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Thread: It finally happened

  1. #91
    Senior Member Array title="steelreserve has a reputation beyond repute"> steelreserve's Avatar

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    Re: It finally happened

    Quote Originally Posted by GodfatherofSoul View Post
    Rough calculation w/o all the hard data. I heard there are ~120 refs, each getting $33,000 a game for 17 weeks; assuming playoff bonus salaries work out to about the same as the bye weeks where some refs aren't working, that's about $70 million a year in ref salaries.

    The refs are asking for additional benefits that work out to $30 million more a year and the owners are willing to shell out an extra $20 million. Refs make ~$500K a season not counting post-season games and the bye. Ownership was trying to put in place performance-based incentives which didn't seem very practical, but can't say I have much sympathy for the zebras. They were getting a pension for a part-time job as well. I'd say the refs are the ones who need to sacrifice that extra $10 million, lose the incentive ideas, and make a deal.
    Where did you hear that? Everything I've read says the average ref's salary is $150K-$160K a year. With 16 crews of 6 officials each, that's 96 refs, so call it 100 to allow for whatever. So the total ref salaries would be more like $15M.

    Not that that's a bad deal at all for them. $150K to work 4-6 months out of the year is a damn sight better than most people will ever see, with or without insurance and pensions.
    See you Space Cowboy ...

  2. #92
    Well there you have it... Array title="NCSteeler has a reputation beyond repute"> NCSteeler's Avatar

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    Re: It finally happened

    Quote Originally Posted by suitanim View Post
    What I read and heard was this: The bottom line is about 3 million a season the NFL would have to invest to fund these pensions. They'll conceded everything else, but they want pensions, not 401k's. I've heard the 30 million number, but that doesn't make sense, because pension funds are annuities and don't have to be fully funded up front, since these are interest bearing products that take as long as 20-30 years to mature.
    Most companies are doing their best to get out of the pension business, because it puts the long term risk on the employer. It's only 3 mil a year to fund it, but they have too make adjustment for market losses( and of course lower fo r gains) and by law they have to have it fully funded until the last participant is done drawing. Pension systems can be a real drag on the bottom line especially in a bad economy
    Merry Christmas

  3. #93
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    Re: It finally happened

    Quote Originally Posted by steelreserve View Post
    Where did you hear that? Everything I've read says the average ref's salary is $150K-$160K a year. With 16 crews of 6 officials each, that's 96 refs, so call it 100 to allow for whatever. So the total ref salaries would be more like $15M.

    Not that that's a bad deal at all for them. $150K to work 4-6 months out of the year is a damn sight better than most people will ever see, with or without insurance and pensions.
    I read that on another post here

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    Senior Member Array title="vader29 has a reputation beyond repute"> vader29's Avatar

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    Re: It finally happened


    Fake Roger Goodell on the replacement refs from the WDVE morning show:

    http://downloads.iheartradio.com/med...0158_27225.mp3

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    Re: It finally happened

    Quote Originally Posted by NCSteeler View Post
    Most companies are doing their best to get out of the pension business, because it puts the long term risk on the employer. It's only 3 mil a year to fund it, but they have too make adjustment for market losses( and of course lower fo r gains) and by law they have to have it fully funded until the last participant is done drawing. Pension systems can be a real drag on the bottom line especially in a bad economy
    Yeah, you'd think everyone learned their lesson from so many big companies (looking your way, automakers), cities and other public agencies like school districts going bankrupt because of pensions. It's a limitless liability that can ruin your entire business. The referees are probably too small a group to drag the NFL down, but in principle the idea just doesn't work very well anymore. Which is why pensions are a thing of the past.
    See you Space Cowboy ...

  6. #96
    NFL's Dirtiest Player Array title="86WARD has a reputation beyond repute"> 86WARD's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by vader29 View Post
    From Adam Schefter:

    As @mortreport is reporting, an agreement between NFL and NFLRA is at hand and both sides will work to have officials working this weekend.

    http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/84...y-week-sources

    That's not necessarily true. The logistics could hold the refs out another week. By the rules of the NFLRA, in order to ratify a new contract, all 121 officials need to be there in person. No proxy, no phone. They all have to meet at the same location to approve that new deal.

    They'd have to all fly to a neutral location, go over the deal and approve it and then get on another plane to get to their destination game cities.

    If they got a deal done today, it's not a lay up that there would be real officials this weekend. Although nowadays, it's nothing to jump on a plane and be ready to go...

    Btw - Every ref would also need to be fitted for a new uniform...lol. That could eat up some time. Week 5 sounds like it could, logistically, be more realistic.

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    Re: It finally happened

    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    That's not necessarily true. The logistics could hold the refs out another week. By the rules of the NFLRA, in order to ratify a new contract, all 121 officials need to be there in person. No proxy, no phone. They all have to meet at the same location to approve that new deal.

    They'd have to all fly to a neutral location, go over the deal and approve it and then get on another plane to get to their destination game cities.

    If they got a deal done today, it's not a lay up that there would be real officials this weekend. Although nowadays, it's nothing to jump on a plane and be ready to go...

    Btw - Every ref would also need to be fitted for a new uniform...lol. That could eat up some time. Week 5 sounds like it could, logistically, be more realistic.
    Plus there is a game Thursday night. No way to get them prepped for that.

  8. #98
    member since day 1 Array title="7SteelGal43 is a name known to all"> 7SteelGal43's Avatar

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    Re: It finally happened

    Quote Originally Posted by zulater View Post




    Steel, if this is Ike Taylor and Wes Welker in the pic, how do you feel ? Are you still stoic about the refs not being to blame ?
    Stay classy, leftnutz

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    Re: It finally happened

    Ike Taylor would have dropped it.
    All Defense!

  10. #100
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    Re: It finally happened

    Quote Originally Posted by ALLD View Post
    Ike Taylor would have dropped it.


    Ok all the talk about maybe the refs will be back thrusday now. has anyone noticed after the Packers and the cheats start nelly aching about it the league goes into over drive with talks with the refs or do you think it is Vegas kicking the NFL in the ass after monday nights debacle?


    For those i love i will sacrifice.

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  11. #101
    Senior Member Array title="zulater has a reputation beyond repute"> zulater's Avatar

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    Re: It finally happened

    http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/l...ks-game-092612
    A Las Vegas casino took an unusual step Wednesday and offered refunds to gamblers who lost money when the Seattle Seahawks beat the Green Bay Packers on a controversial touchdown at the end of Monday night's game.

    Derek Stevens, owner The D Las Vegas, seized on the attention being paid to the much-derided decision by replacement officials handling the NFL game and became the only casino in Las Vegas to offer refunds.

    ''I know exactly how it would feel if I was laying the number and I saw what happened,'' Stevens said. He declared himself ''disgusted'' with the ruling and said he just couldn't accept the outcome.

    The Seahawks won 14-12 after a Packers defender and Seahawks receiver fought for the ball on a final ''Hail Mary'' pass play. Officials missed an offensive pass interference call and then decided there had been simultaneous catch by the two players. Under NFL rules, that gave Seattle the touchdown and the win.

    Nevada gambling regulators said Stevens could make refunds if he wanted.

    Another Las Vegas sports book operator worried the move set a bad precedent.

    ''Whenever there are bad calls we're going to start refunding? Based on what?'' said Jay Kornegay, race and sports book director at The LVH casino. ''We're supposed to pay out winning wagers based on official final scores by the league, in this case the NFL.''

    Some offshore online betting outlets have also issued refunds.

    Stevens, who has been renovating and rebranding the high-rise downtown casino formerly called the Fitzgerald, said D Las Vegas will refund straight and money-line bets made on the Packers until Sunday — but only on wagers made at his sports book.
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

  12. #102
    Senior Member Array title="steelreserve has a reputation beyond repute"> steelreserve's Avatar

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    Re: It finally happened

    Quote Originally Posted by 7SteelGal43 View Post
    Steel, if this is Ike Taylor and Wes Welker in the pic, how do you feel ? Are you still stoic about the refs not being to blame ?
    I've said that several times when we've lost on the last play, or when a bad call has seemed to influence the outcome. You lose at the last second, people always want to say it's all the fault of the last play or the last drive. But a lot of those games, the reality was that we played like shit and scored 10 points. One game against Flacco and the Ravens comes to mind; another where we missed a FG at the very end, a lot of similar situations.

    You're right though, the one exception is if it was Wes Welker, because I believe the Patriots should get no calls in their favor ever, and a personal foul on every play.
    See you Space Cowboy ...

  13. #103
    Klaatu barada nikto Array title="suitanim has a brilliant future"> suitanim's Avatar

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    Re: It finally happened

    Maybe Goodell does have a soul and a conscience after all?
    Fire Goodell

  14. #104
    Well there you have it... Array title="NCSteeler has a reputation beyond repute"> NCSteeler's Avatar

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    Re: It finally happened

    Seems to me from early report the league ponied up on pay and got everything else they wanted. I felt like the Refs had all the power, so apparently Gotohell is a decent negotiator.
    Merry Christmas

  15. #105
    Klaatu barada nikto Array title="suitanim has a brilliant future"> suitanim's Avatar

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    Re: It finally happened

    Quote Originally Posted by NCSteeler View Post
    Seems to me from early report the league ponied up on pay and got everything else they wanted. I felt like the Refs had all the power, so apparently Gotohell is a decent negotiator.
    They caved on pensions, and will honor them for another 5 years, THEN switch to 401k's. Knowing what they know now, the refs could just turn around and make the same demands all over again in 5 years.
    Fire Goodell

  16. #106
    member since day 1 Array title="7SteelGal43 is a name known to all"> 7SteelGal43's Avatar

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    Re: It finally happened

    Quote Originally Posted by steelreserve View Post
    I've said that several times when we've lost on the last play, or when a bad call has seemed to influence the outcome. You lose at the last second, people always want to say it's all the fault of the last play or the last drive. But a lot of those games, the reality was that we played like shit and scored 10 points. One game against Flacco and the Ravens comes to mind; another where we missed a FG at the very end, a lot of similar situations.

    You're right though, the one exception is if it was Wes Welker, because I believe the Patriots should get no calls in their favor ever, and a personal foul on every play.

    And as I've stated, I too never like the "refs cost us the game" argument. But in this instance, I mean it was such a blantantly wrong call and even after reviewing the play on video, it's still a wrong call. Stevie Wonder could see it was an INT.
    Stay classy, leftnutz

  17. #107
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    Re: It finally happened

    Quote Originally Posted by ALLD View Post
    Ike Taylor would have dropped it.
    BWAHAHAHA.................hey..wait !
    Stay classy, leftnutz

  18. #108
    1 at a time Array title="Count Steeler has a reputation beyond repute"> Count Steeler's Avatar

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    Re: It finally happened

    The only good that came out of the phantom reception is that it motivated the NFL to settle with the real officials. Now we can all cheer and be glad that the real refs are back. Of course only until a real game starts and we "throw these bums out"

  19. #109
    Well there you have it... Array title="NCSteeler has a reputation beyond repute"> NCSteeler's Avatar

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    Re: It finally happened

    Quote Originally Posted by suitanim View Post
    They caved on pensions, and will honor them for another 5 years, THEN switch to 401k's. Knowing what they know now, the refs could just turn around and make the same demands all over again in 5 years.
    But the refs also caved on having a trained pool of replacement refs that are not covered under the CBA or part of the union. Which in five years will make it much easier to replace them, sounds short sited on the refs part.
    Merry Christmas

  20. #110
    Senior Member Array title="GodfatherofSoul is a jewel in the rough"> GodfatherofSoul's Avatar

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    Re: It finally happened

    Quote Originally Posted by NCSteeler View Post
    But the refs also caved on having a trained pool of replacement refs that are not covered under the CBA or part of the union. Which in five years will make it much easier to replace them, sounds short sited on the refs part.
    It that how it works? I figured they were like a practice squad without full benefits. When they go full time, they get all benefits.

  21. #111
    Well there you have it... Array title="NCSteeler has a reputation beyond repute"> NCSteeler's Avatar

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    Re: It finally happened

    Quote Originally Posted by GodfatherofSoul View Post
    It that how it works? I figured they were like a practice squad without full benefits. When they go full time, they get all benefits.
    They are "practice squad" until evaluated as good enough, but it gives the NFL access to refs with direct NFL experience if they need to hold the union out next contract.. Maybe I'm just seeing the Devil in the details but this NFL commish cannot be trusted

    the compromise will create a new developmental program.

    The developmental officials will work with the existing crews and rise through the ranks as they are graded appropriately. Until they are deemed ready, the developmental refs will not be NFLRA members and cannot work games. It was the NFL's wish that a larger pool of officials be ready to sub in for refs that are either sick or injured, and that there be a program by which officials whose performance is considered sub-par would be "benched."
    Merry Christmas

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