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Thread: MSNBC: UPDATE, OBAMA ECONOMIC DISCUSSION

  1. #31
    Senior Member Array title="steeldawg is a jewel in the rough">

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    Re: MSNBC really is more partisan than Fox, according to Pew study

    Quote Originally Posted by GBMelBlount View Post
    Who but a liberal would interpret "limited government" as "without goverment"?

    How utterly ignorant.

    Admittedly I have lost count of how many liberals have ignorantly tried to equate any desire to limit government as being anti government or pro anarchy. It is beyond embarrrassing. Of course most who twist these words usually live off the government teet or benefit from big government at the the expense of tax payers....and have no other response than to twist and deflect....so it is a "convenient" ignorance in most cases.
    I didnt interpret anything i asked you simple question, i know perfectly well what limited goverment means. You have once again resorted to insults instead of just answering a question.

  2. #32
    Conservatarian Array title="Wallace108 is a splendid one to behold"> Wallace108's Avatar

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    Re: MSNBC really is more partisan than Fox, according to Pew study

    Quote Originally Posted by steeldawg View Post
    Really? Without the stimulus and the auto industry bailouts, the economy wouldve stabilized itself?
    Yes, because that's what happened. The U.S. economy is a huge machine. It takes a long time for any changes to ripple through the system. All of the policies Obama put in place would have taken a considerable amount of time to start affecting the overall economy. But just months after Obama took office, there were signs that the economy was stabilizing:

    From July 2009: Fed Report Shows Economy Stabilizing http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-500395_162-5196014.html
    From August 2009: So the Economy Stabilized, but Just How Much? http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...080202017.html
    From September 2009: Fed's 'Beige Book' says economy 'stabilized' during summer http://www.dailyfinance.com/2009/09/...during-summer/

    The economy had stabilized in the summer of 2009, not because of Obama's policies but because of self-correction. Stabilization occurred before the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act (stimulus) even had a chance to start having any kind of effect. Remember ... even Obama admitted that those shovel-ready projects weren't as shovel-ready as we were told they were.

    Quote Originally Posted by steeldawg View Post
    Well i guess thats it then, anything thats bad under obama is because of his policies and anything thats good well that occured on its own.
    I can assure you I'm not an ideologue. I don't worship at the altar of any political party.

    Quote Originally Posted by steeldawg View Post
    I saw a funny poll the other day, republicans in ohio were asked who desreves more credit for the death of osama bin laden Mitt Romney or Barrack Obama? 38% Obama 47% Unsure and 15% MITT ROMNEY???? Wow just goes to show no matter what he does it will not be acknowledged by republicans.
    That just goes to show you how unreliable polls are. I live in Ohio and I talk to a lot of people. I've never met anyone who credits Romney with the killing of bin Laden. Answers to poll questions can be heavily influenced by many factors, including how the questions are structured. Here's some good info on the poll you're referencing: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...-probably-not/

  3. #33
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    Re: MSNBC really is more partisan than Fox, according to Pew study

    Quote Originally Posted by steeldawg View Post
    I didnt interpret anything i asked you simple question, i know perfectly well what limited goverment means. You have once again resorted to insults instead of just answering a question.
    Well, he's got a point, because anyone who calls himself or herself a Libertarian would never champion any kind of government spending programs like the spendulus and most, if not all, bailouts. They usually believe in limited government (some to extreme levels) and leaving the markets to sort themselves out. So either you're arguing for the sake of arguing, or you're a wolf in sheep's clothing.








  4. #34
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    Re: MSNBC really is more partisan than Fox, according to Pew study

    Quote Originally Posted by X-Terminator View Post
    Well, he's got a point, because anyone who calls himself or herself a Libertarian would never champion any kind of government spending programs like the spendulus and most, if not all, bailouts. They usually believe in limited government (some to extreme levels) and leaving the markets to sort themselves out. So either you're arguing for the sake of arguing, or you're a wolf in sheep's clothing.
    Bingo!


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    Re: MSNBC really is more partisan than Fox, according to Pew study

    Quote Originally Posted by X-Terminator View Post
    Well, he's got a point, because anyone who calls himself or herself a Libertarian would never champion any kind of government spending programs like the spendulus and most, if not all, bailouts. They usually believe in limited government (some to extreme levels) and leaving the markets to sort themselves out. So either you're arguing for the sake of arguing, or you're a wolf in sheep's clothing.
    Yes libertarians believe in limited govermant, but it dosent have anything to do with what i asked him. I didnt champion the stimulus but it did help stabalize the economy, this is not my interpretation this is from the CBO and many economists. I didnt think the stimulus would help at all when it was signed into law but it did in fact help. Republicans also had a stimulus bill on the table at that time, and guess whats coming if Romney is elected more stimulus. If you read my response to his statement that no goverment has taxed or spent their way to prosperity, it was a simple question, do you know any successful country's that do not tax, spend or have no goverment at all? I am a Libertarian like it or not, I dont criticize everything dems do,like most on this site and i dont critcize republicans for everything they do. I am more interested in what works for the country not trying to promote a certain party. Our choice is apparently romney or obama, Im not voting for either but i think obama is a better choice. The problem on this site is the bias is so strong its almost laughable, I can venture outside of my libertarian views and say hey that worked or that was a good idea, even it it doesnt line up with my philosphy of how the country should operate. If romney wins i will say i was wrong about the election, and if he turns the country around i will support him, i dont think he will but im not afraid to give credit where credit is do.

  6. #36
    Senior Member Array title="zulater has a reputation beyond repute"> zulater's Avatar

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    Re: MSNBC really is more partisan than Fox, according to Pew study

    Quote Originally Posted by steeldawg View Post
    Yes libertarians believe in limited govermant, but it dosent have anything to do with what i asked him. I didnt champion the stimulus but it did help stabalize the economy, this is not my interpretation this is from the CBO and many economists. I didnt think the stimulus would help at all when it was signed into law but it did in fact help. Republicans also had a stimulus bill on the table at that time, and guess whats coming if Romney is elected more stimulus. If you read my response to his statement that no goverment has taxed or spent their way to prosperity, it was a simple question, do you know any successful country's that do not tax, spend or have no goverment at all? I am a Libertarian like it or not, I dont criticize everything dems do,like most on this site and i dont critcize republicans for everything they do. I am more interested in what works for the country not trying to promote a certain party. Our choice is apparently romney or obama, Im not voting for either but i think obama is a better choice. The problem on this site is the bias is so strong its almost laughable, I can venture outside of my libertarian views and say hey that worked or that was a good idea, even it it doesnt line up with my philosphy of how the country should operate. If romney wins i will say i was wrong about the election, and if he turns the country around i will support him, i dont think he will but im not afraid to give credit where credit is do.
    Thank you for gracing our ignorant, biased, and "laughable" views with your presence oh wise and all knowing one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by X-Terminator View Post
    Well, he's got a point, because anyone who calls himself or herself a Libertarian would never champion any kind of government spending programs like the spendulus and most, if not all, bailouts. They usually believe in limited government (some to extreme levels) and leaving the markets to sort themselves out. So either you're arguing for the sake of arguing, or you're a wolf in sheep's clothing.
    I pick option B.
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

  7. #37
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    Re: MSNBC really is more partisan than Fox, according to Pew study

    Quote Originally Posted by zulater View Post
    Thank you for gracing our ignorant, biased, and "laughable" views with your presence oh wise and all knowing one.
    Your right no bias on this site, its very open minded.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zulater View Post
    Thank you for gracing our ignorant, biased, and "laughable" views with your presence oh wise and all knowing one.

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    I pick option B.
    You would because you guys like the strawman arguements.

  8. #38
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    Re: MSNBC really is more partisan than Fox, according to Pew study

    Quote Originally Posted by steeldawg View Post
    Your right no bias on this site, its very open minded.
    Everyone has some bias. Doesn't mean your opinion wasn't rationally formed or you closed yourself off to all other possibilities.

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    Quote Originally Posted by steeldawg View Post
    Your right no bias on this site, its very open minded.

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    You would because you guys like the strawman arguements.
    Case in point?

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    By the way this thread is supposed to be about MSNBC's over the top bias, not a referendum on Steeldawg's perception of his fellow message board poster's bias.
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

  9. #39
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    Re: MSNBC really is more partisan than Fox, according to Pew study

    Quote Originally Posted by zulater View Post
    Everyone has some bias. Doesn't mean your opinion wasn't rationally formed or you closed yourself off to all other possibilities.

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    Case in point?
    Just read this thread, most responses to my posts have nothing to do with what i posted. yours for instance i said the stimulus and auto bailouts helped stabilize the economy, and you responded about myths of obama saving the auto industry and romney wanting it to go bankrupt. Then i ask mel a question and i get told im ignorant and then terminator says he has a point because im a champion of the stimulus. Look its pretty simple to see before i even disclosed what my political leanings were everyone on here was attacking me for being a liberal because my support wasnt for romney and i wasnt bashing obama at every turn.

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    1 at a time Array title="Count Steeler has a reputation beyond repute"> Count Steeler's Avatar

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    Re: MSNBC really is more partisan than Fox, according to Pew study

    Quote Originally Posted by steeldawg View Post
    Just read this thread, most responses to my posts have nothing to do with what i posted. yours for instance i said the stimulus and auto bailouts helped stabilize the economy, and you responded about myths of obama saving the auto industry and romney wanting it to go bankrupt. Then i ask mel a question and i get told im ignorant and then terminator says he has a point because im a champion of the stimulus. Look its pretty simple to see before i even disclosed what my political leanings were everyone on here was attacking me for being a liberal because my support wasnt for romney and i wasnt bashing obama at every turn.
    This would be true if you only look at one thread. However, most of us remember what we read in other threads. You being a libertarian is well established from other posts, from other threads.

  11. #41
    Senior Member Array title="zulater has a reputation beyond repute"> zulater's Avatar

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    Re: MSNBC really is more partisan than Fox, according to Pew study

    Quote Originally Posted by steeldawg View Post
    Just read this thread, most responses to my posts have nothing to do with what i posted. yours for instance i said the stimulus and auto bailouts helped stabilize the economy, and you responded about myths of obama saving the auto industry and romney wanting it to go bankrupt. Then i ask mel a question and i get told im ignorant and then terminator says he has a point because im a champion of the stimulus. Look its pretty simple to see before i even disclosed what my political leanings were everyone on here was attacking me for being a liberal because my support wasnt for romney and i wasnt bashing obama at every turn.
    I disagree with your overall point that Obama's stabilized our economy. You used his GM bailout as an example of such, so I posted something I believe contradicts that point.

    If that's a strawman argument, guilty as charged.
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

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    Smashmouth Posting Array title="Seven has much to be proud of"> Seven's Avatar

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    Re: MSNBC really is more partisan than Fox, according to Pew study

    Quote Originally Posted by steeldawg View Post
    the economy is better than it was when obama took office. The tax cuts only helped inflate the debt and created more money for companies to keep, im not going to go into all this again because the economic impact of the tax cuts is well documented and can easily be found. Obama no he did not fix the economy, but he did stabalize it. I will ask you now name the obama policies that sent the economy out of control?
    Food stamp usage is up nearly 50%. Unemployment when Obama took office was 7.8%, it is now 7.9%. The national debt has gone from 10 trillion to 16 trillion. Yeah, the economy is better. What a joke.

    "“If I don’t have this done in three years, then there’s going to be a one-term proposition.”




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    Quote Originally Posted by Seven View Post
    "“If I don’t have this done in three years, then there’s going to be a one-term proposition.”
    That might be the only promise Obama ever made that he's going to keep.

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    Re: MSNBC really is more partisan than Fox, according to Pew study

    Quote Originally Posted by zulater View Post
    I disagree with your overall point that Obama's stabilized our economy. You used his GM bailout as an example of such, so I posted something I believe contradicts that point.

    If that's a strawman argument, guilty as charged.
    I read the article but it has nothing to with stabilizing the economy it simply shows that romney wanted a different bankrupcy path for the auto industry. It was showing that romney did not want the industry to go out of business thats all and really didnt have to do with obama stabilizing the economy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seven View Post
    Food stamp usage is up nearly 50%. Unemployment when Obama took office was 7.8%, it is now 7.9%. The national debt has gone from 10 trillion to 16 trillion. Yeah, the economy is better. What a joke.

    "“If I don’t have this done in three years, then there’s going to be a one-term proposition.”




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    That might be the only promise Obama ever made that he's going to keep.
    http://www.businessinsider.com/are-y...ts-2012-9?op=1

    Here some charts that might shed some light on things.

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    Re: MSNBC really is more partisan than Fox, according to Pew study

    Quote Originally Posted by steeldawg View Post
    I read the article but it has nothing to with stabilizing the economy it simply shows that romney wanted a different bankrupcy path for the auto industry. It was showing that romney did not want the industry to go out of business thats all and really didnt have to do with obama stabilizing the economy.

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    http://www.businessinsider.com/are-y...ts-2012-9?op=1

    Here some charts that might shed some light on things.
    Economics is like any good joke. It's not complicated. If you have to think about it too hard, it doesn't work. Average household income has gone down under Obama. So leave the detailed charts at home. Because quite simply, less money doesn't equate "better off"; particularly when things such as gas prices continue to rise under failing federal policies.

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    Re: MSNBC really is more partisan than Fox, according to Pew study

    Quote Originally Posted by steeldawg View Post
    I read the article but it has nothing to with stabilizing the economy it simply shows that romney wanted a different bankrupcy path for the auto industry. It was showing that romney did not want the industry to go out of business thats all and really didnt have to do with obama stabilizing the economy.

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    http://www.businessinsider.com/are-y...ts-2012-9?op=1

    Here some charts that might shed some light on things.
    Oh your charts clear up everything, because well they're just indisputable. No economists of any repute disagree with them. Nothing anyone else here could post could in any way lessen their validity.
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

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    Re: MSNBC really is more partisan than Fox, according to Pew study

    From those charts: "The real GDP growth rate for the past three years, moreover, is similar to the most of the growth years of the Bush administration."

    Well, aren't we reaching for the stars!

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    Re: MSNBC really is more partisan than Fox, according to Pew study

    Quote Originally Posted by Seven View Post
    Economics is like any good joke. It's not complicated. If you have to think about it too hard, it doesn't work. Average household income has gone down under Obama. So leave the detailed charts at home. Because quite simply, less money doesn't equate "better off"; particularly when things such as gas prices continue to rise under failing federal policies.
    Hey why let facts get in the way, believe what you want.

  18. #48
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    Re: MSNBC really is more partisan than Fox, according to Pew study

    Quote Originally Posted by steeldawg View Post
    Just read this thread, most responses to my posts have nothing to do with what i posted. yours for instance i said the stimulus and auto bailouts helped stabilize the economy, and you responded about myths of obama saving the auto industry and romney wanting it to go bankrupt. Then i ask mel a question and i get told im ignorant and then terminator says he has a point because im a champion of the stimulus. Look its pretty simple to see before i even disclosed what my political leanings were everyone on here was attacking me for being a liberal because my support wasnt for romney and i wasnt bashing obama at every turn.
    Actually, there *was* one very important response that you didn't address at all: You conflated "limited" government with "no" government. That's a very obvious false choice fallacy, and not one that a libertarian (small l) would ever make.
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

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    Re: MSNBC really is more partisan than Fox, according to Pew study

    Quote Originally Posted by steeldawg View Post
    Hey why let facts get in the way, believe what you want.
    Seems to be your motto.
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

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    Re: MSNBC really is more partisan than Fox, according to Pew study

    Quote Originally Posted by steeldawg View Post
    Hey why let facts get in the way, believe what you want.
    I just gave you the facts two posts ago. I'm not the one ignoring them.

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  21. #51
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    Re: MSNBC really is more partisan than Fox, according to Pew study

    Quote Originally Posted by Seven View Post
    I just gave you the facts two posts ago. I'm not the one ignoring them.
    No no no Seven, you just don't get it. His facts are the only ones that matter.
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

  22. #52
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    Re: MSNBC really is more partisan than Fox, according to Pew study

    I give up , if you really believe obama caused the financial situation the country was in and that the economy has gotten worse thenn it was four years ago then you are simply not doing your homework.

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    Re: MSNBC really is more partisan than Fox, according to Pew study

    Quote Originally Posted by steeldawg View Post
    I give up , if you really believe obama caused the financial situation the country was in and that the economy has gotten worse thenn it was four years ago then you are simply not doing your homework.
    He didn't cause the financial situation, but no one is saying he did. All I'm saying is that it's insanely obvious he doesn't know how to fix it. I'm not sure Romney can either, but Obama has already gotten his shot and made things worse. So he's fired.

    Again,

    Food stamp usage is up nearly 50%. Unemployment when Obama took office was 7.8%, it is now 7.9%. The national debt has gone from 10 trillion to 16 trillion.

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    Re: MSNBC really is more partisan than Fox, according to Pew study

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    Actually, there *was* one very important response that you didn't address at all: You conflated "limited" government with "no" government. That's a very obvious false choice fallacy, and not one that a libertarian (small l) would ever make.
    I did not i simply asked him if there was a country that was successful that got there with no goverment , taxes or spending.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seven View Post
    He didn't cause the financial situation, but no one is saying he did. All I'm saying is that it's insanely obvious he doesn't know how to fix it.

    Again.

    Food stamp usage is up nearly 50%. Unemployment when Obama took office was 7.8%, it is now 7.9%. The national debt has gone from 10 trillion to 16 trillion.
    I said he stabilized the economy

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    Re: MSNBC really is more partisan than Fox, according to Pew study

    Quote Originally Posted by steeldawg View Post
    I give up , if you really believe obama caused the financial situation the country was in and that the economy has gotten worse thenn it was four years ago then you are simply not doing your homework.
    Was in? No. Obviously he inherited a mess. Do I beleive it has gotten worse. Yes I do. Simply put, people on average have considerably less money than they did four years ago. So I believe that qualifies as a fail.
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

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    Re: MSNBC really is more partisan than Fox, according to Pew study

    I never once said limited goverment = no goverment

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    Re: MSNBC really is more partisan than Fox, according to Pew study

    Quote Originally Posted by steeldawg View Post
    I said he stabilized the economy
    Yes, and you were wrong.

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    Re: MSNBC really is more partisan than Fox, according to Pew study

    Quote Originally Posted by Seven View Post
    Yes, and you were wrong.
    No i was right

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    Re: MSNBC really is more partisan than Fox, according to Pew study

    Quote Originally Posted by steeldawg View Post
    I did not i simply asked him if there was a country that was successful that got there with no goverment , taxes or spending.

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    I said he stabilized the economy
    And not everyone agrees with that assessment. Or more to the point, if you want to call what he's done "stabilizing the economy" perhaps that's somewhat supportable. But stabilizing isn't enough, and we think Romeny offers a chance to actually do more than that.
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

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    Re: MSNBC really is more partisan than Fox, according to Pew study

    Quote Originally Posted by steeldawg View Post
    No i was right
    Haha. Wow, I've never been fond of the term "sheeple" but I can't think of any better way to describe your views.

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