make you do that take off the NFL glasses and look again.
    No, that's exactly what you're implying when you say "hmmm"

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    Re: Ed Reed suspended for hit on Sanders

    Quote Originally Posted by Boh View Post
    a bad decision is a bad decision, no matter what team its against. we aren't mindless hating people like you may portray us.
    I may beg to differ.

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    Re: UPDATE: Ed Reed's suspension lifted

    Right decision by the league. For once...unfortunately it went in favor of Ed Reed...lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

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    Re: UPDATE: Ed Reed's suspension lifted

    There were some great observations on ESPN this afternoon. For one, lots of head injuries are from guys hitting the ground and not from the initial hits at all.

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    Re: UPDATE: Ed Reed's suspension lifted

    Quote Originally Posted by GodfatherofSoul View Post
    There were some great observations on ESPN this afternoon. For one, lots of head injuries are from guys hitting the ground and not from the initial hits at all.
    No way! How can you fine and suspend the ground?

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    Re: UPDATE: Ed Reed's suspension lifted

    Quote Originally Posted by GodfatherofSoul View Post
    There were some great observations on ESPN this afternoon. For one, lots of head injuries are from guys hitting the ground and not from the initial hits at all.
    Now don't go bringing facts into this equation. Goodell and the league KNOW it is defenseless hits that are the major problem. Who cares about ribs, knees, shoulders, etc. And incidental contact with the ground.

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    Re: UPDATE: Ed Reed's suspension lifted

    Quote Originally Posted by GodfatherofSoul View Post
    There were some great observations on ESPN this afternoon. For one, lots of head injuries are from guys hitting the ground and not from the initial hits at all.
    There are many things that the NFL could do if they were actually interested in player safety instead of just money. Getting rid of turf is one of them. Making the new, safer helmets mandatory is another one. How about making it mandatory for every player to wear a full set of pads? What about protecting defensive players from chop blocks?

    The NFL is full of a bunch of hypocrites.

  16. #76

    Re: Ed Reed suspended for hit on Sanders

    Quote Originally Posted by steelreserve View Post
    I'm really not sure how much of that is Clark changing his ways, versus Clark simply having better luck lately. If I'm not mistaken, he's been called for at least a couple of personal fouls this year, besides the bullshit Giants one. Even if he's leading with his shoulder, or aiming lower, or both ... some receiver ducks his head or turns at the wrong moment, and all of a sudden he's a dirty player again, getting fined and suspended.

    That's basically what happened to Reed. He was just making a tackle, and Sanders turned around right into him. I mean, when Reed began to go for the hit, Sanders' back was toward him. Which also makes the "defenseless receiver" part of it seem pretty fuzzy, since he had possession of the ball and managed to turn all the way around.

    Sorry, but I don't buy it - if you're tackling another player, your head is going to be nearby no matter what, and sometimes there is going to be contact whether you "lead" with it or not. You're not going to get it out of the game ever, and if you do anything beyond penalizing the deliberate cheapshots like always, you're doing more harm than good.

    Yes, I know what everyone will say about that - but blah blah blah the lawsuits, OMG everybody would sue. No. That's not what the lawsuits are about. It's about whether they knew of the medical danger of concussions and covered it up to past players. The risks are all out in the open now, and are pretty well acknowledged by both sides. Changing the rules now really has nothing to do with any of that. Especially since it doesn't prevent a damn thing. It's like what would happen if the federal government decided to pass a law banning heart disease. If anything, now that the players are aware this is a huge problem, they'll be the ones who do most of the work solving it - you see things like Harrison and Clark using the kevlar helmets, you see players being cautious with injuries instead of rushing back, in extreme cases you see guys deciding to quit the game when enough is enough. Also kind of along the lines of what would happen if people were suddenly aware of heart disease and how to cut down on the risk for it, rather than some ineffective rule being handed down about it.
    Bad tackle



    Good tackle.



    It's really not that difficult - if players actually play football rather than play ESPNball.

    BTW - so much for the "Put your head on the football" basics of tackling (Ed Reed). But wait! It's the NFL! Yep, and the sloppy tackling is why there's so many headshots. ESPNball for everyone!


  17. #77

    Re: Ed Reed suspended for hit on Sanders

    Quote Originally Posted by Chidi29 View Post
    Because then you create a ton of grey area if you start claiming what was avoidable and what wasn't, what was intentional and what wasn't. It's a lot less messy to make the issue black and white.
    The very fact that they had to lift the suspension is proof that the real "grey area" lies within the leagues own judgement. Which is what everyone is complaining about to begin with.
    "I believe the game is designed to reward the ones who hit the hardest. If you can't take it, you shouldn't play"

    -- Jack Lambert --

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    Re: Ed Reed suspended for hit on Sanders

    Quote Originally Posted by LLT View Post
    The very fact that they had to lift the suspension is proof that the real "grey area" lies within the leagues own judgement. Which is what everyone is complaining about to begin with.
    The NFL chose to look at it black and white. While the appeals officer looked at the grey area.

  19. #79

    Re: Ed Reed suspended for hit on Sanders

    Quote Originally Posted by Preacher View Post



    It's really not that difficult - if players actually play football rather than play ESPNball.

    BTW - so much for the "Put your head on the football" basics of tackling (Ed Reed). But wait! It's the NFL! Yep, and the sloppy tackling is why there's so many headshots. ESPNball for everyone!


    But its NOT that simple...even when I played...there where certain ball carriers who lowered their head EVERY TIME. Regadrless of how "perfect" my technigue was...or how much I tried to put my head to the side of the ballcarrier...I was going to get my bell rung.

    Officials cannot regulate "intend". In their eyes they see the defensive player lowering his head...and the offensive player lowering his head. Its IMPOSSIBLE to tell who is spearing who....IMPOSSIBLE!!!!!


    Look again at the Ed Reed photo you supplied. If you had no knowledge as to how that play ended, can you tell from that photo if Reeds "intend" was to make head to head contact? Can you tell if Sanders "intend" was initiate head to head contact so as to pick up the penalty?
    "I believe the game is designed to reward the ones who hit the hardest. If you can't take it, you shouldn't play"

    -- Jack Lambert --

  20. #80

    Re: Ed Reed suspended for hit on Sanders

    Quote Originally Posted by Chidi29 View Post
    The NFL chose to look at it black and white. While the appeals officer looked at the grey area.
    Again...That is what people have been complaining about since the beginning. The league is unable to properly define the hit.
    "I believe the game is designed to reward the ones who hit the hardest. If you can't take it, you shouldn't play"

    -- Jack Lambert --

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    Re: Ed Reed suspended for hit on Sanders

    Quote Originally Posted by LLT View Post
    Again...That is what people have been complaining about since the beginning. The league is unable to properly define the hit.
    They are properly defining the hit. Making contact with the helmet of a defenseless receiver is illegal.

    Now can I explain every single call/no call and fine/no fine the league has made? Of course not. I'm not directly in their head. But that is the rule, and it is pretty clear. At the very least, we know intent is not judged.

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    Re: UPDATE: Ed Reed's suspension lifted

    I'm gonna chime in on the "league has it out for the Steelers" discussion going on here.

    Did Roger Goodell open the 2010 season saying "THIS year, I'm going to SCREW the Steelers." No, I certainly don't believe that. I think he wants what is best for the longterm outlook of the profitability of the league. However, to act like the commissioner is a robot is silly. He's human. He has an ego. A rather big one from what I have seen. And after the slew of Steelers "transgressions" that season, and the bitching they did about it during, I think it's fair to say he was probably a little quick on the trigger when deciding whether or not to discipline a member of this team compared to a member of another. I don't think that's unreasonable to say. Everyone has a certain level of bias, and Goodell is no dfferent. He's not perfect, but he's not a closet Ravens homer either. It is what it is.
    "If you are holding on to something that you no longer need to hold on to, I encourage you to let go." - Rashard Mendenhall

  23. #83

    Re: Ed Reed suspended for hit on Sanders

    Quote Originally Posted by Chidi29 View Post
    They are properly defining the hit. Making contact with the helmet of a defenseless receiver is illegal.

    Now can I explain every single call/no call and fine/no fine the league has made? Of course not. I'm not directly in their head. But that is the rule, and it is pretty clear. At the very least, we know intent is not judged.
    Exactly which is why the leagues half-hearted "safety campaign" is a lesson in futility. Regulating a violent game on one side of the ball is......STUPID!

    Look again at what I wrote....


    But its NOT that simple...even when I played...there where certain ball carriers who lowered their head EVERY TIME. Regardless of how "perfect" my technigue was...or how much I tried to put my head to the side of the ballcarrier...I was going to get my bell rung.

    Officials cannot regulate "intend". In their eyes they see the defensive player lowering his head...and the offensive player lowering his head. Its IMPOSSIBLE to tell who is spearing who....IMPOSSIBLE!!!!!
    ...but through the current "defensless player" rule...the defensive player is guilty regardless of whether he did everything in his power to tackle correctly.

    It can't be explained any clearer that that. Its an arbitrary rule...based on an impossible scenerio...regulated at speeds that make it impossible to determine intent...resulting in unfair and uneven results.


    Its the equivelant of a municipality ...who determines that in order to reduce accidents...they will pass a law saying that cars going North or East are not allowed to collide with cars going South or West. Any collisions will automatically be the fault of those North/East vehicles.

    The South car was in the wrong lane? Too bad...we all understand that the "rule" says North cars cannot make contact with South cars. The driver of the South car was intoxicated? C'mon...we have made it perfectly clear that all North cars are not allowed to hit South cars, right? I mean...they already KNOW this. So why is anyone complaining?
    "I believe the game is designed to reward the ones who hit the hardest. If you can't take it, you shouldn't play"

    -- Jack Lambert --

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    Spaghetti Time Array title="Chidi29 has a reputation beyond repute"> Chidi29's Avatar

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    Re: UPDATE: Ed Reed's suspension lifted

    Players would probably be even angrier if you had this big grey area and tried to make these judgments on the fly. So it's another lose-lose for the team.

  25. #85

    Re: UPDATE: Ed Reed's suspension lifted

    Quote Originally Posted by Chidi29 View Post
    Players would probably be even angrier if you had this big grey area and tried to make these judgments on the fly. So it's another lose-lose for the team.
    Again...it can't be any greyer....Just because you want to label it as such....doesnt take away from its OBVIOUS arbitrary nature.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Chidi29 View Post
    Now can I explain every single call/no call and fine/no fine the league has made? Of course not. I'm not directly in their head. But that is the rule, and it is pretty clear.
    This is the epitome of double-talk. By your own definition "The rule is clear...it just can't be explained"
    "I believe the game is designed to reward the ones who hit the hardest. If you can't take it, you shouldn't play"

    -- Jack Lambert --

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    Re: UPDATE: Ed Reed's suspension lifted

    Quote Originally Posted by LLT View Post
    Again...it can't be any greyer....Just because you want to label it as such....doesnt take away from its OBVIOUS arbitrary nature.

    - - - Updated - - -



    This is the epitome of double-talk. By your own definition "The rule is clear...it just can't be explained"
    No, what I said is clear. I can't speak for the league because I am not the league (obviously). I assummed you were going to retort with why the league made/didn't make a call in one particular instance and I was getting that out of the way. I can't give definitive answers for every specific case because I am not as well-versed in the rules/determinations as the league is.

  27. #87

    Re: UPDATE: Ed Reed's suspension lifted

    Quote Originally Posted by Chidi29 View Post
    No, what I said is clear. I can't speak for the league because I am not the league (obviously). I assummed you were going to retort with why the league made/didn't make a call in one particular instance and I was getting that out of the way. I can't give definitive answers for every specific case because I am not as well-versed in the rules/determinations as the league is.
    Youre lucky I like you.....you give me a headache.
    "I believe the game is designed to reward the ones who hit the hardest. If you can't take it, you shouldn't play"

    -- Jack Lambert --

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    Re: UPDATE: Ed Reed's suspension lifted

    I'll try to be clearer.

    I believe I have a solid understanding of the league's rules.

    But I do not know every single part of the rules. I didn't make the rulebook they use and do not study it as much as I do. So I can not explain every single decision the league makes.

    An analogy. I know my best friend pretty well. But I don't always know what he's going to eat for lunch. I can't explain every action he makes.

  29. #89

    Re: Ed Reed suspended for hit on Sanders

    Quote Originally Posted by LLT View Post
    But its NOT that simple...even when I played...there where certain ball carriers who lowered their head EVERY TIME. Regadrless of how "perfect" my technigue was...or how much I tried to put my head to the side of the ballcarrier...I was going to get my bell rung.
    Ball carriers are not considered "defenseless receivers." One the guy catches the football and regains his ability to defend himself, there is no penalty for a hit to the helmet (outside of the obvious "spearing" type penalty).

    Officials cannot regulate "intend". In their eyes they see the defensive player lowering his head...and the offensive player lowering his head. Its IMPOSSIBLE to tell who is spearing who....IMPOSSIBLE!!!!!
    Exactly. And since it's only the defensive player that has full control of the hit as the offensive player is still unable to protect himself (move, get an arm out, go down, outrun the guy, prepare for a hit, etc.,) they put the onus on the guy doing the hitting.

    Look again at the Ed Reed photo you supplied. If you had no knowledge as to how that play ended, can you tell from that photo if Reeds "intend" was to make head to head contact? Can you tell if Sanders "intend" was initiate head to head contact so as to pick up the penalty?
    But again, intention means absolutely nothing. Either the helmets hit, or they do not hit. That is all. It's a very simple rule.

    Also, I don't buy the "Defensive player can't change" or "Tackles will end up hitting the helmet." You do realize that the Steelers have not hit the helmet of a defenseless player since the Titans game, right? There has been some brutal hits since them, but none of them were helmet to helmet. Clark got a bogus call on one due to his reputation, but that seems to have even changed the officials view of Clark playing (I thought it'd take two or three more, glad I was wrong).

    So, I'm sorry, but if one of the biggest offenders in the league can change the way he hits and still be effective, everyone else can as well. I don't buy making excuses for multi-million dollar players not being able to adjust to a rule change-especially when Clark has shown that it can be done.


  30. #90
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    Re: Ed Reed suspended for hit on Sanders

    Quote Originally Posted by Preacher View Post
    Ball carriers are not considered "defenseless receivers." One the guy catches the football and regains his ability to defend himself, there is no penalty for a hit to the helmet (outside of the obvious "spearing" type penalty).

    Exactly. And since it's only the defensive player that has full control of the hit as the offensive player is still unable to protect himself (move, get an arm out, go down, outrun the guy, prepare for a hit, etc.,) they put the onus on the guy doing the hitting.

    But again, intention means absolutely nothing. Either the helmets hit, or they do not hit. That is all. It's a very simple rule.

    Also, I don't buy the "Defensive player can't change" or "Tackles will end up hitting the helmet." You do realize that the Steelers have not hit the helmet of a defenseless player since the Titans game, right? There has been some brutal hits since them, but none of them were helmet to helmet. Clark got a bogus call on one due to his reputation, but that seems to have even changed the officials view of Clark playing (I thought it'd take two or three more, glad I was wrong).

    So, I'm sorry, but if one of the biggest offenders in the league can change the way he hits and still be effective, everyone else can as well. I don't buy making excuses for multi-million dollar players not being able to adjust to a rule change-especially when Clark has shown that it can be done.
    Man. I've got a lot of respect for what you have to say around here, but this is starting to sound a little ...


    See you Space Cowboy ...

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