We could debate Arians until the Browns win their first Super Bowl (if we live that long), but at the end of the day, we're all nothing but armchair quarterbacks. Our opinions are just that ... opinions. But here's something that's not debatable: Owners generally don't fire coaches because they like them and think they're doing a hell of a job.
Nor do they keep them around for five years because they think they're horrible and doing a bad job. I've never said he was a great OC. Heck, I woudn't call him a pretty good OC. Never have, not in one thread. I'd put him at average to average/good, at best.
My argument about him, for the five years he was here, was the fact that he was scapegoated for many of the teams problems.
Because they wanted to go a different direction. He had worn out his usefullness. Ben is fully developed now. The WR's are great, possibly the best WR core in the NFL, but our run game sucked. Run games wasn't his strength, so now they bring in someone who can utilize the passing game he built and restore a bit of the run game. He is limited in thinking and inflexible, I doubt anyone would argue against that. But that doesn't negate the fact that he oversaw the shift from an ailing run team in 06 and 07, to one of the best passing teams in the NFLOriginally Posted by Butch
(Oops. According to NCSteeler, I shouldn't have responded because I'm just keeping the thread going. Sorry)
I agree with that assessment.
There's some truth to that, Preacher. Arians sometimes got blamed for Ben's mistakes and other players' failure to execute. Not once did Arians ever fumble, drop a pass, miss a block, or throw a bad pass. But I had a lot of problems with Arians. In my opinion, his negatives far outweighed his positives. No matter how I feel about Arians as a coach, I respect you and others who have a different opinion.
Monkeys, meet calculator...
Fire Goodell
Hell, I'll take the ban. Your just being stupid and ignorant now. If you and Suit don't like seeing these thread "blown up" then don't create the discussion. The OP and a few more could have easily posted their opinions and the thread would have drifted to the bottom where it belongs, by responding you create a discussion which you profess you don't want to have. Whatever
Merry Christmas
That's part of the fun. Monkey gets frustrated, throws calculator at wall.
Don't blame me for you and a few others sick fascination with everything Arians. He's gone. He was better than you and yours ever gave him credit for, you were mostly wrong about him (although sometimes right), and now it's time to move on. If people would stop posting stupid shit about him, I'll stop responding by saying what stupid shit it is. Until then, around and around and around we go...
Fire Goodell
can we get a lock to a now useless thread
Why don't we replace the NASCAR forum (which nobody posts in) with a "Bruce Arians Hater" forum, and the 5-10 people who can't stop talking/thinking about him can go bitch and moan there?
Fire Goodell
Why are you getting so defensive?
I personally see NO problem in discussing Bruce Arians, as long as it's in the NFL forum where it belongs. I feel the same way about ANY coordinator, and the fact that Arians' is our former OC, it makes for good discussion.
I personally thought Arians was a OC with a good gameplan who used it wrong, and that's my opinion. But like I said, I think this could be a good discussion, and i'm not sure why some of you are getting bent out of shape. Not my choice whether or not the discussion lives or not, though. Or even if it has a purpose.
If this aint a pot meets kettle statement then I guess I don't know what is.Don't blame me for you and a few others sick fascination with everything Arians.
Gotta give ya' at least this much Suitanim you do know how to make me laugh.
Remember the Red Zone Defense thread??? Hell you pulled that one clear outta left field. Yes I know you were joking, but it was a post about B.A. and it was the 1st remark on that thread involving Bruce. Just sayin'.
Oh yeah, I'm quick to pull out the fact that there are idiots on this board who went as far as blaming Arians for DEFENSIVE and special teams breakdowns last year. But that was just a joke...clearly sarcastic, clearly tongue-in-cheek, clearly mocking past (and present, as it stands) idiocy regarding the guy. There's a HUGE difference between making a stupid joke about retards posting stupid shit and people posting obsessive-compulsively (and totally seriously) about an OC that isn't even here anymore.
I promise, I won't make any more jokes or references to him, or references about the dumb people who blasted him for everything if you guys would just STOP POSTING ABOUT BRUCE ARIANS!
Fire Goodell
Doesn't really matter what manner you posted about him in, you STILL posted about him. I STILL fail to see why you're so upset about us discussing Bruce Arians. I'm just going to exit the conversation and discussion altogether. Not worth it.
Here's a better idea ... why don't you STOP READING THREADS ABOUT BRUCE ARIANS!
Seriously, Suit, there is no rule here that says you have to read every thread. For better or worse, there's still a good number of posters who like to talk about Arians. Should they stop talking about him because YOU and a few others are tired of hearing it? How about you just don't read it? It's not like Arians retired and moved on with his life. He's still a coach in the NFL and is worthy of discussion.
I know Suit won't see this because he has me on ignore, but I had to say it anyway.
Gonna throw the penalty flag here.
This is the Around the NFL forum. If members want to discuss Bruce Arians in this forum, they are free to do so as much as they want, and for as long as they want. As Wallace said, nobody is forcing anyone to read the threads, and if you post in here, you are doing so of your own volition. It is no one else's fault.
You may continue.
How about at least elevating the conversation at least past the semi-literate state of the ubiquitous "Arians is a moron" postings? What is gained by the same ten people chiming in on every Arians thread and inferring that A) Arians is a fool B) THEY know more about running an offense then he does C) and heaping tons of scorn and ridicule on an obvious undeserving scapegoat?
We get it already. You hate Bruce Arians, and your hatred prohibits you from forming clear, rational or logical arguments. This is akin to the odd poster who ALWAYS has to post in any NASCAR thread (not on this board so much) about how stupid NASCAR is. After the 400th time, we realize that poster so-and-so hates NASCAR.
Fire Goodell
I don't know. I feel that I have the right to call Arians' whatever I wish, and I state my thoughts reasoning. I was one of the first, along with Wallace, to congratulate him on his teams victory. I don't understand why Suit is getting so bent out of shape other than the fact that he really liked Bruce.
We all know that Cowher has had his fair share of threads regarding him coaching again in the NFL, and this falls in that same category. No reason we shouldn't be allowed to discuss these things, and XT further confirmed that. I think those who find a discussion like this to be too sensitive should just ignore it altogether.
The problem is that you just want to silence anyone who doesn't agree with you. It burns you up when people don't see things exactly the way you do. If you can't reason with them, you resort to intimidation and verbal assaults. If all else fails, you put them on ignore.
No matter what you think about Arians, ultimately, Rooney agreed with the "stupid" "moronic" Arians Haters who wanted him gone.
That's my final word. Back on topic ...
I believe the Colts are taking on the Jets this weekend. It'll be interesting if Arians' manages to lose to that train-wreck of a team, considering what WE did to them. I find that teams who are down and out get REAL pissed and put up a fight bigger than usual, and the Jets could actually pull it off. The Raiders we'e useless the first two games, and beat us at their house.
Also, on the title topic: Not worried about Matthews? How many sacks did Mr. Matthews get? Luck threw the ball 55 times (typical Arians' gameplan), surely Luck bit the dust at least a few times?
"Ban"? What are you talking about? Just further proof that you're reading things that have nothing to do with the discussion.
And um, I didn't CREATE the discussion. Bayz did. Oh, wait. You're saying I shouldn't post MY opinion, and I'm at fault for voicing (typing) what I think. Brilliant logic. Especially on a FORUM where THREAD COUNT and POST COUNT for the forum helps create more traffic, which in turn makes the forum more active, which in turn, makes more money for our forum owners so they can run it free of cost, or even make a few dollars off it. Yep, BRILLIANT.
[/QUOTE](EDIT: Speaking of brilliant - it seems I can't even use the quote tags correctly)
Now, let's talk about being stupid and ignorant. Since I dislike the word "stupid" let's just call it willful ignorance on your part. Because this one is a beautiful example. I never said I don't want a discussion concerning Arians. I never said I don't want to discuss his efficency, or his ability to be an OC, or his ability to coach. I SAID, that I'm sick and tired of the Arians/Haley debate. Let me remind of the thread title: "Now can we put away Arians vs. Haley?"by responding you create a discussion which you profess you don't want to have. Whatever
Remember that? Just incase you need more help with reading comprehension (not that you're capable, but because you're choosing to remain willfully ignorant as some sort of infatuation with me), the object of the sentence is two parts. Arains and Haley. The "vs" in the sentence is connecting "Arians" and "Haley" which means that I was asking for the DISCUSSION on the comparison between Arians and Haley as offensive Coordinators for the Pittsburgh Steelers to be ended.
Now, please, I eagerly await your examples showing where I furthered the discussion of Arians VERSES Haley IN THIS THREAD.
Seriously, your infatuation with me is getting a little embarrassing. Let it go. If you have a problem with me, PM me and we'll take care of it there like gentlemen. But your insistence that everyone else express opinions freely while I keep silent so that I don't "Continue a discussion" is laughable at best. At worst, it's a hack argumentation trick to get those with whom you disagree to keep silent.
You know how much some of that bugs the hell out of me, too. But it is still within their rights to post it. I cannot and will not tell anyone what they can and cannot post provided it does not violate the COC. So again, if it bothers you that much, then you have the option of not reading/responding to these posts/threads.
BTW - I missed that post from NCSteeler in your quote, Preacher. The same things I posted to Suit apply to you as well. NO ONE is prohibited from posting in this thread or on this topic, and you do not have to read it if you don't like it. And you certainly CANNOT personally attack anyone for doing so. That kind of name-calling will NOT...repeat NOT...be tolerated again from ANYONE. I trust that we will not have this discussion again.
Hey, don't blame me for this discussion. That honor goes to Psycho Ward.
And let's be honest here. There is a difference between an INFORMED opinion, which usually produces a reasonable argument (i.e. Arians is a good coordinator, and not the befuddled buffoon people make him out out be) and an UNinformed opinion, which produces statements like "Arians is a retarded idiot and responsible for all of the Steelers offensive woes", or, you know, stuff like that. A good example is when people were blaming Arians for the starting personnel on the offense last year. that's Tomlin's call, not Arians, but that didn't stop people from carrying on...
Opinions based on hatred and bias are rarely reasonable, and not all opinions are created equally. And, let's face it, people HATE being contradicted, and it's even worse when they are already arguing from emotion. Therefore, when I make a statement that Arians isn't that bad and the situation is complicated, people who seek simple monolithic solutions and have already decided to just dump all the blame in one, easy convenient place are naturally going to take umbrage. I mean, look at how this has been twisted over the years...simply by sticking with the FACT that Arians is not that bad, I've become labeled as an "Arians lover". Ridiculous. Arians was a good coordinator...I was worried about who might replace him. Haley seems to be doing fine. And THIS is why I cannot understand why we have to keep hearing the incessant whining about Arians. That era is over...
Fire Goodell
Because your opinion is RIGHT, and everyone else's is WRONG, right? No. I'm just going to drop this discussion and put you on ignore for the better of my experience. All you're doing is pointing out single posts, and categorizing everyone else as a smaller man than you because of it. You're not Jesus, we CAN have our opinions.
If YOU can jokingly bring Arians' up in a thread that has NOTHING to do with it, I don't see why we can't tease him a little either.
Carry on. I'm not going to derail this anymore.
@PolamaluBeast Is that one sack by Matthews, or in total? Thanks. I'm on a phone, can't view stats.