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Thread: MSNBC: UPDATE, OBAMA ECONOMIC DISCUSSION

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    Senior Member Array title="zulater has a reputation beyond repute"> zulater's Avatar

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    Re: MSNBC really is more partisan than Fox, according to Pew study

    Paychecks are shrunken after more than a decade in which the workplace has asked more of wage earners and rewarded them less. The decline has knocked someone at the midpoint of the salary scale back to where he or she would have been in 1996.
    Then, the subway fare, still paid by token, was $1.50, gasoline was $1.23 a gallon and the median rent for a stabilized apartment was $600 a month. Today, the base MetroCard subway fare is $2.25, gasoline is in the $3.90 range and the median stabilized rent is $1,050, with all the increases outpacing wage growth.
    A crisis of long duration, the gap between purchasing power and the necessities of life widened after the 2008 meltdown revealed that the U.S. economy was built on toothpicks — and they snapped.
    Nine million jobs evaporated. The typical American family saw $50,000 vanish from its net worth, and its median household income dropped by more than $87 a week. New Yorkers got off with a $54 weekly hit.



    Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/c...#ixzz2BGJDlokR

    Stabilized? My ass.
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

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    Re: MSNBC really is more partisan than Fox, according to Pew study

    Quote Originally Posted by zulater View Post
    And not everyone agrees with that assessment. Or more to the point, if you want to call what he's done "stabilizing the economy" perhaps that's somewhat supportable. But stabilizing isn't enough, and we think Romeny offers a chance to actually do more than that.
    Exactly. I have no issue with anyone telling me they think Obama can do more for the country over the next four years than Romney, even if I disagree, but don't dare try and tell me his first term was some sort of success when he has failed at nearly every level and the numbers support that to a point that isn't even arguable.

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    Re: MSNBC really is more partisan than Fox, according to Pew study

    Quote Originally Posted by Seven View Post
    Exactly. I have no issue with anyone telling me they think Obama can do more for the country over the next for years than Romney, even if I disagree, but don't dare try and tell me his first term was some sort of success when he has failed at nearly every level and the numbers support that to a point that isn't even arguable.
    By Obama's own pre administration standards that he projected for his first term he's failed!
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

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    Re: MSNBC really is more partisan than Fox, according to Pew study

    Quote Originally Posted by zulater View Post
    And not everyone agrees with that assessment. Or more to the point, if you want to call what he's done "stabilizing the economy" perhaps that's somewhat supportable. But stabilizing isn't enough, and we think Romeny offers a chance to actually do more than that.
    Did i say we are in great shape no i did not, but the economy has stabilized , and i get you want romney and thats fine i dont care about who your voting for. All i have said is he stabilized the economy i never said it was fixed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seven View Post
    Exactly. I have no issue with anyone telling me they think Obama can do more for the country over the next for years than Romney, even if I disagree, but don't dare try and tell me his first term was some sort of success when he has failed at nearly every level and the numbers support that to a point that isn't even arguable.
    Did i say he was a success? No! is the economy better than 4 years ago, absolutely it is and the numbers support that!!!

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    Re: MSNBC really is more partisan than Fox, according to Pew study

    Quote Originally Posted by steeldawg View Post
    Did i say he was a success? No! is the economy better than 4 years ago, absolutely it is and the numbers support that!!!
    Food stamp usage is up nearly 50%. Unemployment when Obama took office was 7.8%, it is now 7.9%. The national debt has gone from 10 trillion to 16 trillion.

    Is there an echo in here?

    So tell me, what over the last four years has Obama done to earn your vote? Other than "stabilizing" the economy, whatever that is supposed to be worth.

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    Re: MSNBC really is more partisan than Fox, according to Pew study

    Quote Originally Posted by steeldawg View Post
    Did i say we are in great shape no i did not, but the economy has stabilized , and i get you want romney and thats fine i dont care about who your voting for. All i have said is he stabilized the economy i never said it was fixed.
    On average Americans are worse off than they were when he took office. I would even say that Americans on average have less disposable income now than they did two years ago. So how's that stabilizing the economy? Trot out what stats you want, but I see it at the grocery store, it's harder now than at anytime in my 52 years of life for an average American to make ends meet. That's what I see and hear with my own eyes and ears in example every single day.
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

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    Re: MSNBC really is more partisan than Fox, according to Pew study

    Quote Originally Posted by steeldawg View Post
    I did not i simply asked him if there was a country that was successful that got there with no goverment , taxes or spending.

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    I said he stabilized the economy
    ^ That's precisely my point. "No government, taxes or spending" has absolutely nothing to do with *his* argument. It's a conflation, and a particularly egregious one. A libertarian would never conflate limited constitutional government with no government, yet you did.
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

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    Re: MSNBC really is more partisan than Fox, according to Pew study

    And Steeldawg, I'm not trying to be an ass. But you are the one who decided to take a shot at my decision to vote for Governor Romney, so I am enjoying seeing you backpeddle.

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    Re: MSNBC really is more partisan than Fox, according to Pew study

    Quote Originally Posted by Seven View Post
    Food stamp usage is up nearly 50%. Unemployment when Obama took office was 7.8%, it is now 7.9%. The national debt has gone from 10 trillion to 16 trillion.

    Is there an echo in here?

    So tell me, what over the last four years has Obama done to earn your vote? Other than "stabilizing" the economy, whatever that is supposed to be worth.
    "Stabilizing the economy". All it is is spin. Economist can spin numbers to say whatever the hell they want. It doesn't make your pay check (if you're lucky enough to be getting one regularly) go any further though.


    American on average are worse off now finacially than at any time since the end of WWII. And with the debt continuing to skyrocket, it's not stabilizing whatsoever, it's only getting worse as that number grows ever higher.
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

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    Re: MSNBC really is more partisan than Fox, according to Pew study

    So it would appear that no one has anything else to say about MSNBC being more partisan than Fox.

    Let's be careful how far off track we are going here.

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    Re: MSNBC really is more partisan than Fox, according to Pew study

    Quote Originally Posted by zulater View Post
    On average Americans are worse off than they were when he took office. I would even say that Americans on average have less disposable income now than they did two years ago. So how's that stabilizing the economy? Trot out what stats you want, but I see it at the grocery store, it's harder now than at anytime in my 52 years of life for an average American to make ends meet. That's what I see and hear with my own eyes and ears in example every single day.
    This does not mean that its worse thann four years ago. four years ago the financial crisis was accelerating, the recession was rapidly getting worse, and unemployment was skyrocketing. In 2009 obama passed the stimulus in march january and the economy experienced growth in every quarter after that. Our gdp per captia has grown and so has personal in come per capita. Were some areas hit harder than others absolutely but on a national level yes the economy stabilized and has been in slow recovery.

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    Re: MSNBC really is more partisan than Fox, according to Pew study

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Steeler View Post
    So it would appear that no one has anything else to say about MSNBC being more partisan than Fox.

    Let's be careful how far off track we are going here.
    Getting back to the OP. Imagine how much more evident that bias would be if liberal shill Keith Olbermann hadn't been canned!
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

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    Re: MSNBC really is more partisan than Fox, according to Pew study

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Steeler View Post
    So it would appear that no one has anything else to say about MSNBC being more partisan than Fox.

    Let's be careful how far off track we are going here.
    Ok sorry msnbc and fox suck!!!

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    Re: MSNBC really is more partisan than Fox, according to Pew study

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Steeler View Post
    So it would appear that no one has anything else to say about MSNBC being more partisan than Fox.

    Let's be careful how far off track we are going here.
    Yeah, you right.

    MSNBC isn't just partisan, it's so ideologically out-of-step with the mainstream that they can't even pretend to be providing entertainment, let alone "journalism". They are a very unapologetic source for ultra- lefty propaganda, and that's it.
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

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    Re: MSNBC really is more partisan than Fox, according to Pew study

    Quote Originally Posted by steeldawg View Post
    This does not mean that its worse thann four years ago. four years ago the financial crisis was accelerating, the recession was rapidly getting worse, and unemployment was skyrocketing. In 2009 obama passed the stimulus in march january and the economy experienced growth in every quarter after that. Our gdp per captia has grown and so has personal in come per capita. Were some areas hit harder than others absolutely but on a national level yes the economy stabilized and has been in slow recovery.
    GNP always grows. I've been told that it's "growth" has never been slower than the last 4 years. Don't have time to look it up at the moment, but citing minimal growth in the GNP isn't exactly a ringing endorsment of Obama policy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by steeldawg View Post
    Ok sorry msnbc and fox suck!!!
    Fox sucks less though!

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    Here's my view of the economic stabilization. Obama took the plane out of a power dive, but he's still aiming it at the base of the mountain in a non ending descent to oblivian.
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

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    Re: MSNBC really is more partisan than Fox, according to Pew study

    Quote Originally Posted by zulater View Post
    GNP always grows. I've been told that it's "growth" has never been slower than the last 4 years. Don't have time to look it up at the moment, but citing minimal growth in the GNP isn't exactly a ringing endorsment of Obama policy.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Fox sucks less though!

    No endorsements but being finacial free fall four years ago and now in a period of slow growth i dont no what else to call it beside stabilizing it

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    Re: MSNBC really is more partisan than Fox, according to Pew study

    Quote Originally Posted by steeldawg View Post
    No endorsements but being finacial free fall four years ago and now in a period of slow growth i dont no what else to call it beside stabilizing it
    Did the GNP ever drop under Bush?
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

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    Re: MSNBC: UPDATE, OBAMA ECONOMIC DISCUSSION

    OK, I changed the topic of this thread. Obviously, no one really wants to talk about MSNBC and Fox.

    Keep it civil.

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    Re: MSNBC really is more partisan than Fox, according to Pew study

    Quote Originally Posted by zulater View Post
    Fox sucks less though!
    Depends on what standard you're using to quantify suckiness. If the measure is unbiased and dilligent journalism, who *doesn't* suck, and suck out loud?
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

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    Re: MSNBC really is more partisan than Fox, according to Pew study

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Steeler View Post
    So it would appear that no one has anything else to say about MSNBC being more partisan than Fox.

    Let's be careful how far off track we are going here.
    To be fair I feel like that conversation was in the realm of reasonability regarding the OP, considering that the misinformation some of the posters here seem to believe is probably propoganda straight from partisan networks, such as MSNBC - but point taken

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    Re: MSNBC: UPDATE, OBAMA ECONOMIC DISCUSSION

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Steeler View Post
    OK, I changed the topic of this thread. Obviously, no one really wants to talk about MSNBC and Fox.

    Keep it civil.
    Dammit! Now *I'm* off topic!
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

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    Re: MSNBC: UPDATE, OBAMA ECONOMIC DISCUSSION

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    Dammit! Now *I'm* off topic!
    Nothing new!

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    Re: MSNBC: UPDATE, OBAMA ECONOMIC DISCUSSION

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    Dammit! Now *I'm* off topic!
    Yeah, the head of steam I had worked up has kind of rolled to a crawl now haha.

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    Re: MSNBC: UPDATE, OBAMA ECONOMIC DISCUSSION

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Steeler View Post
    OK, I changed the topic of this thread. Obviously, no one really wants to talk about MSNBC and Fox.

    Keep it civil.
    A moving thread is never a bad thing.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    Depends on what standard you're using to quantify suckiness. If the measure is unbiased and dilligent journalism, who *doesn't* suck, and suck out loud?
    I used to love Tim Russert. He was always fair and informative.
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

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    Re: MSNBC: UPDATE, OBAMA ECONOMIC DISCUSSION

    Okay. Obama and the economy....

    Partisans on both sides like to reject all the blame leveled at them and pin everything on the other team. The reality is that both parties have the exact same economic policy, differing only in semantics and rhetoric.
    Who's to blame for this mess, the Democrats or the Republicans? YES! The Keynesian economic philosophy that both parties employ is directly responsible for all of the bubbles, boom/ bust cycles, inflation, and debt.
    Keynesianism is horrible for the economy, but good for politicians. We won't get away from that until either a) one of the two parties rejects it or b) the entire system collapses under its own weight. My money is on b.
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

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    Re: MSNBC: UPDATE, OBAMA ECONOMIC DISCUSSION

    I'm not an expert, so I need someone to explain to me how Obama's policies stabilized the economy. All I've heard (from the Obama administration) is that it took a long time for us to get into this mess, and it's going to take a long time to get out. I agree with that. Like I said, the economy is a huge machine and it takes time for changes to move it one way or the other. But yet I'm expected to believe that Obama's policies slammed the breaks and ended the free fall in just 4 or 5 months? The economists who preach this are the same people who preach that Clinton's policies created 23 million jobs (while conveniently ignoring the computer and Internet revolution, of course). If Obama's policies were so effective that they stopped the free fall in just 4 or 5 months, then why haven't those same policies been able to create any jobs in the following 3 1/2 years?

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    Re: MSNBC: UPDATE, OBAMA ECONOMIC DISCUSSION

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    Okay. Obama and the economy....

    Partisans on both sides like to reject all the blame leveled at them and pin everything on the other team. The reality is that both parties have the exact same economic policy, differing only in semantics and rhetoric.
    Who's to blame for this mess, the Democrats or the Republicans? YES! The Keynesian economic philosophy that both parties employ is directly responsible for all of the bubbles, boom/ bust cycles, inflation, and debt.
    Keynesianism is horrible for the economy, but good for politicians. We won't get away from that until either a) one of the two parties rejects it or b) the entire system collapses under its own weight. My money is on b.
    I agree. I sure hope they learn from it when it finally happens. However, they will just blame the party in power and just start the BS over again.

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    Re: MSNBC: UPDATE, OBAMA ECONOMIC DISCUSSION

    Quote Originally Posted by zulater View Post
    A moving thread is never a bad thing.
    We all know MSNBC is the most biased network out there. There's nothing to discuss. If the topic had stayed on MSNBC, this thread wouldn't have made it off Page 1.

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    Re: MSNBC: UPDATE, OBAMA ECONOMIC DISCUSSION

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Steeler View Post
    I agree. I sure hope they learn from it when it finally happens. However, they will just blame the party in power and just start the BS over again.
    I'm strangely (uncharacteristically?) hopeful that they will learn from it. Look at Germany and how much more fiscally responsible they are than everyone else. It took a complete economic meltdown to teach them that, and now the German people and government have a borderline paranoid aversion to all things Keynesian.
    I think we can do the same thing.
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

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    Re: MSNBC: UPDATE, OBAMA ECONOMIC DISCUSSION

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    I'm strangely (uncharacteristically?) hopeful that they will learn from it. Look at Germany and how much more fiscally responsible they are than everyone else. It took a complete economic meltdown to teach them that, and now the German people and government have a borderline paranoid aversion to all things Keynesian.
    I think we can do the same thing.
    It will certainly take a new breed of politician, one with a blatant disregard for the media and it's opinion. It is the media, in the current state of affairs, that is a power player. Instead of just reporting they try to persuade the electorate and that is wrong.

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