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Thread: Attack in Libya (Warning, un-PC like brutal honesty in this thread)

  1. #61
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    Re: Attack in Libya (Warning, un-PC like brutal honesty in this thread)

    Quote Originally Posted by fansince'76 View Post
    Absolutely. Looks like the "protests" have spread to the German embassy in Sudan, and a KFC and Arby's in Tripoli:

    Protests against film spread in Mideast; 1 killed
    All because of just one kooky dudes REALLY bad movie.

    An Arab reporter in Tahrir Square in Cairo was asking the young men protesting if they had seen the movie. Not ONE had...most didn't even know what it was about, they had simply "heard" that the US had made an anti-Muhammad movie. The US. Made it. These are the kinds of dumbasses we're dealing with. And Obama wants us to apologize.
    Fire Goodell

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    Re: Attack in Libya (Warning, un-PC like brutal honesty in this thread)

    Quote Originally Posted by suitanim View Post
    All because of just one kooky dudes REALLY bad movie.

    An Arab reporter in Tahrir Square in Cairo was asking the young men protesting if they had seen the movie. Not ONE had...most didn't even know what it was about, they had simply "heard" that the US had made an anti-Muhammad movie. The US. Made it. These are the kinds of dumbasses we're dealing with. And Obama wants us to apologize.
    And you gotta love the way they're being called "protests," when in actuality, they're riots.

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    Re: Attack in Libya (Warning, un-PC like brutal honesty in this thread)

    Quote Originally Posted by steeldawg View Post
    How so?
    You really don't have to look too hard to find examples of liberals crapping (sometimes literally) all over Christian beliefs.

    Here's just one of the countless examples ...

    Piss Christ

    Piss Christ is a 1987 photograph by the American artist and photographer Andres Serrano. It depicts a small plastic crucifix submerged in a glass of the artist's urine. The piece was a winner of the Southeastern Center for Contemporary Art's "Awards in the Visual Arts" competition, which was sponsored in part by the National Endowment for the Arts, a United States Government agency that offers support and funding for artistic projects.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piss_Christ
    Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't recall Christians rioting or killing anyone over this "award-winning" piece of art. And I also don't recall Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama condemning it.

    And for the heck of it, here's one more example ...

    New Play Has Christ’s Face Dribbling with Feces

    A new play at the Théâtre de la Ville in Paris, on the banks of the Seine near Notre Dame cathedral, features the face of Jesus Christ covered with what appears to be feces.

    The play, “On the Concept of the Face, Regarding the Son of God”, which runs until October 30, is the story of an incontinent man being looked after by his son.

    A copy of a huge portrait of Christ by Renaissance artist Antonello da Messina hangs at the back of the stage and appears to be covered in excrement towards the end of the performance.

    http://fellowshipofminds.wordpress.c...ng-with-feces/

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    Re: Attack in Libya (Warning, un-PC like brutal honesty in this thread)

    Some Libyans have responded with an apologetic protest. I won't pretend to know what percentage of the population they represent (or if the protest was staged, for that matter), but I hope it reaffirms why we Americans believe we should judge people as individuals and by their own actions. I'm no fan of Islam (to be perfectly honest) and it's pretty obvious that Islamic fundamentalism is a brutal savage doctrine, but I still think it's dangerous when you make sweeping generalizations about the population of an entire country, regardless of how messed up their dominant culture might be.

    Make no mistake, the ambassador's murder really pissed me off too.





    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...=feeds-newsxml

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    Re: Attack in Libya (Warning, un-PC like brutal honesty in this thread)

    This picture is the Black Flag of Islam flying over the US embassy in Tunisia


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    Re: Attack in Libya (Warning, un-PC like brutal honesty in this thread)

    I will say one thing to kind of, um....mitigate their dumbassery. In many of these countries, the people are purposefully kept backwards. When Romney was criticized for opining on the radical difference sin prosperity between Israeli's and Palestinian's, what he was REALLY being criticized for was calling attention to the very un-PC notion that Arab states, particularly religious states, are very backwards and primitive. I mean, in Pakistan now, they have arrested (she's free on bail) a very young Christian girl with mental problems for "desecrating the Koran". There's no evidence she did anything at all, but the claim is that she was ripping pages from the Koran. She quite literally faces a death sentence if she's found guilty.

    More to the point, these people are kept dumbed down. They can't even understand the concept of freedom of speech, and it's incomprehensible that a movie could be made in our Country without the government's knowledge and endorsement. that in no way exonerates them, rather it is an indictment on their whole culture. Apologizing to them legitimizes these practices, when they should be condemned, and MOST IMPORTANTLY, every effort to open these societies up and flood them with information should be made. Otherwise this will happen over and over and over again...
    Fire Goodell

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    Re: Attack in Libya (Warning, un-PC like brutal honesty in this thread)

    Quote Originally Posted by Wallace108 View Post
    You really don't have to look too hard to find examples of liberals crapping (sometimes literally) all over Christian beliefs.

    Here's just one of the countless examples ...



    Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't recall Christians rioting or killing anyone over this "award-winning" piece of art. And I also don't recall Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama condemning it.
    I didnt say anything about christians rioting or killing anybody. There are of course incidents where someone mocks something sure but there is certainly not a national double standard against christians, especially in a country where nearly 80% of the population identifies as christian.

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    Re: Attack in Libya (Warning, un-PC like brutal honesty in this thread)

    Quote Originally Posted by The Patriot View Post
    Some Libyans have responded with an apologetic protest. I won't pretend to know what percentage of the population they represent (or if the protest was staged, for that matter), but I hope it reaffirms why we Americans believe we should judge people as individuals and by their own actions. I'm no fan of Islam (to be perfectly honest) and it's pretty obvious that Islamic fundamentalism is a brutal savage doctrine, but I still think it's dangerous when you make sweeping generalizations about the population of an entire country, regardless of how messed up their dominant culture might be.
    Yep, I saw this yesterday. But of course, it's not going to get as much play as a Muslim burning an American flag.



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    Re: Attack in Libya (Warning, un-PC like brutal honesty in this thread)

    Quote Originally Posted by steeldawg View Post
    I didnt say anything about christians rioting or killing anybody. There are of course incidents where someone mocks something sure but there is certainly not a national double standard against christians, especially in a country where nearly 80% of the population identifies as christian.
    There most certainly is a double standard. It's perfectly OK to mock Christianity in America. There are countless examples of "artists" mocking Christianity's beliefs and symbols. But no one dares mock Islam.

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    Re: Attack in Libya (Warning, un-PC like brutal honesty in this thread)

    Quote Originally Posted by Wallace108 View Post
    Yep, I saw this yesterday. But of course, it's not going to get as much play as a Muslim burning an American flag.


    id like to know if he or the other the patriot posted knows what the sign they are holding up says. i so want to beleive in people, not matter ehat their background is, but i kind feel like they are trying to play us. i am sure theere is a certain percentage that are face palming, but there is a greater percentage Rioting. Time to say fuck it move out and when the want foreign aid tell them to go pound sand. Berry has the time to go partay with jayz, but seem not to have time for this crisis
    .


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    Re: Attack in Libya (Warning, un-PC like brutal honesty in this thread)

    Quote Originally Posted by Wallace108 View Post
    There most certainly is a double standard. It's perfectly OK to mock Christianity in America. There are countless examples of "artists" mocking Christianity's beliefs and symbols. But no one dares mock Islam.
    No one dares mock islam??? Then what are they protesting? oh ya a movie mocking islam. Just take a stroll on youtube you'll find plenty of americans and christians mocking islam. The piss christ was protested even us senators al damato and jesse helms came out against the art the artist recieved death threats as well as art musuems where it was displayed and eventually a group of christian protestors in france destroyed the art with a screwdriver and an icepick. they even took it too the supreme court where they tried to force the art musuem not to display it which was not granted.

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    Re: Attack in Libya (Warning, un-PC like brutal honesty in this thread)

    Quote Originally Posted by Devilsdancefloor View Post
    id like to know if he or the other the patriot posted knows what the sign they are holding up says. i so want to beleive in people, not matter ehat their background is, but i kind feel like they are trying to play us. i am sure theere is a certain percentage that are face palming, but there is a greater percentage Rioting. Time to say fuck it move out and when the want foreign aid tell them to go pound sand. Berry has the time to go partay with jayz, but seem not to have time for this crisis
    .
    I support this. There are, however, other people in this thread who are using this incident to advocate MORE interventionalism.

    As for the signs, you can never know if these protests are staged or not. The link to the article shows more signs written in their language. I want to think they're being genuine.

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    Re: Attack in Libya (Warning, un-PC like brutal honesty in this thread)

    Quote Originally Posted by steeldawg View Post
    Atheism is simply a non beleif in dieties and they make up like 4% of the country what exactly are they forcing on people. The problem is with religion part of the religion is spreading the word.
    Can you read? I said there are QUITE A FEW who want to force atheism on people. That is a fact, jack. It doesn't matter how much of the population they make up. No different than the countless number of religious people who want to do the same. Does that mean ALL atheists believe that? Hell no it doesn't. And I don't believe "spreading the word" is some kind of evil thing. Do you not want to spread the word about the virtues of atheism? If that's OK with you, why then is it NOT OK for a religious person to do the same thing, provided they aren't attempting to shove it down their throats?








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    Re: Attack in Libya (Warning, un-PC like brutal honesty in this thread)

    Quote Originally Posted by steeldawg View Post
    I dont like that statement at all, I got the same message you did out of it. I didnt really see it as an apology it seems what they were trying to do is diffuse the situation because of the large protest crowds. This is a terrible situation and who knows what the right answer is, what i do know is we will always be at war because of the plague that is religion.
    I think we've come to the point with the world's religions that they all can peacefully coexist with one notable exception. When was the last time you heard of any combination of Jew's, Christians, Hindu's, or Buddhist's mixing it up in a violent way?

    Since the Irish Catholics and Protestants made their peace any time you see violence involved with a religious situation you can bet the Muslims stand on at least one side of the hostilities, and quite often they're on both sides of it.

    Yeah, religion of peace my ass.

    Anyway you seem to think along Marxist lines, as in all religions should be banned. I don't see that making the world a better place at all, in fact I think it would be much worse. ( I'm an agnostic, not that' it's pertinent)

    No there's only one religion the world needs to get in line.
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

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    Re: Attack in Libya (Warning, un-PC like brutal honesty in this thread)

    Quote Originally Posted by X-Terminator View Post
    Can you read? I said there are QUITE A FEW who want to force atheism on people. That is a fact, jack. It doesn't matter how much of the population they make up. No different than the countless number of religious people who want to do the same. Does that mean ALL atheists believe that? Hell no it doesn't. And I don't believe "spreading the word" is some kind of evil thing. Do you not want to spread the word about the virtues of atheism? If that's OK with you, why then is it NOT OK for a religious person to do the same thing, provided they aren't attempting to shove it down their throats?
    Why are you so angry? All i said was atheism simply means that a person doesnt believe in gods nothing more no virtues or doctrines they live by it simply means they dont dont believe in gods. i was just pointing out that you said the problem was people pushing their religion on others and i just pointed out that was part of the religion.

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    Re: Attack in Libya (Warning, un-PC like brutal honesty in this thread)

    Quote Originally Posted by steeldawg View Post
    Why are you so angry? All i said was atheism simply means that a person doesnt believe in gods nothing more no virtues or doctrines they live by it simply means they dont dont believe in gods. i was just pointing out that you said the problem was people pushing their religion on others and i just pointed out that was part of the religion.
    You also flippantly asked what atheists were forcing on people. Don't leave that part out. That's why you got the answer you did.

    Anyway, I'm backing out of this. Debating religion or lack thereof with people makes my head hurt.








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    Re: Attack in Libya (Warning, un-PC like brutal honesty in this thread)

    Quote Originally Posted by steeldawg View Post
    No one dares mock islam??? Then what are they protesting? oh ya a movie mocking islam. Just take a stroll on youtube you'll find plenty of americans and christians mocking islam.
    Well, you see what happens when someone actually does mock Islam.

    But I'm not talking about some Joe Schmoe with a video camera and a youtube account. I'm talking about the double standard that exists in mainstream media. The way Comedy Central altered a South Park episode so as not to offend Muslims. Or maybe they were afraid of the backlash. But no matter the reason, the show wasn't given the same freedom to mock Islam as it has to mock Christianity. This is the double standard I'm talking about. A group of Americans can gather and burn Bibles, and it will go largely unnoticed. But let the same group gather and burn Korans ... what do you think will happen? Do you think those two book burnings will receive the same media treatement?

    EDIT: For the record, I'm not a Christian. I believe in a God, but I'm not religious and I don't subscribe to any religion. Never have. Probably never will. But I can see the double standard that now exists.

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    Re: Attack in Libya (Warning, un-PC like brutal honesty in this thread)

    Quote Originally Posted by Wallace108 View Post
    Well, you see what happens when someone actually does mock Islam.

    But I'm not talking about some Joe Schmoe with a video camera and a youtube account. I'm talking about the double standard that exists in mainstream media. The way Comedy Central altered a South Park episode so as not to offend Muslims. Or maybe they were afraid of the backlash. But no matter the reason, the show wasn't given the same freedom to mock Islam as it has to mock Christianity. This is the double standard I'm talking about. A group of Americans can gather and burn Bibles, and it will go largely unnoticed. But let the same group gather and burn Korans ... what do you think will happen? Do you think those two book burnings will receive the same media treatement?

    EDIT: For the record, I'm not a Christian. I believe in a God, but I'm not religious and I don't subscribe to any religion. Never have. Probably never will. But I can see the double standard that now exists.
    The show has the freedom to mock who ever they want, they were not restricted by the government. YOur not citing a double standard, if a group burns bibles or korans nothing happens to them here, they can burn whatever they want. If it causes a riot overseas thats not a double standard by our government, we all follow the same laws and freedoms. I dont know whos holy book burning party would get more media covarge that would depend on the reason and and the reaction it caused. Yes things involving islam get more media coverage because it often involves violence and mayhem which makes for great ratings, not because the media wants to protect islam, if they wanted to protect islam they would keep it out of the media.

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    Re: Attack in Libya (Warning, un-PC like brutal honesty in this thread)

    Quote Originally Posted by zulater View Post
    I think we've come to the point with the world's religions that they all can peacefully coexist with one notable exception. When was the last time you heard of any combination of Jew's, Christians, Hindu's, or Buddhist's mixing it up in a violent way?

    Since the Irish Catholics and Protestants made their peace any time you see violence involved with a religious situation you can bet the Muslims stand on at least one side of the hostilities, and quite often they're on both sides of it.

    Yeah, religion of peace my ass.

    Anyway you seem to think along Marxist lines, as in all religions should be banned. I don't see that making the world a better place at all, in fact I think it would be much worse. ( I'm an agnostic, not that' it's pertinent)

    No there's only one religion the world needs to get in line.
    No i do not think all religion should be banned i just think its dangerous when its taught in schools when its mixed with politics and when its involved in law making. Yes
    I believe the world would be a much more peaceful place without religion most of the data shows that areas that are predominetly atheist or non religious are wealthier healthier and better educated than areas that are religious.

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    Re: Attack in Libya (Warning, un-PC like brutal honesty in this thread)

    Quote Originally Posted by steeldawg View Post
    The show has the freedom to mock who ever they want, they were not restricted by the government. YOur not citing a double standard, if a group burns bibles or korans nothing happens to them here, they can burn whatever they want. If it causes a riot overseas thats not a double standard by our government, we all follow the same laws and freedoms. I dont know whos holy book burning party would get more media covarge that would depend on the reason and and the reaction it caused. Yes things involving islam get more media coverage because it often involves violence and mayhem which makes for great ratings, not because the media wants to protect islam, if they wanted to protect islam they would keep it out of the media.
    I'm not talking about government censorship. I'm talking about the double standard in the media where it's acceptable to mock Christian beliefs and symbols but not Islamic beliefs and symbols. When Comedy Central allows South Park to say whatever it wants about Christianity but then censors a show featuring Muhammad, that's a double standard. Find me something in main stream media mocking Islam that is equivalent to this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rIwg...eature=related

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    Re: Attack in Libya (Warning, un-PC like brutal honesty in this thread)

    Quote Originally Posted by steeldawg View Post
    No i do not think all religion should be banned i just think its dangerous when its taught in schools when its mixed with politics and when its involved in law making. Yes
    I believe the world would be a much more peaceful place without religion most of the data shows that areas that are predominetly atheist or non religious are wealthier healthier and better educated than areas that are religious.
    Got a link? You can't trot that sort of shit out there with no backing.

    To my way of thinking this country was founded on Judeo Christian ethics. In case you haven't noticed the founding fathers invoked God's name quite frequently.

    Israel is certainly wealthy and educated, they're obviously very much tied in to Judaism.

    Japan has their Shinto shrines and considered their emperor divine until very recently.
    "A man's got to know his limitations."

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    Re: Attack in Libya (Warning, un-PC like brutal honesty in this thread)

    Quote Originally Posted by The Patriot View Post
    I support this. There are, however, other people in this thread who are using this incident to advocate MORE interventionalism.

    As for the signs, you can never know if these protests are staged or not. The link to the article shows more signs written in their language. I want to think they're being genuine.

    That would be me. Proudly. I'm not happy that that's the way it is, but I also realize it's the way it must be.

    They want and NEED our money. Their governements take it, but it never quite trickles down to the people that the reason they prosper is because of US "meddling". That's gonna change...and it needs to change. Information is the catalyst. Most of these barbarians are barbarians because they don't know better. There's a fix for that.

    If we "pull 'em all out", the mid-east starts fighting, and some of them have nukes. Oil shuts down, and while that won't hurt us DIRECTLY as bad as it used to, it hurts others. China needs oil. They invade the Spratley's. Japan fights back, and we can't ignore that. That's just one of a hundred BAD scenarios that ensue if we try to unilaterally disentangle. We're all in this mess together. We CANNOT let minorities of ignorant savages derail the whole political, social, and economic stability of the World.
    Fire Goodell

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    Re: Attack in Libya (Warning, un-PC like brutal honesty in this thread)

    Quote Originally Posted by zulater View Post
    Got a link? You can't trot that sort of shit out there with no backing.

    To my way of thinking this country was founded on Judeo Christian ethics. In case you haven't noticed the founding fathers invoked God's name quite frequently.

    Israel is certainly wealthy and educated, they're obviously very much tied in to Judaism.

    Japan has their Shinto shrines and considered their emperor divine until very recently.
    Good luck getting that link.

    That's why I NEVER post an opinion unless I already know what the data will say.
    Fire Goodell

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    Re: Attack in Libya (Warning, un-PC like brutal honesty in this thread)

    Quote Originally Posted by Devilsdancefloor View Post
    id like to know if he or the other the patriot posted knows what the sign they are holding up says. i so want to beleive in people, not matter ehat their background is, but i kind feel like they are trying to play us. i am sure theere is a certain percentage that are face palming, but there is a greater percentage Rioting.Time to say fuck it move out and when the want foreign aid tell them to go pound sand.Berry has the time to go partay with jayz, but seem not to have time for this crisis
    .
    It's actually a small percentage who are protesting. The number of Muslims not protesting is far greater than the number protesting. Obviously, we're being shown those who are protesting, but we don't get to see those who aren't out in the streets burning American flags and storming our embassies. Here in America, we saw the Westboro Baptist Church protesting at military funerals. If people from a non-Christian country saw videos of the protests, they might assume that the views being expressed by the Westboro protesters represent all Christians in America. Obviously, they don't. Likewise, the views expressed by those protesting in the Middle East right now don't represent the views of all Muslims in the Middle East. We're forming our opinions based only on what we're being shown.

    But I agree with you that it's time to pull our troops out and cut off aid. That's a discussion for another day though.

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    Re: Attack in Libya (Warning, un-PC like brutal honesty in this thread)

    I'm literally BEGGING people at this point to PLEASE read up on the role of the US in the World. At the very least, rent (or it's on Netflix) "The World Without US". This jingoistic reflexive isolationist talk is all WRONG.
    Fire Goodell

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    Re: Attack in Libya (Warning, un-PC like brutal honesty in this thread)

    Quote Originally Posted by Wallace108 View Post
    I'm not talking about government censorship. I'm talking about the double standard in the media where it's acceptable to mock Christian beliefs and symbols but not Islamic beliefs and symbols. When Comedy Central allows South Park to say whatever it wants about Christianity but then censors a show featuring Muhammad, that's a double standard. Find me something in main stream media mocking Islam that is equivalent to this:

    your talking about a company choosing what content it wants to put ou,t they can mock who ever they want they do not have to have a balance of mockery. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/abdulr...b_1143586.html this shows corporations pulling ads from a muslim tv show due to pressure from right wing groups. And all this brings me back to my point if we didnt have religion we wouldnt be sitting here arguing whos false prophet gets disrespected more.

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    Re: Attack in Libya (Warning, un-PC like brutal honesty in this thread)

    Quote Originally Posted by suitanim View Post
    I'm literally BEGGING people at this point to PLEASE read up on the role of the US in the World. At the very least, rent (or it's on Netflix) "The World Without US". This jingoistic reflexive isolationist talk is all WRONG.

    Unfortunately, you might as well talk to a tree. I've wasted countless hours trying to explain why it's importent for the USA to be involved in the world; to know what is going on in every corner of it. It seems that 95% of the country believes if we just brought every soldier home and stayed out of the rest of the world's business, all would be hunky dory. Nothing could be further from the truth.

    .

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    Re: Attack in Libya (Warning, un-PC like brutal honesty in this thread)

    Quote Originally Posted by zulater View Post
    Got a link? You can't trot that sort of shit out there with no backing.

    To my way of thinking this country was founded on Judeo Christian ethics. In case you haven't noticed the founding fathers invoked God's name quite frequently.

    Israel is certainly wealthy and educated, they're obviously very much tied in to Judaism.

    Japan has their Shinto shrines and considered their emperor divine until very recently.
    http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Essay:A...nd_world_peace
    http://www.secularhumanism.org/index...zuckerman_26_5
    http://evolutionspace.wordpress.com/...ern-a-summary/
    there are many more.
    Also are founding fathers did not found this country on christian principles. What principles that are exclusive to christianity was this country founded on? Most of the founding fathers were diests not christians, they founded the country to escape religious persecution left god out of the constitution and seperated church and state.

  29. #89
    Conservatarian Array title="Wallace108 is a splendid one to behold"> Wallace108's Avatar

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    Re: Attack in Libya (Warning, un-PC like brutal honesty in this thread)

    Quote Originally Posted by steeldawg View Post
    your talking about a company choosing what content it wants to put ou,t they can mock who ever they want they do not have to have a balance of mockery. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/abdulr...b_1143586.html this shows corporations pulling ads from a muslim tv show due to pressure from right wing groups. And all this brings me back to my point if we didnt have religion we wouldnt be sitting here arguing whos false prophet gets disrespected more.
    I agree. A media company such as Comedy Central is free to mock whoever it wants. If it wants to mock Christians and not Muslims, that's well within its right. But it's also MY right to point out the double standard. Likewise, if a company such as Lowes doesn't want to have its ads aired on a show like "All-American Muslim," that's well within its rights. So then why did certain lawmakers threaten legislative action against Lowes?

    Calling the Lowe's decision "un-American" and "naked religious bigotry," Sen. Ted Lieu, D-Torrance, told The Associated Press he would also consider legislative action if Lowe's doesn't apologize to Muslims and reinstate its ads.

    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011...#ixzz26TmJuGrf
    So again ... it's perfectly OK to offend Christians, but we wouldn't want to offend Muslims.

  30. #90
    Senior Member Array title="steeldawg is a jewel in the rough">

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    Re: Attack in Libya (Warning, un-PC like brutal honesty in this thread)

    Quote Originally Posted by Wallace108 View Post
    I agree. A media company such as Comedy Central is free to mock whoever it wants. If it wants to mock Christians and not Muslims, that's well within its right. But it's also MY right to point out the double standard. Likewise, if a company such as Lowes doesn't want to have its ads aired on a show like "All-American Muslim," that's well within its rights. So then why did certain lawmakers threaten legislative action against Lowes?



    So again ... it's perfectly OK to offend Christians, but we wouldn't want to offend Muslims.
    He said he would see if lowes violated an california laws, this the same as the art musuem having to battle the supreme court to show the piss christ.

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