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    Qui dall'inizio Array title="Vincent is on a distinguished road"> Vincent's Avatar

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    Israel stations nuclear missile subs off Iran

    Thought I'd take advantage of the honeymoon and throw out some red meat for Ric.

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle7140282.ece
    May 30, 2010
    Israel stations nuclear missile subs off Iran
    Uzi Mahnaimi in Tel Aviv

    Three German-built Israeli submarines equipped with nuclear cruise missiles are to be deployed in the Gulf near the Iranian coastline.

    The first has been sent in response to Israeli fears that ballistic missiles developed by Iran, Syria and Hezbollah, a political and military organisation in Lebanon, could hit sites in Israel, including air bases and missile launchers.

    The submarines of Flotilla 7 — Dolphin, Tekuma and Leviathan — have visited the Gulf before. But the decision has now been taken to ensure a permanent presence of at least one of the vessels.

    The flotilla’s commander, identified only as “Colonel O”, told an Israeli newspaper: “We are an underwater assault force. We’re operating deep and far, very far, from our borders.”

    Each of the submarines has a crew of 35 to 50, commanded by a colonel capable of launching a nuclear cruise missile.

    The vessels can remain at sea for about 50 days and stay submerged up to 1,150ft below the surface for at least a week. Some of the cruise missiles are equipped with the most advanced nuclear warheads in the Israeli arsenal.

    The deployment is designed to act as a deterrent, gather intelligence and potentially to land Mossad agents. “We’re a solid base for collecting sensitive information, as we can stay for a long time in one place,” said a flotilla officer.

    The submarines could be used if Iran continues its programme to produce a nuclear bomb. “The 1,500km range of the submarines’ cruise missiles can reach any target in Iran,” said a navy officer.

    Apparently responding to the Israeli activity, an Iranian admiral said: “Anyone who wishes to do an evil act in the Persian Gulf will receive a forceful response from us.”

    Israel’s urgent need to deter the Iran-Syria-Hezbollah alliance was demonstrated last month. Ehud Barak, the defence minister, was said to have shown President Barack Obama classified satellite images of a convoy of ballistic missiles leaving Syria on the way to Hezbollah in Lebanon.

    Binyamin Netanyahu, the prime minister, will emphasise the danger to Obama in Washington this week.

    Tel Aviv, Israel’s business and defence centre, remains the most threatened city in the world, said one expert. “There are more missiles per square foot targeting Tel Aviv than any other city,” he said.
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    found this older article from april..

    Israel could opt for nuke strikes on Iran
    Published: April 8, 2010 at 3:35 PM

    TEL AVIV, Israel, April 8 (UPI) -- U.S. President Barack Obama and his Russian counterpart, Dmitry Medvedev, may have signed a landmark arms-control treaty, but a U.S. think tank is suggesting Israel could resort to using tactical nuclear weapons to destroy Iran's deeply buried nuclear facilities.

    Whether this is all part of a U.S. effort to crank up the pressure on Iran to be more compliant on the nuclear issue by using scare tactics or if the right-wing government in Israel is actually inclined to resort to nuclear weapons is almost impossible to discern.

    But one day after the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington released a report on March 26 noting that "some believe that nuclear weapons are the only weapons that can destroy targets deep underground or in tunnels," The New York Times reported Iran was suspected of preparing to build two more uranium enrichment plants.

    And just to ram the message home, on March 28, the Times' Sunday edition ran an analysis headlined "Imagining an Israeli Strike on Iran."

    The 208-page report, by veteran Middle East analysts Anthony Cordesman and Abdullah Toukan, argued that Israel's air force does not have the firepower to knock out the Iranian facilities and that low-yield tactical nuclear warheads would be the only way to destroy them.

    Israel, of course, has made no comment on this at all, in line with its policy of deliberate ambiguity about its nuclear arsenal, believed to total some 600 warheads, bombs and artillery shells.

    Nor does it discuss its inventory of Jericho II -- and probably some Jericho III -- ballistic missiles capable of carrying nuclear warheads. These are placed in heavily fortified silos in the Judean Hills and near two or three Israeli air bases.

    But if Israel elected to launch a nuclear strike, it is likely that the Jerichos would be the chosen means of delivery.

    They would eliminate Israeli casualties, of which there would be an appreciable number if the air force was thrown at Iran's heavily protected nuclear infrastructure, and the loss of valuable strike aircraft.

    One assessment estimated Israel would need 90-100 long-range F-15I and F-16I aircraft for such strikes, of which around 20 percent would be lost.

    In an assessment in March 2009, Toukan estimated that 42 Jericho IIIs, with 1,650-pound conventional warheads, would be needed to "severely damage or demolish" Iran's core nuclear facilities at Natanz, Isfahan and Arak.

    That, according to most estimates, would be enough to set back Iran's nuclear arms project by two or three years.

    But it would also run the risk of retaliatory attacks on Israel, either with Iran's Shehab-3 intermediate-range ballistic missiles -- Tehran has threatened to unleash 600, although there's no evidence it has that many -- or using local proxies Hezbollah and Hamas.

    Israel could also use its three German-built Dolphin-class submarines, reportedly adapted to launch nuclear-tipped cruise missiles, firing from the Arabian Sea to add to the mayhem.

    Little is known about the Jericho III, but it is believed be a three-stage, solid-fuel missile capable of carrying a nuclear warhead for a minimum range of 2,980 miles.

    Israel has never even hinted at using nuclear weapons against Iran.

    President Shimon Peres, who played a key role in creating Israel's nuclear capability in the 1950s and 60s, has declared the Jewish state "will not be the first to introduce nuclear weapons to the region."

    The Americans have repeatedly warned Israel not to mount unilateral pre-emptive strikes against Iran because that could drag the United States into another war.

    Obama's new version of U.S. nuclear strategy unveiled Tuesday significantly narrows the circumstances in which Americans would employ nuclear arms. But it does allow their use against rogue states like Iran.

    While that's hardly a green light for Israel, former Central Intelligence Agency official Philip Giraldi notes: "Israel is fast becoming a pariah nation … Like South Africa, the Israeli response to criticism has been to become more reactionary … waging unending war against its neighbors to maintain cohesion against foreign enemies.

    "There is a certain danger in isolating the Israelis too much as it … might influence a dangerously unstable government to take action that might include exploiting its nuclear arsenal in search of Armageddon."
    Last edited by MasterOfPuppets; 05-31-2010 at 12:56 AM.

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    Russian foreign minister dismisses Iran criticism

    By JIM HEINTZ, Associated Press Writer Jim Heintz, Associated Press Writer – Thu May 27, 8:11 am ET

    MOSCOW – Russia's foreign minister on Thursday brushed off Iran's recent criticism as an emotional outburst and expressed frustration with Tehran in the standoff over its nuclear program.

    The comments indicated growing dismay with Iran in Russia, whose support had somewhat buffered Tehran against calls in the West for tougher action.

    After long resistance, Russia is now supporting possible new sanctions against Iran over concern that its is developing nuclear weapons. Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad took Russia to task for this on Wednesday, saying it was difficult to gauge whether the Kremlin was a friend or an enemy.

    "This statement is being interpreted as emotional," Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said at a news conference.

    He lamented that, despite Russia's years of efforts to resolve the dispute, "the response from the Iranian side has been unsatisfactory."

    Russia and Iran have cultivated close relations for years, including Russia's construction of the Bushehr nuclear plant that many critics say is connected to Iran's efforts to build nuclear weapons. Russia also signed a contract in 2007 to sell S-300 air-defense missiles to Iran, which would substantially increase Iran's defense capacities, though none have been delivered.

    Despite the ties, Russia has been able to exert little visible leverage on Iran to cooperate with the International Atomic Energy Agency, and its frustration is clearly growing.

    Lavrov appeared to hint that Moscow is concerned that Iran's lack of cooperation could be undermining Russia's image as a major force in the international community.

    "All the decisions that we make on all questions of external policy are based on national interests and on our responsibility as a great state which is involved in an array of international efforts to resolve difficult situations. And Iran is one of these," he said.

    Aside from Ahmadinejad's criticism, Iran in turn has shown other signs this week of growing irritation with Moscow. The Iranian ambassador this week said pointedly that Iran expects Russia to fulfill the S-300 contract.

    Lavrov has suggested the delay in delivery is due to concerns about aggravating regional tensions. Israel vehemently opposes delivery of the missiles.

    Despite the sparring between Tehran and Moscow, Lavrov said Russia supports a proposed nuclear fuel swap deal that advocates say could break the standoff, but which the United States has dismissed as a ploy.

    The swap offer was negotiated last week by Brazil and Turkey, which are opposed to new U.N. sanctions on Iran. It would commit Iran to shipping 1,200 kilograms of low-enriched uranium for storage abroad — in this case to Turkey. In exchange, Iran would get fuel rods made from 20-percent enriched uranium; that level of enrichment is high enough for use in research reactors but too low for nuclear weapons.

    "Very much will depend on how the Iranian side will approach its obligations. If it observes them strictly, then Russia will actively support the realization of the plan proposed by Brazil and Turkey," Lavrov said. "This plan serves the interests of peaceful resolution of the Iranian nuclear program."

    Ahmadinejad, in the same speech in which he criticized Russia, warned the United States that it will miss a historic opportunity for cooperation if it turns down the nuclear fuel swap deal.
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/iran_nuclear

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    Really hoopy frood Array title="ricardisimo is an unknown quantity at this point">

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    Israel's been quite busy of late propping up their image:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/mid...t/10199480.stm
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    Qui dall'inizio Array title="Vincent is on a distinguished road"> Vincent's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by ricardisimo View Post
    Israel's been quite busy of late propping up their image:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/mid...t/10199480.stm
    It seems to be semantics. The Israelis think they were being beaten with pipes and chains and the "Pro-Palestinian campaigners say the soldiers opened fire unprovoked when they landed on the aid-carrying ships". Maybe it just depends on the neighborhood you're from.

    The video is a little fuzzy. Who are the folks being beaten? And who are the "beaters"? Oh look, they're throwing them off the boat. Huh. Where'd they get all those pipes and chains?

    I'm sort of "old fashioned". If somebody tried to hit me with a pipe or a chain, I'd like to think I'd be in a position to shoot them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vincent View Post
    It seems to be semantics. The Israelis think they were being beaten with pipes and chains and the "Pro-Palestinian campaigners say the soldiers opened fire unprovoked when they landed on the aid-carrying ships". Maybe it just depends on the neighborhood you're from.

    The video is a little fuzzy. Who are the folks being beaten? And who are the "beaters"? Oh look, they're throwing them off the boat. Huh. Where'd they get all those pipes and chains?

    I'm sort of "old fashioned". If somebody tried to hit me with a pipe or a chain, I'd like to think I'd be in a position to shoot them.
    Yeah, I'm kind of old-fashioned too. When I raid someone else's unarmed boat in full military gear, I expect to be greeted warmly. Whatever happened to manners?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vincent View Post
    It seems to be semantics. The Israelis think they were being beaten with pipes and chains and the "Pro-Palestinian campaigners say the soldiers opened fire unprovoked when they landed on the aid-carrying ships". Maybe it just depends on the neighborhood you're from.

    The video is a little fuzzy. Who are the folks being beaten? And who are the "beaters"? Oh look, they're throwing them off the boat. Huh. Where'd they get all those pipes and chains?

    I'm sort of "old fashioned". If somebody tried to hit me with a pipe or a chain, I'd like to think I'd be in a position to shoot them.
    Apparently the Israelis were armed with paint guns.


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    N. Korea blows up a ship and crew - not a peep from the "international community".

    Oh well. What's a few dead S. Koreans?


    But nothing gets the muzzie-loving Jew haters more lathered up than Israel fighting back.



    Anger across Europe over Israeli action

    This latest incident has been described as state terrorism by Turkey’s prime minister.

    Earlier there had been demonstrations in cities across Europe including Paris, Stockholm, Rome and Athens, where police in some cases used teargas against protesters.

    Most European countries have summoned Israeli diplomats to condemn what many described as a disproportionate use of force against the aid flotilla.

    In London, too, there were angry scenes.

    More than a thousand pro-Palestinian demonstrators headed for the Israeli embassy, waving placards saying “Disarm Israel” and accusing the country of “war crimes”.

    http://www.euronews.net/2010/06/01/a...sraeli-action/

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    This is definitely a black eye for Israel. However, it's not like they've never been "tatted" in a tit-for-tat...

    Things is definitely gettin' a mite bit hairy ion the Mideast....

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    this is really no different than what goes on in iraq, afghanistan , or pakistan. an insurgant can blow up 100 civilians and hardly get a peep out of the population, but if we or the U.N. kill 1 civilian by accident the population acts all butt hurt ..

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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterOfPuppets View Post
    this is really no different than what goes on in iraq, afghanistan , or pakistan. an insurgant can blow up 100 civilians and hardly get a peep out of the population, but if we or the U.N. kill 1 civilian by accident the population acts all butt hurt ..
    Exactly. Suicide bombers are also state sponsored acts of terrorism. Israel is the only country with balls enough to openly seek justice with similar means of their attackers.
    All Defense!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ALLD View Post
    Exactly. Suicide bombers are also state sponsored acts of terrorism. Israel is the only country with balls enough to openly seek justice with similar means of their attackers.
    So, an eye-for-an-eye is justice?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killer View Post
    N. Korea blows up a ship and crew - not a peep from the "international community".

    Oh well. What's a few dead S. Koreans?


    But nothing gets the muzzie-loving Jew haters more lathered up than Israel fighting back.



    Anger across Europe over Israeli action

    This latest incident has been described as state terrorism by Turkey’s prime minister.

    Earlier there had been demonstrations in cities across Europe including Paris, Stockholm, Rome and Athens, where police in some cases used teargas against protesters.

    Most European countries have summoned Israeli diplomats to condemn what many described as a disproportionate use of force against the aid flotilla.

    In London, too, there were angry scenes.

    More than a thousand pro-Palestinian demonstrators headed for the Israeli embassy, waving placards saying “Disarm Israel” and accusing the country of “war crimes”.

    http://www.euronews.net/2010/06/01/a...sraeli-action/
    Not a peep? Really?

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/asi...c/10201876.stm

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/asi...c/10160204.stm

    ... as well as continuing (and justified) rage and sanctions over their nuclear tests.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ricardisimo View Post
    Not a peep? Really?

    Phhhthp - I told you Hillary would write her stern letter and that would be the end of it.

    But let the Jews get uppity and fire off a few rounds and all the burka burka's get in an uproar, especially in communist Europe.

    We should have let Hitler have France, Italy and all of Europe and backed them against the Russians. He was easy to eliminate at the end. England was always the weakestm now they're overun with Muslims and are nothing more than an Arab state. Fuck em.

    All that cold war money we could have spent building bases on the moon and Mars.

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    Umm...
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    New Aid Ship Heads To Gaza>> Israel Vows To Stop It (6/4/10)

    By Friday afternoon, the ship was 150 miles (240 kilometers) from the coast of Gaza in international waters, the group said on its website. Irish Nobel Peace Prize laureate Mairead McGuire and the former head of the U.N. Oil-for-Food program in Iraq, Denis Halliday, were among the 11 passengers on board.

    The Irish vessel is named after an American college student crushed to death by an Israeli army bulldozer while protesting house demolitions in Gaza.

    Israel will not allow the aid ship to reach Gaza, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu told senior Cabinet ministers late Thursday. According to a participant in the meeting, he said Israel made several offers to direct the ship to an Israeli port, where the aid supplies would be unloaded, inspected and transferred to Gaza by land, but the offers were rejected.

    Netanyahu has hotly rejected calls to lift the blockade on Gaza, insisting that it prevents missile attacks on Israel. The Rachel Corrie's cargo of concrete is also a problem, because Israel considers that to have military uses.

    Netanyahu has instructed the military to act with sensitivity in preventing the Rachel Corrie from landing and avoid harming those on board, the participant said, speaking on condition of anonymity because the meeting was closed.

    Israel has rejected demands for an international panel to probe Monday's deadly commando raid on the aid ships, saying it can conduct a professional, impartial investigation on its own.

    Activists say Israel sabotaged the previous aid flotilla, and Israeli defense officials said Friday only that unspecified "actions" were taken when the boats were still far from Gaza that delayed the flotilla. They spoke on condition of anonymity because the information was classified.

    The Turkish activists' deaths on the aid ship increased tensions in the Mideast, especially with Turkey, an important ally of Israel. On Thursday, Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan called Israel's actions "a historic mistake."

    His deputy on Friday announced that Turkey was reducing its economic and defense cooperation with Israel. Deputy Prime Minister Bulent Arinc said all deals with Israel are being evaluated.

    "We are serious on this issue. New cooperation will not start and relations with Israel will be reduced," he said.

    Israel says its commandos opened fire Monday as a last resort after they were attacked, and released a video showing soldiers in riot gear descending from a helicopter into a crowd of men with clubs. Three or four activists overpowered each soldier as he landed.

    Returning activists admitted fighting with the Israeli commandos but insisted their actions were in self defense because the ships were being boarded in international waters by a military force.

    In Istanbul on Friday, 20,000 people waved Turkish, Palestinian and Hezbollah flags in a memorial service outside the Beyazit mosque for a member of the IHH charity group who the activists say was killed while taking pictures of the Israeli commando raid.

    The youngest of the nine activists killed, 19-year-old Furkan Dogan, was being buried Friday in his family's hometown in Kayseri in central Turkey. Another 10,000 people attended the funeral service for Dogan ahead of his burial, chanting "down with Israel," but Dogan's father, Ahmet Dogan, was stoic.

    "Neither I nor his mother or brother have any grief," he told the AP as he arranged flowers on his son's coffin before prayers started. "We believe he became a martyr and God accepts martyrs to paradise."

    Dogan, who was born in Troy, New York, moved to Turkey when he was two. The other eight slain activists were all Turkish nationals.

    In Istanbul, three members of an anti-Zionist Jewish sect called a news conference to blast Israel's actions.

    "We are totally opposed and condemn this atrocity that has been perpetrated against Turkey, against the ships of the human rights activists," Rabbi Yisroel Dovid Weiss, a leader of the radical Neturei Karta, told reporters.

    "We all pray for the speedy and peaceful total dismantlement of the state of Israel and for a free Gaza ... so we can live together — Jews, Muslims and Christians."
    Last edited by SteelerEmpire; 06-04-2010 at 12:07 PM.

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    I don't really care what Israel does. They are a sovereign nation capable of wearing big boy pants and making their own decisions. I think Obama has made it pretty clear that we aren't going to stand behind them when they go crazy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SteelersinCA View Post
    I don't really care what Israel does. They are a sovereign nation capable of wearing big boy pants and making their own decisions. I think Obama has made it pretty clear that we aren't going to stand behind them when they go crazy.
    What else would you expect from a closet muslim.


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    Quote Originally Posted by SteelersinCA View Post
    I think Obama has made it pretty clear that we aren't going to stand behind them when they go crazy.
    oh really


    White House Backs UN Stance on Israeli Flotilla Raid

    The Obama administration is refusing to condemn Israel for its deadly raid on a convoy of ships carrying aid to the Gaza Strip.

    http://www1.voanews.com/english/news...-95347184.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Killer View Post
    oh really


    White House Backs UN Stance on Israeli Flotilla Raid

    The Obama administration is refusing to condemn Israel for its deadly raid on a convoy of ships carrying aid to the Gaza Strip.

    http://www1.voanews.com/english/news...-95347184.html
    Hey, tomorrow it could be different, the man doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground. What can I do?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Killer View Post
    oh really


    White House Backs UN Stance on Israeli Flotilla Raid

    The Obama administration is refusing to condemn Israel for its deadly raid on a convoy of ships carrying aid to the Gaza Strip.

    http://www1.voanews.com/english/news...-95347184.html
    Uh, Killer... didn't you just state five minutes ago that the UN was bringing down the hammer on Israel, but not on North Korea? And now you post that the US and UN are refusing to condemn Israel?

    Does all of reality bend to your most short-sighted whims and rhetorical needs?
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteelersinCA View Post
    I don't really care what Israel does. They are a sovereign nation capable of wearing big boy pants and making their own decisions. I think Obama has made it pretty clear that we aren't going to stand behind them when they go crazy.
    Crazy is the operative word...
    We have to ask ourselves a simple, basic, fundamental question: can a lunatic state like Israel be trusted with two to three hundred nuclear devices when it is now threatening its neighbors Iran and Lebanon with an attack?
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    Israel had every reason to board the ship and defend themselves against what could have possibly been an arm carrying ship, it was not until they were being attacked that they opened fire. Also by putting the subs out there they are protecting their country from what many believe could be an impending attack; so I do not understand the opposition to what they are doing is besides the fact that they took action instead of waiting for more of their citizens to be murdered.

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    Quote Originally Posted by steelersfanman92 View Post
    Israel had every reason to board the ship and defend themselves against what could have possibly been an arm carrying ship, it was not until they were being attacked that they opened fire. Also by putting the subs out there they are protecting their country from what many believe could be an impending attack; so I do not understand the opposition to what they are doing is besides the fact that they took action instead of waiting for more of their citizens to be murdered.
    Actually, they had no legal reason whatsoever to board the ship. Technically speaking, Palestine is a sovereign nation, as Israel itself accepted when it endorsed the Roadmap. Sovereignty means that it can receive transport ships in its ports. Certainly it can receive ships stocked with construction equipment.

    The ships were also purposely manned by the aid organizers with high-profile peace activists from Israel, the US and Europe, for the purposes of discouraging Israel from doing precisely what they did. No one anticipated Israel's paranoid meltdown, however. Those same octogenarian peace activists just got schooled, to be sure. Watch them - and their affiliated groups - get radicalized into violently anti-Israeli factions now.

    Israel has "missed" yet another opportunity for peace. By missed I mean purposely and violently squashed it.
    Last edited by ricardisimo; 06-02-2010 at 03:07 AM.
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    Wildcat Steelers fan Array title="steelersfanman92 is an unknown quantity at this point"> steelersfanman92's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by ricardisimo View Post
    Actually, they had no legal reason whatsoever to board the ship. Technically speaking, Palestine is a sovereign nation, as Israel itself accepted when it endorsed the Roadmap. Sovereignty means that it can receive transport ships in its ports. Certainly it can receive ships stocked with construction equipment.

    The ships were also purposely manned by the aid organizers with high-profile peace activists from Israel, the US and Europe, for the purposes of discouraging Israel from doing precisely what they did. No one anticipated Israel's paranoid meltdown, however. Those same octogenarian peace activists just got schooled, to be sure. Watch them - and their affiliated groups - get radicalized into violently anti-Israeli factions now.

    Israel has "missed" yet another opportunity for peace. By missed I mean purposely and violently squashed it.
    Well actually Israel had legal reason to board the ship

    Alan DershowitzPosted: June 1, 2010 03:40 PM

    Israel's Actions Were Entirely Lawful Though Probably Unwise

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    Read More: Egypt Port Israel , Gaza , Gaza Blockade , Gaza Flotilla , Israel , Israel Flotilla , Mideast , World News
    Although the wisdom of Israel's actions in stopping the Gaza flotilla is open to question, the legality of its actions is not. What Israel did was entirely consistent with both international and domestic law. In order to understand why Israel acted within its rights, the complex events at sea must be deconstructed.

    First, there is the Israeli blockade of Gaza, which included a naval blockade. Recall that when Israel ended its occupation of Gaza, it did not impose a blockade. Indeed it left behind agricultural facilities in the hope that the newly liberated Gaza Strip would become a peaceful and productive area. Instead Hamas seized control over Gaza and engaged in acts of warfare against Israel. These acts of warfare featured anti-personnel rockets, nearly 10,000 of them, directed at Israeli civilians. This was not only an act of warfare, it was a war crime. Israel responded to the rockets by declaring a blockade, the purpose of which was to assure that no rockets, or other material that could be used for making war against Israeli civilians, was permitted into Gaza. Israel allowed humanitarian aid through its checkpoints. Egypt as well participated in the blockade. There was never a humanitarian crisis in Gaza, merely a shortage of certain goods that would end if the rocket attacks ended.

    The legality of blockades as a response to acts of war is not subject to serious doubt. When the United States blockaded Cuba during the missile crisis, the State Department issued an opinion declaring the blockade to be lawful. This, despite the fact that Cuba had not engaged in any act of belligerency against the United States. Other nations have similarly enforced naval blockades to assure their own security.

    The second issue is whether it is lawful to enforce a legal blockade in international waters. Again, law and practice are clear. If there is no doubt that the offending ships have made a firm determination to break the blockade, then the blockade may be enforced before the offending ships cross the line into domestic waters. Again the United States and other western countries have frequently boarded ships at high sea in order to assure their security.

    Third, were those on board the flotilla innocent non-combatants or did they lose that status once they agreed to engage in the military act of breaking the blockade? Let there be no mistake about the purpose of this flotilla. It was decidedly not to provide humanitarian aid to the residents of Gaza, but rather the break the entirely lawful Israeli military blockade. The proof lies in the fact that both Israel and Egypt offered to have all the food, medicine and other humanitarian goods sent to Gaza, if the boats agreed to land in an Israeli or Egyptian port. That humanitarian offer was soundly rejected by the leaders of the flotilla who publicly announced:

    "This mission is not about delivering humanitarian supplies, it's about breaking Israel's siege on 1.5 million Palestinians." (AFP, May 27, 2010.)

    The act of breaking a military siege is itself a military act, and those knowingly participating in such military action put in doubt their status as non-combatants.

    It is a close question whether "civilians" who agree too participate in the breaking of a military blockade have become combatants. They are certainly something different than pure, innocent civilians, and perhaps they are also somewhat different from pure armed combatants. They fit uncomfortably onto the continuum of civilianality that has come to characterize asymmetrical warfare.

    Finally, we come to the issue of the right of self-defense engaged in by Israeli soldiers who were attacked by activists on the boat. There can be little doubt that the moment any person on the boat picked up a weapon and began to attack Israeli soldiers boarding the vessel, they lost their status as innocent civilians. Even if that were not the case, under ordinary civilian rules of self defense, every Israeli soldier had the right to protect himself and his colleagues from attack by knife and pipe wielding assailants. Less there be any doubt that Israeli soldiers were under attack, simply view the video and watch, as so-called peaceful "activists" repeatedly pummel Israeli soldiers with metal rods. Every individual has the right to repel such attacks by the use of lethal force, especially when the soldiers were so outnumbered on the deck of the ship. Recall that Israel's rules of engagement required its soldiers to fire only paintballs unless their lives were in danger. Would any country in the world deny its soldiers the right of self-defense under comparable circumstances?

    Notwithstanding the legality of Israel's actions, the international community has once again ganged up on Israel. In doing so, Israel's critics have failed to pinpoint precisely what Israel did that allegedly violates international law. Some have wrongly focused on the blockade itself. Others have erroneously pointed to the location of the boarding in international waters. Most have simply pointed to the deaths of so-called peace activists, though these deaths appear to be the result of lawful acts of self-defense. None of these factors alone warrant condemnation, but the end result surely deserves scrutiny by Israeli policy makers. There can be little doubt that the mission was a failure, as judged by its results. It is important, however, to distinguish between faulty policies on the one hand, and alleged violations of international law on the other hand. Only the latter would warrant international intervention, and the case has simply not been made that Israel violated international law.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alan-d...tml?view=print

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    Really hoopy frood Array title="ricardisimo is an unknown quantity at this point">

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    Quote Originally Posted by steelersfanman92 View Post
    Well actually Israel had legal reason to board the ship
    Dershowitz is a tool who thinks torture is effective, legal and constitutional... as long as it is Westerners doing the torturing and non-Westerners at the other end. Why his legal opinions matter at all is curious and telling.

    That he would cite the US blockade of Cuba as an example of how blockades are routine and uncontroversial is... odd. Obviously, the US had no legal problem with its own blockade - nor with the subsequent embargo on Cuba, via Helms-Burton and other laws. Never mind that the UN has declared the embargo illegal every single year since 1992. As for the blockade itself, it must be judged legal or not by the UN Security Council (not the US and certainly not Alan Dershowitz) who are the only legal arbiters of such things since 1945. Besides, if as a consequence of the blockade the US had blown up the planet - as we almost did - I'm confident the Security Council would have felt such action to be not only illegal, but disproportionate... if anyone were still alive, that is.

    Ask yourself if it would be legal for Europe to blockade the US whenever we elected a Republican president, because they disliked everything the party represented, and viewed them as a bad partner. Firstly, it's clearly illegal to do that. Secondly, can you think of a better way to bolster support for the Republican Party (or whatever party) than to have your foreign competitors and enemies blockade you for voting them in? In other words, Israel's blockade of Gaza is illegal and stupid.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ricardisimo View Post
    Ask yourself if it would be legal for Europe to blockade the US whenever we elected a Republican president, because they disliked everything the party represented, and viewed them as a bad partner. Firstly, it's clearly illegal to do that. Secondly, can you think of a better way to bolster support for the Republican Party (or whatever party) than to have your foreign competitors and enemies blockade you for voting them in? In other words, Israel's blockade of Gaza is illegal and stupid.
    You can not compare those two. If the Republican Party had murdered Europeans like Hamas has, if the Republicans shot missles at unarmed and unsuspecting men, women, and children then yes a blockade would be warrented, but those are two completely diferent scenarios.

    I might be taking this a little personally due to the fact that I have friends fighting in the IDF and I am a huge supporter of Israel so I hold this issue pretty close to home.

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    Do no harm - take no shit Array title="Killer is on a distinguished road"> Killer's Avatar

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    Originally Posted by SteelersinCA
    I think Obama has made it pretty clear that we aren't going to stand behind them when they go crazy.


    White House Backs UN Stance on Israeli Flotilla Raid....

    What can I do?
    PLUG THE DAMN HOLE!

    heh heh - you asked
    Last edited by Killer; 06-02-2010 at 12:07 AM.

  29. #29
    Do no harm - take no shit Array title="Killer is on a distinguished road"> Killer's Avatar

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    Barry wants the jew vote. That trumps everything. It turned FL blue.
    Nobody cares what Europe wants.

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    First off, Israel itself has admitted it made many mistakes in the raid. It sounds like they had poor intelligence...but, it's important to bear in mind that Hezbollah was dropping tons of rockets on Israel just a couple years ago. It's got to be difficult living under those kind of circumstances...

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