Is Ben's problem with sacks TOO MANY blockers?

[tony hipchest]

we all know ben is most successful in teh "hurry up/ no huddle offense. this is usually run out of "11 personel" which (in the past) would be his 5 most effective weapons on the field.

hines, holmes, wallace, heath, parker/mendenhall. (11 personel refers to one back, one TE and the rest (3) wr, plus with the linemen).

this is some very pertinent information-

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d...changing-views

SOUTH LAKE TAHOE, Nev. -- The American Century Championship Golf Classic is a wonderful event that raises hundreds of thousands of dollars and, for the fifth year in a row, is supporting Livestrong, the foundation established by cancer survivor Lance Armstrong. Athletes and celebrities from all over the country are here to support this program. Among them are a number of NFL quarterbacks.
I sat down with Aaron Rodgers, Matt Ryan, Jim McMahon, Joe Theismann, Trent Dilfer and Mark Rypien to get a good blend of what some active and retired players think about today's game. It was a very enlightening experience.
Rodgers, Ryan: Limited pass protection needed
The two active quarterbacks confirmed a notion I had that quarterbacks love five-man blocking schemes in the passing game, as opposed to more. For years, it was always believed that if the QB was being pressured then extra blockers were needed. These young passers both would rather see an additional receiver or two out in patterns than more blockers. Rodgers explained he feels better seeing the rush coming and getting the ball to an open receiver. As he said, "Just give me a chance to see it coming."

Unlock HQ Video HQ video delivered by Akamai With Ryan, I pursued the idea of the shotgun vs. being under center. He felt there really wasn't much difference for him but brought up an interesting point that made a lot of sense. He said that by getting under center and in position to take a snap, the defense had to declare what they were doing. In the shotgun, he added, defenses tended to move around and disguise more.

this article has excellent charts and stats (see link for it in its entirety) that help support this philosophy and is definitely worth further investigation when examining the offense the steelers employ-

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d...ss-protection-


Spread offense has ability to help teams in pass protection

By Pat Kirwan | NFL.com
Senior Analyst
During a recent sit-down with two NFL offensive line coaches, I was taken by surprise. What caught my attention is the apparent shift in philosophy when it comes to using the spread formation to protect the quarterback in passing situations.
The coaches, one active and the other retired, surprisingly favored five-man protections over six or seven blockers under certain conditions.
Years ago, both old-school coaches believed in getting everyone blocked, but now see the potential benefits of less protectors and the use of spread sets to neutralize the opposing pass rush. As one coach pointed out as a criticism of using six or seven men, "The more people I crowd in around the QB to get the blitz blocked up, the more people are capable of rushing the passer."
First, let's explore how a spread formation with an empty set (no back in the backfield) or a formation with one running back, who has a free release, can protect the passer. Both strategies are known as "scat" protection, which means the offensive line will declare the five defenders they will block, leaving the quarterback responsible for the other rushers with a quick release and an accurate pass.
While there's risk involved, the spread formation also moves the extra defenders away from pass rush lanes and makes it very difficult to get to the signal-caller in time.

NFL.com Illustration

* By moving these players away from the tackles, potential pass rushers have to move out with them, and it becomes easy for the quarterback to identify which defenders are rushing.

NFL.com Illustration

So, when is it time to spread out your offense to try to neutralize the blitz?

[MasterOfPuppets]

i seem to recall ben getting sacked pretty often with an empty backfield.

[Mattsme]

Very interesting post. Just one question. When did this become a football forum?

[tony hipchest]

i seem to recall ben getting sacked pretty often with an empty backfield.

is that the empty set or one back free release? is heath used as an extra lineman or split out as an additional wr?

there are 2 possiblities here. arians might possibly be behind the curve in some of his schemes, or ben is too slow to read the defense no matter how many are kept in to block.

while i believe it is the former, matt ryan is being described as a film junkie who has spent the bulk of this offseason studying the likes of seasoned veterans such as manning and brees.

ben has been known to study some film, and we already know what he spends his offseasons doing (golf and babes).

[Chidi29]

i seem to recall ben getting sacked pretty often with an empty backfield.

For what it's worth, according to my notes, in plays where I specify the formation, we were only sacked 1/3 of the time out of the empty set. 6/18.

[Chidi29]

The biggest challenge for Ben is to get him to be able to hit the safety valve underneath. There are times where'd he rather look at his primary guy and go through his progressions than hit the TE or RB underneath and pick up 5-8 yards in the process.

[tony hipchest]

i wish i could remember the specifics, but i heard it on the radio several weeks ago...

kirwan studied an unnamed qb who had 30-40 sacks. only 2 of those sacks came with just 5 blockers. all the rest came with 6 or 7.

[tony hipchest]

Very interesting post. Just one question. When did this become a football forum?

my bad. but dont worry... this thread is destined to drop off the bottom of the page w/in a day and a half, especially when such provocative thoughts such as the bleacher report's "TO to the Steelers" are out there...

[fansince'76]

The biggest challenge for Ben is to get him to be able to hit the safety valve underneath. There are times where'd he rather look at his primary guy and go through his progressions than hit the TE or RB underneath and pick up 5-8 yards in the process.

Agreed. A good chunk of Ben's sacks come from looking for the home run ball instead of simply dumping it off and taking what the defense gives him. He also gets a significant share of them from simply refusing to give up on a play when he's been flushed from the pocket when most of the other QBs in the league would have simply thrown the ball away. Ironically, his improvisational ability and salvaging broken plays (which IMO, he's best in the league at) also often winds up in a drive-killing sack. Feast or famine.

Overall, an interesting analysis. However, the spread formation, IMO, takes away the threat of an effective running option for the offense during the plays it is employed, allowing the defense to simply "load up for bear" against the pass where both pressuring the QB and coverage is concerned, especially considering the speed of NFL defenses. However, if you have a QB who actually has a quick release (and not all of them have it - particularly Ben), that is when I can see a spread formation being most effective for an offense. It doesn't work well for every QB. Just my opinion.

[Chidi29]

Agreed. A good chunk of Ben's sacks come from looking for the home run ball instead of simply dumping it off and taking what the defense gives him. He also gets a significant share of them from simply refusing to give up on a play when he's been flushed from the pocket when most of the other QBs in the league would have simply thrown the ball away. Ironically, his improvisational ability and salvaging broken plays (which IMO, he's best in the league at) also often winds up in a drive-killing sack. Feast or famine.

Hit the nail on the head. While I don't think you can ever, or really should for that matter, completely change Ben's style (Because that is what makes him special) it does need to be tamed.

Remember the touchdown pass he threw to Moore against the Packers last year? Five wide inside the ten. Just a quick slant to Moore. No thought, no progressions, just firing the ball to Moore before the linebacker could jump the route. That's what Ben needs to do consistently. Because you have times like this against the Browns.

3rd and 7, 15:00 in the second: This one is really interesting and at the end of the day, I blame Ben. We've run this play before a couple times with different people and we've gotten mixed results; big plays to Holmes or a sack like what happened in week one when Jevon Kearse came flying off the edge and smacked Ben. People blame Colon and that looks like the issue at first glance but when you go back and break it down, it's on Ben. We were running verticals with Ward and Wallace and a slant underneath with Miller. You can tell that Wallace knows he isn't an intended target, at least, not the main one because he intentionally rubs the cornerback to keep him from cleanly jumping over Heath. Colon helps Essex inside likely so the DT can't get inside and get a hand on the slant that'd be coming right over Essex. But with the CB blitz coming right at Ben, he goes into "Oh crap!" mode and tries to take off instead of just making the throw to Heath. That creates the sack.

If/when Ben ever becomes consistent, only then will he have reached his full potential.

[steeldevil]

On a side note, I do recall a few times last year when Ben was trying to extend the play and actually got sacked because he ran into one of the Olinemen.... So in those cases, yes those sacks were due to having too many blockers...

[Chidi29]

On a side note, I do recall a few times last year when Ben was trying to extend the play and actually got sacked because he ran into one of the Olinemen.... So in those cases, yes those sacks were due to having too many blockers...

One of the funniest, and downright unluckiest, sacks that occured last year came against the Chargers.

Mendenhall cut block a blitzing ILB but ended up rolling into Hartwig, taking his legs out from behind him. The tackle then had a free lane to Ben.

[Devilsdancefloor]

i really think more screens to Memo or Mendy, running no huddle & moving the pocket would help out a lot. i hope the new Oline coach works wonders for our oline, plus i think the fact that wallace being the #2 will help on those quick slants and wr screens. But i do think that some times the blocks get confused who to pick up and what not so the fewer the better at times.