Timmons not happy with $21,000 fine

[Texasteel]

Here's a better look at it between the 48-50 second mark. He did lead with his helmet

Thanks bud, this is a much better look. The QB gave all the look of running the ball, and flicked the ball out at the last second. Sanches's whole body lowered, not just his head. IMO, the answer to the problem is,,,,,,,,,,,,,, don't run with the ball Mr. QB. I thought the hit should not have drawn a flag or a fine.

[suitanim]

Sanchez should be fined for hitting Timmons head first.

I'm only partially joking...

[NCSteeler]

On a side note, the only good news is......it seems $21,000 is the new norm for first time offenders and it has been very equal and fair. Other than that I expected it to be fined when I saw it during the game. Only real surprise is that the Tv crew didn't break out footage of James destroying McCoy in the similar fashion.

[86WARD]

He clearly lowered his helmet. Keep his head up and maybe it's not a fine. But LT clearly lowered it.

[Butch]

To those who agree with the fine I have a question. Have you watched a game and worried about how the defense misses tackles? If he pulls up and misses the tackle and sanchez goes for a big gain or even a touchdown do you not blame Timmons for missing a tackle when he had a chance? Don't you yell and scream at how the hell he missed the easy tackle???

As for the question about Ben being hit like that, if it goes against us it should also go for us. My problem with the enforcement of the rules is that it doesn't go both ways, at least last year with the full time refs. Hits on Hines, Ben and Heath have gone unflagged and unfined. While there may be some excuse as to missing the flag there is no reason to miss the fine.

[suitanim]

It just seems to me that if the argument is that we have to stop helmet to helmet contact, there should be a fine for ANY player, offensive or defensive, who lowers his helmet.

Think about it. If defenders are supposed to be able to practice exquisite control of their body, why shouldn't the offensive player be held to the same high standard? How many times have we seen two players collide and it's the DEFENSIVE player who gets concussed?

[bayz101]

Let's see.

Was the ball tucked like a RB? Nope.
Was his head down like a RB? Nope.
Was he looking down the field to throw the ball? Yep.
Was he cocking and recocking his arm? Yep.

Conclusion: He wasn't a runner. Moving TOWARDS the LoS doesn't make you a runner. And, by the way the entire defense is reacting, NONE of them thought he had turned into a runner. This is an argument you're not going to win, because the rules are clear, and he broke them - rules that the NFLPA approves of.

Now, once again, will someone please explain to me how whining about a ref's call and a subsequent fine that is CLEARLY spelled out in the rulebook means we're such a better fanbase than the Seahawks or Cardinals or Browns or Ravens or Bengals when their fans whine about ref's calls and/or subsequent fines? I mean, the justifications are hilarious.

Fine. New rule: If a QB is five-foot away from you and unblocked, left completely subject to a hit, stand back. Give him time to make his throw, and huddle up for the next play. Hitting is NOT allowed, nor is it tolerated. Sanchez CAN be a running quarterback, and with him that close to the line of scrimmage, waiting to see if he decides to run can prove costly.

If Timmons would have altered his tackle, Sanchez could easily juke and run for the pylons.

Give it a couple years and all hits will be illegal, especially with the support of a lot of people I just can't seem to wrap my mind around.

[fansince'76]

I guess Timmons should have let Sanchez do this:

[bayz101]

He was running like a freight train towards the line of scrimmage, and it wasn't for momentum either. The prick threw it away and probably shit himself to top it off. Same shit McCoy did last year. Go ahead. Defend the rules. I won't.

[X-Terminator]

He was running like a freight train towards the line of scrimmage, and it wasn't for momentum either. The prick threw it away and probably shit himself to top it off. Same shit McCoy did last year. Go ahead. Defend the rules. I won't.

I don't understand how any Steeler fan who loves tough, physical football can possibly defend this, or fail to see the big picture. The game is being ruined, and to many fans, they're just fine with it. It's sad. Again, the only way you can ever eliminate helmet-to-helmet contact is to get rid of hitting and tackling altogether, because even making a textbook tackle can get you fined if you make contact with the helmet.

[Craic]

You know I respect the hell out of you, Preach, but if you're truly happy with the ongoing pussification of the league thanks to Goodell's rules (and they ARE his rules - he's the Commissioner, therefore he sets the tone), then you can have it. The rest of us prefer the way things always been, when hits like that wouldn't even have gotten a 2nd look, much less a fine. So therefore, we are going to speak up when we see complete horseshit like this. Defensive players are being handcuffed, not allowed to hit anyone, and apparently that's A-OK with you. This is football, not a square dance. Punish the cheap shots, and leave the rest of the damn game alone.

I was okay with it twenty years ago, ten years ago, even five years ago. But in the face of the evidence of brain damage, the utter devastation of lives after a playing career, and the fact that the game HAS become so much faster and harder hitting, something has to change. We always think that the game of our childhood was static and never changing, but in truth, football has ALWAYS evolved, and done so towards less physicality. It's a trajectory that started in the early 1900s when they made illegal what was, for all intents and purposes, a rugby ruck - since people were literally dying trying to jump over it and tackle the RB.

I like a hard hit just as much as the next guy. I love it when players get laid out by good, hard, clean hits. But across the spectrum of professional sports over the last twenty years, every sport has changed because of the physical ability of the players. I'm sorry, but I just don't want to see another Mike Webster, or Justin Stzelczyk, or Junior Seau, or etc. etc. Personally, I think there's a lot more the league could and should do in other areas - and that part of what is driving this angle is the fear of losing offensive weapons which equals less scoring and less excitement, and I think that's a bunch of crap. But even with that said, it doesn't negate the fact that Timmons knows better, nor that he, having a line on Sanchez, made the choice to hit high, rather than at say, waist or lower chest level.

I also don't accept the "way things always been" because it hasn't, not by a long shot. I went back and watched a buttload of tackles by Jack Lambert. Not once did I see him go for the head, and only once did I see him tackle, and ride up into the head. The rest of his tackles, were wrapping and taking people to the ground, or hitting in the chest, side, etc. That was how the game USED to be played, until players decided that they wanted to get on ESPN for big hits. So I don't buy the "always been this way" argument for a second, because the old videos, IMO, prove otherwise.

[tube517]

You know I respect the hell out of you, Preach, but if you're truly happy with the ongoing pussification of the league thanks to Goodell's rules (and they ARE his rules - he's the Commissioner, therefore he sets the tone), then you can have it. The rest of us prefer the way things always been, when hits like that wouldn't even have gotten a 2nd look, much less a fine. So therefore, we are going to speak up when we see complete horseshit like this. Defensive players are being handcuffed, not allowed to hit anyone, and apparently that's A-OK with you. This is football, not a square dance. Punish the cheap shots, and leave the rest of the damn game alone.

[fansince'76]

I'm sorry, but I just don't want to see another Mike Webster, or Justin Stzelczyk, or Junior Seau, or etc. etc.

IMO, Seau was depressed because the constant adulation had subsided once he retired more than anything else.

Junior Seau autopsy finds no illicit drugs, no brain damage

There's a reason Seau hung around as long as he did, and there was more to it than simply chasing a ring. Personally, I'm getting a little tired of every personal problem an ex-player has in retirement being automatically blamed on the NFL and linked to CTE.

[X-Terminator]

I was okay with it twenty years ago, ten years ago, even five years ago. But in the face of the evidence of brain damage, the utter devastation of lives after a playing career, and the fact that the game HAS become so much faster and harder hitting, something has to change. We always think that the game of our childhood was static and never changing, but in truth, football has ALWAYS evolved, and done so towards less physicality. It's a trajectory that started in the early 1900s when they made illegal what was, for all intents and purposes, a rugby ruck - since people were literally dying trying to jump over it and tackle the RB.

I like a hard hit just as much as the next guy. I love it when players get laid out by good, hard, clean hits. But across the spectrum of professional sports over the last twenty years, every sport has changed because of the physical ability of the players. I'm sorry, but I just don't want to see another Mike Webster, or Justin Stzelczyk, or Junior Seau, or etc. etc. Personally, I think there's a lot more the league could and should do in other areas - and that part of what is driving this angle is the fear of losing offensive weapons which equals less scoring and less excitement, and I think that's a bunch of crap. But even with that said, it doesn't negate the fact that Timmons knows better, nor that he, having a line on Sanchez, made the choice to hit high, rather than at say, waist or lower chest level.

I also don't accept the "way things always been" because it hasn't, not by a long shot. I went back and watched a buttload of tackles by Jack Lambert. Not once did I see him go for the head, and only once did I see him tackle, and ride up into the head. The rest of his tackles, were wrapping and taking people to the ground, or hitting in the chest, side, etc. That was how the game USED to be played, until players decided that they wanted to get on ESPN for big hits. So I don't buy the "always been this way" argument for a second, because the old videos, IMO, prove otherwise.

But yet, players got concussions even back then when there were all of these "wrap-up" tackles. Which only proves my point even more. You are NOT going to get rid of head contact or concussions unless you get rid of all physical contact. Period.

And Timmons WAS going for the chest! How is it his fault Sanchez threw it at the last second and then dropped his head into the path of Timmons' helmet? That's the part that seems to escape everyone who is defending these rules and this fine.

[steelreserve]

I also fail once again to understand why people complain about Goodell when the NFLPA has to approve all rule changes. So if the league, AND the players as an association are in favor of the rule, how, exactly, does that make it Goodell's fault?

Fine, Goodell and the NFLPA are both stupid as fuck. Happy now?

[GodfatherofSoul]

IMO, Seau was depressed because the constant adulation had subsided once he retired more than anything else.

Junior Seau autopsy finds no illicit drugs, no brain damage

There's a reason Seau hung around as long as he did, and there was more to it than simply chasing a ring. Personally, I'm getting a little tired of every personal problem an ex-player has in retirement being automatically blamed on the NFL and linked to CTE.

Total speculation on my part, but I think it's roids doing this damage. A friend of mine in college was a clean lifter (he never got huge) and he talked about all the other guys roiding and all of their mental problems from it. I remember asking him about it and getting this "WTF are you an idiot?" look when I asked if the bigger guys were actually using.

[Edman]

That was the Colt McCoy hit from last year.

How about putting some personal responsibility on Mark Sanchez for being an idiot? This would've been fine if Sanchez was in the process of sliding and then Timmons ran into him, but Sanchez deliberately made himself a target by still making himself a passer and running into Timmons' pursuit.

[bayz101]

It's a risky job, and the players KNOW that. A long career full of hard hits and injuries can lead to rough life outside of football, and players still play. It's something you can accept when you're making millions a year.

Goodell's fines aren't the answer to this problem. Players WILL hit hard, and they will HIT the helmet. It's an unavoidable thing for a good tackler like Timmons.

If you alter your straight-forward trajectory, you'll probably end us missing the target. Timmons didn't change his path, and he gave Sanchez a good possibly changed the outcome of the game.

I hope players continue to make those hits. Sure, bad things can come of them. Concussions, broken bones or even worse a wheelchair and limited to no use of half your body.

That's the risks these players take and understand when they ink a contract. Know what else should be in a contract? A little line that says: The NFL is not liable for any injuries caused by your decision to play football. You cannot sue us.

I think that would put an end to a lot of this fine bullshit.

[steeldevil]

It's a risky job, and the players KNOW that. A long career full of hard hits and injuries can lead to rough life outside of football, and players still play. It's something you can accept when you're making millions a year.

Goodell's fines aren't the answer to this problem. Players WILL hit hard, and they will HIT the helmet. It's an unavoidable thing for a good tackler like Timmons.

If you alter your straight-forward trajectory, you'll probably end us missing the target. Timmons didn't change his path, and he gave Sanchez a good possibly changed the outcome of the game.

I hope players continue to make those hits. Sure, bad things can come of them. Concussions, broken bones or even worse a wheelchair and limited to no use of half your body.

That's the risks these players take and understand when they ink a contract. Know what else should be in a contract? A little line that says: The NFL is not liable for any injuries caused by your decision to play football. You cannot sue us.

I think that would put an end to a lot of this fine bullshit.

That sounds good and all, but the NFLPA would be all over that. They would tell all rookies to not sign their contracts. No players = no games = no money for Goodell and the NFL. The NFL would cave on that one real quick.

[Count Steeler]

What blows my mind is that hits on the running backs and lineman are still deemed OK. Hypocrisy at its finest. Only QBs and WRs are to be protected? Player safety my ass! ALL helmet to helmet is not banned, nor penalized. A RB going through the line can get hammered 5 ways to Tuesday, but that is all legit.

And even with every play being video taped and reviewed, how can some plays be deemed OK and other ones deemed dangerous? I think there should be an explanation on the Ward hit, especially, against the Ravens last year. No way, with the fines as they are, should Lewis not have been fined.

If this is the new NFL, and every play is reviewed, there is NO excuse for some plays getting fined and some plays not getting fined.

[bayz101]

What blows my mind is that hits on the running backs and lineman are still deemed OK. Hypocrisy at its finest. Only QBs and WRs are to be protected? Player safety my ass! ALL helmet to helmet is not banned, nor penalized. A RB going through the line can get hammered 5 ways to Tuesday, but that is all legit.

And even with every play being video taped and reviewed, how can some plays be deemed OK and other ones deemed dangerous? I think there should be an explanation on the Ward hit, especially, against the Ravens last year. No way, with the fines as they are, should Lewis not have been fined.

If this is the new NFL, and every play is reviewed, there is NO excuse for some plays getting fined and some plays not getting fined.

And with our line, Running Back's rarely make it past the line of scrimmage. So by the NFL logic, they're not considered runners? Running Back's not considered runners.

[bayz101]

That sounds good and all, but the NFLPA would be all over that. They would tell all rookies to not sign their contracts. No players = no games = no money for Goodell and the NFL. The NFL would cave on that one real quick.

Of course they would. The NFLPA is the biggest joke of them all!

[Craic]

IMO, Seau was depressed because the constant adulation had subsided once he retired more than anything else.

Junior Seau autopsy finds no illicit drugs, no brain damage

There's a reason Seau hung around as long as he did, and there was more to it than simply chasing a ring. Personally, I'm getting a little tired of every personal problem an ex-player has in retirement being automatically blamed on the NFL and linked to CTE.

The autopsy really doesn't mean anything here, as it is only a preliminary look for COD, not an in depth study of CTE. The CTE study has yet to be published, and that will be a much more conclusive piece of evidence. In truth, the brain, at his age, even with CTE, would usually not show abnormality that a normal ME could see in his daily routine. But let's say that it was completely the Ambien and that he had no CTE at all. Fine, we can supplant his name with others, such as Chris Henry, for which the Brain Injury Research center at West Virginia University studied and released a report confirming it. I know from my own research (I had to counsel a couple where one was dealing with CTE, specifically, frontal lobe issues) that it can completely change a person's response to stimuli.

So in short, whether Seau was or was not affected by it, my larger argument still stands.

But yet, players got concussions even back then when there were all of these "wrap-up" tackles. Which only proves my point even more. You are NOT going to get rid of head contact or concussions unless you get rid of all physical contact. Period.

And Timmons WAS going for the chest! How is it his fault Sanchez threw it at the last second and then dropped his head into the path of Timmons' helmet? That's the part that seems to escape everyone who is defending these rules and this fine.

A couple issues here. First, don't forget that other types of shots to the head were legal back then as well, which caused concussions, as did poorer helmets. Turkey Jones and Terry Bradshaw, Lynn Swann against the Raiders, none of those kinds of hits are legal today either, so I don't think that's a fair comparison. Now, I agree you're not going to get rid of all head contact. Heck, the league even agrees with that, which is why, IMO, they limit it to "defenseless players."

As far as Sanchez goes, watch how far down he actually drops. If Timmons was aiming for his chest, then he would have hit him center mass, not straight on the head with little to nothing else. Again, I have a hard time believing that a tackler is completely unable to control himself, when players in other sports that are moving faster (Hockey) are able to control and adjust their movements - or when players that are going the same speed and tackling, are able to control their hits (Rugby Union). Heck, they're just as if not more brutal at times, but they stay below the shoulders, so it's absolutely possible.

Fine, Goodell and the NFLPA are both stupid as fuck. Happy now?

Nope, I'll be happy when we stop sounding like the freaking Cryhawk fans whining because the league took something from us.

[BnG_Hevn]

If Timmons disagrees then he needs to fight it.

[Craic]

It's a risky job, and the players KNOW that. A long career full of hard hits and injuries can lead to rough life outside of football, and players still play. It's something you can accept when you're making millions a year.

I find it quite troubling how glib we are with other people's life. By the same logic, we also shouldn't work to stop bad mining practices that endanger worker's lives, or bad assembly line practice, because of course, that's the risk when you take a job making $70 an hour for an auto company.

I'm sorry, but the logic doesn't follow. It's a business, and you can dang well guarantee that if the league didn't do something about it, OSHA would have stepped in at some point, and that is the LAST thing any of us want.

Goodell's fines aren't the answer to this problem. Players WILL hit hard, and they will HIT the helmet. It's an unavoidable thing for a good tackler like Timmons.

This is an excuse, period. If players like Lambert and Butkus can break down and hit as hard as they did, so can Timmons.

If you alter your straight-forward trajectory, you'll probably end us missing the target. Timmons didn't change his path, and he gave Sanchez a good possibly changed the outcome of the game.

Nope, it's called being in control of your body. ONce again go watch the oldtimers, they had control, and STILL hit, hard.

I hope players continue to make those hits. Sure, bad things can come of them. Concussions, broken bones or even worse a wheelchair and limited to no use of half your body. That's the risks these players take and understand when they ink a contract

See my previous answer about how glib we are with other people's life.
.

Know what else should be in a contract? A little line that says: The NFL is not liable for any injuries caused by your decision to play football. You cannot sue us.

If that was just the issue, then I'd agree. However, if I'm understanding the lawsuits correctly, it was that the NFL downplayed it, and didn't do enough to protect the workers at the job.

[steelreserve]

Nope, I'll be happy when we stop sounding like the freaking Cryhawk fans whining because the league took something from us.

OK, well if they didn't have such a pussy rule, nobody would be complaining. Until then, expect bitching.

I don't really think it's the same thing as the idiot Seahawks fans at all, by the way. I'd be glad to complain about a helmet-to-helmet fine or a roughing the passer fine against a defender from any team, unless it was a real cheapshot or unless it was the Patriots.

[Shoes]

The rules are not going to change back to the way most of us geezers remember football.....it's that simple. I know if it were Ben I would have wanted a flag/fine too....by the rules of todays football of course.

[zulater]

The rules are not going to change back to the way most of us geezers remember football.....it's that simple. I know if it were Ben I would have wanted a flag/fine too....by the rules of todays football of course.

Exactly.

Look we all would like to turn back the clock and make it the 70's, 80's, 90's again. But we can't. They've got new rules in place, and if you want to stay a fan of the game you either figure out how to accept them or spend a lot of time pissed off. One thing I promise you, these rules wont go away if and when Goodell goes.

And by today's interpretation of the rules a flag and fine were warranted.

By the way Timmons did nothing wrong, he was playing football the way you're supposed to. 19 out of 20 times he can lead like that and the impact wont be helmet to helmet. But this time it was, so got to pay the piper. File it under the category of shit happens, and move on.

[7willBheaven]

You're kidding me, right? They did realize that Timmons led with his shoulder and not his head, on top of Sanchez dipping his head...right? Right?!?!?!?

Bullshit.

Agreed!